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Dethroning Moment / Persona

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The following moments in the Persona series will make you wonder if the folks at Atlus were under the influence of their Shadows when they implemented these.

Keep in mind:

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  • One moment per game to a troper, if multiple entries are signed to the same troper the more recent one will be cut.
  • Moments only, no "just everything he said," or "The entire game" entries.
  • No contesting entries. This is subjective, the entry is their opinion.
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  • No natter. As above, anything contesting an entry will be cut, and anything that's just contributing more can be made its own entry.
  • Explain why it's a Dethroning Moment of Suck.
  • Please make sure the moment is fictional and is neither an event that occurred in real life nor something gameplay-related. We have a perfectly good Scrappy Mechanic page for the latter.
  • No ALLCAPS, no bold, and no italics unless it's the title of a work. We are not yelling the DMoSs out loud.

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    Persona 3 
  • Demonsead: Near the end of The Answer, a Playable Epilogue included in Persona 3 FES, after finally getting through the hell that was The Abyss of Time, each member of SEES (except Metis) is given a key that would allow them to either leave the dorm (which would make the Abyss disappear) or use the door to the Main Character's dorm room (which is impossible to open normally for some reason) to travel back in time to the date of their final battle against the Nyx Avatar. Everyone is in agreement to leave... except Yukari, who wanted to use the keys to save the Main Character's life. This leads to a disagreement about whether it was right or not to undo his death, both for ethical reasons and for the possibility of fighting the Nyx Avatar again, and possibly losing. Yukari ignores all of this, says Junpei is just afraid to die, calls Aigis out on not saying goodbye with the rest of SEES to the Protagonist after he died, says everyone else only cares about themselves, and single-handedly causes SEES to fight for the keys with the winner having them all. All of this unnecessary drama could have been avoided if she just accepted the past and the action of the Main Character like everyone else and just left the dorm, goddammit Yukari.
    • Hoki: For me, it was not Yukari's decision to fight for the keys to go back in time and save the Main Character's life that was the moment of suck (her grief was partly understandable). It was the fact that the supposed smartest person in the group backed her up for no apparent reason (other than probably having an even playing field) knowing full well of the possible implications of going back in time. So much for being an honor student.
    • DemonGodOfChaos2: For me, it was earlier at the Love Hotel where the main protagonist is under the influence of a spell from the shadow, as is everyone else. After everyone snaps out of it, Yukari slaps the protagonist. It's bad enough already, but just before regrouping instead of apologizing for the misunderstanding, she says, and I quote. "If you ever say anything about this, I will never speak to you again." If it's one moment that cemented Yukari's scrappy status before The Answer, it's this one.
    • Animeking 1108: What I found to be annoying was how Easily Forgiven Yukari was for her actions in The Answer. She was acting spiteful towards Aigis because she wanted to be the Wild Card, acted completely disrespectful towards Junpei and Akihiko's deceased loved ones, and wanted to risk the End of the World as We Know It just to see her dead boyfriend again. Despite all that, everyone is quick to forgive her for how she acted. This is especially angering since Yukari was my favorite female in The Journey.
    • Catmuto: My DMoS also has to do with Yukari. She dropped so far off my list, I banned her from entering my party for the rest of the playthrough. It's the scene during summer vacation when Mitsuru admits that her family's company had to do with releasing the Shadows. During this scene, everyone voices their shock and Yukari yells at Mitsuru, before dramatically storming off. That part was bad enough for me, but then the player has to follow her and listen to Yukari complaining about how this affects her and why she is angry. It was such blatant selfishness on her part, I felt like reaching through the screen and slapping her. There were other SEES members, who also had horrible things happening to them and were dealing with the news they had just received, yet Yukari didn't care how anyone felt about this, she only cared about what Yukari felt. That was the worst moment in the game for me, it's a scene that is honestly keeping me from playing the game again.
    • Brohaha: 100% agree with above troper about when Yukari storms out on SEES after Mitsuru admits the truth; I literally could not bring myself into watching that scene again when playing Portable that I just skipped through all the dialogue and picked whatever when prompted for dialogue choices.
  • Gene 0129: The fact that Aigis never receives any true comeuppance for stalking the MC and trespassing into his territory made me relatively sick. Even worse is how Atlus expects us to see this as anything other than creepy and she immediately ends up a massive scrappy for me.

