Line #21 Fridge/SpiderMan3


1	!!FridgeBrilliance
2	* Why does Peter think acting like Emo Peter will make him cool? The first reason is that he's possessed by an alien with no concept of what humans consider attractive, and the second is that Peter himself doesn't know what others think is cool or attractive. When the symbiote pushes him, Peter instinctively latches onto his preconceptions and reinvents himself in that direction.
3	* Many people have mocked Peter's "emo" phase when the symbiote gains influence over him. But, during this sequence, Peter displays the classic symptoms of a [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mania manic]] episode. Check them: an inflated sense of confidence, sexual aggressiveness, ''physical'' aggressiveness, and near-lethal irritability. This interpretation is probably what Sam Raimi intended, given that mania is associated with elevated adrenaline levels and the symbiote canonically fed off the adrenal glands.
4	** Alternatively, Peter's inhibitions are just being lowered by the symbiote. He's no longer nervous or timid. He's aggressive, etc. So, he's acting boldly. But since Peter's such a nerd in the first place, he still doesn't know what it means to be cool. So, it comes off as him being a jerk. Take as evidence his Film/SaturdayNightFever walk. He thinks he's neat in this scene, but most people he passes react to him with disgust or laughter. Because he's just a nerd, pretending to be bold and, predictably, just coming off as a bigger nerd for trying too hard.
5	** In the infamous strutting scene, women are attracted by him and turn their heads after him as he cockily walks past. They raise their eyebrows instead when he starts acting weird - not just cocky, but doing odd things like shooting fingers at them and dancing in the street. It's analogous to getting drunk - at first, it's just enough to get you to loosen up and feel confident, but once it gets too much, you get weird, inadequate, and repulsive. Peter is DrunkOnTheDarkSide.
6	** Confidence is sexy. As Peter gives in to the symbiote, the boost to his confidence and freedom to ''be'' makes him more attractive. But then he gets ''over''confident, and people start reacting to him like a pathetic poseur.
7	* Seems odd that Peter Parker, a science-loving kid from Queens, somehow knows how to play the piano, right? Remember that a throwaway line in ''Film/SpiderMan2'' established that Aunt May gives piano lessons. She probably gave them to Peter too.
8	** Confirmed in the novelization.
9	* Came over here after seeing the WhatCouldHaveBeen for ''Spider-Man 3'' -- specifically, the butler was supposed to be another illusion of Harry's. Suddenly, that scene with him telling Harry that Norman did indeed kill himself MAKES SENSE. It's not the butler being a moron and not letting Harry know that Spider-Man didn't kill his father; THERE IS NO BUTLER. Harry's just using the butler as a mouthpiece as he tells himself that his friend Peter wasn't responsible for his father's death and that there's no need for revenge!
10	** Funny thing; we see the same butler in the first film, but Bernard's ''completely absent'' for the second. Harry wasn't just imagining him; Harry imagined a man he knew who had ''already died or been fired''.
11	** The butler was in the second film. Even here, he seems like he could be Harry's imagined voice of reason, given the latter's hallucination at the end.
12	--->'''Butler:''' Your father only obsessed over his work.\
13	'''Harry:''' Goodnight, Bernard.
14	** Isn't this canon? The intent for the butler to be a hallucination was always there, and nothing in the final product contradicts it.
15	*** 'Fraid there is. I'm sure Peter and Bernard spoke to each other in the scene where Peter visits Harry at his home after the accident. And then, when Harry asks Bernard if he has any girlfriends, Peter doesn't react as though anything strange is happening.
16	*** Discussing if Bernard is real or not is ultimately pointless because if he's not an illusion, it doesn't mean he's not a symbol of Harry's better half trying to get through to him. Jiminy Cricket is a real cricket in-universe, but the writer uses him to symbolize Pinocchio's conscience.
17	*** Peter doesn't awkwardly respond when Harry speaks to his butler later, so he is certainly alive.
18	*** Peter shakes the guy's hand. So unless that's just [[WildMassGuessing all in Harry's mind...]]
19	*** Isn't it easy enough to put both together? Bernard is alive, but the part when he tells Harry about his father's death is in Harry's imagination.
20	** People always say the butler was stupid for not telling Harry, but his motives make perfect sense. At the end of ''Spider-Man'', he learns how Norman died but doesn't tell Harry because he knows it would be damaging if Harry knew his dad was a killer. You can argue if that would be worse than Harry thinking Spidey killed Norman, but that's another story. At the end of ''Spider-Man 2'', Harry discovers his dad was the Goblin, but his butler never knew that detail. Then Harry lost his memory. The butler is unaware that Harry knew his dad was the Goblin until after Harry's bomb goes off in his face. Ergo, the butler's logic is 1. Don't tell Harry his dad was the Goblin. 2. If Harry knows that his dad was the Goblin, tell him how Norman died. He didn't know point 2 had occurred until he told Harry what happened that night.
