| 1 | [[WMG: The Piss that was Promised]] |
| 2 | Euron is going to drown in Aeron's urine. |
| 3 | |
| 4 | This has been foreshadowed so much I'll be shocked if it doesn't happen. Why? |
| 5 | |
| 6 | Aeron has a nearly inhuman ability to urinate. The books say he could piss out a hearth fire. When he was imprisoned at Casterly Rock, the Lannisters would visit him in the dungeon just to watch him piss. |
| 7 | |
| 8 | Aeron hates Euron because he was molested by him as a child. |
| 9 | |
| 10 | Much is made of how Aeron has never drowned anyone to death, which makes him unique among priests of the Drowned God. |
| 11 | |
| 12 | The last time we've seen Aeron, he's tied to the bow of Euron's ship and drinking sea water. Drinking sea water makes your kidneys work extra hard to flush the salt from your system. |
| 13 | |
| 14 | Euron is the brand name for urine receptacles. |
| 15 | |
| 16 | Here's how I think it's going to go down. Euron will be taunting Aeron, maybe brings up the molestation. Aeron says something about how unclean it was when Euron put his mouth on him, convincing Euron to perform oral sex on him, at which time Aeron releases the seawater that has distended his bladder. This results in Euron drowning to death - the first and only time Aeron drowns a man and fails to bring him back to life. |
| 17 | |
| 18 | I believe that GRRM has been planning this since before the first book. Why? It's established early that Theon's siblings have names ending in -on. I believe that GRRM saw a urine receptacle with Euron printed on it and got the idea of naming a character that and having them drown in urine. I believe Euron was the first Greyjoy he named and he gave the other brothers similar names as misdirection. |
| 19 | |
| 20 | |
| 21 | [[WMG: Jon is the child of Benjen and Lyanna]] |
| 22 | |
| 23 | There is so much circumstantial evidence that points towards this. |
| 24 | * Jon is described as looking fully Stark, and that he "has none of his mother in him." This is because both his parents were Starks |
| 25 | * Benjen went to The Wall after Brandon died, when his place as the second oldest son would be in Winterfell ruling it while Eddard was away. He went there in shame because of the consequences of his incest. |
| 26 | * Benjen and Lyanna are shown as being very close in one of Bran's visions. |
| 27 | * Lyanna went to the Tourney at Harrenhall to speak wiith Rhaegar because she wanted the advice of someone who did not think incest was a taboo. Unfortunately, this backfired because of Rhaegar's knowledge off ancient prophecies. |
| 28 | * Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna because he knew a pure Stark baby would fulfill a prophecy about the coming Great Night. |
| 29 | * Benjen acts very paternal to Jon. |
| 30 | * Ned Stark was unusually understanding of Cersei's incest because he had experience of this in his own family. |
| 31 | * The result of this incest creates a very interesting situation for Westeros. There are three races in Westeros, the Andals, the First Men, and the Valyrians. There willl be three monarchs, one of each race, each conceived in sibling incest. I believe there is a prophecy about this that Rhaegar was aware of which colored his actions. |
| 32 | |
| 33 | [[WMG: House Ryswell's real name]] |
| 34 | |
| 35 | Ryswell is a combination of the phrase "rides well" in reference to their horsemanship. The Y was added to make them sound fancy. |
| 36 | |
| 37 | [[WMG: Timett One-Eye/ son of Timett will rule the Vale of Arryn]] |
| 38 | |
| 39 | Buried in Littlefinger's extremely long explanation of why Harry is the heir to the Vale is that one of the older sisters was carried off by Burned Men, the same tribe Timett is from. If Timett father of Timett was married to that woman, he could technically be the heir to the vale before Harry. |
| 40 | |
| 41 | Of course, getting the lords of the vale to accept this would not be easy. Still, if the vale wre somehow conquered by the mountain tribes, who've been mentioned as growing bolder and stronger several times, Timmett could both have a blood claim and be a powerful leader among the tribes, making him a good way to give the conquest of the Vale a veneer of legitimacy. |
| 42 | |
| 43 | It's also [[CrackPairing amusing to note]] that Timett is a skilled fighter with a serious burn injury on his face, giving him a superficial similarity to a younger Sandor Clegane, and might well recognize Sansa if he saw her. |
| 44 | |
| 45 | [[WMG: On Valyrian dragonhorns.]] |
| 46 | |
| 47 | The horns that the Valyrian dragonlords controlled weren't actually magic, they just trained their dragons to respond to signals from ordinary blowing horns. Their enemies thought that it wasn't possible for beings such as dragons to be controlled by mundane means and came up with the idea that the horns themselves were magical. The Valyrians themselves encouraged this idea since it gave them a sense of mystique and supernatural power. |
| 48 | |
| 49 | Dragonbinder, the only dragonhorn actually seen in the series thus far, is nothing more than a red herring created by the Valyrians to obfuscate the issue of dragon taming (the key to their power) and discourage anyone from trying to do so. It's also noteworthy that the Targaryens were able to use dragons for over two centuries after the Doom, and there's no mention of them using dragonhorns to control them. |
| 50 | |
| 51 | * An astute observation, but I think you have it backwards. They may have continued to have dragons, but they also built the Dragonpit to keep them in. Hasn't anyone ever wondered why? It was apparently not done in Valyria of old, and even if it wasn't known to begin with it must have become clear soon enough that it harmed them - my guess is that over time and generations, it ultimately killed them.\ |
| 52 | Dragons live for many human generations, we're told: were any of the tame dragons born and raised after the Doom? There was certainly at least one dragon - Silverwing - besides the three ridden by the Conqueror and his sisters that was tamed and ridden, but it's possible she/it and maybe others were brought from Valyria too. Perhaps hatchlings, too small to be ridden yet?\ |
| 53 | I don't suppose the horn has to be used every time you give the dragon a command: more likely it's used one to bind a dragon to your will forevermore. Since the horn is claimed with the blood of the person who wants to control the dragons, someone else who shares their blood will also be able to command them: any Targaryen would have been able to control the original Targaryen dragons, even without still having the horn, so there is something to that Blood of the Dragon business. Possibly it was necessary to keep that blood pure to do so, or maybe the Targaryens just weren't taking any chances, but I'll bet that's the reason for the incest tradition. Of course, the new dragons have never yet been bound by any horn, so ''Targaryen'' blood is likely to be irrelevant, though it's possible the three heads of the dragon will have to be related.\ |
| 54 | But the horns were all lost or left with the Doom, so when the Conqueror and his descendants bred new dragons in Westeros they were faced with the same problem as Dany - and solved it in the same way, to their eventual downfall. |
| 55 | |
| 56 | [[WMG: The Dance of the Dragons will begin anew...]] |
| 57 | |
| 58 | ...between Aegon VI and Daenerys Stormborn, the last scions of House Targaryen. After all, the Iron Throne only seats one. So lets take a look at the strengths and weaknesses on both sides. |
| 59 | |
| 60 | (Apologies for big blocks of text, contains SPOILERS for the books) |
| 61 | |
| 62 | '''The Right'''; by every precedent and custom Young Griff is the lawful heir of Aerys II, being the old king's trueborn grandson. While Daenerys is the Mad King's daughter by Queen Rhaella, House Targaryen practices agnatic succession which places all female beneficiaries behind behind the males. Thus Dany is, of all things, a ''usurper'' for claiming that which belongs solely to Aegon. Except there is no guarantee that Young Griff is Aegon VI, and that will play havoc when he tries to recruit followers in Westeros. Daenerys, by contrast, suffers from no such aspersions against her pedigree. |
| 63 | |
| 64 | '''The Might'''; Dany is overwhelmingly powerful in this respect. What with commanding the only living dragons in existence? Pity she can't actually command them. Truth be told, she's rather frightened of them at this point. So she has to fall back on her Unsullied, her freed slaves, and her inconsequentially small ''khalasar''. Knowing the attitudes and mores of the Westerosi, slaves and freed slaves will likely make the same difference to the knights and lords and smallfolk, and especially the Faith. Aegon is backed by the Golden Company; a combined arms legion of professional mercenaries ten thousand strong and the finest fighting force in the world exceeded only by the Unsullied. If Aegon can convince his kin, the Martells, of the truth of his identity than he can also can also count on Dornish support. Bear in mind that the Dornish are one of the few powers in Westeros still not ravaged by the War of the Five Kings. They're fresh. |
| 65 | |
| 66 | * That being said, it is worth noting that the Golden Company is fighting for land, not just gold, as many counted among its number are Westerosi exiles or descended from Weserosi exiles. Bad for Aegon in the middle term, as the knights and lords of Westeros will quickly realize they have the most to lose in the face of a victorious dragonking who will need to confiscate and redistribute vast lands and powerful titles to the satisfaction of his officers (I can easily see Connington becoming the new Lord of Storm's End and Lord Paramount of the Stormlands) and to the begrudging of the losers. |
| 67 | |
| 68 | '''The Sextereotype'''; ASOIAF takes place in a medieval fantasy world and just like the real one, there is a deep and uncompromising bias against female leadership. Witness the tribulations and mortification of Sansa, Cersei, Catelyn, Brienne, Arya, Margaery, and others based exclusively around their sex. Observe Samwell, who is viciously and mercilessly mocked for emasculating behavior. The only female character who does not suffer for her sexuality is Arianne. So while Daenerys might have hatched dragons, she is still going to have to overcome the unconscious prejudice of the thousands of war-mad, bloody-minded men who rule the realm in the name of the Iron Throne. It goes without saying that Aegon has all the bits and pieces necessary to be part of the boys' club, so this is a solid win for him. |
| 69 | |
| 70 | [[WMG:The Great houses all represent classic elements]] |
| 71 | So basiccally this theory is that in the age of heroes and the age of the Andals the great houses all had supernatural powers associated with classic elements and here they are |
| 72 | |
| 73 | Stark-Ice: Brandon the builder was able to create the wall which is hundreds of feet of Ice and snow they say he got help from Giants but the tallest giants in the series arent even 20 feet tall so it would make more sense if Brandon could control the ice |
| 74 | |
| 75 | Arryn-Wind: The Arryns have a great fortress in the sky and it is amazingly well defended but seems a bit impractical and annoying especially for the King of the Vale so my theory is that at one time the Arryns could fly and that is why they were able to have such an impractical seat |
| 76 | |
| 77 | Lannister-Earth: they control the largest gold mine in Westeros and their seat is Casterly ROCK, which looks and works like a medieval Mt.Cheyenne. |
| 78 | |
| 79 | Gardener-Wood: The Gardeners came before the Tyrells in ruling the Reach which if I remember correctly is full of good farmland so my theory is this was due to the Gardener presence |
| 80 | |
| 81 | Durrandon-Lightning: This is the house that preceded the Baratheons in ruling the STORM land from STORM'S end |
| 82 | |
| 83 | Martell-Fire: They live in the hottest region of Westeros and like spicy food |
| 84 | |
| 85 | Mudd-Water: This is the house that used to rule the riverlands possibly they used their control of water to help expand the rivers throughout their kingdom |
| 86 | |
| 87 | Greyjoy-Metal: They are pretty big on paying the IRON price |
| 88 | |
| 89 | Basically long before the start of the series the great houses had amazing abilities but they faded because most magic faded from Westeros the Targaryens, Tyrells, Tullys, and Baratheons don't have elements because they all gained their seats relatively recently |
| 90 | |
| 91 | * Both Martells and Greyjoys are also relatively new as Lords Paramount. Martells only became important after one of them married Princess Nymeria of the Rhoynar. Greyjoys are far from being the only descendants of the Grey King, and only became Lords Paramount after the Targaryen Conquest, same as Tullys. |
| 92 | |
| 93 | [[WMG:The double meanings of the song The Rains of Castamere]] |
| 94 | The Rains of Castamere is a song telling the story of a failed rebellion by house Reyne against the Lannisters. But if you analyse the song it looks like it is foretelling the rise and fall of the Lannisters and more specifically Cersei herself. |
| 95 | Lets take a look at it piece by piece; |
| 96 | |
| 97 | "And who are you, the proud lord said, that I must bow so low?": The Lannisters were the second most powerful house in Westeros and no longer wanted to bow to the most powerful the Baratheons. Cersei was the second most powerful person in Westeros (its queen) and no longer wanted to bow to the most powerful Robert the king. |
| 98 | |
| 99 | "Only a cat of a different coat, that's all the truth I know.": Cersei despite being a woman is still a noble and therefore sees not real difference between herself and the other nobles trying for the throne. |
| 100 | |
| 101 | "In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws,": the colors of the Lannisters is a golden lion on a red field and the colors of the Baratheons is a black stag on a golden field, that means that it does not matter what her name is or what colors she has to fly, she is and always will be a lion. |
| 102 | |
| 103 | "And mine are long and sharp, my lord, as long and sharp as yours.": She is very deadly and dangerous, just as much as any other noble in court. |
| 104 | |
| 105 | The rest of the song talks about the death of the Reynes and those parts have yet to happen to Cersei or the rest of the Lannisters but I bet at some point Cersei will be crying over the destruction of her house and family and no one will be a round to hear her. |
| 106 | |
| 107 | [[WMG: The dragons returning did not cause magic to grow in strength.]] |
| 108 | And the dragons disappearing did not cause magic to fade. Rather it is exactly the other way around: magic fading caused the dragons to grow weaker and sicklier (ultimately causing their demise in Westeros, if perhaps with some help from Maesters who just as many others had gotten which affected which the wrong way around), and magic growing in strength again allowed Daenerys' dragon eggs to be hatched (in the right circumstances). Dragons being a rather... ''dramatic'' indicator of the strength of magic, people have confused cause and effect. |
| 109 | |
| 110 | [[WMG: Joanna didn't die in childbirth--Tywin killed her]] |
| 111 | Tywin obviously has a problem with accepting Tyrion as his son, and he was already aware of Aerys' lust for Joanna and possibly jealous as well as pissed off. So when he found out that his younger son was born deformed, he took it as an evidence of Joanna's unfaithfulness and he either a) lost his mind in rage or b) actually cold-bloodedly decided that Joanna deserved death for betrayal. It seems all the more likely since we found out just before his death, Tywin was neither a man of such high principles nor the faithfully grieving widower as he wanted to seem. |
| 112 | ** Considering how much Tywin hates Tyrion, if he suspected he was illegitimate wouldn't he have disinherited him by now? |
| 113 | ** No, because Tywin doesn't have any way of proving this, and if he voiced his suspicions, well, first and foremost it would bring shame on the family, which Tywin dreads. Also, it might get people to start wondering whether Lord Tywin had anything to do with his wife's death. Not that I think he'd have a reason to fear formal punishment (especially not after Targaryens' dethronement), but such rumours would bring further shame on the family, and there's always the possibility that the rest of the Lannisters --particularly Jaime and Cersei-- might turn against him if they suspected he was responsible for Joanna's death. |
| 114 | ** Couldn't he have sent Tyrion off to the Citadel or something like that, as it would remove him from the chain of succession? I doubt Tywin would risk Casterly Rock passing to someone he knew wasn't of his line. |