    Persona 4 
  • Dr Zulu 2010: While I still consider Persona 4 to be my favorite RPG ever, there is one scene who really ticks me off. And that scene would be the buildup to Nanako's kidnapping. Long story short, Dojima sends your MC to the police compound for interrogation because he thinks you're suspicious. Ok, nothing bad there. But this is where those two grab the Idiot Ball and never let it go. First, one of the answers that you can tell him is that you can enter the TV. Dojima, of course, doesn't believe you. Now, it's not like there is a TV where you can stick your hand in and prove him that you're right- oh wait, there is. In Dojima's case, it's even worse. Now, there is a murderer in Inaba and he has sent threat letters to you and your family. What is your course of action? Why, leave your daughter alone, at home, thereby increasing her chance to get kidnapped, of course! Not only that shows how Dojima is useless, but also how he is a terrible parent. Seriously, he is almost The Scrappy for me if it weren't for his character development.
    • Calamity 2007: Agreed on the part that Dojima doesn't believe you. Made even more frustrating is that, if prior to this, you have been working on his Social Link, where a good majority of his character development takes place, and actually makes it a little more understandable his rash reasoning that led to Nanako being kidnapped. It would have been nice to see a potential change to that scene, that if you maxed out his Social Link, he would at least believe you a little, but due to the events that happen afterwards, never really gets the chance to talk to you about them except for maybe the ending. But other than that, it's just a single misstep on an otherwise great game.
  • CalamityRaven26: Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Persona 4. Hell, Persona 4 Golden is in my top five games of all time! But I seriously need to call bullshit out even with the best of the best, especially in regards to my personal Dethroning Moment of Suck with this game, where the Investigation Team attempts to kill Namatame and how you have to talk them out of it. I get that the team is irrational, especially after Nanako died, but seriously, they acted like complete idiots during that scene. Not only was it more obvious that something was off in regards to the situation than it was during the Mitsuo scene, but I wanted to punch Yosuke for thinking murdering somebody when we haven't even heard his side of the story yet. I get that people were angry over Nanako's death, but I was so irritated with this irrationality, as it's completely an Out-of-Character Moment for the team. But what really ruins this scene for me is the gameplay implications: in an Egregious case of Guide Dang It!, you have to choose the exact response chain in order to avoid the second-worst ending. I understand that this game's message is all about the truth, but why make it possible to get a bad ending when incorrectly guessing the killer the next day? Not only does it feel completely stupid on both the characters and developers' parts to make ONE innocent mistake automatically lead to the Bad End, but it feels downright patronizing, given that the Investigation Team was completely under the control of the Idiot Ball and how much of an insulting Guide Dang It! it is. Persona 4 is a damn-near perfect game, but it's only near perfect because this one, shitty moment exists.
  • Luca Earlgrey: The hot springs scene. So Yu and his male companions walk into the hot springs for a relaxing soak, sincerely believing that the spring is empty and is now on males-only hours, only to accidentally walk in on their female friends still splashing around. Chie and company immediately strike back at the guys, interpreting it as an act of perversion. After the guys flee, the girls then realize that they had stayed too long and were bathing well past their timeslot into the men's timeslot... then scoff it off and continue to bathe anyway. Easily the worst and dumbest scene in the entire game, and a sterling example of Double Standard: Abuse, Female on Male, and I was so pissed off that the next day, I went into the TV and committed the Shadow equivalent of Suicide by Cop.