21	** The butler is most likely real. He didn't tell Harry anything because Harry spent the entire trilogy either in the dark about his father being the Green Goblin or obsessing over his vengeance to the point of madness. After getting napalmed in the face, Harry lost the will to fight and was thus more willing to listen to reason.
22	** [[spoiler:''Film/SpiderManNoWayHome'' seems to confirm this, as Sandman mentions how he saw on the news that Norman Osborn died and that he was the Green Goblin, which means that Harry knew that his father was the Goblin all the time but stubbornly refused to accept it.]]
23	*** Dovetailing further from the above point, it retroactively explains [[spoiler: Harry hearing the Green Goblin's blood-chilling laugh after the climax in the previous film. With no explicit supernatural elements shown in the films, the only way Harry would've heard the laugh and then seen his father is if the connection was already there.]]
24	* Some people dislike that Venom isn't overly muscular, but one can explain this canonically. Venom initially only acted as a second skin or a skin-tight suit; Eddie had to gain the muscles before they showed up on the suit. The movie version of Eddie didn't do a thing to buff himself up, which means no extra muscle mass.
25	* This one only works in the ''Editor's Cut''. When Harry gets impaled by Venom, he looks shocked and briefly lingers on Peter; this is only the case in the theatrical version because Harry just suffered a fatal injury to save Peter. The ''Editor's Cut'' adds some extra context by omitting the scene where Harry's butler tells Harry how his father died, meaning Harry decides to help Peter and MJ on his own without that revelation. As a result, his shocked expression when he gets impaled and how he lingers on Peter takes on new meaning: ''He just realized that this is how his father died and that Peter was innocent all along!'' [[WordOfGod Sam Raimi's claim]] that Harry hallucinated the butler telling him this in the theatrical version lends credence to the implication that Harry subconsciously knew all along that his father killed himself and turned to revenge because he couldn't accept that due to [[WellDoneSonGuy his misguided loyalty to his father]]. The ''Editor's Cut'' having Harry decide on his own to call off his grudge for the sake of his friends frees him up to finally recall and accept the truth of his father's death when he gets fatally wounded similarly.
26	* In a case that works for both versions, since Bernard was supposed to be a hallucination, this would mean that Harry had ''always'' chosen by himself to go back and help Peter. The hallucination may have been suggested to be his thought process. The Editor's Cut could have removed it [[AdaptationDistillation for simplicity's sake]] [[SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome or even show how it happened back in reality]].
27	* When the symbiote first latches onto Eddie, some of it crawls into his mouth. His teeth have become [[FangsAreEvil pointed]] a few seconds later. It stands to reason that the symbiote specifically got into his mouth to make this change.
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29	!!FridgeHorror
30	* Seems a bit weird that MJ would get the starring role in a Broadway show only to be booted out after a few critics didn't like her singing. She landed the part anyway, right? And it's not like she's rich and bribed her way into it. She must have gotten in on talent alone, but you know who ''is'' rich? Two people in particular:
31	** 1. Harry Osborn. He could have paid for MJ to get the role (we see him there on the opening night), either knowing that she'd fail because she wasn't good enough or genuinely hoping she'd be able to use it as a first step for her career. Furthermore, if he planned for her to fail as part of his revenge plan against Peter, Harry may have paid for the critics' bad reviews before losing his memory. He'd ensure that MJ would be unhappy and, with how Peter is always busy being Spider-Man, maybe seek comfort from Harry.
32	** 2. J. Jonah Jameson. Even if MJ got in on her talent, she left his son at the altar in front of everyone to hook up with the punk kid Jameson has been working on getting pictures of Spider-Man. Considering he owns a newspaper and has critics working for him but may even know critics working for other papers, he possibly paid them all off to smear MJ's performance as repayment for humiliating his son.
33	* When Eddie Brock arrives at the church and prays for God to kill Peter Parker for exposing him, we can see a priest and two other guys in the church. Whereas the latter two seemingly leave the church as Eddie prays, the priest was likely still there when Eddie transformed into Venom. We never see how Venom left the church, so this may mean that if the priest heard Peter and Eddie's screams and came to see what was happening in the bell tower, [[NothingIsScarier things didn't end well for him...]]
34	** Even more horrifying, Venom may have done something horribly to that poor priest. [[WesternAnimation/Castlevania2017 Something]] [[https://youtu.be/BC1kke-WgLo like this]].
35	* The reveal that Flint Marko shot Uncle Ben because he had a sensitive trigger that he pulled upon Dennis Carradine, startling him. It suggests that even if Peter did the right thing and stopped Carradine when he could have, something else (like a cop showing up to the carjacking or someone accidentally running into him) could've startled Marko into shooting Ben anyway.
36	* Nobody here seems to notice that the symbiote is STILL OUT THERE! Remember the church scene when it's falling off Peter and onto Eddie? A little bit lands on Eddie's jacket, and he quickly tosses it aside.
