Line #20 BrokenBase/TalesSeries


1	With a longstanding franchise as the ''Tales'' games, the base is bound to be broken. Be aware of potentially unmarked ''Spoilers''!
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4	[[folder:General]]
5	* Whether games created by Team Symphonia [[note]]Tales of Symphonia, Tales of the Abyss, Tales of Vesperia[[/note]] or by Team Destiny [[note]]Tales of Destiny and R, Tales of Destiny 2, Tales of Rebirth, Tales of Innocence, Tales of Hearts, Tales of Graces[[/note]] are the better ones. Fans of the Symphonia games prefer the TP and base + altered artes system and the emphasis on more free movement during combat, while Destiny fans prefer the CC chain system allowing for a great deal of combo creativity and less emphasis on movement and dodging. Hardcore fans of either base are unlikely to admit liking games created by the other teams, whereas people who like all the games tend to be ignored. And heaven forbid you if you say ''VideoGame/TalesOfLegendia'', which was developed by ''neither'', is your favorite. This debate began to cool as the teams were merged together as of ''Tales of Xillia'' and later ''Arise'' was developed completely independently of the old guard.
6	* The base has begun to break at how the games in the ''Tales'' series consistently start off as a ClicheStorm but become a DeconstructorFleet. Some think the games still have good stories and characters, others think that [[ItsTheSameNowItSucks the Deconstruction formula has become stale]] and has lost its appeal. Others simply think that [[OnceOriginalNowCommon its formerly fresh premise of deconstructing cliches has lost its novelty due to]] [[FollowTheLeader how many other games have similarly become deconstructor fleets]].
7	* More recently, there has been a been a bit of a divide between fans who like the [[DarkerAndEdgier darker stories]] and [[BittersweetEnding bittersweet]] or even [[DownerEnding downer]] endings that more recent games have had, and fans who feel that the series is getting [[TooBleakStoppedCaring too dark to be enjoyable]] and that the unhappy endings make the stories feel [[ShootTheShaggyDog pointless]], and would prefer the series go back to having lighter stories and unambiguously happy endings.
8	* Due to just how many different versions of the Linear Motion Battle system there has been, there are of course a lot of debates over which ones were better:
9	** Should the series have even "gone" 3D? Despite the Tales Series being one of the "best" transitions from 2D to 3D, some feel that the game series should have remained on a 2D plane since being able to flank enemies was cheap, while others feel that ''Destiny'' and later ''Hearts'''s battle systems focusing on aerial combat was a little too [[GameBreaker cheap]].
10	** Finally, Berseria and Arise not even ''featuring'' any "lines" and just letting the playable characters just run all over.
11	** Whether or not it should reward offensive of defensive play - some games make it fairly easy to punching-bag enemies, while others make comboing difficult.
12	* Should the series use "HP&TP" (Usually seen in Symphonia), or "HP&Capacity core/gauge" (Usually seen in Destiny titles)? The nature of this broken base isn't so much that people like one and hate the other so much as debate "Which of these should be the norm?" Some feel the HP&TP system works because it would allow players to look at values to string together attacks and spells, while others like capacity core/gauge better because of the "Hit-and-run" style of play. Of course, ''VideoGame/TalesOfArise'' TookAThirdOption and used TP ''and'' an "Arte gauge" system.
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16	[[folder:Original Titles]]
17	!! ''VideoGame/TalesOfLegendia''
18	* Is this a worthy Tales Game that ''should'' get a remake? Or should it stay as an OddballInTheSeries (Due to being developed by ''neither'' Team Destiny ''or'' Team Symphonia) and never be moved on?
19
20	!! ''VideoGame/TalesOfTheAbyss''
21	* This game was overall ''the'' most polarizing game of the franchise when it initially released. Depending on how you feel about the story, it's either wildly melodramatic and overblown, or it's the high-water mark of the entire ''Tales'' franchise and one of the highest in the entire EasternRPG genre, and relatedly, either a game its successors learned a lot from to improve themselves, or a game which its successors have never really managed to properly follow up on or surpass. Not many people take a middle ground. It's worth noting that in Japan, it was voted the most popular game in the ''Tales'' series in a Famitsu poll.
22
23	!! ''VideoGame/TalesOfGraces''
24	* The base had another fracture when ''[[UpdatedRerelease Tales Of Graces F]]'' was announced, mostly because owners of the Wii version essentially purchased a beta version. In all honesty, people didn't know ''what'' to think, since normally, it's the "Beta version" that gets released overseas. Many people were simply happy just that they got the game period, among those are people who cite that the original version on the Wii was filled with so many {{Game Breaking Bug}}s that game owners had to mail in their copies to fix them. Combined with the [=PS3=] having more of a presence in the JRPG genre, it was probably for the best that the rest of the world got F instead.
25	* The handling of [[OfficialCouple Asbel and Cheria]]'s romantic relationship. In the main arc, Cheria's unrequited feelings for Asbel made her eventually decide to move on and do things on her own, knowing that Asbel was too [[ObliviousToLove oblivious]] to ever realize things. Some people thought this was a lovely way to show their budding romance, leaving it subtle and not taking over the plot, with most romantic moments being relegated to optional side-quests; others thought this left their random [[LastMinuteHookUp hook up]] in the final cutscene [[spoiler: that depicted one of their descendants being read to by an adult Sophie]] to be [[AssPull out of nowhere]]. Come the Lineage and Legacies arc, Asbel now stutters and blushes around Cheria and the entire party has nothing better to do than to tease the two about their [[CannotSpitItOut obvious feelings]]. Contrary to appeasing the fans, this led both camps to discuss now whether it was necessary, saying that this arc was now ''too'' in-your-face about their romance and ruining the subtlely in the main arc and others felt it was finally showing what they had expected to see before.
26	* The suddenly sprouting romance between Hubert and Pascal, again in the Lineage and Legacies arc. Similar to Asbel's ramped up acting around Cheria, Hubert now stutters around Pascal and generally acts like a typical {{Tsundere}} around the person they like. And the ending has Pascal's sister basically tell Hubert that he has her on his hands now. One part of the fanbase thought it was a quirky, funny romance compared to the sappy one Asbel and Cheria had in this arc, others felt like it was an AssPull of unnecessarily shoving two characters, who had no actual romantic relation in the main arc, together.
27
28	!! ''VideoGame/TalesOfVesperia''
29	* Arguably one for the whole franchise. Some people declare it the best game in the series and think the plot and gameplay are near-perfect. Others utterly despise its story for not focusing on CharacterDevelopment as much as past titles and savagely despise how the vigilante arc is shunted to one side to make room for a global warming plot.
30	** The [=PS3=] version for being launched a year later, for having some additional content (although the story still the same) and for [[NoExportForYou not being released outside of Japan]] (the only Tales of of 7th generation for [=PS3=] to stay at Japan). Also, datamining revealed that some [=PS3=]-only features are on the 360 version's disc. Thankfully the 10th anniversary ''Definite Edition'' will include all [=PS3=] contents and be available worldwide for all platforms.
31
32	!! ''VideoGame/TalesOfHearts''
33	* The quality of the western localization. The state of the Platform/PSVita market meant that the ''only'' feasible way to release the game in the west was to do it on a reduced budget, hence the lack of dub. Yet many other decisions around the localisation have also raised eyebrows, from the [[BlindIdiotTranslation quality of the translation]], to the [[DubNameChange character names]] (which sound particularly odd given the unchanged vocal track), to the choice of release date (which will have the game competing against a number of much more high-profile releases). Generally, fans have fallen into three categories: Those who are overall happy with the release (some of whom actually prefer the sub-only approach), those who have issues with one or more aspect of the release but still think it's better than nothing, and those who feel like they didn't put any effort into it.
34	* The change from 2D to 3D. Some feel that the game lost its identity and plays more like a ''Symphonia'' game, when it was a "Team Destiny" production. Others at least appreciate that it performs significantly better on the Vita than it did on the DS, where it was prone to chugging even ''with'' only a party of three. Additionally, others have pointed out that it at least ''tries'' to maintain the aerial combat style in a ''Vesperia'' fashion, since the DS version could be ''easily'' cheaped by spamming items.
35
36	!! ''VideoGame/TalesOfXillia''
37	* [[DullSurprise Milla's]] English voice acting. Several fans and reviewers labelled it as genuinely poor, while others found it to be an in-character quirk of hers, including the apparently purposefully-done lisp in her voice which is not natural to Minae Noji's normal speaking voice. There are also those who thought her voice acting started off fairly poorly, but improved as the game went on. [[TakeAThirdOption Then there are those]] who simply don't like Minae Noji's voice acting, because she is not as good as Miyuki Sawashiro - or because she simply isn't Miyuki Sawashiro.
38	* Jude and Milla's relationship in the game. It's disliked because it leads to Jude ignoring [[ChildhoodFriendRomance Leia]]; neither he or Milla openly admitting their feelings for each other or the fact that it's implied that EveryoneCanSeeIt along with the Shipteasing, that doesn't actually happen. Others enjoyed it, because it was a romance that did not take over majority of the plot or was shoved into the player's face. The relationship is especially breaking the base in the English version, as there's an apparent lack of chemistry between the two voice actors (Sam Riegel and Minae Noji) and translation issues that left some of the dialogue lacking the more romantic or emotional notion in Japanese. Add this to the higher level of disdain for Milla already...
39	* The high amount of [[CharacterShilling shilling]] Milla gets throughout the game. Several players [[ShowDontTell found it annoying to listen to]] and [[InformedAttribute not deserved]], others didn't mind and felt it was appropriate for the party to react to Milla, who is a GodInHumanForm, after all.