    • Ecclytennysmithylove: I agree. To drive the DMOS further, let's compare the Persona 4 hot spring episode with a similar hot spring episode of Persona 3, in which the P3 boys stayed in the spring past their timeslot into the women's timeslot. In that episode, the P3 boys receiving Double Standard: Abuse, Female on Male from the P3 girls (that is, if you fail the stealth-action minigame) actually works because of Ryoji and Junpei's dumb idea for the P3 boys to stay in the spring passed the allotted time for men, and therefore the P3 boys got punished for their actions. In the Persona 4 hot spring episode, however, it's gender-reversed and since no reasonable adults (i.e. Yukiko's parents because they're the owners of, y'know, the Amagi Hot Spring Inn) informed the P4 girls that their time in the spring is up, there is no reason as to why the P4 boys deserved abuse from the P4 girls.
    • jake38: I have to admit, I love Persona 4 and consider it one of my favorite JRPG'S, but I found the entire Amagi Inn scene to be the worst scene in the entire game, as it just made the whole group look like a bunch of assholes.
  • Animeking 1108: The last few hours were really when the plot of Persona 4 started to get stupid, but I think one thing that infuriated me was Nanako's death and resurrection. First, let's talk about how it triggers the events leading to either the good or bad ending. The game was basically using the death of a child to emotionally manipulate the player into picking the bad ending. If you decide to spare Namatame, Nanako comes back to life. First, it negated a potential moment of character development for the heroes, showing that they're not perfect enough to save the day every time. Second, it's a huge slap in the face to people who actually had to bury their children or siblings by having the situation resolved with a Reset Button. Third, it completely goes against the moral of Naoki and Yosuke's Social Links, as well as the entirety of Persona 3, about coming to terms with the death of a loved one. Finally, there is no explanation behind this aside from The Power of Friendship. Persona 3 may have done something similar with Chidori, but that gets a pass for two reasons: 1. That scene was optional and wasn't integral to getting the Good Ending. 2. The Answer reveals that that scene wasn't canon anyway. I'd expect this kind of writing out of the kids' shows everyone here seems to like, not a fucking SMT game. I'll just let the Nostalgia Critic sum up my feelings on this scene.
  • Catmuto: Much as I enjoy Persona 4, a scene around mid-way through the game was so bad, it made me hate Chie. The scene in question has Chie presenting the human form of Teddy in brand-new, freshly bought clothes. The kicker is where Chie admits that she bought the clothes at Junes and telling the cashier to take the money for the clothes from Yosuke. note  And those clothes were apparently pretty damn expensive, since Yosuke laments that his goal of saving up enough to buy a motorcycle has basically been ruined. Aside from the fact that Chie uses Yosuke's money without his permission, he wasn't even there when they bought the clothes. And nobody flat out even calls her out on this. In fact, it's never even mentioned. It's mentioned that Yosuke paid for the clothes, but Chie is basically the Karma Houdini here. With the previously mentioned bathing scene above, this just really puts the unfair into The Unfair Sex.
  • immortalfrieza: The social links are one of my favorite parts of the Persona series, but some of them really grates my nerves at the end due to how backwards their resolutions are and how they throw all the development of the social link character out the window. For example, Yukiko's shadow and most of her social link are predominantly about how she despises being expected to stay in Inaba and take over the Amagi Inn and deciding she's going to get out as soon as she can. To make a long story short, the social link ends when Yukiko ultimately decides that she's just being an ungrateful brat and decides to take over the Amagi Inn after all. This is despite the fact that her ENTIRE character development is devoted to how much she hates the idea of having to run that Inn, learning to stand up for herself, and not be put into the boxes other people want her to, something she is completely correct about, Values Dissonance be damned.

