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Dethroning Moment / Everybody Loves Raymond

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Raymond. Everybody loves you. But you make it hard to keep doing so with moments like these.

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  • Moments only, no "just everything he said", "The entire show", or "This entire season", entries.
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  • No natter. As above, anything contesting an entry will be cut, and anything that's just contributing more can be made its own entry.
  • Explain why it's a Dethroning Moment Of Suck.
  • No Real Life examples, including Reality Television and Executive Meddling. That is just asking for trouble.
  • No ALLCAPS, no bold, and no italics unless it's the title of a work. We are not yelling the DMoSs out loud.

  • Gravityman: The scene from the episode "Bad Mood Rising" where Debra shoves Ray into the bookshelf. Now, not everybody hated the scene, as shown by the laughter of the Studio Audience, but this is one of the most triumphant examples people point to when they think of Double Standard: Abuse, Female on Male and Jerk Sue.
  • TheOre-Sama: "Prodigal Son", where everyone reacts negatively to the fact Raymond doesn't go to Church. So do they accept that maybe some people just don't like Church, that he has every right not to go to Church for any reason he wants and accept a difference of opinion? No, of course not. Instead Debra, insufferable bully that she is, makes Raymond go. What flawless, impeccable logic does she employ? She asks Raymond why he doesn't go to Church, and says "God can hear you" when he doesn't give strong reasons. He doesn't need strong reasons, he has every right not to go. Then she goes on about herself having reasons, and that somehow is the nail in the coffin and Ray, against his will, goes to Church.
    • AntMan: You know what the worst part is? That's all totally realistic and exactly how it would happen in real life.
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    • DoctorSleep: I didn't like the fact that in that episode, Ray defended himself by saying that he does decent things in his day-to-day life and that should be enough of a validation that he's a fundamentally good person. Despite raising a fairly sound point, Debra accuses Ray of being a braggart, as if to say that being an obedient Christian is more important than actually showing kindness to you fellow human being. Remember that Debra wants Ray to go to church to set an example for their children and the whole message becomes even more screwed up.
  • The Dog Sage: "Let's Fix Robert", in which Marie decides gathers Robert's girlfriend, ex-girlfriend, and police partner and they spend the episode pretty much talking shit about Robert, who's forced to sit and take it with Marie claiming they're doing it to 'help' him. Then he goes over to Ray's house, and Debra jumps on him too.
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  • Damasca Ramza: "Jealous Robert" where, as the title suggests, Marie and Debra hook up Amy with Ray's friend to manipulate Robert into being jealous. When Ray tries to do the right thing and tell his brother what's going on, Debra hits him in the groin without remorse. Good thing even that doesn't stop him.
  • AntMan: "Party Dress". Ray, despite having spent the entire episode against the idea, decides to buy Allie an expensive dress for a party, and it all seems like a nice sweet happy ending. Upon arriving at the party, the other children tease Allie for dressing formally and Allie tells Ray that she hates him. To top it off, Debra, Alpha Bitch 101, sarcastically states that Ray is now "a successful parent". Even Full freakin' House has better endings for the daughters.
  • TT454: I'm going to have to say "The Nice Talk". This is an episode which starts so well, and features a very humorous and sweet conversation between Raymond and Amy's mother, Pat, which results in the two bonding. And then, the episode becomes absolutely despicable. One day afterwards, everyone finds out that the two talked, and for some reason this is some kind of crime. Robert is at his worst here, instantly showing an intense and cruel hatred for his younger brother just for having a conversation. Ray's mother, Marie, also turns on him, saying how this conversation was an attempt to replace her, even though it wasn't. Even Debra is for some reason against it, probably because he thinks he's cheating? Seriously, Debra?! And when Ray makes a truthful speech about how family members should respect each other no matter what, it fails for an incredibly stupid reason - apparently, Pat always has these conversations, so the one she had with Ray wasn't meant to be heartfelt. Thus, Ray is wrong again, according to the writers. And just when this miserable episode is about to end, Frank calls Ray a "dumbass" just to worsen the bad taste in the mouth. This episode sickened me - really, it did. It made me lose all remaining respect for Robert, who proved in the episode that he truly detests Raymond is not afraid to show it.
  • Gravidef: This troper has always hated the ending of "Counseling." The plot is relatively standard: Bernie and Linda, two friends of the Barones, note that they've been going to couples' therapy, so Debra insists that she and Ray go. Ray doesn't want to, but when they actually go to the therapist, puts on a "sensitive guy" act that wins her over. Debra gets annoyed, and the inevitable discussion with the whole family occurs at the end of the episode, with Ray claiming (perhaps rightly) that Debra is really upset because she wanted the therapist to blame him for all of their problems. This is relatively frustrating in and of itself, but the real kicker is the ending. Marie, Frank, and Robert persuade Ray and Debra to talk out their problems, which eventually leads to Ray blurting out that what he really wants is for Debra to be a mother, not a wife, to him. Everyone (save Marie) immediately realizes how creepy this is, and Ray, who's shown in later seasons to hate anything resembling work, begs Debra to schedule an appointment with the therapist immediately, so they can fix this problem. Hooray! The source of all of Ray's issues has finally been identified, and he and Debra can now begin to work on developing a healthier marriage...but then Debra doesn't want to fix it. She instead insists that Ray is "just lazy," rather than dealing with the problem that's caused her grief throughout her entire married life. It's absolutely maddening on several levels: Ray legitimately wants to solve the problem, and is willing to put in the effort, but Debra, who's made jokes and frustrated observations about Ray and Marie's relationship for years, suddenly decides that this is too weird to face, despite Ray asking for professional help. I get that exploring the cause of psychological problems doesn't make for great comedy, but raising Ray's problem only to dismiss it with a quick joke from a person who is shown in every other episode to want to solve it is...argh.
  • STFilmmaker "The Lone Barone" Now to be fair in this episode it seemed like it was Raymond's fault that Robert and Amy broke up. However it also showed that everyone was out for themselves when it came to Robert and Amy's relationship and even tear Ray up so badly, that he is pretty much whipped to apologize to Robert. However Robert pretty much gets an awesome moment and not only does he not blame Ray; he also tells everyone else off for even blaming him, as well as not caring whether or not he had his own reasons. Even though it is an awesome moment, as soon as he leaves, Marie still blames Ray. The ending didn't help when Debra pretty much did her share of It's All About Me talk, with her reasoning that she introduced them.
  • Business21: I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but "Lateness" takes the cake for me. The series does invoke Informed Wrongness from time to time as part of the joke, but Debra's behavior in this episode veers into blatant hypocrisy. Debra AGREED a deal with Ray to be in the car at a set time, and that he would leave without her if she wasn't. Whether she had a mishap with the curling iron is irrelevant...the deal was the deal, and it was her responsibility to get her ass in the car by 6:30. This part can be forgiven, but what pushes the episode into D Mo S territory for me is that the writing seemed to posit that Ray did a horrible thing. Robert, Marie, and even Frank all admonish Ray, and the episode ends with Ray sitting as a scared rabbit while fully implying that Debra will be holding this over his head for a long time. Never is it acknowledged that Debra broke her promise to Ray and ruined one of the most important nights of his life, or that Ray legitimately held up his part of the agreement while Debra didn't. The episode really gives you an insight to Debra's true feelings about marriage and marital commitments, invoking some Fridge Horror when you consider how lightly she takes promises she makes to her husband. All of this is not even to mention that Debra would have been portrayed as completely justified if the tables were turned, and that Ray would've been the dick for not holding up his end of the agreement.

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