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* {{Misblamed}}: {{Moveset Clone}}s are often blamed for "taking up roster space" that such and such more popular character could have used to be in the game. In actuality Moveset Clones are one of the very last things to be added; if a character you like wasn't included, it was decided long before the moveset clones were drafted up. Sakurai compared complaining about clones to going to a restaurant for a steak and being presented with a small cake for free, only to complain that you weren't given a second steak.

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* {{Misblamed}}: {{Moveset Clone}}s are often blamed for "taking up "wasting roster space" that such and such more popular character could have used to be in the game. In actuality Moveset Clones are one meant to be seen as small bonuses on top of the very last things to be added; base roster made prior; if a character you like wasn't included, it was decided long before the moveset clones were drafted up. Sakurai compared complaining about clones to going to a restaurant for a steak and being presented with a small cake for free, only to complain that you weren't given a second steak.


[=YMMV=] tropes for specific games:
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBros64 Super Smash Bros. 64]]
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBrosMelee Super Smash Bros. Melee]]
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBrosBrawl Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]
** [[YMMV/TheSubspaceEmissary The Subspace Emissary]]
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBrosForNintendo3DSWiiU Super Smash Bros. For [=3DS=] and Wii U]]
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBrosUltimate Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]


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[=YMMV=] YMMV tropes for specific games:
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBros64 Super Smash Bros. 64]]
YMMV/SuperSmashBros64
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBrosMelee Super Smash Bros. Melee]]
YMMV/SuperSmashBrosMelee
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBrosBrawl Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]
** [[YMMV/TheSubspaceEmissary The Subspace Emissary]]
YMMV/SuperSmashBrosBrawl
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBrosForNintendo3DSWiiU Super Smash Bros. For [=3DS=] and Wii U]]
YMMV/SuperSmashBrosForNintendo3DSWiiU
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBrosUltimate Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]

YMMV/SuperSmashBrosUltimate



** {{VideoGame/Bayonetta}} is often depicted as this towards [[VideoGame/KidIcarus Pit]] or [[VideoGame/Mother3 Lucas]] (the latter solely because his name pronounciation in Japanese is the same as Bayonetta's ImpliedLoveInterest, Luka).

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** {{VideoGame/Bayonetta}} is often depicted as this towards [[VideoGame/KidIcarus Pit]] or [[VideoGame/Mother3 Lucas]] (the latter solely because his name pronounciation pronunciation in Japanese is the same as Bayonetta's ImpliedLoveInterest, Luka).


** {{VideoGame/Bayonetta}} is often depicted as this towards [[VideoGame/KidIcarus Pit]].

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** {{VideoGame/Bayonetta}} is often depicted as this towards [[VideoGame/KidIcarus Pit]].Pit]] or [[VideoGame/Mother3 Lucas]] (the latter solely because his name pronounciation in Japanese is the same as Bayonetta's ImpliedLoveInterest, Luka).


** It seems that any character who misses a new entry ends up becoming this by default, due to the implications that they simply weren't demanded enough by the fans to avoid the cut and thus are frequently depicted as obsessively waiting for an invitation that will never come or being barred from entering a metaphorical "Smash party". This includes the Melee clones that missed ''Brawl'' (Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu and Roy), the aforementioned Mewtwo, and the Snake/Ice Climbers/Wolf, who all missed ''[=SSB4=]''.

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** It seems that any character who misses a new entry ends up becoming this by default, due to the implications that they simply weren't demanded enough by the fans to avoid the cut cut, and thus are frequently depicted as obsessively waiting for an invitation that will never come or being barred from entering a metaphorical "Smash party". This includes the Melee clones that missed ''Brawl'' (Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu and Roy), the aforementioned Mewtwo, and the Snake/Ice Climbers/Wolf, Climbers/Wolf trio (quartet?), who all missed ''[=SSB4=]''.


** It seems that any character who misses a new entry ends up becoming this by default, due to the implications that they simply weren't demanded enough by the fans to avoid the cut and thus are frequently depicted as obsessively waiting for an invitation that will never come up or being barred from entering a metaphorical "Smash place". This includes the Melee clones that missed ''Brawl'' (Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu and Roy), the aforementioned Mewtwo, and the Snake/Ice Climbers/Wolf, who all missed ''SSB4''.

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** It seems that any character who misses a new entry ends up becoming this by default, due to the implications that they simply weren't demanded enough by the fans to avoid the cut and thus are frequently depicted as obsessively waiting for an invitation that will never come up or being barred from entering a metaphorical "Smash place".party". This includes the Melee clones that missed ''Brawl'' (Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu and Roy), the aforementioned Mewtwo, and the Snake/Ice Climbers/Wolf, who all missed ''SSB4''.''[=SSB4=]''.

Added DiffLines:

** It seems that any character who misses a new entry ends up becoming this by default, due to the implications that they simply weren't demanded enough by the fans to avoid the cut and thus are frequently depicted as obsessively waiting for an invitation that will never come up or being barred from entering a metaphorical "Smash place". This includes the Melee clones that missed ''Brawl'' (Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu and Roy), the aforementioned Mewtwo, and the Snake/Ice Climbers/Wolf, who all missed ''SSB4''.

Added DiffLines:

** ''Wii U'' and ''Ultimate'' feature stages from the original Nintendo 64 title, which were conspicuously absent from ''Brawl''. However, it's a straight port, with no attempt to graphically improve the stages (other than a higher video resolution), making the high-definition fighters and items look out-of-place against the bare polygonal shapes and blurry textures. This is especially annoying considering the gorgeous remakes of these stages featured in ''VideoGame/ProjectM'', including [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0lSBbOzftA Hyrule Castle]] and [[http://youtu.be/rcJHZCuaG84?t=1m20s Peach's Castle]]. Adding fuel to the fire, even though ''Ultimate'' gives most stages from ''Melee'', ''Brawl'', and ''3DS'' updated appearances a la ''VideoGame/MarioKart8'', the Nintendo 64 stages ''still'' look more or less the same as they did 20 years ago.


** Following the Inkling/Switch game teaser, fans noticed an amusing progression with a few introduction trailers since ''Smash 4'': [[VideoGame/AnimalCrossing Villager]] was peacefully invited by letter, VideoGame/DuckHunt joined in the fight when all the veterans showed up in their game for a challenge, but the [[VideoGame/{{Splatoon}} Inklings]] were approached with the fighters [[HolyShitQuotient framed in darkness in front of a ridiculously ominous and dramatic Smash logo on fire]]. Cue interpretations that ''Smash''[='=]s cast has been forcing new franchises to join the fight, and have been slowly resorting to [[SerialEscalation increasingly violent methods of coercion.]] Or, alternately, following Link’s AlternateCharacterInterpretation from ''[[YMMV/TheLegendOfZeldaBreathOfTheWild Breath of the Wild]]'', that [[http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1350750-super-smash-brothers Mario was aiming for a friendly invitation]] and [[http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1350080-super-smash-brothers Link set the logo on fire behind his back.]]



** ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' for Nintendo Switch has included quite a few to mitigate criticisms directed at past games.
*** The game includes ''every'' character ever included in a past ''Smash'' game, including third party characters. Now no one can complain that their favorite character from a past game has been removed. Unfortunately, Sakurai later stated that ''Ultimate'' will probably be the last entry in the series that does this, because it was only possible due to very specific circumstances.
*** The trailer reveals all the returning characters in a very quick fashion, rather than revealing them as the months go by, calming a ''lot'' of the uncertainty of who was getting cut or who's returning, and saving new character reveals for later.
*** At long last, ''Ridley'' is finally a playable character.
*** Quality-of-life additions such as faster gameplay and mechanics from ''Melee'' such as directional air-dodging makes the game more competitive than its immediate predecessor.
*** Sakurai assured players that the starting roster will be small and that the rest of the characters will have to be unlocked through meaningful progress through the game, unlike Wii U and 3DS where most of the characters were unlocked by default with the remaining ones being available through quite paltry requirements. How small? ''Only the original 12 fighters'' will be the default roster, resulting in over 50 unlockable ones. Definitely a saving throw for players who enjoy exploring the single-player aspects of the game, but probably not so much for those looking to jump right into the multiplayer and ignore those other features.
*** Many Ganondorf fans disliked how he was portrayed in the previous games, mainly for his similar moveset of Captain Falcon and his design in ''Wii U''. His design has been changed to be his iconic ''Ocarina of Time'' look and he's been decloned even more, and his smash attacks now include his sword as well as his Final Smash being Ganon from ''Ocarina of Time''. However, some fans still see this as a half-measure as Ganon is still not truly unique -Most of his moveset is still copied from Captain Falcon, and even his new sword moves are just ripped from Ike and Cloud rather than made specifically for him.
*** Similarly to Ganondorf, many Wario fans took issue with how his signature Shoulder Bash was replaced with a generic backhand punch as his Forward Smash in ''3DS/Wii U''. ''Ultimate'' corrects this by moving the Shoulder Bash to being his Dash Attack instead, which many find is more fitting.
*** David Hayter will be reprising his role as Solid Snake, to the relief of many fans who were upset about his being replaced for ''Metal Gear Solid V''.
*** While the Pokémon Trainer returned (now along with a female trainer option), the [[ScrappyMechanic widely-loathed]] stamina and type-effectiveness mechanics that is [[TierInducedScrappy widely believed to have ruined the viability of Squirtle, Charizard, and especially Ivysaur]] in ''Brawl'' did ''not'', making the three Pokémon much more enjoyable to play as and removing any penalty involved for preferring one Pokémon over the other two.
*** Omega Stages in the fourth game was an attempt at this, allowing the removal of stage hazards but at the price of stages becoming a completely flat surface like Final Destination. This was not received warmly by the Competitive Community, who largely preferred playing on other stages anyway. In ''Ultimate'', Sakurai tweaked this customization to now also allow "Q Stages", which mimics the layout of the more popular Battlefield stage.
*** Stage hazards now have the option to be removed without the need to change the layout of the stage.
* AwesomeArt:
** If the Wii U and [=3DS=] games are beautiful to look at, then ''Ultimate'' manages to kick it up a notch or two.
** The official art for ''Ultimate'' manages to take it [[https://www.pidgi.net/wiki/images/5/5c/Fighters_-_Super_Smash_Bros_Ultimate.jpg to a whole new level]], with beautiful paintings of just about every single character who's ever appeared in ''Smash Bros.''. The fact that this the picture is updated when a new character is revealed is also impressive.



* CharacterRerailment: The ''Smash'' games (and even [[{{Franchise/Metroid}} his home series]] to an extent) seemingly forgot that Ridley was established as sadistic and FauxAffablyEvil by the [[Manga/MetroidManga 2002 Manga]], instead reducing him to a screeching beast. ''Ultimate'' brings back that personality [[ComedicSociopathy with gusto]], with special mention going to the scene in his trailer where he [[EvilHasABadSenseOfHumor plays with Mario's hat]] after disposing of him.
** There is also Mario, whom fans have been hoping he'd obtain his Canon Happy personality. Mario is still a bit serious, but actually smiles and seems happy sometimes in ''Ultimate''.