| 115 | ** Well, Tyrion wasn't the intended heir anyway. It was years after Joanna's death that Jaime joined the Kingsguard, and Tywin seems to have never lost the hope that some day somehow Jaime will accept (or be manipulated into) forsaking his vows and inherit Casterly Rock. |
| 116 | |
| 117 | [[WMG: Macumba]] |
| 118 | Nothing old Nan has said is not true so I predict at the end of Song of Spring when the final epic battle is about to go down it will zoom out and it will turn out the whole world is really just happening inside the eye of a giant named Macumba, which actually perfectly explains why the sky is blue if you think about it. |
| 119 | * Summers are eye infections and the Others part of Mac's immune system, cooling it down. Made a change in genre to CosmicHorrorStory here... |
| 120 | |
| 121 | [[WMG: The Old Gods are the spirits of dead greenseers]] |
| 122 | This might be one of those "well, duh," things, but we know that wargs can live on in their animals if they're killed while warging, and we know that greenseers can warg into weirwoods. Therefore, the Old Gods are actually the spirits of dead greenseers who died while warging into the trees, and the old religion is actually ancestor-worship. |
| 123 | |
| 124 | [[WMG: Ramsay Bolton was sexually abused by Reek Classic.]] |
| 125 | It might be a factor in his mistreatment of Reek Mk. 2 via Theon, or it might not be so much, but given the old Reek's apparent depravity and their codependently close partnership in crime, it seems possible. |
| 126 | * In the books, Roose speculates, "Did Ramsay corrupt Reek, or did Reek corrupt Ramsay?" So he, at least, considers the possibility that some of the abuse may have gone the other way. |
| 127 | |
| 128 | [[WMG: The Boltons and the Redforts from the Vale are distantly related]] |
| 129 | |
| 130 | The Redforts could be an exiled cadet branch of the Boltons. Arguments for that: |
| 131 | * The Boltons of old were called the Red Kings, and their castle is Dreadfort. After the Starks vassalized them, they ceased to use red as their "official color" and switched to pink. A junior Bolton who refused to bend the knee to the Starks could escape to the Vale and build a castle named after both Dreadfort and the official color of the house. Hence Redfort. |
| 132 | * The Boltons and the Redforts were in particularly friendly relations during the events of the books; Roose Bolton's deceased son Domeric was sent to Redfort to train as a knight. The Boltons aren't exactly a bunch that can make friends, neither are they particular fans of knighthood; but having distant kin and having your son train from them is another thing. |
| 133 | * The Redforts are First Men rather than Andals, unlike their overlords the Arryns. Boltons are First Men through and through. |
| 134 | * The Redforts were strongly pro-Stark before the Red Wedding, during the time when the Boltons served the Starks. |
| 135 | * Lord Horton Redfort enjoys a vague, but frightening reputation as a "dangerous man", he's also the silent, non-overt guy among the Lords Declarant. Could it be the same kind of reputation Roose Bolton has? |
| 136 | |
| 137 | [[WMG: Theon's Revenge]] |
| 138 | When Theon will finally get his revenge on Ramsay, he will beat him up with a mace and yell: "Reek! Reek! It rhymes with BIG STICK!". |
| 139 | |
| 140 | [[WMG: Aegon VI Targaryen is exactly who he says he is, and ''that is not a good thing.'']] |
| 141 | * Ser Barristan has credited Jaehaerys II Targaryen as saying that that madness and greatness were two sides of the same coin. Every time a new Targaryen is born, he said, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land. We've had five books to get to know Daenerys, and she has proven herself to be great. |
| 142 | * By contrast, in the one book we've gotten the chance to know Aegon, he started losing at Cyvasse and flipped the table, then changed 15 years of planning by two of the smartest men in the world on a whim, all because Tyrion Lannister mocked him and wounded his pride. So he decides to invade Westeros with only 10,000 men. His endgame is "Gosh, I sure hope Daenerys and her dragons come to rescue me because I'm in way over my head." Two Targaryens: one Great, and one Mad. |
| 143 | * We've all played board games with that guy who flips the board when he's losing. Now imagine he comes from a family with a history of epic mental illness, has an army at his command, and his aspirations are total hegemonic dominion over an entire continent. In short, he's proven that he's not Rhaegar's son, he's ''Aerys II's grandson.'' Remember the Mad King Aerys? Who decided to burn all of King's Landing to the ground when Robert started winning the rebellion? That's the real life equivalent of flipping a game board over when you start losing, and that's the behavior Aegon has shown he's prone to. |
| 144 | * Amusingly, flipping the board like that is exactly what convinced Tyrion that Aegon is a Targaryen. |
| 145 | * If he actually is Aegon, then Elia had to be in on it. She would know the substitute baby isn't hers, and speak up if she didn't know what happened. If she's in on it, she knew it was the only way to save her son and she didn't have any better options. |
| 146 | * Putting Daenerys in exactly the same position as the members of Robert's Rebellion that she is so against. Just as Ned sided against the rightful ruler of Westeros because he's a lunatic, so will Daenerys against Aegon |
| 147 | |
| 148 | [[WMG: Stannis will win the Iron Throne, then Daenerys will invade with her dragons and kill him]] |
| 149 | * Considering Stannis is based on Richard III and Dany on Henry Tudor. Of course, Martin might not just go with the rules. |
| 150 | |
| 151 | [[WMG: Shireen is the Princess that was Promised]] |
| 152 | * That would be a twist. |
| 153 | |
| 154 | [[WMG: Shireen's marriage will end up being very important]] |
| 155 | * Stannis may die and someone will marry Shireen to give legitimacy to a succession. Or Stannis may make sure she'll marry someone to win him support. |
| 156 | * [[spoiler:Apparently not, as D & D spoiled it.]] |
| 157 | ** Not necessarily. [[spoiler: They only spoiled that she would eventually die, not when she would die or what would happen beforehand. Her marriage could be something else that had to be left out of the show]]. |
| 158 | |
| 159 | [[WMG: The world is round]] |
| 160 | I always wonder with fantasy worlds where the shape of the world isn't mentioned anywhere whether the author thought about it or just depicted a section of world that can basically be considered as flat regardless, at least if you don't worry about the technical details of navigation at sea. But I'm thinking maybe GRRM did think about it and has a round world which you can travel all the way around. |
| 161 | |
| 162 | We've never seen what's to the west of Westeros, apparently people don't sail very far that way for one reason or another. I'm never quite sure of distances but could it be possible that Qarth and the East of Essos are closer to Westeros than might be thought - and even if not closer by distance, all the people who would want to stop Dany returning to Westeros will be waiting for her to move West. Perhaps this is why "to go west, [she] must go east." Also food for thought is that the Qartheen are pale-skinned, as are the Westerosi, but not so much the rest of the peoples of Essos. |
| 163 | * Confirmed; in "Fire and Blood" it's out-and-out stated that the world is a sphere, and that Elissa Farman tried sailing west to find other continents, and it's implied she made it all the way around to Asshai. |
| 164 | |
| 165 | [[WMG: The Wall was not built by Brandon the Builder, nor any other man, but by the Others]] |
| 166 | It seems strange that there would be no other examples of such amazing feats of engineering from ancient Westerosi. Winterfell was also said to have been built by Bran the Builder, but given[[spoiler: it was destroyed pretty easily by Ironborn raiders and/or Ramsay Bolton,]] it seems to be much more fragile, and thus unlikely to have survived as long as the Wall has against normal wear and tear and accidents. Also, Winterfell was a rather normal, if large, castle. It wasn't on nearly the same scale as the Wall (not that it needed to be). Therefore, the claim that Bran the Builder built Winterfell can probably be dismissed. At least, he didn't build both the Wall and Winterfell, and maybe not either of them, if he ever even existed at all. The Wall is made of ice (and stone, apparently), and the Others are known to work in ice, at least for their equipment. Also, GRRM said that they could do things with ice that men couldn't even imagine. The Wall is also said to incorporate powerful magic, which the Others definitely seem to possess. Furthermore, it does not seem to be built to any human standards of design, except things which were likely added later. There are no stairs to the top on either side. The top is just a flat surface, there are no crenellations for defenders to hide behind on either side. The gates and portcullises are iron and were likely added by the Night's Watch. The only interior space are the bare, straight tunnels that pass through it, there are no places in the tunnels for people to defend them. There are no storehouses, murder-holes, etc... along the tunnel walls or ceiling. Its appearance is alien. |
| 167 | |
| 168 | My theory is that the Others raised the Wall when they retreated back to the uttermost North after they lost their war against Westeros long ago. They did it with their Other magic in a very short period of time, and can destroy it whenever they want just as quickly. The Wall acts as a boundary, but not with the purpose of keeping the Others out of Westeros. Rather it was meant to keep humans out of the Land of Always Winter. The Land Beyond the Wall could have been meant as a buffer zone, a staging area for future assaults on Westeros, or a land where the Others could "farm" humans and/or animals for wights (or several of these at once). Perhaps the Others meant to make a stand at the Wall, but as it kept getting warmer, they had to abandon it and retreat even further north. Eventually, with the Others vanished into the arctic lands, the humans took over the Wall. They may have added to it over time, or maybe not. This goes back to Sam's statement about how little the Westerosi actually know about their history. |
| 169 | |
| 170 | Problems with this theory include the fact that Melisandre's magic is more powerful at the Wall (this could simply be because the Wall is impregnated with magic and enhances all magic cast nearby). Also, wights cannot pass the Wall, which seems counter-intuitive as wights are the Others' soldiers. However, it may simply be a side-effect of the Wall's magic and not intended, or it could be intended to keep the wights from wandering off (Coldhands shows that the Others might not have complete control of the wights). If the Others could destroy the Wall at will, the fact that wights couldn't cross it wouldn't be a problem. They could build up their forces north of the Wall, and when they were ready, just break it and invade Westeros again. This could also be how Joramun got hold of a horn that could break the Wall: the Others made it and he just found it, or maybe they gave it to him. How did anyone know it could break the Wall, anyway (if indeed it even can)? The Wall is still there, so it definitely hasn't been used before successfully. |
| 171 | |
| 172 | [[WMG: Literally everything that has happened in the entire series as well as preceding it has all been planned and manipulated by the Great other in order to bring about the end of the world.]] |
| 173 | Literally everything, the war of the five kings, Robert's rebellion, the various Blackfyre rebellions. All of it a part of the Great other's long term plan to end the world by sowing chaos and death everywhere in westeros. |
| 174 | |
| 175 | The drowned god, R'hllor, The many faced god, all of them are just different faces the Great other uses to further it's goals and plans. |
| 176 | All the prophecies, such as the prince who was promised, the Stallion who mounts the world, even the Azor Ahai are all false. Fake lies to further motivate men into action only to create further chaos and ruin in the long term. |
| 177 | |
| 178 | Littlefinger and Varys are either witting or unwitting pawns or even outright servants. Both sowing chaos in order to leave westeros as unstable as possible so that once winter finally comes in force, there will be no one powerful enough to be able to resist the others and their army of wights. |
| 179 | |
| 180 | Whats more all the sheer death and destruction caused by the war of the five kings has been deliberate so the Great other now has a literal continent's worth of corpses just waiting to rise up as it's army. And with famine all but guaranteed, in large parts of Westeros, further death is even more likely. |
| 181 | |
| 182 | The wholesale annihilation of the starks and their corruption has also been deliberate and intended to turn them into servants. |
| 183 | |
| 184 | [[spoiler:Jon actually will die and be revived as the new Night's King. Making his title as "Lord Snow" hold extra meaning.]] |
| 185 | |
| 186 | In the end, all the various struggles, civil conflicts, and dispute over the iron throne will mean utterly nothing in the end. The truth of the long winters and who the others are will finally be revealed as will the meaning behind "All men must die." What that will come to mean is exactly what it says. All men literally must die. Everywhere and throughout the whole world. THAT is the ultimate goal of the Great other, to end all life through out the world in a cold, eternal winter. |
| 187 | |
| 188 | The other's will break out of the wall, winter will engulf all of westeros with only small holdouts managing to endure, like Dorne. The others will rampage across the land unopposed till almost all of Westeros save from particularly stubborn places manage to hold out, but still be faced with doom in the long term. |
| 189 | |
| 190 | Even Essos will be affected, only less so, with Dany's actions having been revealed to also be a part of this grand horrible plan. |
| 191 | |
| 192 | In the end, the ultimate massage of the series will be revealed to actually be that "power really is where ever men believe it resides". In other words, a genuine savor will come about but it won't be because of any prophecy, or any gods, or anything supernatural. But because the people believe in them whoever they are. |
| 193 | |
| 194 | it will also be revealed that the original Azor Ahai was actually just some random person who wasn't picked by any god or force or fate but was just someone who proved them self a true hero through there own actions. |
| 195 | |
| 196 | [[WMG: Jaime will eventually reveal his relationship with Cersei]] |
| 197 | * Feeling this is the only way he can regain some honor and because he is upset with his sister. |
| 198 | ** Kind of moot, as everyone already knows. |
| 199 | ** Jaime may reveal this to the High Septon, making it official. |
| 200 | |
| 201 | [[WMG: House Words of House Seaworth]] |
| 202 | * NeverTellMeTheOdds, after a famous smuggler litany |
| 203 | |
| 204 | [[WMG: Cersei will face the ultimate indignity- being remembered historically as an inept female ruler]] |
| 205 | Nobody will catch on to her plotting, but the sexist historians of Westeros will remember her as a typical woman unable to handle the pressures of ruling a nation. This will be the thing that pushes her over... oh, wait. Further over the edge. |
| 206 | |
| 207 | [[WMG: The Dragons Aren't Making [[TheMagicComesBack the Magic Come Back]]]] |
| 208 | Magic is making the dragons come back. Everyone in the series assumes that dragons strengthen magic, but maybe it's the other way around. Magical events were already happening before Dany's eggs hatched. The Others reappeared in Westeros, and Mirri Maz Duur cast multiple successful spells. |
| 209 | |
| 210 | This could explain the rapid decline in the Targaryen's dragons. As the magic faded, the dragons became weaker. Why else would a family who had successfully been breeding powerful dragons for centuries be unable to keep a hatchling alive for even a day? |
| 211 | |
| 212 | [[WMG: Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail will eventually become a single sword again, said sword will be given a new name- "Fire", and Jon Snow will wield it]] |
| 213 | Because the original sword was called "Ice" and why not complete the TitleDrop by turning the two into a sword called "Fire". Perhaps the new sword will even be the 2nd coming of Lightbringer, and if you subscribe to the R+L=J theory and the "Jon Snow is Azor Ahai/The Prince That Was Promised" theory, he will wield the new sword. This would mean the title of the series refers to both Jon Snow and the sword he will eventually wield. Plus it would deliciously ironic for Jon to inherit the reincarnation of the Stark's ancestral sword. |