40
41	!! ''VideoGame/TalesOfXillia2''
42	* The fans of this game can be separated into three bases: One part is quite happy that Namco decided to go [[DarkerAndEdgier darker]] with the game, compared to some [[VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia of]] [[VideoGame/TalesOfGraces the]] [[VideoGame/TalesOfVesperia previous]] [[VideoGame/TalesOfXillia games]]. The second part is the opposite, thinking Namco went ''too'' far with going dark and caused TooBleakStoppedCaring. And the third considers the game to be an unnecessary stand-alone game that is filled with things that ''should'' have been in the previous game, making it feel like overpriced [=DLC=].
43	* The translation altering certain interactions, especially between Jude and Alternate Milla. In the Japanese version, Jude refers to her as 'Milla-[[UsefulNotes/JapaneseHonorifics san]]' which indicates a subtle, but still distinct barrier between the two and how Jude does not consider Alternate Milla as close as he did with regular Milla. The honorific was dropped in the English version, naturally, but Jude also became much more easily accepting of Alternate Milla.
44	* Milla's voice acting, again, now separated into Alternate Milla and regular Milla's work. Alternate Milla is more open, [[{{Tsundere}} brash]] and filled with emotions, which some disliked as it felt so different from how Milla originally was, despite [[MisaimedFandom Alternate Milla not being the same Milla]]. Others enjoyed it, as it showed what Minae Noji could do. Regular Milla lost her forced lisp, which some thought was a good change and others disliked it, thinking it took a unique characteristic from her. Then there is a third camp that prefers Alternate Milla's voice to regular Milla's, due to the aforementioned increase of emotions. Regular Milla still retains a rather [[TheStoic stoic]] way of talking in comparison.
45
46	!! ''VideoGame/TalesOfZestiria''
47	* Does the plot match the effectiveness of previous Tales games or is it just a stereotypical RPG with the Tales logo slapped on it? The skits and party interaction says the former, while the LighterAndSofter plot elements, predictable questline, and forgettable villains suggest the latter.
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49
50	!! ''VideoGame/TalesOfBerseria''
51	* Not even a week after the game's announcement, the fandom started fighting over Velvet's design. Some think she looks to be a [[ActionGirl badass female heroine]] unashamed to show some skin. Others say it's a creepy [[MsFanservice oversexualized]] attempt at [[WinBackTheCrowd winning back the crowd]] after ''VideoGame/TalesOfZestiria'' received so many complaints over [[{{DLC}} how they handled Alisha]] and Rose. Also, there had been fighting over whether Velvet's design is an edgy new direction for female characters considering most other designs depict female characters in bright or cute outfits or a lazy rehash of [[VideoGame/TalesOfDestiny the Gilchrist/Katrea]] siblings or a [[VideoGame/TalesOfXillia dark-haired Milla Maxwell]] with a terrible impractical outfit reminiscent of a NinetiesAntiHero.
52	* The ending is showing signs of becoming this. While a BittersweetEnding is nothing new to the ''Tales'' series, several fans have expressed how they're sick of them and just want a truly happy ending for once. The biggest point of contention is [[spoiler:Velvet's final fate. Is it a fitting end to her tale and a symbolic redemption of all the morally dubious actions she's committed throughout the story, or a needlessly cruel act of spite that goes out of its way to shoot down the notion that she may one day return like [[VideoGame/TalesOfTheAbyss Luke]] or [[VideoGame/TalesOfZestiria Sorey]] did? Others believe that after the sheer hell she's endured, Velvet deserved a happy ending instead of what she got.]]
53
54	!! ''VideoGame/TalesOfArise''
55	* The scene of Law stopping Rinwell from attacking Almeidrea in blind hatred has become the most divisive moment in the Tales fandom's recent memory. One side of the argument defends Law's actions, understanding that Rinwell wasn't in a good emotional and mental state, and that if she had struck Almeidrea she would end up emotionally empty afterwards, and could even end up becoming twisted by her anger and hatred like what happened with Dedyme. The opposite side believes that Law was in the wrong for stopping Rinwell, accusing him of being a hypocrite because he killed Ganabelt and avenged his father but wouldn't allow Rinwell the chance to avenge her clan by killing Almeidrea while also projecting his own issues onto her, and failing to consider that Rinwell's situation is very different from his own. Overall reception is divided between three camps: those who approve of the scene and its message, those who disagree with the whole thing, and those who at least agree with the intent of the message but not its execution.
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58	[[folder:Crossover Titles]]
59	!!''VideoGame/TalesOfLink''
60	* The fact that the game heavily promotes the newer games like ''Zestiria'' and ''Berseria'' attracted the ire of several fans who derided the game as a glorified ad campaign for those games, and think that using the game that way will lead to resentment from fans of older ''Tales'' games that get ignored in favor of newer games. However, there are also others who see it as natural that Bandai would want to use the game to advertise the newer games in comparison to games that were released for older game systems.
61	* Characters like [[VideoGame/TalesOfVesperia Yuri]] and [[VideoGame/TalesOfDestiny Leon]] tend to get more units than other characters due to PopularityPower also has the fandom split on whether or not the game could be used to garner more attention to lesser known games and characters in the franchise.
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Context BrokenBase / TalesSeries