Line #17 Headscratchers/DarkPhoenix


1	[[folder: Days of Future Past didn't change anything?]]
2	* Since ''Logan'' is established to take place in the "good" future shown at the end of ''Days of Future Past'', what's the point of making any more movies set before that time? We all know what's going to happen, and that everything the X-Men do will be for nothing, since they all end up either dead or in hiding. Or has it been confirmed that Logan is set in a third alternate universe?
3	** Nowhere within the movie is that established. Hugh Jackman, at least, considers it more of an Elseworld.
4	** The point is to make a TruerToTheText version of ''ComicBook/TheDarkPhoenixSaga'' (at least truer to the text than ''Film/XMenTheLastStand'' was). The prequel stories that started with ''Film/XMenFirstClass'' are set ten years apart from each other between films, so they go for the 1990s. It's been reported that Creator/BryanSinger didn't consult with Creator/JamesMangold when making ''Film/XMenApocalypse'' anyway, it's probably the same regarding Simon Kinberg on ''Dark Phoenix'' and Mangold on his ''X-23'' project in the writing (which has been cancelled since). Just because we know what happens in the future (or more likely, one future) doesn't negate the ''raison d'être'' of a prequel/film set before that future.
5	*** Not to mention, there are a good many characters whose fate we're unaware of - Magneto, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Quicksilver etc. to name a few.
6	** With Logan, well... it can’t be the BAD timeline from DOFP due to the lack of Sentinels running around, which means it’s gotta be the good one. Nothing in-universe pushes Logan into non-canon territory yet, as much as we don’t want that film’s backstory to be the X-Men’s final fate. Behind the scenes there are those who consider it a “what if” and those who consider it the one true future, but ultimately, it’ll be up to whoever writes the later films as we keep skipping ahead a decade per movie (assuming they keep doing that, and assuming the MCU X-Men won’t be a total reboot.)
7	*** It doesn't have to be either of those two timelines. It's in the nature of alternate universes that there are as many of them as there need to be.
8	*** The alternate universes happen, just as the alternate titles of characters (e.g., Spiderman I, II, & III, Amazing Spiderman I & II, and Spider-Man: Homecoming & Far From Home) are all the Spiderman character, just slightly different universes. (Don't get started with Spiderman: Into the Spider-verse.)
9	* ''Days of Future Past'' has a scene where Xavier flashes through Logan's memories of everything that happened in the original timeline, including ''Last Stand''. Shouldn't he be taking some of that knowledge into account in how he handles Jean and her powers?
10	[[/folder]]
11
12	[[folder: Beast gone bad]]
13	* No one finds it disturbing that Beast wants to kill Jean (a friend) for ACCIDENTALLY killing Raven? I would buy it if the murderer was a complete stranger, but Hank knew Jean for a while now. He and Jean seemed to have a good relationship before the space incident. He doesn't want to cure her, he wants to end her life.
14	** As I recall, he doesn't believe that it was an accident. From his perspective, Jean got angry at Raven and used her powers to fling her into spikes. This would essentially be voluntary manslaughter. In a New York court, that's 5 to 25 years in prison, not a death sentence, but presumably Beast takes it personally, given that Raven is his girlfriend, and he believes that if Jean is willing to kill Raven, she's a threat to every single person on Earth.
15	** On a wider note, when so many comics storylines have explored Hank's concerns that his intellect will be suppressed by his more feral instincts, couldn't it also be possible that he was basically succumbing to his 'beast side' and lashing out at the person his primitive subconscious regarded as responsible for the death of his 'mate', with Hank's emotions consuming him to such an extent that he didn't even recognise that Jean wouldn't have done that on purpose? It can hardly be a coincidence that he was more willing to help defend Jean when he had some time to just sit and think rather than feel angry and able to lash out at others.
16	[[/folder]]
17
18	[[folder: Guards don't believe the mutants about aliens?]]
19	* When the train is attacked, the prisoners spend time trying to convince the guards that the attackers are not mutants, and that they'll need their help to get rid of them. Uhhh... How do they know any of that? Cyclops, Magneto and Prof. X have all seen Vuk, but all they've seen her do is try to take the Pheonix Force. Neither she nor Jean told them who she was, what she was, or that there were more like her. It's implied Xavier can't read her mind, and while Jean knows more, Charles explicitly can't read her mind either. How do they know she's not a mutant? How do they know the attackers are related to her: for all they know, they could be from the Academy or Genosha, here to save them? Even if they know they're with her, even if they somehow know they aren't mutants, how do they know they're such a threat that a train of heavily armed guards will be overwhelmed by them?
20	** I assume they heard the radio transmission saying "they're not mutants.", yeah it was cut off but it's pretty obvious what was being said. As for how they know they're such a threat the guards won't handle them Xavier could be telling them telepathically.
21	** It can also be that Charles and Magneto have a fairly good idea of how many mutants are around and hence know there is no way a hitherto unknown group would be able to launch such an attack on the train. The X-Men mansion seems to contain mostly children apart from the main characters, and Magneto presumably left orders preventing anyone from Genosha to follow him.
22	** In any case, if it gets them out of the cuffs and, hopefully, back into humans' good grace by helping them repell the attack, then it cannot hurt. I suppose saying "they're not mutants" was meant to distance X-Men and Genoshians from the attackers and dissuade the guards from assuming that it ''was'' a rescue attempt by other mutants, which at that point would've done much more harm than good.