| 214 | ** Or he may give it to his kinsman Rickon, who he feels has more right to it. |
| 215 | |
| 216 | [[WMG:The Florents will join the Ironborn]] |
| 217 | * Alekyne Florent may go to Euron in the hopes he can get Brightwater Keep back and may even hope to get Highgarden, which the Florents have often wanted control off. He may even convert to the Drowned God, considering how changeable the Florents are. |
| 218 | ** Or they may join "Aegon". I doubt Alekyne Florent will stay out of the game considering his current situation. |
| 219 | |
| 220 | [[WMG:Lord Bolton will be killed by Shaggydog]] |
| 221 | * When Rickon gets back to Winterfell, he may warg into his direwolf and avenge his brother. Anyway, Roose held Harrenhal so the curse may effect him... |
| 222 | |
| 223 | [[WMG:TWOW will see an attack on the Twins...]] |
| 224 | * By the Brotherhood, the Crannogmen, and the Blackfish. My thoughts are the Blackfish will find TBWB, they would after all be natural allies, with his niece leading them and mutual enemies. The Crannogmen are old enemies of the Freys and will hate them even more after the Freys helped murder their King. My thoughts are a sudden attack will be launched, during which Walder and many of his descendants will be killed. It would be great to have a confrontation between Blackfish and Black Walder. Stoneheart, like happened to her, will kill one of Walder's sons in front of him, then kill him. Then maybe they would attack Riverrun. This could work in Stannis' favor, as by the time he gets to the Twins they will be under the control of enemies to the Lannisters. |
| 225 | ** Also, this will enable Howland Reed to finally put in an appearance. Perhaps when he meets Stannis, [[spoiler:whose heir may have died by then]], he will confide in him that there is another possible heir to the Iron Throne... |
| 226 | ** It is still up for debate whether Catelyn's anger at the Freys will extend to her killing Roslin, who carries her brother's child. |
| 227 | |
| 228 | [[WMG:A bastard of Robert will be legitimized]] |
| 229 | * Most likely Edric Storm, as he is the only acknowledged bastard. If Stannis gets the Iron Throne, he may have Edric returned from Essos. Stannis may do this to Edric to prevent the Baratheon line dying out, saying Edric can succeed to the Iron Throne or Storm's End if he doesn't have any children [[spoiler:as Shireen will apparently die in TWOW, [[SarcasmMode thank you for spoiling that D & D]]]]. He may even make Edric Lord of Storm's End immediately, reviving House Baratheon of Storm's End. By the finale we will hear of Lord Edric Baratheon. |
| 230 | ** Or if Jon becomes King he may do so. |
| 231 | ** Given how few viable members of the royal family there are that are both alive and likely to reproduce, legitimizing a bastard might be a necessary evil to keep the royal line from getting weak and dying out. |
| 232 | |
| 233 | [[WMG:Garlan or Willas Tyrell will die...]] |
| 234 | ... at the hands of the Ironborn, as they attack Brightwater Keep (see above WMG on the Florents) or Highgarden. |
| 235 | |
| 236 | [[WMG:The Umbers are descended from giants]] |
| 237 | * Their sigil, large size, and closeness to the Wall. |
| 238 | |
| 239 | [[WMG:Davos will survive the series...]] |
| 240 | * ...and if Jon becomes King he will let Davos keep the Rainwood and be on the Small Council, as Hand or Master of Ships, seeing how loyal and efficient he is. |
| 241 | |
| 242 | [[WMG:Tommen and Margaery will die after the trial by combat...]] |
| 243 | * When Cleganstein wins Cersei will order him to execute Margaery, not wishing to pass up this chance. Tommen will try to save his wife and be killed as well. |
| 244 | |
| 245 | [[WMG:The Greatjon will imitate his sigil...]] |
| 246 | * During an attack on the Twins he will break free and kill Freys. |
| 247 | |
| 248 | [[WMG:When Jon and Dany meet...]] |
| 249 | ...they will react badly due to Dany's opinion on Ned. |
| 250 | |
| 251 | [[WMG:Jon Snow will marry...]] |
| 252 | * ...Daenerys. |
| 253 | * ...Arya. |
| 254 | * ...Asha. |
| 255 | * ...Arianne. |
| 256 | * ...Wyndafryd or Wylla Manderly. |
| 257 | * ...Sansa. |
| 258 | |
| 259 | [[WMG: Those Who Will Live and Those Who Will Die]] |
| 260 | Martin has notoriously stated that he's "gonna kill a lot of" characters in TWOW and ADOS, even that the number of POV characters is going to start (perhaps rapidly) decreasing as the series finishes. This story being what it has been so far, this isn't much of a surprise. Though, since it's apparently gonna be awhile before we find out who live and who dies, I'd like to start my guessing now. |
| 261 | * Life |
| 262 | ** Jon Snow: One thing he does know is how to cheat death. Multiple times. So after his second coming, and proving again and again what an unforeseeable badass he is, Jon will survive the series. And, despite death relinquishing him of his oaths, he still remains either at The Wall or north of it. I dunno, it always seemed to me that the last epilogue of the series would be from the POV of a man of the Night's Watch (like the first prologue). Who better than Jon? It also seems like it would be rather poetic for Jon to stay true to his vow and continue defending the realms of men beyond The Wall, even after everything he will go through (war, loss of friends, loss of love) and learn (his parentage) in the last two books. |
| 263 | ** Sansa Stark: Will get to finally return home, despite the fact that most of the family and friends she knew in the beginning are all dead now. She makes the best of her situation, though. And of her new skills in manipulation and deception. She's basically the one in charge at Winterfell in the end, since her little brother isn't quite up to the task. |
| 264 | ** Rickon Stark: He will become Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, publicly. However, his vicious temperament requires that his sister do most of the work. Stark supporters will say that when Rickon comes of age, he will be a force to be reckoned with. |
| 265 | ** Samwell Tarly: Succeeds in becoming both a maester and a ''man'' and lives out the rest of his days at The Wall. Though he will forever miss Gilly. |
| 266 | ** Davos Seaworth: His cause will die with Stannis, then he will only be contributing to the war against the Others. Once it's over, he will return home to his wife and two sons; his son at The Wall is toast, sadly. |
| 267 | ** Theon Greyjoy: Yes, despite all the shit he has and will continue to go through, GRRM will not let poor Theon die in peace. Unfortunately, he's going to become Lord of whatever's left of the Iron Islands when the series is done. With his sister's help, of course. |
| 268 | ** Asha Greyjoy: After her uncles have fallen and Stannis has (reluctantly) freed her, she will be instrumental in uniting the Ironborn against the Others. |
| 269 | ** Brienne of Tarth: Refuses to leave Sansa or any of the Starks when she finds them, and stays to defend them during the last great war. In the end, Sansa will release her of her oath, allowing Brienne to finally return home once the snows lift. |
| 270 | ** Sandor Clegane: Though certainly broken, he will survive Cleganebowl and be spared anymore violence. He may have one last encounter with one or both of the Stark girls before returning to the Quiet Isle to live out the winter. |
| 271 | ** Edmure Tully: He will be made Lord Paramount of the Riverlands in the end, becoming a good but ruthless lord like his father. His wife and child will be with him as well. |
| 272 | ** Willas Tyrell: He will take over as House Tyrell's lord and resident devious bastard, after his father and grandmother. |
| 273 | ** Loras Tyrell: He will survive his wounds and do what he can to defend the Tyrells and the Reach from the coming wars. His burn scars will make him something of a parallel to The Hound. |
| 274 | ** Arriane Martell: Seems like she'll survive, but not sure what will become of her. If there's still an Iron Throne in the end, I'm assuming she will become Queen. If Trystane dies, she might finally get her wish of becoming ruler of Dorne like she originally wanted. |
| 275 | ** Doran Martell: He will live to see House Lannister ruined and the Targaryens revived, but he will have lost a great deal in the process. His choices will weigh heavy on his mind, likely for the rest of his days. |
| 276 | ** Penny: After surviving Slaver's Bay and returning to Meereen with Dany's army, Tyrion will make sure she's brought to (relative) safety. |
| 277 | ** Gendry: Can't imagine he'd die, since he's basically House Baratheon's Jon Snow. I'd imagine Robert's other bastards that have been named (Mya, Edric, Bella) will get to live. Enough of them have died, I think. |
| 278 | ** Bronn: You think Littlefinger's the series' ultimate SocialClimber? Nope, it's Bronn. |
| 279 | * Death |
| 280 | ** Roose and Ramsay Bolton: They're gonna get it. Whether it is Stannis or The Others. And they will both scream. |
| 281 | ** House Frey: Walder will die of a stroke, and his House will crumble soon after that. While a few members may survive and vanish into obscurity, the family itself will be officially damned and exiled. |
| 282 | ** Barristan Selmy: He will die for his queen, either in Meereen or Westeros. I'm hoping Westeros. |
| 283 | ** Victarion Greyjoy: He will be spectacularly played by Euron, leading him and his crew to get roasted by Dany's dragons. |
| 284 | ** Aeron Greyjoy: Rebels against Euron, and dies for it. Along with his devoted followers. I'm thinking they get thrown into the sea. |
| 285 | ** Garlan Tyrell: Killed in the trial by combat, in defense of his sister. |
| 286 | ** Mace Tyrell: Murdered by Ser Robert Strong. |
| 287 | ** Margaery Tyrell: Murdered by Ser Robert Strong. |
| 288 | ** Olenna Tyrell: The Queen of Thorns won't survive the winter. Pneumonia. |
| 289 | ** King Tommen: Murdered by Ser Robert Strong. |
| 290 | ** Princess Myrcella: Murdered by Obara Sand. |
| 291 | ** Cersei Lannister: Choked to death by the valonqar, who I'm guessing is not one of her siblings. Best guess: Arya. |
| 292 | ** Ser Robert Strong: Cleganebowl will happen, kind of spur of the moment, and it will exceed expectations. Qyburn's monster will prevail over his much weaker, living brother. But Sandor will be saved when one of Dany's dragons burst into the scene and incinerate the undead knight. He might even be thrown from off the top of the Red Keep. |
| 293 | ** Qyburn: Killed by Varys when he tries to escape. |
| 294 | ** Jaime Lannister: Executed by Lady Stoneheart and The Brotherhood Without Banners. Though death may not be the end for him, see Lady Stoneheart below. |
| 295 | ** Areo Hotah: Will likely die defending the Martells against invaders; if the invaders are not Lannister/Tyrell men, then they will either be Euron's Ironborn or the White Walkers. |
| 296 | ** Euron Greyjoy: He will raise some serious hell before being defeated and killed near the end of TWOW or near the beginning of ADOS. Most likely by Daenerys. |
| 297 | ** Jon Connington: He will start to lose it shortly after Aegon's campaign in Westeros makes progress, and eventually die in vain for the boy's claim. I'm thinking he might wind up getting burned by a dragon. |
| 298 | ** Mance Rayder: If he somehow manages to survive his stay with the Boltons, I'm thinking he'll die at The Wall in the war against the Others. |
| 299 | ** Stannis Baratheon: While I don't think he'll be put out of his misery as quickly as he was on the show, it definitely seems like Stannis is doomed to fail, regardless of how awesome he may be. Let's hope he dies charging a horde of zombies and white walkers. |
| 300 | ** Selyse and Shireen Baratheon: Melisandre's probably gonna burn Shireen for some reason, and Selyse will likely hang herself out of guilt, like in the show. Otherwise, Patchface will avenge Shireen by killing Selyse. |
| 301 | ** Melisandre: While she may live, it would be rather poetic to see her freak out and die at the hands of an Other. |
| 302 | ** Lady Stoneheart: Barring suicide, the only way I could see her finally going out is if she gave her life to bring someone back from the dead, as was done with her. My top picks are either Jon or Jaime. |
| 303 | ** Littlefinger: No way after all the risky gambling and clever scheming and smug superiority does Baelish get what he wants. There are many ways he could die, but my personal favorite is him getting sold out by Sansa when they go to swear allegiance to Daenerys and Tyrion putting a crossbow bolt through his throat. He dies in front of the Iron Throne, reaching for Sansa as he chokes on his own blood. |
| 304 | ** Varys: Like LF, very unlikely that he lives (especially with his "I keep on paddling" line in ACOK). It's a longshot, but I'm thinking Bronn kills him on behalf of Tyrion and company. |
| 305 | ** Bloodraven: Seems he'll have to die to make way for Bran as the new Last Greenseer. |
| 306 | ** Bran Stark: In spite of all the buildup, poor, sweet, innocent Bran won't make it out of this series alive. And he probably won't get to be the big hero like he wanted to. That said, his spirit will likely live on in the trees, becoming an Old God of sorts. |
| 307 | ** Arya Stark: For someone so strongly associated with the phrase "All Men Must Die" and the general irrevocable tragedy that is infused into her arc, it seems like GRRM will break our hearts and kill the immensely damaged Arya. Though, it would be poetic if, when she dies, she lives on within Nymeria to rule the long winter as wolf queen with her massive pack. |
| 308 | ** The White Walkers: In the end, their army is broken by the dragons, who also left their frozen wasteland a burning wasteland instead. While the Others themselves are defeated, we don't know if same can be said for the power that made them. |
| 309 | ** Tyrion Lannister: GRRM will have his great creation go out in a final, tragic, yet outstanding blaze of glory. And on the back of a dragon. There will be tears. |
| 310 | ** Daenerys Targaryen: She will light the last fire and give her life to defeat the Others. When she dies, the world will seem a far darker place for those who survived. Naturally, Dany will become legendary and rightfully so. |
| 311 | *** I would be inclined to agree. As I said above, I think Edric may end up as Lord of Storm's End. |
| 312 | |
| 313 | [[WMG: Dany will offer to marry Jon Snow...]] |
| 314 | * ...and he'll turn her down. Finding out he's a Targ doesn't mean he'll decide to practice incest. |
| 315 | |
| 316 | [[WMG: Sansa Stark will become the Westeros equivalent to [[UsefulNotes/ElizabethI Queen Elizabeth I]]]] |
| 317 | * While most signs point to Dany becoming the eventual ruler of Westeros, Sansa has finally started to take an active role in the game and is starting to show signs of becoming an effective ruler in her own right. Her story has a lot of parallels with Queen Elizabeth's life: suffering as a disgraced outsider in a DecadentCourt, managing to survive through her quick wits and a facade of IncorruptiblePurePureness, inexplicably remaining a virgin despite being married which fits into the Virgin Queen motif, enjoying masques, mummers, and dances, and her appearance matches that of Queen Elizabeth as a young girl. |
| 318 | ** This is brilliant. Parts of it could also apply to Margaery. |
| 319 | |
| 320 | [[WMG: Lord Manderly will join Stannis and reveal to Hosteen Frey what was in the pies...]] |
| 321 | * Or Hosteen may die on the frozen lake, so his fat niece will be told the contents. |
| 322 | |
| 323 | [[WMG: By the time Stannis gets to Kings Landing, Aegon will have taken control]] |
| 324 | |
| 325 | [[WMG: The prologue to "The Winds of Winter" will be from Gilbert Farring or someone in Storm's End...]] |
| 326 | * ...as the Golden Company attacks the castle. |
| 327 | |
| 328 | [[WMG: Aegon is descended from Aerion]] |
| 329 | * Martin says Aerion may have had bastards in Lys. Tying into the Aegon is Illyrio's son theory, Illyrio's second wife may have been descended from one of these unions. |
| 330 | |
| 331 | [[WMG: Stannis will legitimize Lawrence Snow]] |
| 332 | * To ensure Hornwood support, as the title Lord of the Hornwood is currently being occupied by Ramsay. It would make an interesting foil to Jon Snow. |
| 333 | |
| 334 | [[WMG: Aurane Waters will join Aegon]] |
| 335 | * He might see an opportunity to get more then piracy can get him. |
| 336 | ** My feeling is that the Bastard of Driftmark is a chump for Victarion Greyjoy or Dany to roll over. Aegon and the [=GCs=] are fighting a land-war after all. |
| 337 | ** He'll probably just support whoever can get him the most wealth. However he probably won't work with the Ironborn, as they seem too untrustworthy. If Aegon seems to be winning, he may just sail over and offer terms. |
| 338 | |
| 339 | [[WMG: The Intro for "The Winds of Winter" will be by Ser Forley Prester...]] |