37	** And even if you could explain that piece of the symbiote away by saying it reconnected with the rest when it bonded with Brock, there's still the piece left in Connors' lab -- who's to say that couldn't recreate itself or reproduce?
38	** Also, look closely at the bomb's aftermath. See something strange, like a burning blob of goop moving on its own? Maybe the flame kills it, but we don't know for sure.
39	** Since it's had hosts, it could have spawned some offspring in an indeterminate time.
40	** However, since the film showed him experimenting on it in one scene, Connors probably either discovered its ability to recreate/reproduce or decided that no one else should bond with it and become aggressive like Peter. He likely destroyed the sample by putting it in a fire or something like that.
41	*** Alternatively, it might have gone on to play a part in turning Connors into the Lizard if the Raimi movies hadn't ended.
42	** Forgive me if I'm misremembering the movie, it's been a long time since I've seen it, but didn't he have the piece Peter gave him in a jar? Granted, I question how that's enough to contain it, but he had the situation under control. Also, for the "flaming piece of goop," the symbiote is weak to fire, so even if it did get away, it would die soon anyway.
43	* Given how Eddie is an arrogant jerk without morals and Gwen is an all-around good person who does have morals, the so-called 'relationship' between them takes on a darker meaning upon closer inspection. It's an exploration of a seemingly-harmless narcissist getting taken down a few pegs and pushed to the edge into psychopathy, not unlike RealLife, especially with how the original script and novelization show how unhinged Eddie becomes at his lowest point. If the climax went in its originally-intended direction with Eddie taking Gwen hostage, it would've shown Eddie go from a cocky egotist obsessed with a pretty girl to a creepy, clingy stalker. Then he'd finally become a psychopath willing to threaten his ex-'girlfriend's' life to get back at her and Peter.
44	** Adding credence to this interpretation, the film shows some warning signs of Eddie's narcissism leading to a dangerous place. Eddie shows Gwen no empathy during the crane accident in his first scene, as taking photos of her in peril and sucking up to her dad are his priorities. After one "amazing, amazing night" together, Eddie is entirely head-over-heels for Gwen and obsessed with her, already planning to marry her, likely to boost his status due to her beauty, wealth, and father's job and influence. The look on Eddie's face after Gwen's "We had a coffee, Eddie." line is the textbook expression for someone arrogant hearing something they didn't want to hear, which would potentially lead to a narcissist becoming violent. After Jameson fires him, Eddie sees Gwen going out with Peter and, PlayingTheVictimCard and [[NeverMyFault still not owning up to his actions]], asks God to kill Peter for ruining his life.
45	*** Given the additional info from the novelization, the film just scratched the surface with Eddie; the novel shows Eddie as a blatant StalkerWithACrush who concocted a relationship with Gwen in his mind, and he becomes mentally unstable when it doesn't play out as he imagined and gets knocked off his false pedestal. They first met at a Starbucks near Columbia University, and according to Gwen, Eddie may have staked out the place afterward since their following interactions may have been planned on his part. They spent more time together before Gwen let Eddie bring her home one night. According to Eddie, Gwen let him kiss her goodnight; however, Gwen says it was a small kind gesture, and she kissed him back but only on impulse, with it not meaning much to her. Then Gwen noticed Eddie's behavior become obsessive after that night. During the crane incident, Eddie hopes for a pretty woman to die since [[IfItBleedsItLeads attractive women in distress make more memorable, career-making photos]]. After learning Gwen is in peril, Eddie reconsiders taking pictures but resumes; he thinks Gwen will die mercifully before hitting the ground and wants to get her final moments on film to "immortalize" her as some twisted, loving gesture. Later, just before the City Hall ceremony, Eddie 'playfully' ambushes Gwen in the crowd, snapping pictures of her to her displeasure. Eddie doctors the Spider-Man photos to get back at him for kissing Gwen. After Eddie gets fired, Gwen 'dumps' him, and he goes to her house with her favorite candy to win her back, acting as if nothing's wrong. As Gwen repeatedly scolds Eddie and tells him to get lost, Eddie claims Gwen told him she loved him, and she calls B.S. as she never said that. Eddie even alludes to spying on Gwen since he accuses her of talking to Peter about him behind his back. Eddie [[SanitySlippage falls apart at the seams]], escalating to latching onto Gwen's arm as she tries to free herself, making her father step in and threaten to arrest Eddie for him to back off.
46	** With the symbiote, it's easy to assume Eddie would have been much worse than Peter. Peter at least did stand out to some legitimate injustices he was having in his life, was still a hero (albeit dangerously balancing on the slippery slope), and [[JerkassRealization had a realization about what he has turned into]] and decided to get rid of the symbiote. Eddie never realizes his wrongdoings and is a complete villain attacking innocents; he is entitled and unable to accept he caused his undoing, and even after being ripped off the symbiote, he would rather get it back than save his life. Had his so-called relationship with Gwen kept going after he got the symbiote, [[DomesticAbuse it would've escalated into something much worse.]]
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Context Fridge / SpiderMan3