* CounterpartComparison:
** Ganondorf in ''Smash'' is similar to [[Franchise/StreetFighter Akuma]], as a dark-skinned, black-clothed, red-haired, [[RatedMForManly extremely manly]] antagonistic MovesetClone of a well-known fistfighter in his respective series with [[CastingAShadow dark powers]].
** On a humorous note, the Smash Logo itself as it appeared in the 3/9/18 Direct has been jokingly compared to things like [[Manga/{{Berserk}} The Eclipse]] or [[VideoGame/DarkSouls the Darksign]] due to its ominous flaming appearance.

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* CounterpartComparison:
**
CounterpartComparison: Ganondorf in ''Smash'' is similar to [[Franchise/StreetFighter Akuma]], as a dark-skinned, black-clothed, red-haired, [[RatedMForManly extremely manly]] antagonistic MovesetClone of a well-known fistfighter in his respective series with [[CastingAShadow dark powers]].
** On a humorous note, the Smash Logo itself as it appeared in the 3/9/18 Direct has been jokingly compared to things like [[Manga/{{Berserk}} The Eclipse]] or [[VideoGame/DarkSouls the Darksign]] due to its ominous flaming appearance.
powers]].



** Ridley is a sadistic SpacePirate that looks like a pterodactyl-dragon with a [[{{Franchise/Alien}} Xenomorph]]-like build, has unsettling corpse-like textures compared to his earlier appearances, a brutal fighting style, and is one of the darker villain characters made playable in the series. His introduction trailer even plays him up like a horror movie villain. He was also one of the most highly-requested characters [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff by the Western fandom]] for over a decade.



* CrossesTheLineTwice: Seeing Ridley [[ImpaledWithExtremePrejudice stab Megaman]] and [[NeckSnap break Mario's neck,]] accompanied by a SickeningCrunch, in his reveal trailer is pretty horrifying and sets up how big a threat he is. But to then have him twirl Mario's cap on his finger a la ''VideoGame/SuperMarioOdyssey'', it makes Ridley come off as [[RefugeInAudacity hilariously cruel]].



** After Waluigi was revealed as an [[AssistCharacter assist trophy]] in ''Ultimate'' for a [[RuleOfThree third time]], his fans immediately began speculating that, given how harsh his deconfirmation was, combined with [[TrollingCreator Sakurai]]'s habit of {{Troll}}ing and changing his mind on various aspects of the series, that Waluigi was somehow going to turn out to be a SecretCharacter in the game after all.



** Similarly, calling ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' a port of the Wii U iteration of the game has quickly become this among people who pay close attention to the mechanics of the game, given the numerous overhauls to the returning roster from the previous game (both major and minor), re-integration of characters who haven't been seen since ''Melee'' or ''Brawl'', tons of new gameplay mechanics that put the game closer to ''Melee'', and the changes in physics, the art style, and animation. While ''Ultimate'' plays more similarly to its predecessor than any of the other games, that does not make it a port.



* HeartwarmingInHindsight: A TearJerker fan video called [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fjRJyoielk "When Sakurai Loved Me"]] (a spoof of a song from ''WesternAnimation/ToyStory2''), had various characters lament being cut from the roster between ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' and between ''Brawl'' and ''3DS/Wii U'' (and, [[TheLastOfTheseIsNotLikeTheOthers in Ridley's case]], never being playable at all). Some of the characters (Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy) would return through DLC, softening the blow a little. But with ''Ultimate'', [[TheBusCameBack every single character returned]], and Ridley [[CueTheFlyingPigs was revealed as a newcomer]]. Turns out that Sakurai '''still''' loves these characters; he noted, explicitly, that including every single character in ''Ultimate'' was his #1 goal with the game.
* HolyShitQuotient:
** The announcement of the Switch game also inspired this reaction, not just the fact that it existed but also the way it was presented — similarly to prior trailers, it started as a showcase of the Inklings' abilities before the reveal of the Smash logo in the light of the Inkling Girl's eye as well as a collection of the series' veterans standing tall, making for an amazing BaitAndSwitch. Even more so when it was revealed that the game was targeting a release ''by the end of the year'', and was developed in complete secrecy — noteworthy, considering that previous titles in the series were subject to delays.
** The entire Nintendo direct focusing on ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' was one long hype train, starting with the confirmation that '''every''' fighter in the series would be returning (including Snake, who was initially believed to have been cut due to Hideo Kojima's messy breakup with Konami), the introduction of Daisy as an Echo Fighter, and ultimately culminating in Ridley, a character long thought to be too impractical to be playable in the game, becoming a fighter.



** Waluigi, similar to Chrom and Ridley, was often the source of ridicule due to be excluded from the roster, right down to being relegated to being an assist trophy in ''4.'' This ended up getting heightened after the E3 presentation for ''Ultimate'', because not only was Waluigi still stuck being an Assist Trophy but Daisy, who was also infamous for being snubbed, got PromotedToPlayable.
** [[VideoGame/Mother3 Duster]] became this to the MOTHER fans for Ultimate, as he's the only main party member from Earthbound and Mother 3 not shown in any capacity. [[note]]Paula & Poo are in Ness's Final Smash and Jeff is an Assist trophy. And Kumatora & Boney are in Lucas's Final Smash.[[/note]]



* {{Moe}}: Zelda's ''A Link Between Worlds'' redesign in ''Ultimate'' makes [[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Zelda-Smash-One.jpg her looks really expressive and adorable.]]



* NarmCharm:
** Ike's lines are poorly-delivered and very {{Narm}}y (his most famous line is "I fight for my friends" said in a very [[DullSurprise flat monotone]]), but just like Captain Falcon, his quotes reached [[MemeticMutation memetic]] status and made him into a popular character.
** Ganondorf's cape in ''Ultimate'' looks like an Arabian Rug, but it doesn't make his design anyless badass.

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* NarmCharm:
**
NarmCharm: Ike's lines are poorly-delivered and very {{Narm}}y (his most famous line is "I fight for my friends" said in a very [[DullSurprise flat monotone]]), but just like Captain Falcon, his quotes reached [[MemeticMutation memetic]] status and made him into a popular character.
** Ganondorf's cape in ''Ultimate'' looks like an Arabian Rug, but it doesn't make his design anyless badass.
character.



** Ultimate isn't the first fighting game to bring back every playable character from a previous installment, ''VideoGame/MortalKombatArmageddon'' did that 12 years ago and the TropeNamer for DreamMatchGame is ''VideoGame/TheKingOfFighters'', whose 1998 installment was subtitled ''Dream Match Never Ends'' and brought back several characters from previous KOF games, although it didn't have everyone until the ''Ultimate Match'' version in 2008.



* PanderingToTheBase: This seems to be the most significant push in ''Ultimate'''s marketing; It brings back features from ''Melee'' such as its form of air-dodging, adding "Q" stages (similar to the Omega stages, but with the layout of Battlefield instead), and allowing the player to disable Stage Hazards, to aid the tournament community. But the game also brings back ''every'' playable character from previous entries (some of whom were highly requested to return, but especially Snake and Wolf), and also includes Ridley, a character who many fans had long-requested in the game. It also changes certain characters in other ways, such as Ganondorf, whose moveset finally implements his sword, and Pokemon Trainer, whose [[ScrappyMechanic fatigue and type damage mechanics]] were removed in response to complaints about them.



** [[MovesetClone Echo Fighters]] in general got a huge boost in popularity after ''Ultimate'' was revealed to not treat them as their own completely separate characters, and spawned tons of fan demand to see characters such as [[VideoGame/EarthboundBeginnings Ninten,]] [[VideoGame/StreetFighter Ken Masters,]] and [[Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog Shadow the Hedgehog]] be playable.
** Zelda received a hefty increase in popularity in ''Ultimate'', due to a combination of some much-needed [[BalanceBuff gameplay improvements]], [[GenkiGirl vibrant personality]] (contrasting her [[EmotionlessGirl somewhat nondescript]] previous one), and a well-received design update.
** '''Pichu''', [[TierInducedScrappy of all characters]], was warmly welcomed back into ''Ultimate'' by a portion of the fandom, even though [[JokeCharacter the character's]] [[ScrappyMechanic hated self-damage mechanic]] still made a return. Surprisingly, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZD89yfBCyE its character video]] has significantly less dislikes than those of [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NLKrPYYQt0 Snake]], [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4PTxiq11Fk Zero Suit Samus]], and [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYe8HpzYebg Bayonetta]].



* TaintedByThePreview:
** Initial gameplay demonstrations from both demos and the 2018 Invitational were met with mixed opinions by veteran fans due to [[TheyChangedItSoItSucks adjustments to specific visuals and how launch physics works]] compared to ''Wii U/[=3DS=]''[[note]]In ''Wii U/[=3DS=]'', launching an opponent would cause them to sail out across their launch trajectory at even speed, slowly coming to a stop at the end of the launch arc. In ''Ultimate'', launched fighters now launch at an incredibly high velocity, then have their velocity rapidly drop off as they approached the end of their launch trajectory.[[/note]].
** Bayonetta still being as powerful in Ultimate as shown infamously [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR8TAwPWbYI here]] has been met with lots of boos with even Sakurai shaking his head. Even her character video has been getting dislikes because of it. [[AuthorsSavingThrow Fortunately]], Sakurai mentioned that there were bugs that needed to be fixed which heavily implies Bayonetta will be getting nerfed after that moment.



* WinBackTheCrowd:
** After trying to get ''Melee'' blocked from being streamed at EVO 2013 (which did '''not''' go over well with the gaming community in general [particularly because of Nintendo's notoriously strict protectiveness of their products], but the ''Smash'' community in particular who had fought tooth and nail to even ''get'' ''Melee'' added to the pool of competitive fighting games at EVO), many people feel that Nintendo hosting the very first ''Smash 4'' tournament during E3 2014, inviting well known ''Smash Bros.'' players such as Ken, [=HungryBox=], etc. as well as surprisingly supporting the very same game they tried to block a year prior during EVO 2014 is their way of apologizing for what they tried to do.
** ''Ultimate'' seems to be a further attempt at an olive branch to the Tournament crowd, bringing back a number of high-level moves from ''Melee'', and a few new tricks as well.

to:

* WinBackTheCrowd:
**
WinBackTheCrowd: After trying to get ''Melee'' blocked from being streamed at EVO 2013 (which did '''not''' go over well with the gaming community in general [particularly because of Nintendo's notoriously strict protectiveness of their products], but the ''Smash'' community in particular who had fought tooth and nail to even ''get'' ''Melee'' added to the pool of competitive fighting games at EVO), many people feel that Nintendo hosting the very first ''Smash 4'' tournament during E3 2014, inviting well known ''Smash Bros.'' players such as Ken, [=HungryBox=], etc. as well as surprisingly supporting the very same game they tried to block a year prior during EVO 2014 is their way of apologizing for what they tried to do.
** ''Ultimate'' seems to be a further attempt at an olive branch to the Tournament crowd, bringing back a number of high-level moves from ''Melee'', and a few new tricks as well.
do.