| 340 | * His troops will be attacked by the Brotherhood without Banners and Edmure freed. It may end with him being hanged by Stoneheart, similar to Merrett Frey's POV. |
| 341 | ** Alternatively he will be attacked by Nymeria's pack. |
| 342 | |
| 343 | [[WMG: The last POV in the series will be from...]] |
| 344 | * Bran, as he becomes a Greenseer. |
| 345 | * Brynden Rivers, as he dies, perhaps looking into the future. |
| 346 | ** I think Bran being the final POV will be a terrific way to wrap up the series, we can see the epilogue 100 years from the present day, know what happened to the world, what new government took effect, who married whom and had whose babies. |
| 347 | ** And of course BookEnds. |
| 348 | |
| 349 | [[WMG:Patchface is no fool.]] |
| 350 | Lord Steffon Baratheon wrote home that he’d found a fool. He wrote that he was clever and funny, but didn’t describe his facial tattoos. |
| 351 | |
| 352 | Then the shipwreck happened, and Patchface was found cast up on the shore, half dead and two-thirds mad, and everybody just assumed he was the fool in question. But what if he wasn’t? We’ve never seen any other Volantene fools; for all we know Patchface’s patches may be the marks of some kind of priest or prophet or secret assassin. |
| 353 | |
| 354 | The simple fact is that we have no way of knowing who or what Patchface was before the shipwreck. All we know is that he may be a seer, and he definitely creeps Melisandre the heck out. |
| 355 | |
| 356 | [[WMG: Coldhands is the last hero of legend.]] |
| 357 | He looks like a member of the Night's Watch because he founded the whole order. He can work with the children of the forest because he's had dealings with them before. He won the war against the Others, but was killed in the process. As a final insult, they raised him as a wight so he'd never be able to cross the Wall and return to the lands he'd saved. |
| 358 | * And the story of the last hero is told to Bran by Old Nan after he falls, has dreams of the crow and heart of winter, and wakes up and names Summer, and Bran and Summer meet Coldhands on their way north to the three-eyed crow. |
| 359 | |
| 360 | [[WMG: Ghiscari culture post-Dany will go in for a period of pyramid-smashing.]] |
| 361 | Given that the damn things may's well have had signs on them saying "rooms and room service available" in dragon scratches, it kind of makes you wonder how the tradition started, anyway. Instead of a proud, local display of culture, they could have actually been ways to house their Valyrian overlords in the first place, after they were all rebuilt after being razed to the ground in the wars with Valyria. |
| 362 | |
| 363 | Bit of a downer if you're proud of how independent you are... |
| 364 | ** I am sure someone will strum up the WorldsSmallestViolin or Lyre or Flute for these guys. |
| 365 | |
| 366 | [[WMG: A year in Westeros is longer than a year on our Earth.]] |
| 367 | Many characters seem to be too young to do many things in the books such as the Stark boys being 14/15 and yet being able to fight evenly with grown men. However if a year in Westeros is equal to about 1.4 years on earth they would be about 18 which is far more plausible for being able to physically match an adult in a sword fight. |
| 368 | Since this would make some elderly characters much older as well it's possible that the Andals and First Men just live longer than the humans on our Earth. |
| 369 | |
| 370 | [[WMG: The Ward at Rosby is...]] |
| 371 | * ...[[TokenGoodTeammate Olyvar Frey]]. As his mother was a Rosby, he may try to take Rosby and will oppose the Lannister regime due to their role in the Red Wedding. [[https://warsandpoliticsoficeandfire.wordpress.com/2016/02/19/heirs-in-the-shadows-the-ward-at-rosby/ This]] article explains the theory. |
| 372 | |
| 373 | [[WMG: Oberyn Martell lost his virginity to Obara Sand's mother.]] |
| 374 | Obara Sand is his eldest daughter, born when he was 13-14(in other words, having just become a teenager), and her mother was a whore. It stands to reason that Lewyn Martell reasoned [[ProfessionalSexEd it was time for Oberyn to wet his wick]], and bought a night for his son. [[TheCasanova Given he didn't need whores for the other seven daughters]], Obara's mother must've been great at her job. |
| 375 | * Lewyn Martell was Doran, Oberyn, and Elia's uncle, not their father. |
| 376 | |
| 377 | [[WMG: Ramsay will suffer the same fate as his TV version]] |
| 378 | Only this time, his death will be even more pathetic, as just before his hounds begin to chow down on their master, he will beg and cry for mercy. |
| 379 | |
| 380 | [[WMG: Jeyne Poole will marry Jon Snow, creating a new great house:House Snow]] |
| 381 | As it is given that Jon Snow will return, I am convinced that Jeyne Poole will fall in love with him. Think about it. |
| 382 | Jeyne is a scared little girl who has been taken from her best friend, trained to be a whore against her will, mistreated, abused endlessly by Ramsay in a false marriage, and has to pretend to be someone else, someone she made fun of. She believes that Jon will protect, only to learn that he is dead when she reaches the wall. So, on the verge of an emotional breakdown, she stays with his dead body, knowing she is doomed to spend the rest of her life with a monster, and cannot do a thing to stop it. |
| 383 | And then Jon Snow returns. Like, right in front of her. Jeyne should get a chapter for this. She is on the verge of giving up when she is given a knight, a hero to protect her. She will just fall in love with him on the stop. |
| 384 | Jon Snow will reveal that Jeyne isn't Arya, but would feel compelled to protect her, and keep her safe, seeing it as his duty once he learns of her predicament, and both grew up at Winterfell together, though not closely. Some people would see her as a whore, and want to get rid of her, (*cough* Queen's Men *cough*) but we all know Jon wouldn't be having any of that. |
| 385 | Over the course of the last two books, we could see these two grow closer together against all the hardship and perils they will face. Jon would marry her out of a sense of duty and pity for her, but would come to love her as time goes on. Not as much as Ygritte, of course, but he would love her as his wife. Their marriage would result in the creation of House Snow, a minor house at first as Jon would see himself as nothing more then a steward, waiting for Sansa or Rickon to return if he doesn't learn of Robb's will. |
| 386 | However, once R+L=J is confirmed, he would have to push his claim, and House Snow becomes the new ruling dynasty in Westoros. |
| 387 | I have had this little idea of mine for a while, and have even predicted what the words for House Snow would be: Kissed By Fire. |
| 388 | |
| 389 | Sorry Theon. That's just how it's going to be. Have fun dying alone. |
| 390 | |
| 391 | [[WMG: Tywin Lannister has bastards of his own, and we may have met them.]] |
| 392 | Despite trying to be a FamilyValuesVillain, [[spoiler:his death]] reveals [[{{Hypocrite}} he partook in whores]] like Tyrion. Wouldn't be surprising he has some little Hills out there. Sure, there's Moon Tea, but some of the prostitutes or others trysts may have left before he caught on, which doesn't really matter since they wouldn't have proof he's the father of their children. These bastards would most likely be younger than Tyrion, since [[EvenEvilHasLovedOnes given his affection for Joanna]] I doubt he'd cheat on her. |
| 393 | |
| 394 | It's possible we may know of some of these bastards. Donnel Hill is a steward of the Night's Watch and claims to be a bastard of House Lannister and has golden hair-maybe his mom kept in mind who his dad was and may have even had plans to use this against Tywin. Hell, she might have even tried and the (as of yet unknown) reason he's at the wall is because Tywin threatened him to be out of way to protect his image or he'd find a LoopholeAbuse with [[OffingTheOffspring kinslaying]]. He doesn't specify which Lannister fathered him to protect himself, just that it was one. |
| 395 | |
| 396 | Marei is another possible bastard of Tywin. She's a whore who was born and lives in King's Landing, and was born in 280 AC or earlier. This would've been while Tywin was Aerys' Hand and thus available. She's described as being green-eyed and white-gold hair, similar to Cersei. Granted the "white" in white-gold hair suggests she may be Aerys' bastard(assuming she was conceived before he could only be aroused by fire), but appearance-wise she seems more Lannister. Tyrion has noticed her but never went through sleeping with her, which if she's his bastard half-sister it's a bit of near SurpriseIncest similar to when Bella tried to ring Gendry's bells despite both being Robert's bastards. |
| 397 | |
| 398 | [[WMG: Bran will become the Night's King]] |
| 399 | Based on Jojen's comments on Bran being the only defeat the White Walkers and him learning to control his powers (which let's him control other creatures), that Bran much like Bolvar Fordragon of ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' will become the leader of the undead and seek to have them contained. |
| 400 | |
| 401 | [[WMG: Benjen Stark joined the Night's Watch as a form of atonement]] |
| 402 | He's stated to have joined the Night's Watch shortly after the end of Robert's Rebellion, which is apparently a custom of the Starks for younger sons. The real reason behind it is that he had an hand in Lyanna and Rhaegar's running off, he felt guilty about how it led to the war and her death and decided he would atone her death by going away from Winterfell. |
| 403 | |
| 404 | [[WMG: Benjen Stark knows about Jon's parentage]] |
| 405 | Assuming R+L=J is true, he very probably would know. After Robert's Rebellion, Ned comes back to Winterfell with Lyanna's remains and child he pass off as his bastard, but Benjen easily sees through it. Ned could have told him, but if he didn't Benjen wouldn't have bought for a minute the story of his brother bringing a child out of nowhere and simultaneously their sister mysteriously dying in Dorne. This could be supported by the following hints: |
| 406 | ** He was Lyanna's closest brother, since Brandon and Ned were fostered away and he was the one who knew Lyanna secretly trained with swords, so it's plausible he knew if she was in love with Rhaegar. Possibly he even helped her running off. |
| 407 | ** That there's something more he knows it's clear from his interactions with Jon. He seems to dote particularly on Jon in ''A Game Of Thrones'', and even calls him ''son'', and the reason is that he's the son of his late beloved sister whom he's probably still mourning as much as Ned is shown doing. |
| 408 | ** Knowing the secret could also have influenced his decision to go to Wall. He could have had trouble at coping with his sister's death (and the part he may have had in it) and the secret he found out and decided it was better for everyone if he went away. |
| 409 | |
| 410 | [[WMG: Tywin asked for the tunnels under the Hand's quarters himself.]] |
| 411 | * He was not surprised by finding intruders there, so it is safe to assume he knew about the secret path. The tunnel was ordered by a previous Hand to bring where's from Chataya's, but Chataya's is not that old. The last hand was Jon, who was almost impotent, the others before did not have time to commission secret passages. So that brings us to Tywin again. |
| 412 | |
| 413 | [[WMG: Craster is Maester Aemon's son.]] |
| 414 | Craster's age could fit into a man in his fifties or sixties. Sixty-five years before the start of the series, a thirty-something Aemon Targaryen went to the wall. Game of Thrones has shown that even the noblest men have their own faults, and Aemon wasn't judging the idea of Night's Watch men visiting the brothel at Mole's Town, coming to Jon Snow's defense when he slept with Ygritte. It's possible that Aemon had a brief tryst with a wildling, and the result was Craster. As such, Craster's offspring would have king's blood, which is why the Others were so interested in them. Obviously Aemon doesn't know Craster is his son because it was a one-time thing and the wildling didn't care for the father, simply stating it was a member of the Night's Watch. That, and if he knew you can bet Aemon would call out Craster for being a degenerate and try to deal with him. |
| 415 | |
| 416 | While the majority of Craster's ParentalIncest is him being a twisted ControlFreak, maybe the Targaryen's tendency to wed relatives played a part as well? This would make Gilly and her offspring Aemon's descendants, and much like Jon Snow(if R+L=J) he's unknowingly helping out with his own blood. Of course, it's just as possible Bloodraven is Craster's dad, though at that age it'd be harder than with Aemon. |
| 417 | |
| 418 | [[WMG: Tysha was sent to Lys]] |
| 419 | A place known for pillow houses. Where else would whores go? |
| 420 | |
| 421 | [[WMG: King's blood = Valyrian blood]] |
| 422 | The characters Melissandre has been interested getting the blood from have all been of Valyrian descent. House Baratheon was founded by (maybe) a Valyrian bastard, and Stannis' grandmother was a Targaryen. Jon gets Mance's baby out of the way, but Melissandre might not have been interested that child in the first place (or maybe tried to ensure that Gilly's baby was to stay, per the Craster is Aemon's son theory). |
| 423 | |
| 424 | [[WMG: There is a streak of madness running in the Tully line]] |
| 425 | Of the various Tullys and Tully-descendants we know, Lysa and Sweetrobin are both clearly mad, and Cat [[spoiler:goes mad just before her death]]. Of Cat's children, most seem to have some trouble with their mental health: most obviously with Arya's SanitySlippage and LossOfIdentity, and Rickon's aggression and FeralChild nature, but also Sansa's habit of forming false memories (more common in RealLife, but quite unusual in the realm of the narrative) and [[spoiler:developing SplitPersonality]], and also Bran's curious lack of reaction to some of the creepy shit that goes on in his storyline, and generally being slightly ObliviouslyEvil. Of Cat and Ned's children, Robb has the least evidence of madness, and even he often comes across like he's on the edge of a breakdown. Granted, most if not all of these examples can be attributed to trauma, but possibly it's a trait that lies dormant and requires both nature and nurture to bring it out. This also adds weight to the Tullys tendency to intermarry with other Westerosi houses, hence diluting the tendency and meaning it's not associated with them, [[{{Foil}} in contrast]] to the Targaryens, who fermented their madness by inbreeding. |
| 426 | * This could also be a nod to Catelyn and Lysa's ancestry, which traces back maternally to House Whent, who ruled Harrenhal. House Whent is also connected to Mad Danelle Lothston, an infamous redhead who practiced blood magic. (Rumours of Sansa's escape from King's Landing suggest that she turned into a wolf with bat wings- and bats are a symbol of both House Lothston and House Whent.) |
| 427 | |
| 428 | [[WMG: There is absolutely nothing dodgy about Bran's training]] |
| 429 | So what if Bloodraven's a withered almost-corpse talking about how [[TheSacredDarkness darkness will be mother's milk to Bran]] [[DarkIsNotEvil and make him strong]] while feeding him paste with something red in it? This is a series where the white-cloaked flowers of chivalry are largely (of the ones we see) either blindly loyal to unworthy kings or utter assholes (while the one among them infamous for his oathbreaking did so as an act of heroism) while the black-cloaked organisation of outcasts, bastards, and criminals are (largely) steadfast protectors of the realm, and the most powerful servant of a god named the Lord of Light burns people alive to power her spells. What someone looks like has no bearing on what kind of person they are. |
| 430 | |
| 431 | [[WMG: Joffrey Wasn't the Intended Target of The Purple Wedding]] |
| 432 | There is a lot of evidence pointing to a different target, but the biggest clue is that everyone assumed the wine was poisoned. In Westeros it is a common tradition for the newlyweds to share their wine goblet during the wedding feast, and the Purple Wedding shows that Joffrey and Margarey were in fact sharing a single goblet. Do you really think that Olenna would risk her granddaughter's life like that? And why involve Littlefinger, Dontos, and Sansa? Plus, with this marriage, the Tyrells are just a few steps away from pushing the Lannisters out of power. Why kill Joffrey now, and not after her gives Margaerey a son. All these facts just don't add up to a Tyrell conspiracy to kill Joffrey. The real target of the poison was non other than our favorite Imp, Tyrion. In the moments just before Joffrey dies, he eats some of Tyrion's pie. THAT is where the poison from Sansa's hairnet ended up. But the main question is who? Well the answer is Littlefinger. He has been trying to off Tyrion since book one and now that Tyrion's married to Sansa, his motivations become a lot more personal... |
| 433 | |
| 434 | [[WMG: Something even further north is threatening the Others.]] |
| 435 | Thereby subverting their supposed AlwaysChaoticEvil nature, considering that's not George R.R. Martin's style. North of the White Walkers there's a massive volcanic range, both making it way too hot/dangerous for them to live and pumping out obsidian. Every so often volcanic activity like this moves south, which is why the Others are trying to move south; like the Wildlings, they're running from something that threatens their life. Only problem is that humanity is in the way, and they have to make the parts of Westeros they plan to occupy [[HostileTerraforming more hospitable]]. |
| 436 | |
| 437 | [[WMG: Roose Bolton has a genetic ailment he compensated for.]] |
| 438 | Probably something blood-related. He's one of the most health-conscious characters, refraining from most drink, leeching "bad blood". He's only had one son from two marriages. It's possible he inherited some sort of genetic disease. This would go a good way to give some HiddenDepths to his [[TheSociopath psychopathy]] and general creepiness. While [[ItRunsInTheFamily it could be an inherited trait]], we don't know enough about his recent family history and a lot of Ramsay's madness is motivated by [[WellDoneSonGuy wanting to live up to his father's image]] [[BastardBastard and escape the stigma of bastardy]]. Plus the whole [[ObviouslyEvil "flaying people and living the Dreadfort"]] thing the Boltons isn't necessary just them being psychopaths, more intimidation than anything. The cold demeanor and strong nerves come from a means of overcompensating for his sicklyness, and his sadism comes from a means to feel better about himself by bringing others down; particularly his rape of Ramsay's mother, which could be a means of enforcing the idea he's strong and not to be pushed over. That, and with the dark reputation his house already has [[ThenLetMeBeEvil trying to be compassionate would seem a waste of his time]]. |
| 439 | |
| 440 | In this respect, he's far more like Ramsay than he'd want to admit. Both are compensating for something that'd be seen as shameful and threaten their lot in life-Roose being his frailty, Ramsay his bastardy and [[ChildByRape how he came to be]]. Ramsay just takes it to [[StupidEvil self-destructive extremes]] because he has far more to cover up and may simply have more in-born psychotic tendencies. By contrast [[WhiteSheep Domeric Bolton]], [[EvenEvilHasLovedOnes despite how much value Roose puts on his life]] he lacks this shared trait and is genuinely confident of himself, and as such is a much better person for it. However it may be the case that he inherited his father's sickness. [[CainAndAbel Ramsay is accused of killing Domeric]], but [[StupidEvil he is terrible at subtlety]] and probably couldn't make it look like an illness. And it's not like it'd do him any good, since Roose accuses him anyway and would've [[OffingTheOffspring killed him right then and there]] [[EvenEvilHasStandards were it not for opposing kinslaying]] (and really, if Tywin is any indication he should've found [[LoopholeAbuse a loophole]] by now). Rather, Domeric genuinely died of a bad belly because he inherited his father's sickliness. Roose, already looking down upon his SerialKiller of a bastard and [[InferioritySuperiorityComplex hating his own illness]], cast the blame onto Ramsay rather than further acknowledge his personal weakness. [[MoralEventHorizon If it wasn't for the Red Wedding]], [[JerkassWoobie it'd almost make him pitiable]]. |
| 441 | |
| 442 | [[WMG: What if Daeron the Drunkard's really scary dreams had nothing to do with dragons, and plenty to do with the plans of a certain Crow?]] |
| 443 | The odd thing about Daeron is that most of the people around him didn't realise he had dragon dreams. His siblings seem to have known, but... most seem to have dismissed it. Mainly because he made it out to be useless. |
| 444 | |
| 445 | Yet, one member of the family could easily have known everything about young Daeron just as he was trying out his skills for the first time -- and, could outright have scared him off taking them any place useful. Bloodraven aka the Three-Eyed Crow may have deliberately or accidentally been behind some scary imagery. If deliberately, he might not have liked the idea of a young Targaryen Dreamer getting the inside track on what political shenanigans he was up to. If accidentally, high tier manipulation, murder and magic is grounds for NightmareFuel as it is, so... whoops? And, if you've got any sense, you'd spend a lot of time and money convincing the scary old Raven featuring in a lot of the crazy shit you Dream about that you're utterly useless, can't understand your own drink-addled dreams and couldn't scheme your way out of a paper bag if you tried. Particularly if you've had dreams that suggest he's murdering family for reasons you don't want him to know you know. Or, reasons you might even agree with, but still don't want him to know you do, just in case helping him gets you horribly worse-than-killed. Because, if he was willing to wait for and manipulate Bran to plug him into the tree network, what would Bloodraven have done to a promising young Dragon-Dreamer? In Technicolor? |
| 446 | |
| 447 | [[WMG: Jon will get a suit of dragonglass]] |
| 448 | As Jon saw in his vision of the black ice. |
| 449 | |
| 450 | [[WMG: Howland Reed will be a GoodCounterpart for Petyr Baelish]] |
| 451 | Like Littlefinger, Howland had been in love with a woman above his station: Lyanna Stark. The reason why Howland Reed fought beside Ned to rescue her was that he fell in love with her after she'd defended him at the tourney at Harrenhall. Unlike Petyr, however, Howland never resented her being engaged to another man or that she would never love him in the same way. He moved on after her death, married Jojen and Meera's mother, and generally lived a good life. For irony's sake, he may even use the expression, "A fish may love a bird, but where would they make a nest together?" which further points to the contrast between Howland's selfless and courtly love for Lyanna and Petyr's childish and selfish love for Catelyn. |
| 452 | |
| 453 | [[WMG: Aemon the Dragonknight really was Daeron II's father.]] |
| 454 | It'd be karmic to Aegon IV's constant and insulting adultery if his heir was the child of Aemon the Dragonknight instead. The usual argument for Daeron the Good's legitimacy is that Aemon and Naerys were too virtuous to have an affair, however given how awful their brother was [[HistoricalHeroUpgrade the historians would want to hide any dirt on the two]]. It'd also be a parallel to the current SuccessionCrisis of a FormerlyFit [[ReallyGetsAround manwhore king]] being cuckolded by a Kingsguard member. Since he had a dislike for his brother due to being the better man, and Daeron because he opposed his stupid policies and Dornish racism, it was a "boy who cried wolf" situation. This also means that the Blackfyres were RightForTheWrongReasons, [[spoiler:and even if Young Griff is a Blackfyre pretender he arguably has more of a right to the throne than Daenerys]]. |
| 455 | |
| 456 | [[WMG: Lysa was having an affair with Littlefinger. And Jon Arryn knows.]] |
| 457 | An expansion of the idea that Sweetrobin is Littlefinger's son. While the moon tea did screw with Lysa's womb, Jon Arryn was far from a champion of virility. Of his prior marriages he never managed to sire an heir. The other Arryn, his nephew Elbert, died at the beginning of Robert's Rebellion and his only living relative that's not some unknown cousin is his grand-nephew Harrold Hardyng, who's from his sister's line. Also, Sweetrobin is black-haired when he used to be blond, and asides from general sickness looks more "weedy" like Littlefinger. |
| 458 | |
| 459 | While "L+P=R" is a theory on its own, it seems likely that if this is the case Jon would know. He is the one who discovered the royal children weren't true Baratheons, "the seed is strong" and all. Why he tolerated it? [[HeirClubForMen He needed an heir]], and knowing he wasn't up for the task expected his wife to have an affair. He might have even had some sympathy for her given he could understand how Robert Baratheon felt being stuck with Cersei. However this was a dangerous game he was playing, since for this to work everyone needed to think Sweetrobin is an Arryn and that's what matters most of all. |
| 460 | |
| 461 | He managed to pull this off, with the cheating parties believing he would've opposed this while his infertility remains a secret with him. True, the two would kill him, but that's because he was threatening to expose the royal affair rather than their own. And while not carrying his blood, he treated Robert Arryn as his son because he's a NiceGuy who's proven to have parental affection to those who aren't his kids. |
| 462 | |
| 463 | Littlefinger was never informed of this because he does not want his influence on the kid and the future of House Arryn. Knowing Littlefinger, he may have already figured out Jon Arryn's plan and played dumb because it makes it easier to string Lysa along and/or he doesn't profit anyway by telling him or anyone else. Incidentally, this means that whether he knows [[LackOfEmpathy or not]] Petyr Baelish's poisoning of Sweetrobin is tantamount to kinslaying. Given how this is seen in Westeros, this might finally use up his KarmaHoudiniWarranty |
| 464 | |
| 465 | [[WMG: Pypar is a bastard of House Florent.]] |
| 466 | The large ears. Pyp is the only character outside of House Florent said to have large ears and they are described as omnipresent, as shown with Shireen Baratheon (daughter of Selyse Florent) and Edric Storm (son of Delena Florent. House Florent is the only house that is described as having large ears. |
| 467 | |
| 468 | [[WMG: Varys is descended from Aerion Brightflame.]] |
| 469 | Similar to the idea that he's a secret Blackfyre, though with a different ancestor. In Dunk and Egg Aerion Targaryen was sent off to Lys for being an embarrassment, and WordOfGod suggests he may have fathered bastards in Lys, and we know Varys comes from Lys. As per the Blackfyre theory, his interest in the Targaryens and his genitals being used for blood magic(usually someone of Valyrian blood is needed for it) suggests a relation. Varys could be a [[OlderThanTheyLook grandson]] or great-grandson of Aerion through one of his Lyseni bastards. If Young Griff is a Blackfyre pretender, his interest in the boy, asides from being a WellIntentionedExtremist and being close to Illyrio and maybe him, is because like the Blackfyres he's derived from a line of Targaryen bastards and can understand where they're coming from. |
| 470 | |
| 471 | [[WMG: The reason why the Mad King was named Aerys.]] |
| 472 | Aerys II's father Jaehaerys was obsessed with the idea of "The Prince That Was Promised" and wanted Aerys and Rhaella to get together because he believed it would come from their line. The first King Aerys, Jaehaerys' grand-uncle, was a bookish fellow who discovered the prophecy of the Prince That Was Promised. If he came up with this idea before Aerys was born, he may have felt [[MeaningfulName it would be fitting]] if the one who's line brings this chosen one into the world is named after than man who discovered the prophecy of said chosen one. |
| 473 | |
| 474 | [[WMG: The Tragedy of Summerhall traumatized both Aerys and Rhaella, in different ways.]] |
| 475 | Given it was a fire that claimed his grandfather, uncle and many others along with [[NiceJobBreakingItHero it being said grandfather's fault]] (and may have been a plot by another), this is pretty obvious. While it would be a while until Aerys started to go mad, the seeds of madness were planted from this as the incident must have created his paranoia. Later events exacerbated this, but it started here. As for the pyromania, this could be a coping mechanism. While Sandor's experience with fire made him utterly terrified, the Mad King wanted to overcome his fear by using it liberally. [[FreudianExcuse If he can do what he want with the flames, they cannot hurt him]]. |
| 476 | |
| 477 | Rhaella isn't crazy since whatever kernel of insanity she had never grew compared to her brother-husband's deep envy and growing suspicions, but it did affect her. She gave birth to Rhaegar during the Tragedy, which must have led her to associate giving birth with the event. This trauma led to a number of her miscarriages or stillbirths, explaining why she suffered more in that regard than other Targaryen queens. And that only fed into Aerys' StartOfDarkness. The tragedy of their grandfather is that in his final act to preserve the Targaryen dynasty, he indirectly led to their downfall. Though with a ProphecyTwist he did fulfill his dream of dragons returning since if the tragedy didn't happen history would not have led to Daenerys being in Essos and hatching her dragons. |
| 478 | |
| 479 | [[WMG: Ned was the Stark who dishonored Ashara Dayne.]] |
| 480 | Assuming they did fall in love, otherwise Brandon is probably responsible. While it's possible Brandon was the Stark that seems a bit too much of a scumbag move that he'd sleep with his brother's girlfriend, especially since its implied he was his wingman. He's The Casanova, plus EveryoneHasStandards, and it's not like Ned expresses anything really negative about the man. It's possible that Ned, being human, ended up expressing his love with Ashara physically. Depending on the timing this was shortly before his brother's death and thus single, or shortly after being engaged to Catelyn but long before the two really knew each other. She got pregnant, and that child is Ned's actual bastard instead of Jon Snow. Given Robert's Rebellion was happening, the Daynes [[MySecretPregnancy covered up the pregnancy]] and either never informed Ned and he found out later, or he knew but was forced to keep away due to circumstances. |
| 481 | |
| 482 | Said child was adopted into another family to hide the family's shame, protect the Stark reputation and probably the babe's own safety. Catelyn bringing Ashara up was a BerserkButton for him because it reminds him he had to lose his first child, and still feels guilty about it alongside trying to cover for R+L=J. The babe may be a current character in disguise, Daenerys if you want to get really tinfoil or will appear as a new character. Said new character might be what's used in the books to help confirm Jon' parentage in-universe. |
| 483 | |
| 484 | [[WMG: Cersei will try to kill herself]] |
| 485 | As a last mad attempt to foil the prophecy. Backed up into a corner, she'll decide that, she doesn't want to give Tyrion the satisfaction of killing her. She'll probably try to drown herself: "when your tears have drowned you", and when she's pulled out of the cold water she's pale white: "the Valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat". It fits well with the theory that Jaime's the one to kill her. He loves her enough to pull her out of the water, and he has enough reasons to hate her to change his mind and kill her immediately afterwards. |
| 486 | One has to wonder why she doesn't just walk out into the sun to tan to foil the prophecy... |
| 487 | |
| 488 | [[WMG: Bonifer Hasty is Rhaegar’s father.]] |
| 489 | Bonifer Hasty and Rhaella Targaryen (Aerys’ wife) had a mutual attraction to each other, but the relationship never went anywhere because he was a landed knight and she was a princess. After Rhaella’s marriage to Aerys, Bonifer turned to the Faith of the Seven, possibly to atone for his relationship with Rhaella. Also, compared to Rhaella and Aerys’ children up to Viserys, Rhaegar is oddly healthy... |
| 490 | |
| 491 | [[WMG: Robert knew Cersei's children weren't his.]] |
| 492 | Even without research, [[ChocolateBaby it's pretty obvious]]. Cersei openly hates him, and Robert never wanted to marry her in the first place. His "children" don't look anything like him, and are the only Baratheons he knows to not have black hair. Why didn't he say anything? Tywin, that's why. If Robert accuses Cersei of infidelity and tries to disinherit her, or execute her for treason, Tywin will be ''royally'' pissed and start a war over this. The realm would be thrown into chaos, and it could very easily end in his death-the Reynes of Castamere make it clear you don't fuck with Tywin Lannister. Not wanting to deal with all this, he didn't speak up and hoped the problem would sort itself out. |
| 493 | |
| 494 | As stupid as Joffrey is, even he must have realized something is off. He accepted it as a possibility, maybe even realized it deep down, but being a WellDoneSonGuy who's very life is tied to being Robert's son, didn't want to think about it. Robert was still his father where it counts(even if he was a crappy dad), same with Tommen and Myrcella, so had no incentive to think of him as anything but. Jaime would be worth of ire in his eyes because he literally fucked up. Unfortunately for Robert and his legal children, the problem couldn't be swept under the rug and a war was inevitable. Another reason for Robert to whore and booze his problems away. |
| 495 | |
| 496 | ** Nope, that doesn't make sense. Robert clearly hates Cersei and Joffrey and would be happy to no longer have them around. And while Tywin may be strong Robert would still have the strength to defeat him, he'd have the Crownlands, the Stormlands, the North, Vale and Riverlands behind him, and Dorne already hates the Lannisters. |
| 497 | |
| 498 | [[WMG: All of the Lannister siblings will be the victim and/or perpetrator of [[SiblingMurder sibling murder]]]] |
| 499 | |
| 500 | Option 1: Jaime will turn out to be the valonqar, strangle Cersei, and be killed by Tyrion. |
| 501 | |
| 502 | The popular theory that Jaime is the valonqar will turn out to be correct, and Jaime's character arc will end with him killing Cersei- probably after gaining better control over his hand or getting the chain that Tyrion strangles Shae with. Tyrion will then kill him in revenge for his lying about Tysha, which he's considered doing in A Dance with Dragons, and only regret it afterward. |
| 503 | |
| 504 | Option 2: Tyrion will turn out to be the valonqar, strangle Cersei, and be killed by Jaime. |
| 505 | |
| 506 | If Tyrion is the valonqar, it will be an [[TheUntwist untwist]] that nobody, except Cersei, sees coming. Tyrion has also fantasized about not just killing Cersei, but specifically strangling her. This would be a classic self-fulfilling prophecy, because it was Cersei's fear of Tyrion that caused her to abuse him in the first place. It would be incredibly satisfying- but just as the satisfaction of Joffrey's death was undercut by Tyrion's trial, Cersei's will be undercut by Jaime killing Tyrion in revenge for the death of their father. |
| 507 | |
| 508 | Of course, all this assumes that Jaime doesn't get killed by Lady Stoneheart and Cersei doesn't get executed by The Faith. |
| 509 | |
| 510 | [[WMG: House Manderley upholds and defends guest right so hard and to the letter, more so even than the average Northern House, because they once actively needed to use it for their survival for a long period of time.]] |
| 511 | It's probably no surprise to any of us at this point that there's a discrepancy to the written histories as recorded by the Maesters. One of the telling gaps happens to House Manderley. The whole period where they got kicked out of the Reach until they finally got given the Wolf's Den is a little on the iffy side, but there's this glaring issue of about a 100-year question mark over the dates. Nobody is sure quite when it happened. Or, if the tale told about it is very factual, at all. |
| 512 | |
| 513 | One way to explain the date issues, at least? Is, perhaps, that they were stuck wandering around the Seven Kingdoms as a hot potato "hedge" House nobody much wanted to piss the political elite of the Reach off too much by harbouring for too generously long. It could have taken between two to ''four'' generations before House Stark finally took pity on them and granted them actual land to hold again. |
| 514 | |
| 515 | Without the social institution and intricate customs of guest right to use as a shield, they could have quite easily been murdered in their beds and/or otherwise had all their disposable wealth either extorted or stolen from them by others at several points (that wealth which they hadn't, say, stuck in the Iron Bank or in other safe places, that is); no doubt well before they ever managed to settle in the North, too. And, they probably still have many stories about all the close shaves, nasty bargains and the clever tactics they had to use to overcome them all. |
| 516 | |
| 517 | So, yeah: the biggest way to piss in House Manderley's porridge... beyond grotesquely killing their liege lords, forcing one of them into becoming a cannibal, killing one of their own House's direct line and abusing another relative in a naked land- and title-grab that got her horrifically dead? Undermine the whole (and vital) social institution of guest right ''on top'' of doing all of that. |
| 518 | ** This is practically canon. You don't think it's a coincidence that the Lordship of House Manderly comes with the title of "Defender of the Dispossessed" ? Their flightmigration might have been over a millenia ago, but the Maderlys remember. |
| 519 | |
| 520 | [[WMG: Ramsay's mother had Domeric Bolton killed.]] |
| 521 | While Ramsay Bolton does have the strongest motive to kill Domeric, [[StupidEvil he is notoriously unsubtle]] and would probably have killed him in a way that makes it obvious and not something that could be blamed on a bad belly. However if it wasn't just the higher child mortality of the setting, it could be someone else who had a bone to pick with Roose Bolton. Ramsay's mother had her husband hanged by Roose, was raped by him and almost had her child killed when she tried to confront her about it. [[RapeAndRevenge She'd want to get back at him]], however couldn't simply kill him. To really ruin him, she had Ramsay poison Domeric, his only heir [[EvenEvilHasLovedOnes and the only person Roose seems to care about]], [[HeirClubForMen forcing him to have to put up with Ramsay]] who'd inevitable be TheMillstone for him. While Ramsay's relationship with his mother isn't clear, it's suggested [[EvenBadMenLoveTheirMamas he might have some fondness for her]] given he was in denial of his ChildByRape status and assumes it was a romantic union. So if he was ordered to, he might have enough motive to be subtle about it for a change(or just directed Domeric to his mother). |
| 522 | |
| 523 | In addition, there's also the possibility that [[MamasBabyPapasMaybe Ramsay isn't actually Roose's son]] but the miller his mother was originally married to and was conceived a few days before Roose raped her. Ramsay doesn't look much like Roose, with the eyes being the supposed giveaway they're kin. That might just be a coincidence and they aren't related; Ramsay's mother is conning Roose and has ruined him in the long run. Ironically if Ramsay was conceived by the miller it means he wasn't a bastard but at the cost of not being a Bolton. |
| 524 | |
| 525 | [[WMG: Jeyne's storyline is a clue to Aegon VI's true identity... But it's a moot point anyway...]] |
| 526 | |
| 527 | Fake!Arya and Aegon's respective arcs in ADWD are remarkably similar. Both of them are being presented as members of great houses by political manipulators who are trying to use them to gain power. Thus, "Arya" being a fake makes it more likely that Aegon isn't the real deal. |
| 528 | |
| 529 | However, it's a crucial plot point that no one in the North is going to challenge Jeyne's identity. Anyone who could definitively prove that Jeyne isn't Arya is either dead, presumed dead, or M.I.A. And it wouldn't be politically expedient for any former Stark bannermen to speak up without proof. |
| 530 | |
| 531 | This is a clear parallel to Aegon's situation. The list of people who could prove he isn't who Varys, Illyrio, and Connington say he is very short. Aegon himself wouldn't know if he wasn't the genuine article: he's been groomed since he was an infant to think he was. Jon Connington might not even know the truth, and it would be out of character for him to support Aegon so passionately if he didn't firmly believe he was the son of Connington's "silver prince". Only Varys and Illyrio know for sure who the hell this kid is, and they're not telling anyone. |
| 532 | |
| 533 | If Team Aegon manages to amass enough political and military support to take the Iron Throne, those same supporters won't have any trouble securing his claim and silencing anyone who would dispute it. |
| 534 | |
| 535 | [[WMG: Melony Piper from "Fire and Blood" is a young Melisandre.]] |
| 536 | |
| 537 | Melony Piper, Rhaena Targaryen's firey, red-headed best friend, is stated to have died during the Battle Beneath the Gods Eye, but her name and her description (well, if she was able to disguise herself as a guy, presumably she was rather tall) fit well with what an un-UncannyValley-ified Melisandre might look like. There's nothing that says she couldn't have been kidnapped after the battle, sold as a slave, and then somehow made her way to Asshai. |
| 538 | |
| 539 | This also might bring some reason to Melisandre's obsession with waking the "stone dragons" of Dragonstone: if her best friend in her youth was a dragonrider and she knew Balerion, the Black Dread himself, at the very height of his power, and she saw dragons battle, why wouldn't she want to give that kind of strategic advantage to Stannis and his crew? Her methods for waking the stone dragons may be a tad [[WellIntentionedExtremist overkill]], but to her they may seem to be the only logical choice. |
| 540 | |
| 541 | [[WMG: Nettles, the "dragonseed" who bonded with Sheepstealer had no Valyrian heritage]] |
| 542 | The Valyrians were shepherds before taming dragons and forming an empire. Nettles used the methods used by the original, dragon-taming Valyrians. She gave the dragon sheep until it trusted her. |
| 543 | |
| 544 | [[WMG: Eddard Stark has a bastard child that isn't Jon.]] |
| 545 | |
| 546 | This is assuming that Jon really is Lyanna's son and not Ned's in the book continuity, which has not been confirmed. |
| 547 | |
| 548 | Ned says he had a bastard with a common woman named Wylla, and also that Jon "of his blood". It's possible that both of those statements are true, but the implication deliberately misleading. According to Edric Dayne (who was wetnursed by her) Wylla did have a child, and the Daynes believe it was Jon. While it's possible something happened to her baby and this really is Jon, it raises all sorts of logistical questions about how they pulled it off without the Daynes or other servants realizing something didn't add up. He would have had to have been there long enough before for the affair to be believable, and then shown up at the ''exact'' right time for nobody to notice an overlap or gap. The simpler solution is that there is simply another baby, who knows where. It would also explain a problem with the dire wolf scene in the first book; if Jon is a cousin instead of a sibling, why were there six dire wolf pups? |
| 549 | |
| 550 | [[WMG: Lysa (and by extension Robert Arryn) have lead poisoning.]] |
| 551 | |
| 552 | It’s mentioned that Lysa paints and powders her face. Lead was used in the making of face powder for centuries. Sweetrobin displays some of the symptoms of lead poisoning like developmental delays, learning difficulties, irritability, and seizures, while Lysa displays mood swings. Sweetrobin could have easily absorbed lead through the placenta while Lysa was pregnant with him or through breast milk. |
| 553 | |
| 554 | [[WMG: In the seventh novel, GRRM will revoke {{Narrator}} status from a character ''before'' they are killed.]] |
| 555 | |
| 556 | And that no-longer-narrator, who will nonetheless appear in most of the chapters of the novel, is... Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, the Unburnt, Mother of Dragons, the Stormborn: Daenerys Targaryen, First of her Name. |
| 557 | |
| 558 | Why? Because nothing else makes sense. |
| 559 | |
| 560 | First off: while we know GRRM only told David & Dan five things about how to end ''Series/GameOfThrones'', it is safe to assume that "Dany goes binky-bonkers" is one of them. Second, the book series has an absolute love of FirstPersonPeripheralNarrator -- whenever somebody is in a position of power, they are not a narrator, creating a sense of mystique around them (since we never truly know what they are thinking). Finally, we can assume that (unlike in the show) Dany will display some SanitySlippage in the sixth and seventh books before JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope. Such a thing would be ''way'' easier to convey through the eyes of other narrators... and, frankly, might prove impossible -- even for a writer of GRRM's caliber -- to convey through her own. |
| 561 | |
| 562 | So, for ease of making the plot work, Daenerys will stop being a narrator. |
| 563 | |
| 564 | [[WMG: Valyrian genes are very dominant]] |
| 565 | However, the white hair gene isn't. This would explain why the Baratheon genes are so dominant; the House was founded by a Targaryen bastard with brown hair. |
| 566 | |
| 567 | [[WMG: Cersei had Harlan Grandison murdered.]] |
| 568 | |
| 569 | Grandison was the Kingsguard who died so Jaime could take his place as Kingsguard. We know that Cersei wanted Jaime all to herself and she persuaded Jaime to join the Kingsguard to keep him from being betrothed to Lysa Tully, offering to make arrangements. We ''also'' know that Cersei has other people killed and make it appear natural; the [[spoiler:second High Septon]] comes to mind and Cersei had already committed murder at the age of 10 when she drowned her friend Melara in a well. So it would be easy for Cersei to have Grandison smothered or poisoned to make a spot for Jaime on the roster. |
| 570 | |
| 571 | [[WMG: Related to the above, Cersei murdered her own mother.]] |
| 572 | |
| 573 | Joanna Lannister (Cersei and Jaime's mother) was the one who caught Cersei and Jaime when they started sexually experimenting with each other, and separated them by putting them on different ends of Casterly Rock, warning them that if they did it again, she would be forced to tell their father; when Joanna died giving birth to Tyrion, Cersei and Jaime went right back to what they were doing. Cersei commits murder only three years later when she drowns Melara Hetherspoon. Plus, Cersei shows little feeling towards her mother in the present, with her only memory being of separating them. So it's likely that Cersei killed her mother shortly after Tyrion's birth because she got in the way of her and Jaime. Besides, it would be ironic that Tywin, who hated Tyrion because he allegedly killed Joanna by being born, had no reason to hate Tyrion because of one of his other children. |
| 574 | |
| 575 | [[WMG: Cersei will kill Tommen.]] |
| 576 | |
| 577 | I don't see Tommen meeting the same fate as in the show, but I do think they teased what might happen to him in ''The Winds of Winter''. Perhaps, with the threats of the High Septon and Aegon closing in, Cersei tries to flee to Casterly Rock and take Tommen with him with help from Ser Robert Strong. Tommen proves to be difficult and keeps protesting and crying, so Cersei gets some essence of nightshade to keep him quiet and sleeping on their journey to Casterly Rock but becomes so frustrated by Tommen's behavior that she gives him an overdose and accidentally poisons her own son, thus pushing her well and truly over the edge. |
| 578 | |
| 579 | [[WMG: The Pink Letter was a collaborative effort of four people]] |
| 580 | |
| 581 | Those being [[spoiler:Stannis]], [[spoiler:Mance]], [[spoiler:Theon]] and [[spoiler:Jeyne Poole]]. |
| 582 | Each one gave a contribution of their own to the letter and the reason for helping write it. |
| 583 | |
| 584 | [[spoiler:Stannis]] is the one behind the demand for Selyse, Shireen and Mel. He needed help and was willing to do anything to get it, and possibly also a commander who would lead his armies in his stead, since he couldn't very well do it himself, given that he is, for all intents and purposes, dead. |
| 585 | |
| 586 | [[spoiler:Mance]] is behind the demand for his sister-in-law and his child, and his reason for helping write it was to save his own life and that of his baby. |
| 587 | |
| 588 | [[spoiler:Theon]] knows several details about Ramsay's mindset and writing style, as well as Ramsay's desire to have Reek and his bride by his side, which was needed for the authenticity of the letter. He agreed to this in exchange for Stannis releasing his sister from captivity. |
| 589 | |
| 590 | [[spoiler:Jeyne Poole]] is also quite intimate with Ramsay's personality, and able to supply several details that [[spoiler:Theon]] couldn't. She made a deal with Stannis that she'll help and that he would absolve [[spoiler:Theon]] of his crimes and would let him walk away as a free man. |
| 591 | |
| 592 | [[WMG: Elia Sand is going to kill a dragon]] |
| 593 | As a Dornishwoman, Elia is from the only region in Westeros that successfully fended off the Targaryen dragons. As the eldest of Oberyn Martell's daughters by Ellaria Sand, she is the daughter of a man whose sigil is a spear and the granddaughter of Lord Uller, head of the house known for killing Meraxes, Queen Rhaenys's dragon. To top it all off, she's a skilled jouster who is nicknamed Lady Lance. This all suggests that she will do what Jaime attempted to do in the show and tilt at a dragon. Unlike Jaime, she will succeed in killing her target. |
| 594 | |
| 595 | [[WMG: The 1000th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch will be Jaime Lannister.]] |
| 596 | Because the irony of him going from Lord Commander of the Kingsguard to Lord Commander of a such a similar, but less–respected institution, plus him finally taking the black after all of his crimes, is just too good to pass up. Presumably, there will be a 999th Lord Commander after Jon [[spoiler:dies and/or comes back to life]], but that Lord Commander will die during the (final?) battle with the Others, and Jaime will finally take his rightful place. |
| 597 | |
| 598 | [[WMG: Cersei will eventually become the Mad Queen.]] |
| 599 | She already seems to have a sexual fascination with fire, just as the Mad King did. Bonus points if Jaime is forced to kill her just like he was forced to kill Aerys. |
| 600 | |
| 601 | [[WMG: Students at the Citadel automatically become maesters when they forge their seventh link.]] |
| 602 | Oberyn Martell is said to have forged "six links of a maester's chain" before giving up and moving on to other pursuits. At some other point (though this troper can't quite recall where), the phrase "six links of a maester's chain" is repeated. That's because six links is insufficient to go around most necks, and so the ends of the chain are still connected by a leather strip which can be symbolically cut. But to gain the seventh link (perhaps because of the mystical association with the Faith of the Seven — the Hightowers, who rule Oldtown, are noted to be a particularly pious family), a student must swear a maester's oaths to serve, both the Citadel and whatever lord or organization they are assigned to. |
| 603 | |
| 604 | Also, given that students at the Citadel seem to be allowed to learn whatever they want but only gain links ''signifying'' their mastery of any one subject by applying and being tested, it's possible that Oberyn may have mastered far more than a mere six subjects, but only ever tested for six and gained the links proving his mastery. |
| 605 | |
| 606 | [[WMG: Relating to the above: theories on the six (or more?) subjects that Oberyn Martell may have mastered.]] |
| 607 | Oberyn is noted to be a master of poisons (he taught his daughter Tyene) and is rumored to have practiced dark sorcery, this troper suggests a Valyrian link (for magic) and whatever link represents medicine (perhaps titanium?). Other potential subjects include history, battlefield tactics, languages, and music. |
| 608 | * Medicine is silver, history is copper, iron is warcraft. The link for languages isn't known yet, nor do we officialy know whether it's a study, but it would be weird if that wasn't the case. I'm less certain about music as a field of study. |
| 609 | |
| 610 | [[WMG: Oberyn didn't poison his blade against Lord Yronwood]] |
| 611 | But he was so incensed at the rumors that he began leaning into the rumors and did learn about poisons at the Citadel, and even learned magic to make his poisons more potent (or, perhaps, just more likely to stay on the blade instead of running off — perhaps even imbuing the poison into the steal itself?). |
| 612 | |
| 613 | [[WMG: Val is completely in the wrong about Shireen]] |
| 614 | Greyscale, like chickenpox (and other diseases in our world), aren't as bad for children as they are for adults, and usually leave the person immune. Maesters know this because they have an easier way to communicate over distances, and a much larger sample size to deal with. The wildlings believe otherwise because they aren't as capable of gathering data as maesters, and the practice of killing children infected with greyscale has likely stuck around for a long time, where failure to do so has meant that a village got wiped out (because of the lack of immune adults, and prejudice against surviving children and/or surviving children not being capable of fending or themselves). |
| 615 | |
| 616 | [[WMG: It wasn't Joffrey who sent an assassin to kill Bran. It was Mance Ryder!]] |
| 617 | |
| 618 | GRRM said that the person who sent an assassin with catspaw valyrian steel dagger with dragonbone hilt will be revealed in ASOS. But it was not, unless... Let's call the assassin the catspaw from now on. |
| 619 | |
| 620 | First of all, neither Tyrion's or Jaime's theories that Joffrey did it make sense. A random guy who joined King's entourage, with a bag of silver, who young princeling hired to kill Lord Stark's son and provided an easily recognizable dagger to him to do the deed? Any no gooder worth his salt would have taken the silver and a dagger and ran away as far as possible once King Robert and company went back home. But wait, where else is a bag of silver found in ASOS? In Mance Ryder's tale! And Mance Ryder is a known and proven liar and known to play quick and loose with the truth. |
| 621 | |
| 622 | First of all and a first lie, he didn't go over the wall alone with his lute and a bag of silver. Generally speaking, it's a good idea to climb tied with somebody else, just in case you slip, then the person below you who is "nailed" to the wall can catch you. The more people climbing at the same time, the more secure everyone is. They usually climb 3 or 4 people on the same rope at a time, as we know from Jon's chapter. |
| 623 | |
| 624 | It is also a good idea to have somebody keep watch over you while you sleep, so your silver and lute are not stolen. There are people living in New Gift, so he could have bought or stolen a horse there, and two can ride on a single horse. Or stolen two horses. Which would get the number of people over the wall, including Mance, between 2 and 4. Therefore, the catspaw is one of his own men that he manipulated with |
| 625 | |
| 626 | "Imagine killing a lord of Winterfell's son. And it would even be a mercy! And I'll give you this bag of silver and the valyrian dagger I got from the king of Seven Kingdoms! (I'll explain later) You would be a legend once you return beyond the wall! A legend of the free people! I would put it all into a song. You would live forever, immortalized in song... " or something like that. |
| 627 | |
| 628 | Second lie: He didn't do it just to see King Robert. He did it all to meet and KILL Robert Baratheon. That was the opportunity of a lifetime, since Robert was the first king in a couple centuries to come that far north and Joffrey is underage. |
| 629 | |
| 630 | Robert's proclivities were well known. He liked to hunt, he liked to drink, he liked bawdy songs, he liked to sleep around. If there were more than two who climbed The Wall, it is very likely that at least one of them was a spearwife pretending to be a pretty washerwoman / camp follower and Mance knows every bawdy song south of The Wall and many more North of the Wall besides. Mance is pretending to be a singer/minstrel. |
| 631 | |
| 632 | Out of King Robert's bodyguards, only Sir Barristan Selmi, Sir Jaime Lannister and Sir Mandon Moore are worth a penny and they are unlikely to follow Robert to a tavern/ drinking den, for different reasons. More likely to follow him is Sir Boros Blunt, who is a bad bodyguard. Robert would hunt occasionally while slowly going North and back, or go ranging on a horse, sometimes too fast to his bodyguards to keep up, because the house on the wheels is so damn slow. It was easy enough to arrange hunting accident or a tavern brawl. Or cut his throat while he is with cute washerwoman/spearwife who fancies a king. Unknown to the wildlings, Robert has a talent that will save his life. |
| 633 | |
| 634 | Third lie: he didn't reach King Robert's entourage a day before it would reach Winterfell. He reached it a week before it would reach Winterfell instead. Mance joined them with his own entourage (Mance +2-3 people, including a spearwife) and he indeed knows every bawdy song south of the wall and a lot of them North of the wall as well. Robert loves bawdy songs and having fun. He probably heard about some minstrel singing bawdy songs after following King's entourage and sneaked incognito to listen to him and drink, away from Cersei, which was all going according to Mance's plan. |
| 635 | Remember who had the dagger at that point in the story! Littlefinger wins the dagger from Tyrion after Jaime gets unhorsed. That evening, Robert shows the dagger to Jaime to rub salt into his wounded pride. Littlefinger's scheming and dwarf jousting trick makes this in his style; he gifts the dagger to Robert just so he could troll Jaime. Why would he troll Jaime? Because Jaime is everything Littlefinger is not. Jaime is highborn, good swordsman, tall, handsome, born in the richest family and never got to work for his money.... |
| 636 | |
| 637 | It would be completely in character for Robert, who doesn't care about swords and daggers and even his own treasury, to gift a dagger to somebody else. Somebody who drinks with him, talks with him, gives him a fun time and teaches him a new bawdy song or ten. Not something too valuable or with gold and jewels in the hilt (because Robert is considerate fellow and doesn't want his new minstrel friend to get robbed and killed, after all) but a kingly gift nevertheless. Maybe he even let Mance choose which one he wants to take and he choose the one made of valyrian steel (good against wights and The Others) and with dragonbone hilt (also good against the Others) he can hide easily. |
| 638 | |
| 639 | What do I base this of? On a line Robert said in the first book to Ned, during Hand's tournament, months after the visit to Winterfell: |
| 640 | |
| 641 | “Let me tell you a secret, Ned. More than once, I have dreamed of giving up the crown. Take ship for the Free Cities with my horse and my hammer, spend my time warring and whoring, that’s what I was made for. The sellsword king, how the singers would love me. You know what stops me? The thought of Joffrey on the throne, with Cersei standing behind him whispering in his ear. My son. How could I have made a son like that, Ned?” |
| 642 | |
| 643 | It is completely in Mance's character to share a drink with a fellow king and try to manipulate him into abandoning his throne. Because, that's exactly what he did to get wildlings to follow him! He would go from tribe to tribe, from chief to chief, from small king to small king. Some he bribed, some he threatened, some he killed in a duel and some he manipulated and talked into following him, into looking things from his point of view. Putting dreams of glory into their head or into following Mance's dreams. That's his talent and that sounds like sort of a dream Mance would put into somebody's head. Robert would die doing what he liked and becoming a legend in the process. |
| 644 | |
| 645 | Another thing he might put into his head was that it was a mercy to end Bran's life. It is very in line with wildling philosophy of life, according to what Val said about Shireen. |
| 646 | |
| 647 | Quote from Cersei: |
| 648 | |
| 649 | ‘We kill our horses when they break a leg, and our dogs when they go blind, but we are too weak to give the same mercy to crippled children,’ he told me. He was blind himself at the time, from drink.” |
| 650 | |
| 651 | Robert? Jaime had guarded the king long enough to know that Robert Baratheon said things in his cups that he would have denied angrily the next day. “Were you alone when Robert said this?” |
| 652 | |
| 653 | What if he was drinking with Mance and his team at the time? And they put that idea in his head as well? And the catspaw did say "It's a mercy, it would be a mercy." |
| 654 | |
| 655 | |
| 656 | And after hanging out with Robert nobody in Mance's group wanted to kill him. Robert is a swell guy any wildling would want to follow, by their own standards and rules. He WAS wild when he was young and was never for lordly and courtly customs and kneeling. And Mance's plan from the beginning is to save his people by moving over the wall and settling them in the Old and New Gift area. And making it a sort of 8th kingdom. At the start of AGOT, Robert is one guy in the whole world at that point who might agree to that. |
| 657 | |
| 658 | "Wait, Abel, are you telling me that you are really The King Beyond The Wall Mance Rayder? That's so wicked cool. Totally radical, dude. |
| 659 | You did it all, went over the wall, killed other to protect your people? And you want to settle your people south of the wall, in my kingdom? You're okay with taking Old and New Gift? Well, as long as you swear me fealty (no need for kneeling, 'cause we are friends, friends don't kneel), keep watch on The Wall against Others and protect my people as well as yours, keep my laws and stay away from the rest of my kingdom, I'm okay with that. I get another 300.000 subjects and you are my friend near The Wall, there to protect my ass at the North? More women for me. I never was with a wildling wo-- I mean, woman of the Free Folk. I slept with a woman from each of my Seven Kingdoms, but never with one from beyond the Wall. Do you think it can be arranged? Who cares about the rest of my lords say, they don't get you like I did, they never sang and got drunk with you." Toast him for a beginning of a beautiful friendship. "You play a mean lute. Play it again, Sam. I think this is a beginning of a beautiful friendship." |
| 660 | |
| 661 | It is also important to note that Robert and Ned never talk about the dagger. Because it would blow the whole mystery wide open and reveal that Robert himself had given the dagger as a gift to some random minstrel who was his drinking buddy for one (or more) nights and taught him a few new bawdy songs. |
| 662 | |
| 663 | But the spanner in Mance's plan to kill King Robert is he didn't know about Robert's secret talent, the one which would save his life: the one talent everybody says Robert has is the ability to inspire loyalty in people and gain friends easily. An uncanny ability to get his worst enemies to love him, drink with him, fight for him, die for him, as recalled in the story of lord's Cafferen, Fell and his son Silver Axe. If you have an ounce of honor and get to know Robert at least a little bit and drink with him, you love him. That's his knack. It is fully in character of both Mance and Robert for Mance to get charmed by the man and actually get to like Robert after drinking with him a few times. So he can't kill him. He shared his guest rights, he drank with him, he likes the guy. Robert is not a threat. He is the guy you can talk and negotiate with. His bastard Edric Storm inherited that talent from him. |
| 664 | |
| 665 | I mean, Mance does like Thormund, who is basically red haired Robert. Maybe Robert reminded him of Thormund. Maybe he thought he could deal and talk with him like he did with Thormund (And Thormund and Jon Snow have the same character dynamic as Robert and Ned had in their youth). On the other hand, there is no such love for Starks of Winterfell. |
| 666 | |
| 667 | In fact, it might have been the change of the original plan that Dalla, who always gives Mance good advice and shares Val's worldview, suggested: sneak into the castle, kill as many Starks as you can, run away in ensuing confusion. It also explains barbaric burning of the library tower: Wildlings have no use for books and scrolls. |
| 668 | |
| 669 | Fourth point: And who could Mance leave to be in charge while he did all that stuff, a person who has both the authority and knows the plan and fully agrees with it? Tormund. Because he was one of the other 3 people who intended and had a chance to become a King Beyond The Wall. Mance has beaten and killed the other two in combat, but we never get to know what deal he cut with Tormund. Might have been |
| 670 | |
| 671 | "If I die trying this crazy thing, you get to rule the wildlings. But if I succeed, everything must be ready according to my plan. Ok? Trust me, this is going to work. And it is going to be awesome, a story worth of a thousand songs! King beyond the Wall killing the King of Seven Kingdoms. No wildling ever did that before! How cool is that, man?" |
| 672 | |
| 673 | And Thormund was like: "Okay, that sounds cool. I have nothing to lose and get what I wanted either way." |
| 674 | |
| 675 | And if there were two ropes, two teams climbing the Wall, this brings the number of wildling going to meet and kill King Robert between 6 and 8 and would nicely explain what Osha and her team were doing so close to Winterfell and why Osha said "We should bring him to Mance." to her companion. If Mance is Beyond the Wall, it makes no sense, that's 3 weeks trip to the Wall at least, towing Bran. But if they split up and half are waiting for the catspaw to do his job before joining Mance and the rest of their team is just a few days away... |
| 676 | |
| 677 | [[WMG: Young Griff will play the role of Cersei in the show]] |
| 678 | It's extremely unlikely that Cersei can just up and declare herself the Queen like in the show. The Lannister army is far away and King's Landing is surrounded by Tommen's vassals. What's far more likely to happen is that in the absence of any remaining Robert's heirs, the lords of the Crownlands will declare for either Stannis or Young Griff. Either way, the Golden Company will take control of King's Landing, either by force or by getting let in. fAegon will then be crowned the king of Westeros and play the role of Danaerys' chief rival. |