23	** What I wonder is, what made the guards come to that incredibly fortunate "they're not mutants" conclusion? They had no prior experience with aliens, so wouldn't ''any'' people with weird powers qualify as mutants to them?
24	*** Possibly the fact that they revert to their alien forms when killed, and even getting them seriously wounded make them temporarily regain their alien features. Since this world is much more mutant-friendly, it could be that mutant physiology is a little better known (especially by soldiers belonging to an unit dedicated to them), so the soldiers could realise that this is not a normal reaction for a mutant, especially so many of them at once.
25	*** The soldiers have "neutralize" rounds that appear to be syringes filled with mutant-power-canceling chemicals (hence why Beast gets back to human form when hit). Something akin to the cure from X-3, with shorter effects. We get treated to a shot of the soldiers trying that on the lead alien, who no-sells it. At this point, it's shorter to shout "they're not mutants" than "our anti-mutant rounds don't work on them".
26	*** There's also the fact that the aliens all have the exact same powers, which is not usually how mutants work.
27	[[/folder]]
28
29	[[folder: Mutant identification?]]
30	* Who the heck was the female on Magneto's team? I know the guy with the braids was Warpath (at least I think). Who the heck was the chick? I don't think I heard her name once.
31	** She was Selene (as in Selene Gallio, Black Queen of the Hellfire Club), and her name was spoken just once by Magneto, after she was pulled out of the train. And the guy with braids was Red Lotus, although the only person to use that name in the comics was Paul Hark, a member of an Australian-based criminal group (and he wasn't even a mutant).
32	** OP here, thanks!
33	** The guy with the braids is named "Ariki" here. Warpath was in ''Days of Future Past''.
34	[[/folder]]
35
36	[[folder: Mystique forgetting Charles' sacrifices]]
37	* Mystique says how Xavier has never sacrificed anything. Did she not remember what happened in Cuba, where he was shot (admittedly by a deflected bullet) trying to prevent Magneto from killing the two naval forces?
38	** She says that she doesn't remember the last time he risked anything and that event was 30 years ago.
39	** And from her view, reluctance and refusal to sacrifice are akin to cowardice. In Apocalypse she criticized Xavier's school, saying if its students aren't taught to cope handle the outside world then it's little more than a sanctuary - not a bad thing, but not good enough for her.
40	[[/folder]]
41
42	[[folder: No evidence of alien existence]]
43	* From what I saw all the guards on the train were killed, and the bodies of the aliens were disintegrated by Jean Grey. So there's no evidence that the X-Men were fighting off an alien invasion.
44	** Not all the bodies were destroyed. There's probably several that were not disintegrated because Jean only disintegrates six of them (seven if you count Vuk), for example a few were knocked off the train (including one that suicide-attacked Ariki) and those should be in (relatively) good shape.
45	[[/folder]]
46
47	[[folder: What good is Cerebro against the Phoenix?]]
48	* A scene in the trailer saw Charles using Cerebro against the Phoenix, and the whole chamber was on fire. I can't remember if it was a deleted scene, but how much strength can it give to Xavier, the world's best telepath, against Jean Gray?
49	** In the final film the details of the scene are a little different, but it's explained that Jean's mind is resisting Xavier's attempts to get into her head, so he needs Cerebro for more power.
50	[[/folder]]
51
52	[[folder: Magneto having no interest in Jean Grey's powers?!]]
53	* I get it, this incarnation of Magneto is different from the previous one in X-Men: The Last Stand, where he has his own country where mutants can live freely without having to face human persecution and the events of X-Men: Apocalypse means he is less antagonistic towards the other countries. He is still amusingly out of character, especially when compared to the comics' version. The essence of Magneto's character is his belief that mutantkind should be more aggressive in protecting their own rights and if need be, express their own superiority to humankind. Since Erik realizes Jean Grey is overwhelmingly powerful, he would most likely make use of her to build up his power base in Genosha. Even the scenario of a peaceful Genosha would have Magneto see Jean Grey as a political godsend in building up Genosha's defenses, and the best military that humankind has to offer will find it pointlessly costly to fight Genosha. Instead this movie makes it look like Magneto fears a country ran by humans, bowing down to them and therefore seeing Jean Grey as a political liability to him in Genosha.
54	* And the out of character moments only got worse as the movie continued to run. Apparently learning that Jean killed Raven upset Erik enough for him to seek to revenge-kill Jean. This wildly contradicts his character in X-Men: Days of the Future Past where in his own perspective he is far-sighted, does things for the greater good, and therefore has no qualms about killing Raven in order to ensure a better future for mutantkind.
55	[[/folder]]
56
57	[[folder: Jean's fiery powers are just a coincidence?]]
58	* So, Jean's full powers have always appeared as flames, and her evil split personality has always called itself 'Phoenix'. Assuming her fiery bird aura when fighting Apocalypse wasn't a straight retcon, is it just one gigantic, cosmic coincidence that a fiery bird entity that also calls itself 'the Phoenix' chose to possess Jean? The only other explanation seems to be that it chose her because her powers looked like a firebird.
59	[[/folder]]

Context Headscratchers / DarkPhoenix