* ThatOneLevel:
** Game modes:
*** The "Cruel" multi-man matches in all the games from ''Melee'' onward. You're forced to fight against several relentless and powered-up AI opponents at once and you are very likely to lose within seconds.
** Stages:
*** Icicle Mountain in ''Melee'', for many. For starters, the stage isn't really much to look at, being a snowy mountain with lots of platforms. Second, the stage randomly moves at speeds ranging from a standstill to incredibly fast, meaning that quite a few characters are at a disadvantage when it comes to maneuvering around in time to keep up. Also, the stage will sometimes go the ''opposite'' direction without warning, meaning that, if you were at the very top/bottom of the stage, you could very well find yourself KO'd. The similar Rumble Falls in ''Brawl'' is slightly better as the platforms are predictable and the stage always moves up, but like Icicle Mountain, it frustratingly speeds up at completely random times (though it does have the courtesy to warn you first), again putting slower characters at a disadvantage who have a hard time keeping up. Not helping Rumble Falls' case is the one-hit KO spike that appears partway through the stage, as it can easily KO a player who isn't watching out for it.

to:

* ThatOneLevel:
** Game modes:
***
ThatOneLevel: The "Cruel" multi-man matches in all the games from ''Melee'' onward. You're forced to fight against several relentless and powered-up AI opponents at once and you are very likely to lose within seconds.
** Stages:
*** Icicle Mountain in ''Melee'', for many. For starters, the stage isn't really much to look at, being a snowy mountain with lots of platforms. Second, the stage randomly moves at speeds ranging from a standstill to incredibly fast, meaning that quite a few characters are at a disadvantage when it comes to maneuvering around in time to keep up. Also, the stage will sometimes go the ''opposite'' direction without warning, meaning that, if you were at the very top/bottom of the stage, you could very well find yourself KO'd. The similar Rumble Falls in ''Brawl'' is slightly better as the platforms are predictable and the stage always moves up, but like Icicle Mountain, it frustratingly speeds up at completely random times (though it does have the courtesy to warn you first), again putting slower characters at a disadvantage who have a hard time keeping up. Not helping Rumble Falls' case is the one-hit KO spike that appears partway through the stage, as it can easily KO a player who isn't watching out for it.
seconds.


[[YMMV/TheSubspaceEmissary For information on the Subspace Emissary mode from Brawl, go here.]]

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[=YMMV=] tropes for specific games:
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBros64 Super Smash Bros. 64]]
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBrosMelee Super Smash Bros. Melee]]
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBrosBrawl Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]
**
[[YMMV/TheSubspaceEmissary For information on the The Subspace Emissary mode from Brawl, go here.]]
Emissary]]
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBrosForNintendo3DSWiiU Super Smash Bros. For [=3DS=] and Wii U]]
* [[YMMV/SuperSmashBrosUltimate Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]










* EightPointEight:
** IGN giving the Nintendo 3DS version an 8.8 caused some anger, especially since one of the negative points was the hyped-up Smash Run mode.
** [=GamesRadar=] got flack for giving the 3DS version 3 out of 5 stars, as their main complaints were about the online mode, which no other reviewer has had much issue with aside from occasional lag, and Solo Mode, also something no one's really griped about.



** ''Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS'' is hit hard with this, as the vast majority of stages are even more dynamic than in past games. It tries to address the trope by having two modes of online play when playing with random players. "For Fun" removes Final Destination from the list of stages that can be picked while "For Glory" has people playing nothing but Final Destination and variants of other stages in the game that are a "Final Destination" version, or flat in other words. However, this has also been a controversial move, as there's some debate over whether or not it skews matches in favor of "campy" characters such as the Links, or, notoriously, Little Mac, even with the removal of chaingrabbing in ''Wii U /3DS'' taking out the largest game-changer on that stage[[note]]In past games, Final Destination's lack of platforms was notorious for allowing repeated grabbing and throwing upward for massive damage unobstructed[[/note]].
* AccidentalInnuendo:
** Some characters' hurt sounds (''especially'' Palutena) can be easily taken out of context.
** From Bayonetta's trailer (in context and out):
-->'''Pit''': Wow! [[SummonMagic They're]] [[BoobsOfSteel huge!]]
* AlasPoorScrappy:
** ''Anything'' that gets removed, really. There's people mourning the loss of Bonus Matches from ''Melee'' (and, previously, Coin Matches from ''Brawl'') despite no one wanting to actually play them.
** The Subspace Emissary mode in ''Brawl'' may not have been without criticism, but it was still extremely fun to play, and with the announcement that the fourth games would not even have a story mode, its absence is definitely felt.
** The Ice Climbers were among the most divisive characters, especially considering their reliable zero-to-death chaingrab in ''Brawl''. However, when it was discovered that they were cut from ''3DS/Wii U'', fans were outraged and heartbroken, especially considering that, along with Snake, this is the first time in the series that a universe has lost all playable representation. To make things even worse, they were fully programmed in the Wii U version, but since the development team couldn't find a way to make them work in the weaker 3DS, [[YankTheDogsChain they were retroactively deleted]] to keep both versions' rosters the same. Thankfully, the Switch has no such issues and the Ice Climbers returned without a problem in ''Ultimate''.
** Pokémon Trainer, along with Ivysaur and Squirtle. While widely disliked as a character in ''Brawl'' due to his impractical stamina/forced switching and type-effectiveness gimmicks, quite a few people missed the Trainer and his two other Pokémon when Charizard was revealed as a full character for the fourth game, especially with some fans claiming that Squirtle and Ivysaur would have been more fun to play as solo characters than Charizard. Needless to say, everyone was happy to see them all return in ''Ultimate'' (and without the annoying stamina and type-effectiveness mechanics to boot).

to:

** ''Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS'' is hit hard with this, as the vast majority of stages are even more dynamic than in past games. It tries to address the trope by having two modes of online play when playing with random players. "For Fun" removes Final Destination from the list of stages that can be picked while "For Glory" has people playing nothing but Final Destination and variants of other stages in the game that are a "Final Destination" version, or flat in other words. However, this has also been a controversial move, as there's some debate over whether or not it skews matches in favor of "campy" characters such as the Links, or, notoriously, Little Mac, even with the removal of chaingrabbing in ''Wii U /3DS'' taking out the largest game-changer on that stage[[note]]In past games, Final Destination's lack of platforms was notorious for allowing repeated grabbing and throwing upward for massive damage unobstructed[[/note]].
* AccidentalInnuendo:
**
AccidentalInnuendo: Some characters' hurt sounds (''especially'' Palutena) can be easily taken out of context.
** From Bayonetta's trailer (in context and out):
-->'''Pit''': Wow! [[SummonMagic They're]] [[BoobsOfSteel huge!]]
* AlasPoorScrappy:
**
AlasPoorScrappy: ''Anything'' that gets removed, really. There's people mourning the loss of Bonus Matches from ''Melee'' (and, previously, Coin Matches from ''Brawl'') despite no one wanting to actually play them.
** The Subspace Emissary mode in ''Brawl'' may not have been without criticism, but it was still extremely fun to play, and with the announcement that the fourth games would not even have a story mode, its absence is definitely felt.
** The Ice Climbers were among the most divisive characters, especially considering their reliable zero-to-death chaingrab in ''Brawl''. However, when it was discovered that they were cut from ''3DS/Wii U'', fans were outraged and heartbroken, especially considering that, along with Snake, this is the first time in the series that a universe has lost all playable representation. To make things even worse, they were fully programmed in the Wii U version, but since the development team couldn't find a way to make them work in the weaker 3DS, [[YankTheDogsChain they were retroactively deleted]] to keep both versions' rosters the same. Thankfully, the Switch has no such issues and the Ice Climbers returned without a problem in ''Ultimate''.
** Pokémon Trainer, along with Ivysaur and Squirtle. While widely disliked as a character in ''Brawl'' due to his impractical stamina/forced switching and type-effectiveness gimmicks, quite a few people missed the Trainer and his two other Pokémon when Charizard was revealed as a full character for the fourth game, especially with some fans claiming that Squirtle and Ivysaur would have been more fun to play as solo characters than Charizard. Needless to say, everyone was happy to see them all return in ''Ultimate'' (and without the annoying stamina and type-effectiveness mechanics to boot).
them.



** The [[VideoGame/AnimalCrossing Villager]] being a cold-blooded sociopath based on his [[DissonantSerenity dissonantly serene]] expression in the trailer for the fourth game went [[MemeticMutation memetic]] literally within minutes of the announcement.



** Japanese players did not understand why American players were getting excited about Little Mac becoming playable in the fourth game.



** The fourth game suffers more from this than previous entries. In North America, it has an E10+ rating rather than its predecessors' T for Teen (possibly for the sake of {{Amiibo}} marketing). This, along with its brighter and more colorful palette as opposed to ''Brawl''[='=]s comparative use of RealIsBrown (and the absence of [[Franchise/MetalGear Solid Snake]]) leads quite a few people (both fans and non-fans) to label ''Smash 4'' as a "kids' game". This seems to have ended after all the game's DLC characters were revealed; except for Mewtwo and possibly Lucas, most of them are from series that skew more towards older fans, particularly the third-party characters (''especially'' the M-rated VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}) despite Snake not returning. Even Mewtwo & Lucas's presence could partially be directed at older fans, as Mewtwo is highly popular among fans of the [[VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue first generation of Pokémon games]] and is based on the Mewtwo from ''Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie'' (who hasn't reappeared in years), and ''VideoGame/{{Mother 3}}'' was only released in Japan over a decade ago, making Lucas one of the most obscure characters in ''Smash'' and therefore mostly unrecognizable among younger players.



** Rosalina, Samus, Pac-Man, Mewtwo, and Cloud have all been depicted in controversial ways some time after their debut (Rosalina due to her [[TheOtherDarrin third voice actress making her sound more like Peach]], Samus due to her drastic personality changes in ''VideoGame/MetroidOtherM'', Pac-Man due to the polarizing ''WesternAnimation/PacManAndTheGhostlyAdventures'', Mewtwo due to the [[Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie original character]] being apparently [[ReplacementScrappy replaced]] and {{retcon}}ned in ''Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened'', and Cloud being [[{{Flanderization}} depicted]] as a {{wangst}}y, overly mopey EmoTeen stereotype). ''[=SSB4=]'' depicts all five characters akin to their early appearances (Rosalina has her second voice actress, Samus has her old voice clips and personality across her two forms[[note]]although she still mostly uses her ''Other M'' designs, so this particular case is only half-way [[BrokenBase for some people]][[/note]], Pac-Man has his original design and [[CompositeCharacter represents retro Namco games in general,]] Mewtwo is based on ''Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie'' like in ''Melee'', albeit with [[TheOtherDarrin a new voice actor]], and Cloud is headstrong and dwells on his InferioritySuperiorityComplex just like during the early game of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'').



** One of the biggest praising points for ''[=SSB4=]'' on the Wii U is that it looks ''beautiful''. The 3DS version is no slouch either, with some of the best graphics ever seen on the console — as noted below, it pushes the 3DS's processing power to the limit. While the graphics aren't as crisp, smooth, or detailed as their home console counterpart, they're consistently displayed in full 3D.
** In addition to the above, many characters also got special 'posters' with them interacting with many different fighters from the game, sometimes these can be a MythologyGag such as [[http://www.smashbros.com/us/images/character/rockman/illust-modal.jpg Mega Man's art]] being reminiscent of his old Japanese box arts featuring him with 8 Robot Masters with the BigBad [[EvilOverlooker overhead]], or just be thematically awesome as well as beautiful like [[http://www.smashbros.com/us/images/character/bayonetta/illust-modal.jpg Bayonetta's art]], which shows her in the center of a grudge match of 'light vs darkness'.