     Persona 4 Arena Ultimax 
  • matteste: It seems to be near universally agreed that Ultimax was the absolute low point in the franchise writing wise, but perhaps the biggest moment of crap that stands out in the game to me was the reveal of the main villain, Hi-no-Kagutsuchi. I'm gonna get the elephant in the room out first, namely the fact of him practically being a poor man's Nyarlathotep, copied of one of the series most beloved villains instead of trying to be more original. Now perhaps that biggest issue with him however, his goals and motivations. His goal? Destroy the world. And his motivation? So he can be alone due to being an embodiment of loners. Not only does this come of as incredibly tame and just dumb, but he also has an issue that is not present with the other embodiment villains in the series that leads to all kinds of unpleasant implications. Namely that unlike the past ones, he represents a specific and defined group instead of an element of humanity as a whole. And with how he is portrayed, the group becomes portrayed in the same manner. And just to add insult to injury, he practically goes down without a fight just to make Stu Narukami look better.

     Persona 5 
  • Animeking 1108: Throughout most of Persona 5, I tolerated Morgana and at least considered him an improvement over Teddie. However, my goodwill for the character was nearly squandered when he ran away from the Phantom Thieves? Why? Because Ryuji kept calling him useless after Futaba took over as the Mission Control. Sure, that sounds understandable, but Morgana really shows off his Glass House when you remember that throughout most of the game, he kept berating Ryuji for every little mistake he made. This is only made worse when Ryuji is the only one that has to apologize to get him to come back, and despite that, Morgana still goes back to insulting Ryuji.
  • Supreme-X15: Makoto is my favorite character in the game, and the one I wanted to date the most on my first playthrough. Unfortunately, I wasn't Debonair enough to get passed Makoto's third Confidant scenario, so I had to try to max my Charm out before I got to the end of the game, which didn't happen, so I had little choice but choose another girl to date, and then to beat the game to get a New Game+, start the game again with my states as they were before, and max out my Charm like crazy before I started Makoto's Confidant again. Unfortunately, Makoto's Confidant did in fact turn out to be one of the weaker ones in the game, and that's because of Eiko Takao. Makoto is solely focused on her friendship with Eiko, leaving Makoto with little room development much on her own, and Eiko has a very, very bad case of Too Dumb to Live. Eiko has bad grades, presumably thanks to putting more time and energy into working in a salon in Shinjuku, but that's not important. What's important about this Confidant is that she has a supposedly handsome (actually really gaudy) host for a boyfriend named Tsukasa, who showers her with so much love & affection it's sickening. The warning signs that Tsukasa is an evil son of a bitch are scattered everywhere, and Eiko utterly fails to pick up on them. He calls her Princess to avoid remembering her name in case he gets mixed up, he isn't faithful to her as proven by texting an unwilling Makoto almost constantly and asking very personal questions, and asking Eiko for money to pay for a broken bottle of sake. Yeah, can't see what's wrong with that. We later learn that he plans to sell her into sex slavery, as he's done with previous vulnerable girls like her, and Makoto wants to save her friend from this crisis. Sadly, Eiko is a terrible friend, and an idiot on top of that. She falls for the obvious lie about the broken bottle and asks Makoto to give her some money to help pay for it, refuses to believe Makoto's warnings about Tsukasa, accuses Makoto of trying to steal the bastard from her when the former clearly has no interest, and still refuses to accept that Tsukasa is a scumbag, even after everything is revealed, all because Tsukasa treated her like she was special while her family treats her as The Un-Favourite. I'm sorry Makoto, but I just can't accept this. Not only do you choose a poor excuse for a friend, you also let her so called boyfriend get away with his crimes in the end. And you magically fix everything in the end with your idiot friend? I just wanted to get to know you more and romance you, not help some brainless twit who probably deserved her fate and doesn't deserve your sympathy. I can feel satisfied that I'm finally getting Makoto as my girlfriend for this playthrough, but it feels hollow now, and that's thanks to Eiko. I went through so much crap for this? Thank you Eiko, you lazy good-for-nothing dumbass, for ruining Makoto's Confidant and wasting my time on you.
  • VanillaLime: The scene that takes place after Shido's palace. The Phantom Thieves are emotional because they believe Ryuji, one of their teammates, has died saving them. All of a sudden, Ryuji reveals himself to be alive and well. How do the Phantom Thieves react? By beating him up and leaving him unconscious before going out to eat without him. I know this is a common comedy trope in Japan where a guy gets beaten up by girls, but was using it at this time really necessary? Ryuji has his moments where be can be a loud asshole that doesn't know when to shut his mouth, but this isn't one of them! At the very least the group could've given him a hug or some compliments before or after the beating starts! It gets even worse when you remember that Ryuji had to deal with an abusive father as well as a teacher breaking his leg in the past, both of which were never played for laughs. Overall this scene was incredibly mean spirited and made the Phantom Thieves look like a bunch of ungrateful jerkasses.
  • matteste: The confrontation with the traitor. Too no ones big surprise, the traitor was Goro. Yet the disappointment of the reveal pales in comparison to the actual confrontation. What you get instead of a satisfying conclusion to the whole traitor plotline you get a gibbering brat who goes on about his tragic past and nonsensical plot as if he was Fortune straight out of Hiimdaisy. All of this comes across as extremely shoehorned just in a desperate attempt to make him appear sympathetic. And to make matters worse, the Thieves actually buy it and treat him differently from the other villains simply cause he had been a party member. And this despite the fact that not only does he most likely have the highest direct body count of any of them, he was openly portrayed as outright enjoying doing all this dirty work. And yet is he not only given sympathy, but is even given an act of redemption on top of that. And just to make the thing even more pointless, he is pretty much forgotten by the plot after that point. All around, the traitor was just a mess, and the confrontation laid all that bare.

Example of: