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* FanonDiscontinuity: ''Changing Breeds'' is hated for numerous reasons -- the writing quality is poor, with rules that are [[GameBreaker easily exploitable]] or overpowered, and generally of lower quality compared to earlier splatbooks with similar rules, such as ''War Against the Pure''. Furthermore, the book's fluff presents a ''very'' hamhanded take on a man vs. nature motif, outright ''encouraging'' players to be kill-happy sociopaths dedicated to the destruction of humanity and/or human civilisation. More than one negative reviewer has compared it to the worst elements of ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse''. It has also [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking been accused of pandering to the]] UsefulNotes/FurryFandom.
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* FanonDiscontinuity: ''Changing Breeds'' is hated for numerous reasons -- the writing quality is poor, with rules that are [[GameBreaker easily exploitable]] or overpowered, and generally of lower quality compared to earlier splatbooks with similar rules, such as ''War Against the Pure''. Furthermore, the book's fluff presents a ''very'' hamhanded take on a man vs. nature motif, outright ''encouraging'' players to be kill-happy sociopaths dedicated to the destruction of humanity and/or human civilisation.civilisation . More than one negative reviewer has compared it to the worst elements of ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse''. It has also [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking been accused of pandering to the]] UsefulNotes/FurryFandom.
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* UnfortunateImplications: A rare example pointed out by the ''authors''. The Unihar -- murderous [[FetusTerrible Fetus Terribles]] created when two werewolves had sex -- were always a slightly uncomfortable idea that was rarely explored even in official work. The first edition Chronicler's Guide, however, suggested that it might be actively queerphobic, with the authors of second edition apparently agreeing and [[CanonDiscontinuity dropping the whole concept]].
-->You knew you were different your whole life. You never quite fit in. You never felt right in your skin. Maybe your family knew you were different, but they probably didn’t tell you for fear they could be wrong. Then, one night after a violent catharsis, your whole life changes and you really have no choice but to leave your old life behind and start over with a new group of friends in a whole new lifestyle. [[HaveYouTriedNotBeingAMonster Sound familiar?]] If it ''does'', now take a moment to consider, if it is a metaphor, as a Storyteller, what’s the impact of saying that Forsaken should be ashamed of sex between each other? That it’s a violation of their spiritual vows? That any attempt to have children will result in a terrible monster instead of a healthy child just like any normal couple?
-->You knew you were different your whole life. You never quite fit in. You never felt right in your skin. Maybe your family knew you were different, but they probably didn’t tell you for fear they could be wrong. Then, one night after a violent catharsis, your whole life changes and you really have no choice but to leave your old life behind and start over with a new group of friends in a whole new lifestyle. [[HaveYouTriedNotBeingAMonster Sound familiar?]] If it ''does'', now take a moment to consider, if it is a metaphor, as a Storyteller, what’s the impact of saying that Forsaken should be ashamed of sex between each other? That it’s a violation of their spiritual vows? That any attempt to have children will result in a terrible monster instead of a healthy child just like any normal couple?
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* AuthorsSavingThrow:
** When compared to ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse''; ''Apocalypse'' was infamously decried for having most of the protagonist werewolf tribes be, by human standards, [[DesignatedHero incredibly unlikable due to being corrupt, racist, genocidal supremacists and fundamentalists whose actions were making things even worse for the whole planet]] even though their role was to ''fix'' it (the [[TokenEvilTeammate Red Talons]] being [[KillAllHumans possibly the worst offender]]). Tribes like this are ''still'' present in ''Forsaken''... as the Pure, who are firmly established as villains, while the playable tribes, the titular Forsaken, are characterized as being more likable and actually trying to improve things despite still having some degree of BlueAndOrangeMorality.
** 1E had Werewolves being forbidden to mate with each other and having to rely on humans to breed, with the offspring of two Uratha resulting in a FoetusTerrible known as Unihar, which would kill its mother by bursting out of the womb and would take off to the Spirit World before returning to wreak havoc on its parents- a concept that was seen as uncomfortable and sexist by many, the writers included. Come 2E, Unihar were made CanonDiscontinuity, and the rule stating Werewolves had to breed with humans only was retooled to instead be about the importance of socializing with humans to maintain the balance between your spirit and flesh sides.
** When compared to ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse''; ''Apocalypse'' was infamously decried for having most of the protagonist werewolf tribes be, by human standards, [[DesignatedHero incredibly unlikable due to being corrupt, racist, genocidal supremacists and fundamentalists whose actions were making things even worse for the whole planet]] even though their role was to ''fix'' it (the [[TokenEvilTeammate Red Talons]] being [[KillAllHumans possibly the worst offender]]). Tribes like this are ''still'' present in ''Forsaken''... as the Pure, who are firmly established as villains, while the playable tribes, the titular Forsaken, are characterized as being more likable and actually trying to improve things despite still having some degree of BlueAndOrangeMorality.