[[folder:B]]
* BestBossEver:
** Master Core in ''3DS/Wii U''. It's [[MarathonBoss long]] and it's [[ThatOneBoss hard]], yet the pacing of the fight is faster than any boss in the series, and it breaks all standards that previous bosses established, including [[SequentialBoss multiple phases]] and ''picking up Final Destination and dropping it''. The presentation is fantastic as well, being one of the ultimate examples of an EldritchAbomination, revealing the [[OneWingedAngel true form]] of Master Hand, and a satisfying final phase where the player is given free reign to cut loose.
** Master Fortress counts, since it adds another layer to the awesomeness (through it is a ''Wii U''-only form).
* BestLevelEver
** For the competitive community, [[VideoGame/AnimalCrossing Smashville]] is seen in this light. It's widely regarded as the most balanced of any tourney-legal stage, even more so than Battlefield.
** [[VideoGame/WarioWare The Gamer]] stage, despite never having a chance of tournament play ever, is also considered pretty fun, even if it has a potentially lethal stage hazard. It's fun to dodge the Mother and laugh when unsuspecting players or even yourself get caught by her. Additionally, the stage's layout is randomly generated each time it's played. However, it can be a [[ThatOneLevel major pain]] in Crazy Orders. Just be careful not to hide under the easel.
** [[VideoGame/StarFoxAssault Orbital Gate Assault]] is pure eye candy. The scenery is beautiful, complete with Arwings flying through space, and there's always something happening. Heck, it took Sakurai's team a year to finish the level. That should tell you something about how great it is.
** The [[VideoGame/PunchOut Boxing Ring]] has also been ranked among ''3DS/Wii U'''s best stages. The size is just right, not too big and not too small, and with the aesthetics of a sold-out crowd cheering on the fighters brings a unique atmosphere that makes any player hyped while playing on it. There's also the added touch of having the fighters being broadcast on the jumbotron ala ''VideoGame/PunchOut'' Arcade (complete with aliases for all of the characters, ex. Mario = Mr. Video Game Himself, etc.)
** Duck Hunt for being a relatively simple stage that looks a lot like the original game, and for having stage elements that add to the feel of it while having little if any effect on the actual battle. It also avoids having walk-off edges by having black space to the left and right of it. It's not uncommon for players to stop fighting for a second to attack the ducks. Originally a Wii U exclusive stage, its popularity saw it added to the 3DS version as free DLC.
* BreatherBoss:
** Crazy Hand. In the Wii U version, he's fought alone in Crazy Orders, and his battle is sometimes considered far easier than the Crazy Orders matches themselves, as he doesn't possess [[ThatOneAttack a particular OHKO attack involving rising platforms]] like Master Hand. In fact, there's only one attack that is hard to avoid, which is a black hole that gives you the Flower Status, and even then, the only hard part about the battle is probably the characters that assist it (or sometimes, even Master Hand).
** The Master Beast phase (first phase on 6.0 to 7.4 difficulty, second phase on higher difficulties) of Master Core can be considered a BreatherBoss for people who know its attacks. Compared to Master Giant preceding it (if fighting at the highest difficulty) and Master/Crazy Hand, this phase has predictable and easily telegraphed attacks that can be easily dodged and avoided with guards and rolling. However, Master Edges/Sabres, the form that follows it, [[ThatOneBoss isn't so friendly]].
[[/folder]]

[[folder:C]]

to:

[[folder:B]]
* BestBossEver:
** Master Core in ''3DS/Wii U''. It's [[MarathonBoss long]] and it's [[ThatOneBoss hard]], yet the pacing of the fight is faster than any boss in the series, and it breaks all standards that previous bosses established, including [[SequentialBoss multiple phases]] and ''picking up Final Destination and dropping it''. The presentation is fantastic as well, being one of the ultimate examples of an EldritchAbomination, revealing the [[OneWingedAngel true form]] of Master Hand, and a satisfying final phase where the player is given free reign to cut loose.
** Master Fortress counts, since it adds another layer to the awesomeness (through it is a ''Wii U''-only form).
* BestLevelEver
** For the competitive community, [[VideoGame/AnimalCrossing Smashville]] is seen in this light. It's widely regarded as the most balanced of any tourney-legal stage, even more so than Battlefield.
** [[VideoGame/WarioWare The Gamer]] stage, despite never having a chance of tournament play ever, is also considered pretty fun, even if it has a potentially lethal stage hazard. It's fun to dodge the Mother and laugh when unsuspecting players or even yourself get caught by her. Additionally, the stage's layout is randomly generated each time it's played. However, it can be a [[ThatOneLevel major pain]] in Crazy Orders. Just be careful not to hide under the easel.
** [[VideoGame/StarFoxAssault Orbital Gate Assault]] is pure eye candy. The scenery is beautiful, complete with Arwings flying through space, and there's always something happening. Heck, it took Sakurai's team a year to finish the level. That should tell you something about how great it is.
** The [[VideoGame/PunchOut Boxing Ring]] has also been ranked among ''3DS/Wii U'''s best stages. The size is just right, not too big and not too small, and with the aesthetics of a sold-out crowd cheering on the fighters brings a unique atmosphere that makes any player hyped while playing on it. There's also the added touch of having the fighters being broadcast on the jumbotron ala ''VideoGame/PunchOut'' Arcade (complete with aliases for all of the characters, ex. Mario = Mr. Video Game Himself, etc.)
** Duck Hunt for being a relatively simple stage that looks a lot like the original game, and for having stage elements that add to the feel of it while having little if any effect on the actual battle. It also avoids having walk-off edges by having black space to the left and right of it. It's not uncommon for players to stop fighting for a second to attack the ducks. Originally a Wii U exclusive stage, its popularity saw it added to the 3DS version as free DLC.
* BreatherBoss:
** Crazy Hand. In the Wii U version, he's fought alone in Crazy Orders, and his battle is sometimes considered far easier than the Crazy Orders matches themselves, as he doesn't possess [[ThatOneAttack a particular OHKO attack involving rising platforms]] like Master Hand. In fact, there's only one attack that is hard to avoid, which is a black hole that gives you the Flower Status, and even then, the only hard part about the battle is probably the characters that assist it (or sometimes, even Master Hand).
** The Master Beast phase (first phase on 6.0 to 7.4 difficulty, second phase on higher difficulties) of Master Core can be considered a BreatherBoss for people who know its attacks. Compared to Master Giant preceding it (if fighting at the highest difficulty) and Master/Crazy Hand, this phase has predictable and easily telegraphed attacks that can be easily dodged and avoided with guards and rolling. However, Master Edges/Sabres, the form that follows it, [[ThatOneBoss isn't so friendly]].
[[/folder]]

[[folder:C]]
[[folder:B-C]]



* ContestedSequel: While general consensus says the ''Smash 4'' games on the casual and competitive side are superior to ''Brawl'' (especially competitively, where its competitive scene was multiple magnitudes larger than ''Brawl''[='=]s ever was, while it went into ''Ultimate'' with a still strong scene), some diehard ''Brawl'' fans have been vocal about their preference of ''Brawl'' and lament for a revival of its competitive scene. On the casual side, you have those who actually liked ''The Subspace Emissary'' criticize ''Smash 4'' for its lackluster singe-player mode. On the competitive side, in some irony considering what they faced from ''Melee'' players for years, you have ''Brawl'' players who lambast ''Smash 4'' for its removal of advanced techniques such as [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/DACUS DACUS]] and [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Glide_toss glide tossing]], and its perceived overall lack of such techniques, claiming it has a lower "skill ceiling" among other things.



** VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}} in ''Smash 4'' shares a lot of similarities with [[VideoGame/GravityRush Kat]] in ''VideoGame/PlaystationAllStarsBattleRoyale''. Both of them are girls who wear black (in their default appearances, anyway) and were brought into their respective games as DLC, and they are both the most combo-heavy characters in their games, often to the point of accusations of [[GameBreaker brokenness]].



** Master Core counts, considering it is an EldritchAbomination that has multiple forms and attacks formed of a dark shadow, which include [[MirrorBoss copying the player]], picking up and dropping the stage, shooting lightning and energy blasts, and to top it off, its ultimate form in ''Wii U'' is a giant fortress swarming with enemies and deadly acid.



* CriticalDissonance:
** "Professional" video game reviewers have a tendency to underrate or overrate fighting game sequels by simply not understanding the changes in mechanics all that well (and instead mostly just perceive the games by the graphics and the volume of content), and the ''Smash Bros.'' series is no exception. When ''Melee'' was new, some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Smash 64's''; when ''Brawl'' was new, some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Melee's''; not a single hardcore follower of the series would agree.
** While the 3DS version of ''[=SSB4=]'' is widely considered inferior to the Wii U version, it completely dwarfs the Wii U version in terms of sales, owing to the 3DS' ''much'' larger install base, and is [[http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendos-best-selling-wii-u-3ds-games-revealed/1100-6429286/ the second best-selling game in the series]] next to the aforementioned ''Brawl''. It's also the second worst-reviewed game in the series next to the [=N64=] original (though still very well-reviewed at an 85/100 Metascore), but is very widely preferred over ''Brawl'' due to its improved mechanics (shared with the Wii U version). Surprisingly, [[https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/sakurai-on-dlc-its-all-about-making-players-happy/ Famitsu readers voted it the best game of 2014]], possibly owing to the Japanese market's even ''greater'' skew towards handheld systems than the rest of the world.
* CrossesTheLineTwice:
** Bayonetta's line of "If you want to learn how to talk to a lady, ask your mum," considering roughly ''a third of the cast''[[note]]Lucas, Ike, Link, Toon Link, Zelda, Sheik, Bowser Jr., Samus, Rosalina, Marth, Roy, Fox, Robin, Corrin, Shulk, Sonic, Cloud, and even ''[[HypocriticalHumor Bayonetta herself]]''[[/note]] suffers MissingMom syndrome, the majority of which are or are heavily implied to be dead (and some of whom had the misfortune of dying in front of their children), and the other two thirds are characters whose parents are hardly touched on (so whether their parents are around or not is a completely different issue). In fact, the number of characters whose mothers have been seen and have survived the events of their games can be counted on one hand[[note]]Ness and Lucina, the Mario Brothers if you stretch the definition... and even Lucina's mother is technically dead; she just escaped into a timeline that had a living one and kept her from dying there[[/note]]. In fact, there are multiple comics and images showing certain members of the cast (namely [[spoiler:Lucas]]) [[http://tooneyd.tumblr.com/post/140270249313/its-5am-and-im-sick-as-a-dog-so-i-played-smash-to not taking this well]].
** Seeing Ridley [[ImpaledWithExtremePrejudice stab Megaman]] and [[NeckSnap break Mario's neck,]] accompanied by a SickeningCrunch, in his reveal trailer is pretty horrifying and sets up how big a threat he is. But to then have him twirl Mario's cap on his finger a la ''VideoGame/SuperMarioOdyssey'', it makes Ridley come off as [[RefugeInAudacity hilariously cruel]].

to:

* CriticalDissonance:
**
CriticalDissonance: "Professional" video game reviewers have a tendency to underrate or overrate fighting game sequels by simply not understanding the changes in mechanics all that well (and instead mostly just perceive the games by the graphics and the volume of content), and the ''Smash Bros.'' series is no exception. When ''Melee'' was new, some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Smash 64's''; when ''Brawl'' was new, some reviewers said the gameplay isn't much different from ''Melee's''; not a single hardcore follower of the series would agree.
** While the 3DS version of ''[=SSB4=]'' is widely considered inferior to the Wii U version, it completely dwarfs the Wii U version in terms of sales, owing to the 3DS' ''much'' larger install base, and is [[http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendos-best-selling-wii-u-3ds-games-revealed/1100-6429286/ the second best-selling game in the series]] next to the aforementioned ''Brawl''. It's also the second worst-reviewed game in the series next to the [=N64=] original (though still very well-reviewed at an 85/100 Metascore), but is very widely preferred over ''Brawl'' due to its improved mechanics (shared with the Wii U version). Surprisingly, [[https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/sakurai-on-dlc-its-all-about-making-players-happy/ Famitsu readers voted it the best game of 2014]], possibly owing to the Japanese market's even ''greater'' skew towards handheld systems than the rest of the world.
* CrossesTheLineTwice:
** Bayonetta's line of "If you want to learn how to talk to a lady, ask your mum," considering roughly ''a third of the cast''[[note]]Lucas, Ike, Link, Toon Link, Zelda, Sheik, Bowser Jr., Samus, Rosalina, Marth, Roy, Fox, Robin, Corrin, Shulk, Sonic, Cloud, and even ''[[HypocriticalHumor Bayonetta herself]]''[[/note]] suffers MissingMom syndrome, the majority of which are or are heavily implied to be dead (and some of whom had the misfortune of dying in front of their children), and the other two thirds are characters whose parents are hardly touched on (so whether their parents are around or not is a completely different issue). In fact, the number of characters whose mothers have been seen and have survived the events of their games can be counted on one hand[[note]]Ness and Lucina, the Mario Brothers if you stretch the definition... and even Lucina's mother is technically dead; she just escaped into a timeline that had a living one and kept her from dying there[[/note]]. In fact, there are multiple comics and images showing certain members of the cast (namely [[spoiler:Lucas]]) [[http://tooneyd.tumblr.com/post/140270249313/its-5am-and-im-sick-as-a-dog-so-i-played-smash-to not taking this well]].
**
CrossesTheLineTwice: Seeing Ridley [[ImpaledWithExtremePrejudice stab Megaman]] and [[NeckSnap break Mario's neck,]] accompanied by a SickeningCrunch, in his reveal trailer is pretty horrifying and sets up how big a threat he is. But to then have him twirl Mario's cap on his finger a la ''VideoGame/SuperMarioOdyssey'', it makes Ridley come off as [[RefugeInAudacity hilariously cruel]].



[[folder:D]]
* DemonicSpiders:
** The Fighting Mii Team if you have Custom enabled: They will (like all characters when you do so) make use of the best equipment you have. On higher Intensities, you are looking at a 10-man army (or a 20-man army in ''Wii U'') who will pursue you relentlessly, beat you senseless like the sandbag you are, send you flying to your doom, replace the fallen to keep up the pressure against you, and who won't go down like the small fries they usually are. What especially makes this worse in comparison to other Team battles in ''3DS/Wii U'' (and in former games) is that this particular team have a class of fighters with disjointed hitboxes (the Swordfighter), and a class that specializes in staying out of your reach and who will KO you with their ranged forward smash while you're busy handling the other two (the Gunner).
** Whether with customs or not, the Mii Gunner is this, and not just in [[NintendoHard Cruel Smash]]. They have an unfairly-long-ranged side smash and up aerial that have a ridiculous amount of hitstun, so much so that with other Miis they can trap you in an inescapeable combo that racks up your damage to high percentage without much effort.
** The [[VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising Mimicuties]] in Smash Run are broken. These {{Chest Monster}}s are almost completely indistinguishable from real treasure chests, and, once you awaken one, they will proceed to attack you with extremely powerful kicks and spin attacks, being able to KO you at low percentages, and not only are they incredibly fast, but [[LightningBruiser they can take all of your attacks and shrug it off]]. The worst part? If you try fleeing, they '''actively chase you down'''.[[note]][[http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/917/358/efa.jpg Here's a tip: The Mimicuties are typically more brightly colored than the real treasure chests.]][[/note]]
** [[VideoGame/MOTHER1 Devil Cars]] are quite similar to Mimicuties; they're fast, hit hard, and can follow you a good distance through the map. But while Mimicuties ''can'' be knocked down from a particularly powerful attack and left helpless like most other enemies, Devil Cars are ImmuneToFlinching, a trait shared only by special enemies that are [[MightyGlacier nowhere near as fast]].
** [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Darknuts]], again in Smash Run, will ''destroy you'' without so much as breaking a sweat. They block attacks from the front with their shield, and unlike most AI enemies, are more than capable of suddenly countering an attack from behind, not to mention that they actually get faster as you strip their armor off, meaning they can take LightningBruiser UpToEleven.
** Plasma Wisps don't seem too dangerous at first, until they reach their third charge. At this point, they become surrounded by a plasma shield that damages you and renders them completely invincible. They can also launch this shield as a projectile, which is big, fast, and launches you shockingly far. All of this is made worse by the Plasma Wisp being constantly airborne and a very common enemy.
** Clubberskulls, like in their [[VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising home game]], manage to be the toughest enemy in a game where every enemy is either a {{Goddamned Bat|s}} or a {{Demonic Spider|s}}. Not only do they have a truckload of HP, they hit like one too; Clubberskull's method of ''walking'' alone can juggle you and smash your percentages up from zero into the high 100's. This is ignoring their other attacks, which all have massive range, power, and are designed to launch you as far as possible. The only mercy is that they're rare and you actually have to free them to fight them, but good luck beating one if you do. This is taking away that a stray bullet from an enemy might free them by accident anyways.
** Yet another ''[[VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising Kid Icarus]]'' enemy, Ornes are absolutely vile. First, they're [[InvincibleMinorMinion completely invincible]]. Second, touching one [[OneHitKO instantly [=KOs=] you]] (and it doesn't even send you flying, you just get destroyed right there on the spot). Third, while there is music that plays when you're near one, this sometimes works in the Orne's favor: It usually appears just outside your field of vision, so you can't be sure where it is in relation to your character. In your [[OhCrap haste to leave the area]], it's entirely possible for you to run ''right into it'', unable to react in time and turn around. Worse still, there's a "Survive!" Challenge Door that puts you on a small platform with an Orne, and you have to run from it for several seconds in the limited space available, which can be nigh-impossible if your character is slow.
** Chain Chomps. Their attack has fairly good reach, and hurts you several times before sending you flying. The Chain Chomps themselves are actually invincible; you have to attack the stake that they're chained to to set them free. However, the Chain Chomps will hop around the stake between attacks, and are some of the few Smash Run enemies to inflict CollisionDamage.
** The Lentheniums (laser flowers). Not much of a threat in Smash Run, but is the biggest threat in Master Fortress, being able to hit you from offscreen, often sending you into the acid.
* DisappointingLastLevel: ''Wii U'''s "The final, FINAL battle", you face Pac-Man, Mega Man, Sonic, and Fast Mario, two at a time.
* DiscreditedMeme: The "better nerf Greninja" meme, which despite [[DeadUnicornTrope lacking a real basis to begin with]] (as Greninja was only ever nerfed in the very first balance patch and it was mostly focused on bringing a few broken moves inline), ended up going out of vogue when Greninja kept consistently getting generous buffs in patches all the way to the end despite never being considered worse than mid-tier, while several lower-tier characters were treated a lot less generously, especially Jigglypuff and King Dedede, who were never buffed despite being candidates for worst character in the game (the latter of which actually received a nerf to his already worst-in-the-game air speed in one of the last patches despite being considered one of the worst characters by then).
[[/folder]]

[[folder:E]]

to:

[[folder:D]]
* DemonicSpiders:
** The Fighting Mii Team if you have Custom enabled: They will (like all characters when you do so) make use of the best equipment you have. On higher Intensities, you are looking at a 10-man army (or a 20-man army in ''Wii U'') who will pursue you relentlessly, beat you senseless like the sandbag you are, send you flying to your doom, replace the fallen to keep up the pressure against you, and who won't go down like the small fries they usually are. What especially makes this worse in comparison to other Team battles in ''3DS/Wii U'' (and in former games) is that this particular team have a class of fighters with disjointed hitboxes (the Swordfighter), and a class that specializes in staying out of your reach and who will KO you with their ranged forward smash while you're busy handling the other two (the Gunner).
** Whether with customs or not, the Mii Gunner is this, and not just in [[NintendoHard Cruel Smash]]. They have an unfairly-long-ranged side smash and up aerial that have a ridiculous amount of hitstun, so much so that with other Miis they can trap you in an inescapeable combo that racks up your damage to high percentage without much effort.
** The [[VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising Mimicuties]] in Smash Run are broken. These {{Chest Monster}}s are almost completely indistinguishable from real treasure chests, and, once you awaken one, they will proceed to attack you with extremely powerful kicks and spin attacks, being able to KO you at low percentages, and not only are they incredibly fast, but [[LightningBruiser they can take all of your attacks and shrug it off]]. The worst part? If you try fleeing, they '''actively chase you down'''.[[note]][[http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/917/358/efa.jpg Here's a tip: The Mimicuties are typically more brightly colored than the real treasure chests.]][[/note]]
** [[VideoGame/MOTHER1 Devil Cars]] are quite similar to Mimicuties; they're fast, hit hard, and can follow you a good distance through the map. But while Mimicuties ''can'' be knocked down from a particularly powerful attack and left helpless like most other enemies, Devil Cars are ImmuneToFlinching, a trait shared only by special enemies that are [[MightyGlacier nowhere near as fast]].
** [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Darknuts]], again in Smash Run, will ''destroy you'' without so much as breaking a sweat. They block attacks from the front with their shield, and unlike most AI enemies, are more than capable of suddenly countering an attack from behind, not to mention that they actually get faster as you strip their armor off, meaning they can take LightningBruiser UpToEleven.
** Plasma Wisps don't seem too dangerous at first, until they reach their third charge. At this point, they become surrounded by a plasma shield that damages you and renders them completely invincible. They can also launch this shield as a projectile, which is big, fast, and launches you shockingly far. All of this is made worse by the Plasma Wisp being constantly airborne and a very common enemy.
** Clubberskulls, like in their [[VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising home game]], manage to be the toughest enemy in a game where every enemy is either a {{Goddamned Bat|s}} or a {{Demonic Spider|s}}. Not only do they have a truckload of HP, they hit like one too; Clubberskull's method of ''walking'' alone can juggle you and smash your percentages up from zero into the high 100's. This is ignoring their other attacks, which all have massive range, power, and are designed to launch you as far as possible. The only mercy is that they're rare and you actually have to free them to fight them, but good luck beating one if you do. This is taking away that a stray bullet from an enemy might free them by accident anyways.
** Yet another ''[[VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising Kid Icarus]]'' enemy, Ornes are absolutely vile. First, they're [[InvincibleMinorMinion completely invincible]]. Second, touching one [[OneHitKO instantly [=KOs=] you]] (and it doesn't even send you flying, you just get destroyed right there on the spot). Third, while there is music that plays when you're near one, this sometimes works in the Orne's favor: It usually appears just outside your field of vision, so you can't be sure where it is in relation to your character. In your [[OhCrap haste to leave the area]], it's entirely possible for you to run ''right into it'', unable to react in time and turn around. Worse still, there's a "Survive!" Challenge Door that puts you on a small platform with an Orne, and you have to run from it for several seconds in the limited space available, which can be nigh-impossible if your character is slow.
** Chain Chomps. Their attack has fairly good reach, and hurts you several times before sending you flying. The Chain Chomps themselves are actually invincible; you have to attack the stake that they're chained to to set them free. However, the Chain Chomps will hop around the stake between attacks, and are some of the few Smash Run enemies to inflict CollisionDamage.
** The Lentheniums (laser flowers). Not much of a threat in Smash Run, but is the biggest threat in Master Fortress, being able to hit you from offscreen, often sending you into the acid.
* DisappointingLastLevel: ''Wii U'''s "The final, FINAL battle", you face Pac-Man, Mega Man, Sonic, and Fast Mario, two at a time.
* DiscreditedMeme: The "better nerf Greninja" meme, which despite [[DeadUnicornTrope lacking a real basis to begin with]] (as Greninja was only ever nerfed in the very first balance patch and it was mostly focused on bringing a few broken moves inline), ended up going out of vogue when Greninja kept consistently getting generous buffs in patches all the way to the end despite never being considered worse than mid-tier, while several lower-tier characters were treated a lot less generously, especially Jigglypuff and King Dedede, who were never buffed despite being candidates for worst character in the game (the latter of which actually received a nerf to his already worst-in-the-game air speed in one of the last patches despite being considered one of the worst characters by then).
[[/folder]]