| 679 | |
| 680 | [[WMG: Elia Martell advised Doran on what to do after Edgar Yronwood's death]] |
| 681 | Arianne notes that a blood feud and rebellion would have followed Edgar's death by Oberyn's hand had Doran not acted at once. However, Doran is not known for quick action. He is much like Arianne in that he'll prefer to think over issues until his hand is forced, and on top of that, consistently takes longer than he says he will. This makes the comment that he acted immediately stand out as somewhat uncharacteristic behaviour - even more so because at this point, he was not yet the ruling prince as his mother was still alive. Therefore, it is possible that it was Elia, more decisive than her older brother, came up with the solution that would avoid the conflict. |
| 682 | |
| 683 | [[WMG: Aegon the Unworthy wasn't really the father of Daemon Blackfyre]] |
| 684 | * It isn't too far-fetched that Aegon would have made that up just to undermine his hated son Daeron. If so this could do even more to undermine Young Griff's support and legitimacy. |
| 685 | |
| 686 | [[WMG: Aegon the Unworthy did at least think Daeron wasn't his son.]] |
| 687 | While a ''massive'' petty asshole and biased person, it'd be too easy for [[WrittenByTheWinners post-Blackfyre Rebellion sources]] to claim he or pro-Blackfyre supporters just made up an idea of an affair to disinherit Daeron. And even then, most historical sources suggest Aemon and Naerys were in love, even if they never acted on it. Because they hated him and he hated them, Aegon convinced himself that they had an affair and Daeron was illegitimate. Given his immense ego it'd be in-character for him to [[BelievingTheirOwnLies believe his own lies and biases]] just like Henry VIII ([[NoHistoricalCharactersWereHarmed who he's partially inspired by]]) did. It'd also give ''slightly'' more justification for legitimizing his bastards if he was convinced his heir wasn't actually his son. [[LikeFatherUnlikeSon Their radically different personalities]] would only serve as proof in his mind he's right. |
| 688 | |
| 689 | [[JerkWithAHeartOfJerk He'd still be a massive hypocrite of course, but that's the best you can hope for with the Unworthy]]. |
| 690 | |
| 691 | [[WMG: Despite hints that Hizdahr is the Harpy, it's not him]] |
| 692 | It's Galazza Galare, advisor to Daenerys and secretly the Mother of the Harpy's Sons. |
| 693 | * From a Doylist perspective, it seems too obvious to have Hizdahr turn out to be the Harpy after the text heavily implies he is and Barristan suspects him of being so. |
| 694 | * She is from the House of Galare, one of the ruling families of Meereen who had their lives upended by Daenerys' conquest. They have good reason to want Meereen to be restored to its former state. They read the writing on the wall and have pretended to be more accepting of Daenerys' rule (seeing harsh consequences for those who are not), but they are biding their time. |
| 695 | * Daenerys wants to ban the ''tokar'', but Galazza tells her that she must wear it if she wants to be accepted by the Meereenese, a hint that she wants to preserve old traditions...like Meereen the way it was before the Mother of Dragons came, maybe? |
| 696 | * When she says that Meereen's queen must be "a lady of Old Ghis," she's not talking about Daenerys. Not necessarily herself, either, as she is very old and would not be ruling for long. Perhaps a younger female member of the House of Galare, or even the House of Pahl, described as a house of "bitter old women with a taste for blood." |
| 697 | * She is the one who advises Daenerys to marry Hizdahr, who is implied to be a member of the Sons of the Harpy, if not the Harpy himself. When Hizdahr is accused of being the Harpy, Galazza insists that he is innocent and beseeches Barristan to release him. |
| 698 | * When Barristan sends her to offer peace terms and gold to the Yunkai'i regarding the hostages, Galazza tells him that they have refused his offer and that they will only release the hostages if the dragons are killed. She is lying because she wants the dragons dead. |
| 699 | * She seems a little too eager to believe that Daenerys is dead for someone who supported her so staunchly. |
| 700 | * Two of her family members, a young boy named Grazhar and a young girl named Qezza, are Daenerys' cupbearers/hostages. She had a hand in that happening, knowing it would put Daenerys in a MortonsFork situation. If Daenerys kills them, it will make her look even more like the tyrant many think she is. If Daenerys doesn't kill them, she has no leverage over the Meereenese noble families who oppose her reign. Of course, if this theory is true, then it makes Galazza look even worse as she is putting her young relatives in danger of being executed as part of a political plot. |
| 701 | * Finally, she is BeneathSuspicion from both an in- and out-of-universe perspective -- who would suspect a gentle, kindly priestess to be the leader of the Sons of the Harpy? |
| 702 | |
| 703 | [[WMG:Marillion is a DepravedBisexual]] |
| 704 | Boys, girls, it doesn't matter as long as he can take advantage of them and get away with it. Canonically, Lysa has banished two serving girls and a page for supposedly telling lies about him. |
| 705 | |
| 706 | [[WMG:The Mad King's "burn them all" was in reference to the White Walkers marching on King's Landing.]] |
| 707 | That's it. That's the theory. By the end of his life, he wasn't seeing the present, he was seeing the future. Being the greatest fire enthusiast of all time, the Red God was giving him glimpses of the future where the Others plow through Winterfell, forcing the entire population of King's Landing to evacuate, which means all that cached Wildfire under the city can be detonated while the enemy swarms a labyrinthine mess of alleys just above the blaze. |
| 708 | |
| 709 | [[WMG:Cersei suffers from gender dysphoria, but the culture she lives in doesn't have that concept.]] |
| 710 | She describes not knowing why she and Jaime were treated differently, and her jealousy over Brienne seems to be not just jealousy over Jaime, but envy over Brienne's freedom to fight like a man without owing it to the world around her to be the most beautiful woman in the kingdoms the way Cersei herself is. Also I'm not sure if that line was also in the books, but she does tell Robert that she ought to be the one in armor. |
| 711 | |
| 712 | [[WMG:Obara was pimped out as a young girl in Oldtown.]] |
| 713 | When the brothel that she and her mother lived in fell on hard times, the proprietor started charging high prices to particularly depraved customers to have alone time with the prostitutes' children. Obara grew to hate her mother for not being able to protect her from those men. This is why she hates the town so much and why she was so eager to leave her mother, who she had known all her life, to go live with a father she had never met. When she held the spear, it was the first time she had ever felt strong. |
| 714 | |
| 715 | [[WMG:The House of Black and White owns the face of the ugly little girl's father as well as hers.]] |
| 716 | He is dead, and one of the Faceless Men is mentioned to be wearing a fat and bearded face... |
| 717 | |
| 718 | [[WMG:Young Griff is a descendant of Aerion Brightflame]] |
| 719 | Prince Aerion was the second son of King Maekar who was exiled to Essos for his cruelty. He had at least one son, Maegor, but we know nothing about other children Aerion might have had or any descendants of Maegor after he was passed over for his uncle Aegon V. Assuming the family stayed in Essos, it's not hard to imagine how Young Griff could have fallen in with Connington and Golden Company. Young Griff's temper and impatience could also be a clue that he is descended from the psychopathic Aerion and/or Maegor, who was passed over due to fears he would inherit his father's madness. Maegor being passed over for the throne also explains why Connington might try to present Young Griff as a different Targaryen prince, descended from one of the most beloved princes in the realm's history instead of one of the most hated. |
| 720 | |
| 721 | [[WMG:Maegor believed Aenys was illegitimate.]] |
| 722 | In-universe it was rumored that King Aenys wasn't fathered by Aegon the Conqueror as some said his mother Rhaenys ReallyGetsAround, and [[LikeFatherUnlikeSon he wasn't that similar to him]]. Maegor was a violent [[TheUsurper usurper]], but maybe he didn't kill his nephew to take the throne ''just'' because DespotismJustifiesTheMeans. Perhaps he thought that Aenys was a bastard and he would've been the rightful heir, but didn't act until he died either out of convenience or [[EvenEvilHasLovedOnes he was fond of Aenys]]. However history is WrittenByTheWinners and Maegor [[TheCaligula was still the Cruel]], so it was easy to make him seem worse by ignoring any legitimate reason he might've had for taking the Iron Throne. |
| 723 | |
| 724 | [[WMG:Unwin Peake was actually a good dad.]] |
| 725 | He was a power-hungry asshole, but he loved his children and raised them well. His daughter Myrielle was a pleasant and lovely girl, and his son Titus was knighted for valor before dying. |
| 726 | |
| 727 | [[WMG: Euron is trying to prevent New Long Night.]] |
| 728 | After all what worth it is [[spoiler: to become a god and]] to lead you horde into pillagin the world if world will soon just die. |
| 729 | |
| 730 | [[WMG: Quaithe is Shiera Seastar.]] |
| 731 | Quaithe is a mysterious masked woman and magic practitioner that's supportive to Daenerys for reasons never explained, and wears a mask. Shiera Seastar was a Targaryen bastard rumored to practice sorcery and BloodMagic, who took blood baths to maintain her beauty. We also don't know what happened to her compared to the rest of the Great Bastards, though we know her paramour Brynden Rivers (whom she taught magic to) managed to extend his life beyond its natural limits, and that her own mother was believed to practice the dark arts to maintain her youth. Perhaps they're the same person, and Quaithe is working in tandem/competing with the Three-Eyed Crow. Helping Dany is either part of a bigger scheme, and/or her wanting to restore her family back on the Iron Throne. Admittedly the Three-Eyed Crow mentions her as one of the ghosts of his past in a later book, but maybe either that's related to general grief or Shiera's extreme age caught up with her between books. |
| 732 | |
| 733 | [[WMG: In the aftermath of Jon Snow's death...]] |
| 734 | Gilly's son ''will'' die, since he is an innocent baby, Jon promised Gilly to protect him, and it's a CrapsackWorld. It just seems like something GRRM would do. It's only after the baby is already killed that [[spoiler:Jon might come back to life, but until then, maybe he'll "get" to see the whole horrible tragedy unfold in front of him from inside Ghost's body.]] The why could be one of two different reasons: |
| 735 | |
| 736 | Option 1: The Night's Watch launches a slaughter on free folk immediately after killing Jon to take advantage of the free folk not being prepared for war, since Jon making nice with wildings was one of the things they really weren't big fans of. Normally they might hesitate more to kill a baby, but winter is coming and they don't need an extra wilding mouth to feed. It doesn't help at all that as far as they know, he's the son of Mance Rayder; or if Val and/or Melisandre reveal the truth to try to save him, he's still a product of incest and an "abomination". |
| 737 | |
| 738 | Option 2: ''Gilly's son'' is going to be the sacrifice to R'hllor that [[spoiler:Shireen Baratheon was in the show, or at least he'll be who they try first before it doesn't work and they try Shireen next out of desperation]]. My money's on this more given the spoiler, and because it's even more cruelly ironic: Jon swapped the babies to try to save Mance's son, but Gilly's son gets killed instead from the misunderstanding; also Gilly ran off to the Night's Watch to try to save her son from being sacrificed to the Others, but he will instead be sacrificed to the Lord of Light to fight the Others. Even worse, it might be the baby's death that [[spoiler:is the magic that triggers Jon's resurrection, similar to the blood magic Dany unknowingly used to hatch her dragons. Have fun living with ''that'' on your conscience, Jonny!]] |
| 739 | |
| 740 | If Option 2, whether Melisandre will be involved is an open question: |
| 741 | * It's implied Melisandre already knows about the swap, but it might still happen anyway: Melisandre might become desperate enough to sacrifice Gilly's son even knowing he's not a king but ''because'' he's innocent: as she says, "The Lord of Light cherishes the innocent. There is no sacrifice more precious." Her motivation may be to try to [[spoiler:resurrect Jon Snow if she realizes Jon is inside Ghost and sees some sign that he is needed to return to life]], or because she is watching Stannis' party in her flames and sees something that makes her feel she has to intervene with one of her miracles to save his campaign. |
| 742 | * It could also be another fanatic like Selyse orders the sacrifice, following Melisandre's teachings and thinking it ''is'' the blood of a king, without Melisandre present to tell them otherwise. Melisandre is off doing Melisandre things and arrives late to the party for a real double-whammy of [[spoiler:"the Night's Watch rebelled and murdered Lord Commander Snow"]] and "my followers have already sacrificed an innocent baby to the flames". To maximize the tragic irony, despite the above point about "the innocent", Melisandre would actually have stopped her followers and spared the baby if she'd been present, to keep Jon as a more willing ally, same as she secretly spared the baby's "father" Mance Rayder for another purpose despite having the blood of a king in her clutches. Either way, she will be blamed for the baby's horrific murder, putting her in good company with other people like Theon Greyjoy and Jaime Lannister as "not quite as evil as they're generally believed to be and didn't do this particular wrong thing, but history won't care". |
| 743 | |
| 744 | [[WMG:Weasel, the little orphan girl from the Riverlands, was eventually found by the Brotherhood Without Banners and brought to the Crossroads Inn]] |
| 745 | Hey, it could have happened... |
| 746 | |
| 747 | [[WMG:Septa Lemore is a Hightower and possibly Young Griff's mother]] |
| 748 | Tyrion notes he figured out everyone else ''except'' her and wonders who she is and whether she's even a septa - that sets her up as being an important character with a mystery to be solved. A noblewoman in disguise would fit the bill. Her name is vaguely similar to those of several in the current generation of House Hightower (Lord '''Le'''yton, '''Le'''yla, Malora sounds ''very'' similar to Lemore - perhaps Lemore even ''is'' Malora, like Arya going by Arry when incognito) and one from the past (Prince Per'''emore'''), and families in this series tend to have ThemeNaming, so "Lemore" may be choosing an alias as a private reference or with meaning to her. Hightowers have powerful connections with the Citadel and the Faith, so a Hightower lady would have the knowledge needed to pass herself off as a septa and could easily have the connections to have recruited Haldon Halfmaester as Young Griff's tutor (theoretically a Hightower could recruit a full-fledged maester, but a failed acolyte dropping off the face of the earth to go running off to Essos would raise less questions than a full maester). Hightowers are [[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Hightower#Traits vaguely implied]] to have silvery-gold hair, which is pretty distinctive for a Westeros-born septa and could necessitate dyeing her hair as Young Griff does. The Hightowers are a rich and powerful family, doubly so with their influence on the Faith and the Citadel - Illyrio and Varys courting them to Young Griff's cause via Lemore would be a major advantage for them, and would benefit the Hightowers as usurping House Tyrell in influence again as Aegon's backers should he become King. |
| 749 | |
| 750 | (Note: It's also mentioned Lord Leyton and Malora have been busy consulting "spellbooks" - like Melisandre, are they trying to find a way to hatch new dragons, to give to Young Griff? The dragons originally died out after the Dance that House Hightower instigated back then, it would be ironic to have them be the ones actively looking for a way to bring dragons back after all this time to once again cement the rule of their preferred king.) |
| 751 |
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/context.php
FollowingContext WMG / ASongOfIceAndFirePartIII
Go To
- Show Spoilers
- Night Vision
- Sticky Header
- Wide Load