** 1E had Werewolves being forbidden to mate with each other and having to rely on humans to breed, with the offspring of two Uratha resulting in a FoetusTerrible known as Unihar, which would kill its mother by bursting out of the womb and would take off to the Spirit World before returning to wreak havoc on its parents- a concept that was seen as uncomfortable and sexist by many, the writers included. Come 2E, Unihar were made CanonDiscontinuity, and the rule stating Werewolves had to breed with humans only was retooled to instead be about the importance of socializing with humans to maintain the balance between your spirit and flesh sides.
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* UnfortunateImplications: The whole concept of Unihar in 1E, something [[http://theonyxpath.com/ephemera-werewolf-the-forsaken/ the writers themselves acknowledged when removing it for 2E]]:
->"They have some really unfortunate implications that we want to move away from — penalising sex with the “wrong” people, casting Wolf-Blooded as breeding stock, punishing female characters far more than male, and a whole mess of problems around their impact on people who have lost pregnancies. I want to stress that nobody on the original design team intended any of this, but as we’re older and wiser we decided to drop a highly problematic element of the game. Ultimately, we removed Unihar because removing them removes a bunch of unintentional messages that people found very off-putting. They won’t be coming back."
->"They have some really unfortunate implications that we want to move away from — penalising sex with the “wrong” people, casting Wolf-Blooded as breeding stock, punishing female characters far more than male, and a whole mess of problems around their impact on people who have lost pregnancies. I want to stress that nobody on the original design team intended any of this, but as we’re older and wiser we decided to drop a highly problematic element of the game. Ultimately, we removed Unihar because removing them removes a bunch of unintentional messages that people found very off-putting. They won’t be coming back."
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** When compared to ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse''; ''Apocalypse'' was infamously decried for having most of the protagonist werewolf tribes be, by human standards, [[DesignatedHero incredibly unlikable due to being corrupt racist genocidal supremacists and fundamentalists whose actions were making things even worse for the whole planet]] even though their role was to ''fix'' it (the Red Talons being possibly the worst offender). Tribes like this are ''still'' present in ''Forsaken''... as the Pure, who are firmly established as villains, while the playable tribes, the titular Forsaken, are characterized as being more likable and actually trying to improve things despite still having some degree of BlueAndOrangeMorality.
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** When compared to ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse''; ''Apocalypse'' was infamously decried for having most of the protagonist werewolf tribes be, by human standards, [[DesignatedHero incredibly unlikable due to being corrupt racist corrupt, racist, genocidal supremacists and fundamentalists whose actions were making things even worse for the whole planet]] even though their role was to ''fix'' it (the [[TokenEvilTeammate Red Talons Talons]] being [[KillAllHumans possibly the worst offender).offender]]). Tribes like this are ''still'' present in ''Forsaken''... as the Pure, who are firmly established as villains, while the playable tribes, the titular Forsaken, are characterized as being more likable and actually trying to improve things despite still having some degree of BlueAndOrangeMorality.
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** And then, there's the Unclean, the were-roaches. As said in the BigCreepyCrawlies example, they're victims of TheVirus that follows them around through no fault of their own, and add they can't actually live among humans anymore-light hurts their eyes. The book says that elders eventually become estranged from their humanity, but after what they go through, it seems like the ones who ''[[DrivenToSuicide survive]]'' to that age used the logic of "You know what? [[JerkassWoobie Fuck you]], [[MaddenIntoMisanthropy I]] ''[[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds am]]'' [[ThenLetBeEvil a monster]]!"
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** And then, there's the Unclean, the were-roaches. As said in the BigCreepyCrawlies example, they're victims of TheVirus that follows them around through no fault of their own, and add they can't actually live among humans anymore-light hurts their eyes. The book says that elders eventually become estranged from their humanity, but after what they go through, it seems like the ones who ''[[DrivenToSuicide survive]]'' to that age used the logic of "You know what? [[JerkassWoobie Fuck you]], [[MaddenIntoMisanthropy I]] ''[[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds am]]'' [[ThenLetBeEvil [[ThenLetMeBeEvil a monster]]!"
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Better trope, since the roaches retain their minds.
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** And then, there's the Unclean, the were-roaches. As said in the BigCreepyCrawlies example, they're victims of TheVirus that follows them around through no fault of their own, and add they can't actually live among humans anymore-light hurts their eyes. The book says that elders eventually become estranged from their humanity, but after what they go through, it seems like the ones who ''[[DrivenToSuicide survive]]'' to that age used the logic of "You know what? [[JerkassWoobie Fuck you]], [[MaddenIntoMisanthropy I]] ''[[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds am]]'' [[TragicMonster a monster]]!"
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** And then, there's the Unclean, the were-roaches. As said in the BigCreepyCrawlies example, they're victims of TheVirus that follows them around through no fault of their own, and add they can't actually live among humans anymore-light hurts their eyes. The book says that elders eventually become estranged from their humanity, but after what they go through, it seems like the ones who ''[[DrivenToSuicide survive]]'' to that age used the logic of "You know what? [[JerkassWoobie Fuck you]], [[MaddenIntoMisanthropy I]] ''[[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds am]]'' [[TragicMonster [[ThenLetBeEvil a monster]]!"