[[folder:E]]
[[folder:D-E]]



** Datamines, leaks, and even official reveals are a goldmine for these types of theories. Whenever new information pops up (true or false), fans are quick to analyze it and come to conclusions about what it means for characters, stages, and modes that will be in the final upcoming game at the time. In many cases, people assess Nintendo's first- and third-party libraries at the time to make reasonable-to-wild guesses about future ''Smash'' characters.
*** Rayman's trophy in ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' had many people suspecting that he'd be added as a playable character down the line (likely as DLC). This wasn't helped by a fake leak by Artsy Omni meant to promote his "Smashified" series of fan artwork. In the end, Rayman never made it in.
*** One concept that picked up a lot of steam was the potential inclusion of indie game characters such as VideoGame/ShovelKnight in ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'', due to the Wii U's strong support for indie games, the creators' willingness to have their characters included in ''Smash'' (a very high honor), and the "Smashified" fan art series' strong indie character presence. In the end, this turned out to be for naught, and no indie character has been added to ''Smash'' yet.
*** The question of [[Franchise/{{Metroid}} Ridley's]] inclusion in the games is one that's always been hotly debated, but after some showcased footage of [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb35vh33Mb8&t=59s Ridley's shadow]] on the [[VideoGame/MetroidOtherM Pyrosphere]] stage of ''Wii U'' with the caption of "Other boss character appearances", the fans got riled up. One side believed that with careful analysis of the shadow, one can notice that Ridley seemed to act more like a player character than a boss due to his animations (him grabbing Pikachu and doing nothing is commonly brought up) and that the shadow made him seem larger than he actually was (he would theoretically be only slightly bigger than Bowser in reality). The other side pointed out that nobody actually knew how the bosses of the game would function, as only the [[VideoGame/MegaManClassic Yellow Devil]] had been revealed until then. While Ridley is absent from the initial 3DS roster, fans have noticed his suspicious absence from being included as a trophy, and look toward certain rumors as evidence that he would be patched in when the Wii U version was released or ending up as a DLC character. It was ultimately revealed that the cloned ''VideoGame/MetroidOtherM'' Ridley for the Pyrosphere stage would be both a boss and an assist character, similar to Magicant's Flying Man [[note]]although some still insist that there's a chance that the original ''VideoGame/SuperMetroid'' Ridley could be DLC despite the fact that the ''Wii U'' Ridley is a CompositeCharacter of ''Other M'' Ridley and ''Prime'' Meta Ridley[[/note]]. Sakurai eventually revealed in an interview that making Ridley a playable fighter would require various adjustments, but that the end result would not feel like Ridley at all. Naturally, fans are split over Sakurai's reasoning/decision. Thankfully, Ridley got his chance to shine one game later.
** The fandom also engages in other debates about the content of the games themselves, and what their canon may consist of (outside of ''VideoGame/TheSubspaceEmissary'').

to:

** Datamines, leaks, and even official reveals are a goldmine for these types of theories. Whenever new information pops up (true or false), fans are quick to analyze it and come to conclusions about what it means for characters, stages, and modes that will be in the final upcoming game at the time. In many cases, people assess Nintendo's first- and third-party libraries at the time to make reasonable-to-wild guesses about future ''Smash'' characters.
*** Rayman's trophy in ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' had many people suspecting that he'd be added as a playable character down the line (likely as DLC). This wasn't helped by a fake leak by Artsy Omni meant to promote his "Smashified" series of fan artwork. In the end, Rayman never made it in.
*** One concept that picked up a lot of steam was the potential inclusion of indie game characters such as VideoGame/ShovelKnight in ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'', due to the Wii U's strong support for indie games, the creators' willingness to have their characters included in ''Smash'' (a very high honor), and the "Smashified" fan art series' strong indie character presence. In the end, this turned out to be for naught, and no indie character has been added to ''Smash'' yet.
*** The question of [[Franchise/{{Metroid}} Ridley's]] inclusion in the games is one that's always been hotly debated, but after some showcased footage of [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb35vh33Mb8&t=59s Ridley's shadow]] on the [[VideoGame/MetroidOtherM Pyrosphere]] stage of ''Wii U'' with the caption of "Other boss character appearances", the fans got riled up. One side believed that with careful analysis of the shadow, one can notice that Ridley seemed to act more like a player character than a boss due to his animations (him grabbing Pikachu and doing nothing is commonly brought up) and that the shadow made him seem larger than he actually was (he would theoretically be only slightly bigger than Bowser in reality). The other side pointed out that nobody actually knew how the bosses of the game would function, as only the [[VideoGame/MegaManClassic Yellow Devil]] had been revealed until then. While Ridley is absent from the initial 3DS roster, fans have noticed his suspicious absence from being included as a trophy, and look toward certain rumors as evidence that he would be patched in when the Wii U version was released or ending up as a DLC character. It was ultimately revealed that the cloned ''VideoGame/MetroidOtherM'' Ridley for the Pyrosphere stage would be both a boss and an assist character, similar to Magicant's Flying Man [[note]]although some still insist that there's a chance that the original ''VideoGame/SuperMetroid'' Ridley could be DLC despite the fact that the ''Wii U'' Ridley is a CompositeCharacter of ''Other M'' Ridley and ''Prime'' Meta Ridley[[/note]]. Sakurai eventually revealed in an interview that making Ridley a playable fighter would require various adjustments, but that the end result would not feel like Ridley at all. Naturally, fans are split over Sakurai's reasoning/decision. Thankfully, Ridley got his chance to shine one game later.
** The fandom also engages in other debates about the content of the games themselves, and what their canon may consist of (outside of ''VideoGame/TheSubspaceEmissary'').



* EvenBetterSequel: So far, each of the installments have been met with this in some form.
** ''3DS/Wii U'' received this reputation from both 'casual' and 'hardcore' fans, due to marrying much of what is considered the best of both worlds from the previous installments. The Wii U version, which came later, is '''itself''' considered a better sequel to the 3DS version in spite of sharing much of the same content.



** Calling ''3DS/Wii U'' "''Brawl'' 2.0" is a quick way for people to be angrily swarmed by fans due to generally being used by people [[ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch who have only watched the gameplay]] and not actually played it, in addition to being an insult trying to prevent the games from being respected in the competitive scene.



** Interest in the ''Xenoblade'' series grew exponentially with a primary factor being Shulk's inclusion in the fourth installment.



* GeniusBonus: Master Core's boss theme includes a short little bit of freaking ''Morse code''. What does it spell? M-A-S-T-E-R C-O-R-E.



** Ike's [[HeroicBuild buffed-up]] design in ''3DS/Wii U'' (originating from ''Radiant Dawn'') is [[MemeticMutation memetically]] derided in Japan for looking like a gorilla. In America, Ike's design is far more popular for being [[RatedMForManly manly]], and became the subject of many ''positive'' memes.



* GoddamnedBats:
** Metal characters in Classic Mode in 3DS ''can'' become this; the thing is that not only do they go for the obvious "higher resistance but more weight" that would usually be associated with them, but they come with the annoying advantage of not flinching when hit with normal attacks at lower percents, which means that characters whose usual weakness is being [[FragileSpeedster frail]] become a LightningBruiser and characters with [[MightyGlacier slow-charging but powerful]] smash attacks now can't be stopped by just hitting during the charge. They also can use items with the same ease as a player and now [[ObviousRulePatch their extra weight is not balanced by hilariously fast falling speed]], which means you can't just throw them out of the stage and watch as they are helplessly dragged down by their own weight while trying to recover. Donkey Kong's Hand Slap and Peach's down smash in ''Melee'' are notable for their ridiculous damage output, which makes short work of almost any metal character.
** Smash Run is infested with these.
*** Every Pokémon enemy qualifies: Chandelure takes no damage and ''becomes stronger'' if it's hit by one of the many fire- or darkness-based attacks in ''Smash Bros'', Cryogonal's Ice Beam instantly freezes you and is hard to dodge, Gastly can't be hurt if your character doesn't have a projectile, Koffing has a large attack radius and can lower your stats, and Petilil can put you to sleep.
*** [[Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog Eggrobos]] will either fire a quick blast or a laser that covers the entire screen while moving up or down. This is made worse by being a very common AirborneMook that will back away if you get too close.
*** Fire [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Bubbles]] and especially Ice Bubbles are difficult to fight due to being covered by an aura that will burn you or freeze you if you don't time your attacks perfectly. Being common airborne enemies that will actively charge at you doesn't help.
*** If you damage a [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Cucco]] too much, it will summon a flock of invincible Cuccos that will attack you relentlessly, making it difficult to accomplish anything. Even a defeated enemy bumping into one will provoke it, and they love to spawn right next to a group of enemies, making it very easy to hit them by accident.
*** All of the [[VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising Skuttlers]] have a ton of health and are quite common. The regular Skuttlers are aggressive attackers who will flinch you with a quick attack or launch you with a stronger one. The Skuttler Cannoneers fire homing rockets that launch you, bombs that launch you, or lasers that flinch you. The Skuttler Mages have an unblockable ranged attack that will lower your stats if you don't dodge at the right time, or a multi-hit melee attack that also lowers your stats and is nearly impossible to escape if you get caught.
*** Paratroopas can be very annoying to deal with, particularly in large numbers, as they attack rather quickly, and in large numbers, they may not give you enough time to dodge [[CycleOfHurting before another one attacks you]]. Of course, large waves of them is the game's preferred way of spawning them, making dealing with them all the more difficult.
*** Bacuras. They don't deal that much damage (only 4%), but they make up for that by hitting with a meteor smash. Also, they are completely [[InvincibleMinorMinion invincible]] and can reflect projectiles. What makes them a real pain to deal with is that they can easily get in the way of navigating the Smash Run area. When trying to go up, they can be hidden off screen and be ready to hit with only a split-second's worth of time to react to. If they are among the randomly-selected enemy roster, they will also spawn frequently too and always show up in groups.
** In a non-Smash Run, example there are characters who can pull off combos that can render you helpless. The fighting Miis in the MultiMookMelee are severe offenders. This is particularly egregious when you're trying to do the challenge where you have to defeat a set number of them in three minutes, as it wastes your precious seconds.
** In the online For Glory mode, lower-skill players become this. These players tend to constantly roll around, throwing out a projectile or Smash attack every so often, then continue rolling. Even when the other player is far more skilled, the defensive, low-skill player will still manage to draw out the match even if they eventually lose, which becomes an annoyance to the higher-skill player (especially if they make use of tactics that are very hard to beat out via unorthodox-spamming certain moves).
*** With the above example, an inverted case also tends to be a higher-skill player for the lower-leveled ones, since they most likely would spend more time trying to [[{{GIFT}} trash talk their anonymous opposition]] and will be bound to pick an (in)famous low-tier for disrespect to gain an edge while either winning or losing (Ganondorf and Charizard tend to be popular choices due to also being heavyweights). The nature of For Glory's usual lag exacerbates these matters further quite a bit depending on one's connection. Both of these cases, however, mainly tie into the matchmaking system, which often pits players who've been practicing non-stop against those who can barely recover back on stage (hence a lot of memetic For Glory montages).
** Also in For Glory (and sometimes For Fun as well), taunt parties or matches that are otherwise not devoted to fighting. For one thing, when going into one, there will usually be no indication that it's a goof-off match, and a player who actually tries to fight is likely to have the other players all gang up on and beat the stuffing out of the "offending" player who came in expecting a normal match. Matches like this are very annoying for the players who want to, you know, actually play the game, as they are forced to sit through the match doing nothing but begrudgingly join in the fun lest they risk getting a ban for quitting out of one.
* GoodBadBugs:
** The fact that [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwzd36mWN-I he had a few of these]] is one of the reasons why Yoshi is considered top tier in 3DS. They were patched out, though.
** Wario's air control in the 3DS version can, in certain cases, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAVeoovpeBk allow him to fly]]. [[EpicFail Usually, his flight takes him right to the blast line.]]
** A particularly nasty — but nonetheless amusing — glitch can occur during 3DS online play that can get you banned from participating in matches for '''over a century'''. Luckily, since the 3DS version has a patching feature, [[AuthorsSavingThrow it's likely that this will be fixed eventually]].
** In the Wii U version, should a timed match including Wario as the player character on a team with someone else end as Wario's Final Smash is timing out, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FE9PIGACIo he'll be able to move around in the victory screen]]. (Though there's only so much you can do there, this also works with other transformation Finals.)



** People outright '''freaked out''' when the battle against [[TrueFinalBoss Master Core]] in ''Smash 4'' was initially found and shown on a livestream. It's Master Hand's OneWingedAngel form! It has [[SequentialBoss numerous phases!]] Its health is invisible! ''It just picked up Final Destination and dropped it!'' Keep in mind, this was discovered after all the unlockable newcomers were found and people thought the game had no surprises left for them to see.
** Really, almost any time a fighter is announced; it's the biggest reason why we have a special [[AndTheFandomRejoiced/SuperSmashBros And the Fandom Rejoiced page for this series]], mind you. For example, many fans truly lost it when Mewtwo was announced to return as DLC.
** The announcement of [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Cloud]], an UnexpectedCharacter of the highest order.
** And then the reveal of the ballot winner VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}} comes along, blowing the minds of fans. Some thought that she wouldn't have a chance due to her home games' mature content.
** Wii U modding has begun. This is and of itself isn't the HSQ, but when one Smash 4 modder, sort of, gave [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sve8gXoh3Q Falco his melee moveset back.]] That's how ''VideoGame/ProjectM'' got started.



* HoYay:
** Robin's All-Star credits panel pokes fun at the perceived commonness of this in canon ''Fire Emblem'' games.
** Lucas's ending video shows a clip of him and Ness, where [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything Ness's hands are near Lucas's crotch and Lucas seems to be struggling.]]



** Mentioning the Gemastu leaks of the fourth game, as while they aren't fully reflected in the final version, fans continue to debate whether they're from an earlier point in development or a straight-up UrbanLegendOfZelda.
** The Fighter Ballot for the fourth title has been a repeated source of controversy and infighting amongst the fandom. Sakurai stated that he would use the ballot as a basis to consider a future fighter as DLC, and this immediately erupted into arguments over who the fandom should vote in. A veteran who didn't make the final cut? An older classic Nintendo character? A popular third-party character? A newer indie character? There were no right answers (it was everybody vs everybody, and ThereCanBeOnlyOne), and if you ever made a suggestion, it would bring about accusations of you wasting your vote. And then, during the final Smash Direct, this all came to a head when [[ShockingSwerve it was revealed that]] ''VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}'' was chosen as the victor.



** The fourth game features stages from the original Nintendo 64 title, which were conspicuously absent from ''Brawl''. However, it's a straight port, with no attempt to graphically improve the stages (other than a higher video resolution), making the high-definition fighters and items look out-of-place against the bare polygonal shapes and blurry textures (through it was probably intentional). This is especially annoying considering the gorgeous remakes of these stages featured in ''VideoGame/ProjectM'', including [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0lSBbOzftA Hyrule Castle]] and [[http://youtu.be/rcJHZCuaG84?t=1m20s Peach's Castle]]. Adding fuel to the fire, even though ''Ultimate'' gives most stages from ''Melee'', ''Brawl'', and ''Smash 4'' updated appearances a la ''VideoGame/MarioKart8'', the Nintendo 64 stages ''still'' look more or less the same as they did 20 years ago.



* ItWasHisSled:
** '''All''' of the unlockable characters in every game — usually before the games even launch. Taken for granted by the inclusion of [[WalkingSpoiler Sheik as a transformation of Zelda]].

to:

* ItWasHisSled:
**
ItWasHisSled: '''All''' of the unlockable characters in every game — usually before the games even launch. Taken for granted by the inclusion of [[WalkingSpoiler Sheik as a transformation of Zelda]].



** The developers must have been aware of this when making the Wii U and 3DS games, as various characters that are usually unlockables are available from the start in those games, plus the process of unlocking all the characters is much quicker.
** When the fourth game launched in 2014, all mentions of the FinalBoss, Master Core, were spoiler-tagged on this page. Now, knowledge of Master Core is so widespread that there is no reason to keep it a secret.



** The ''VideoGame/AnimalCrossing'' Villager became this practically within minutes of being announced due to his axe and [[DissonantSerenity constant smiling expression]] ([[http://25.media.tumblr.com/3570b04459980a44caca34e890b50686/tumblr_mo8htbQvyb1qck9sro2_1280.jpg for example]]). Thanks to this, fans have interpreted him as an AxCrazy [[http://sumrlybadusername.tumblr.com/post/52740362986/do-u-think-this-is-a--game serial killer.]]
** The [[VideoGame/WiiFit Wii Fit Trainer]] is headed in this direction as well; just look at the Memes page.
** Yoshi's become one as of ''3DS/Wii U'', because of [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrMIMCI29eA&feature=youtu.be&t=3m42s this victory animation]] which brings [[VideoGame/StreetFighter Akuma]] to mind. It's OlderThanTheyThink though, as he's had that victory animation ever since ''64''.



** Bayonetta has been getting this treatment due to the massive flame war she's causing in the competitive community, aside from the fact that she's prime MemeticBadass material in her home series. Not even that long in and some areas have already either banned or consider banning her. Many people have taken to her just being so unbelievably badass that people can't handle her and need to ban her.



** Chrom, due to his treatment in the trailer and in Palutena's Guidance on Robin. The most common joke is that [[http://graphiteknight.tumblr.com/post/91801945058/captain-falcon-hit-chrom-so-hard-that-he-knocked he got Falcon Punched so hard, he was knocked out of the roster.]] The ribbing only got worse when it was [[https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/626287712950030336 revealed]] that he would be included as a Mii costume. And when Corrin of ''Fire Emblem Fates'' was announced as DLC, the teasing became ''[[UpToEleven even worse]]'', with many people snarking about how Chrom has been passed over yet ''again'', this time for a character whose game was only six months old and not even out in America yet at the time of the announcement.
** Little Mac has also been getting this treatment due to the major HypeBacklash he got when it was discovered he wasn't a GameBreaker but instead a [[CripplingOverspecialization very lopsided]] and easy-to-handle SkillGateCharacter. The revelation from Sakurai that [[http://kotaku.com/little-mac-is-smash-bros-biggest-loser-1658263617 Little Mac wins far less than he loses online]] doesn't help much, nor are the many YouTube videos [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS1sJHN6E2Q making fun of his poor recovery]] or the fact that it's dangerously easy for him to dive off of ledges with his side special. Also, Mac just happens to be on the receiving end of [[Franchise/StreetFighter Ryu's]] [[LimitBreak Shin Shoryuken]] in the latter's Final Smash trophy, so it's possible Nintendo has caught on to this one.
** Greninja also got this treatment due to the exaggeration of the nerfs he received in patches, to the point where jokes were made about it every time people discussed upcoming balance patches. It's now discredited due to people being more knowledgeable about the patching history (thus you no longer have people thinking he kept getting nerfed after the first patch), the repeated buffs Greninja kept getting in patches, and it being apparent that many other characters were treated far worse by the patches (namely Jigglypuff and King Dedede).



** Palutena is frequently mocked by fans for being a generally bad and boring character since release.



* MemeticTroll: Ganondorf players in ''3DS/Wii U'', thanks to his [[AwesomeButImpractical slow but hard-hitting]] attacks, and for [[TakingYouWithMe his aerial Flame Choke]] always stocking the opponent first, making him a poster boy for disrepect and salt. This fits with Ganondorf's canon portrayal in ''Ocarina of Time'', where he was [[SmugSuper smug]], [[AwesomeEgo condescending]] and frequently talked down to the heroes. Him keeping his [[TheArtifact artifact]] moveset is sometimes seen as him trolling his "Canondorf" fans.



** [[IntendedAudienceReaction True to form]], the ''VideoGame/DuckHunt'' Dog's mocking laughter is bound to irritate players. The stage Duck Hunt in ''Wii U'' features the original 8-bit sound clip of the dog laughing (naturally, when you miss a duck or two depending on how many have appeared on the screen), which can be ''really'' irritating, especially when most of the time, you and your opponent(s) aren't trying to shoot the ducks.



** In ''Wii U'', which has around 450 songs, the online waiting room always plays the same short loop. This means you're all but forced to mute the game and find something outside of the game to listen to if you join a regular tournament early to claim a spot.



** In ''3DS/U'', Meteor Smashes now make an unique noise when they connect. This sound feels good knowing you just sent your opponent into the pits.
** If you're lucky enough to stop the roulette in Smash 4's Classic mode on 5 trophies or 5 custom moves, the spinner makes a strange yet smile-inducing noise.



** Male Corrin's dialogue comes off as this, no thanks to the delivery of lines such as "I win!" in an incredibly jarring child-like tone.[[note]]To his credit, male Corrin is better voice acted.[[/note]] Female Corrin, like female Robin above, [[AvertedTrope averts]] this trope with a more fitting attitude for combat.
*** Male Corrin's KO cry sounds more like he was scared by a ghost. [[note]]His other KO cry, however, "How... can this?", doesn't sound as narmy.[[/note]]
** Then again, while Female Corrin's tone is more serious, it's ''so'' serious as to be [[DullSurprise completely emotionless]]. Her specific victory quote being a rather boring "Good" doesn't help, especially when delivered in her flat tone.
*** The voice acting in his announcement trailer was rather…off. Especially Elise, who sounds less like a concerned sister and more like a snotty brat. It's not as Narmy in ''Fates'' itself, when the voice-acting of the Decision cutscene was redone with much better performances (including Elise's).
--> '''Elise:''' He's ''my'' brother!



** Some fans of ''Star Fox'' are fine with the voice actors for Fox and Falco in ''4,'' either due to nostalgia for ''Star Fox 64'' or pointing out that the ''Star Fox'' games like ''64'' [[SoBadItsGood aren't full of great voice acting in the first place.]]
** In the ''Wii U'' version, Ganondorf's up taunt [[http://beautifulmansbeauty.tumblr.com/post/103443387841/my-friend-anthony-has-been-having-a-lot-of-fun looks very silly at a certain angle,]] but otherwise is a rather cool taunt.



** It's hard not to love the questionable delivery on some of male Robin's lines, especially during his reveal trailer.
---> ''"It looks like our fates have joined."''
** Similarly, male Corrin's sheer ''enthusiasm'' makes his dialogue rather endearing, despite the somewhat jarring tone and dissonance with his expressions. It helps that it's technically [[DorkKnight in-character]] for him.



* NeverLiveItDown: ''[=SSB4=]'' Diddy Kong will always be remembered for his "Hoo-Hah" and being an [[GameBreaker utterly broken]] invincible character, due to the massive amounts of bile that he raised before his nerfs in version 1.0.6. It doesn't matter that Diddy still wins almost every major tournament thanks to - and only thanks to - his best player [=ZeRo=], which to many people is a painful reminder of the 1.0.4 days.



** In a rare instance of the developers themselves doing this, the April 8th Nintendo Direct gave a comprehensive rundown of Mega Man's moveset and where nearly each attack of his originates from, but erroneously attributed the [[{{Shoryuken}} Mega Upper]] to the original ''[[VideoGame/MarvelVsCapcomClashOfSuperHeroes Marvel vs. Capcom]]'' (1998). It actually first appeared in the arcade fighter ''Mega Man 2: The Power Fighters'' (1996).
** When Ike was confirmed for ''3DS/Wii U'', some people talked about the more muscular design as if it was brand new. They weren't aware of the design's actual origin, which is ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemTellius Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn]]'' for the Wii, which predates the former game by eight years.
** This isn't the first time something ''VideoGame/DuckHunt''-related appeared in a 3D game. The ducks make a cameo in VideoGame/WiiPlay's "Shooting Range". You can even hear the dog barking before they appear.
** "I'm really feeling it" was one of Shulk's battle quotes from ''{{Xenoblade}}''.
** Ryu's DancingBear of being able to switch between light/heavy attacks by changing the length of the button held dates back to some versions of ''VideoGame/StreetFighterI''; there, too, it was used to make up for the absence of more direct commands in two-button ports.



** ''Smash 4'' isn't Cloud's first appearance on a Nintendo console - he makes appearances in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsChainOfMemories'' (first released on the Game Boy Advance), ''VideoGame/TheatrhythmFinalFantasy'', & ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyExplorers'' (both of which are on the 3DS).
** A lot of Smash players don't realize that Cloud's [[LimitBreak Omnislash]] predates Ike's Great Aether, or any similar Final Smash used by swordsmen (the Links' Triforce Slash, Kirby's Ultra Sword, Robin's Pair Up). Sakurai, on the other hand, most likely did, hence why Ike is on the receiving end of Omnislash in the trailer.
** Corrin's inclusion in ''3DS/Wii U'' to promote ''VideoGame/FireEmblemFates'' was predated by Roy's appearance in ''Melee'' as a promotion for the then-upcoming ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemElibe Fire Emblem: The Blinding Blade]]''. The only difference is that Corrin's game was already out in Japan (but had yet to reach foreign shores) when he was confirmed.



* OneTrueThreesome:
** Ever since their reveal, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Mega Man have been put together in a massive amount of fan art.
** Because of their links together as the last 3 DLC characters in the fourth game, we have Cloud/Corrin/Bayonetta.



* PanderingToTheBase:
** ''3DS/Wii U'' takes immense steps to play accessibly to tournament fans. Almost every stage is available in a Final Destination-style format with a level playing field and no platforms or hazards; character movesets can be adjusted; characters with randomness involved are altered (Olimar's Pikmin now come out in a set order; transformations were given separate slots); and the online "For Glory" mode is a competitive selection with no items, the option for one-on-one fights[[note]]as opposed to 4-player free-for-alls only[[/note]], and utilizing Final Destination.
** This seems to be the most significant push in ''Ultimate'''s marketing; It brings back features from ''Melee'' such as its form of air-dodging, adding "Q" stages (similar to the Omega stages, but with the layout of Battlefield instead), and allowing the player to disable Stage Hazards, to aid the tournament community. But the game also brings back ''every'' playable character from previous entries (some of whom were highly requested to return, but especially Snake and Wolf), and also includes Ridley, a character who many fans had long-requested in the game. It also changes certain characters in other ways, such as Ganondorf, whose moveset finally implements his sword, and Pokemon Trainer, whose [[ScrappyMechanic fatigue and type damage mechanics]] were removed in response to complaints about them.
* PeripheryDemographic:
** There are plenty of competitive gamers playing what was originally meant to be a party game first and foremost.
** Franchise/PacMan's inclusion in the fourth game has been known to attract older adults (parents, grandparents, etc.) that fall outside the demographics that ''Smash'' is generally marketed towards, however broad. Obviously, as gaming's first true mascot (as well as the simplistic nature of his source game), this accounts for his popularity with adults who witnessed his success first hand.

to:

* PanderingToTheBase:
** ''3DS/Wii U'' takes immense steps to play accessibly to tournament fans. Almost every stage is available in a Final Destination-style format with a level playing field and no platforms or hazards; character movesets can be adjusted; characters with randomness involved are altered (Olimar's Pikmin now come out in a set order; transformations were given separate slots); and the online "For Glory" mode is a competitive selection with no items, the option for one-on-one fights[[note]]as opposed to 4-player free-for-alls only[[/note]], and utilizing Final Destination.
**
PanderingToTheBase: This seems to be the most significant push in ''Ultimate'''s marketing; It brings back features from ''Melee'' such as its form of air-dodging, adding "Q" stages (similar to the Omega stages, but with the layout of Battlefield instead), and allowing the player to disable Stage Hazards, to aid the tournament community. But the game also brings back ''every'' playable character from previous entries (some of whom were highly requested to return, but especially Snake and Wolf), and also includes Ridley, a character who many fans had long-requested in the game. It also changes certain characters in other ways, such as Ganondorf, whose moveset finally implements his sword, and Pokemon Trainer, whose [[ScrappyMechanic fatigue and type damage mechanics]] were removed in response to complaints about them.
* PeripheryDemographic:
**
PeripheryDemographic: There are plenty of competitive gamers playing what was originally meant to be a party game first and foremost.
** Franchise/PacMan's inclusion in the fourth game has been known to attract older adults (parents, grandparents, etc.) that fall outside the demographics that ''Smash'' is generally marketed towards, however broad. Obviously, as gaming's first true mascot (as well as the simplistic nature of his source game), this accounts for his popularity with adults who witnessed his success first hand.
foremost.



** Wii Fit Trainer, an unexpected character, was initially called a wasted character, until her trailer came out.
** Mewtwo, [[TierInducedScrappy in the competitive scene as one of the least-popular characters]] in ''Melee'', but one of the most missed characters from ''Brawl''. When it was announced to be returning as free DLC for the Wii U and 3DS games a few months after the release of the game, fans were ecstatic. This also vindicated its SuperMode of Mega Mewtwo Y, which was a BaseBreakingCharacter in the ''Pokémon'' fanbase for its strong association with the controversial ReplacementScrappy Mewtwo from ''Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened''. The fourth game gives it to the [[Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie original]] and far more beloved Mewtwo character, weakening the link.
** Many people weren't happy with Samus's CombatStilettos in ''VideoGame/MetroidOtherM''. How does Sakurai fix that? Turn them into much cooler-looking and mechanical ''rocket stilettos''. In fact, while still the subject of a BrokenBase, the ''Other M'' designs became a bit less of a BrownNote for some fans due to their being used in a context without any of the game's more controversial elements, with Samus keeping her classic personality and ''Brawl'' quotes rather than inexplicably switching to her ''Other M'' characterization.
** Pac-Man and Miis were not popular characters to suggest, and still have their share of hatred, but once their trailers were released, a lot of fans started warming up to them. Part of the case for Pac-Man's post-reveal upswing was that ''Smash'' uses a very traditional design for him, when many feared that he would have a hip modern redesign along the lines of the ''[[WesternAnimation/PacManAndTheGhostlyAdventures Ghostly Adventures]]'' cartoon and the Mii Fighters can allow you to either play as or beat up anyone that the Mii Maker is capable of creating.
** Many people who thought ''3DS'' would be inferior to the Wii U version came around to support it after the 2014 Comic-Con 3DS Tournament.
** The ''Duck Hunt'' dog is one of the most popular newcomers in the fourth game, despite being one of the most iconic Scrappies in video game history. Some of these reasons include finally giving players a chance [[TakeThatScrappy to beat him up]], reminding a lot of players of ''VideoGame/BanjoKazooie'' due to being paired up with a duck, referencing several NES games that used the Zapper in his moveset, and being the perfect {{Troll}} character thanks to his reputation and infamous laugh. It doesn't hurt that he looks quite a bit cuter compared to his original appearance, looking like a cartoon dog, and comparisons between him and Iggy from ''[[Manga/JoJosBizarreAdventure Stardust Crusaders]]''.
** Downplayed with Ganondorf. While he's one of the most iconic, popular, and badass video game villains of all time in [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda his home series]], he was hated for being a MovesetClone of Captain Falcon, for being bottom-tier in ''Brawl'', and for using none of the magical techniques or swordplay that the character is known for. Then ''[=SSB4=]'' [[ThrowTheDogABone threw him a bone]] by [[http://i.imgur.com/vYx9DVf.png giving him a custom neutral special where he uses the Sword of Sages,]] which is more true to his character, and some fans are finally satisfied with this change, though a decent number still want his moveset reworked to be more faithful. And his appearance in 'Ultimate' has made him more popular as he uses his sword for Smash Bros, making him a little faster, and using his younger appearance from ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime''.
** Dr. Mario, while he did have a rather small fanbase in ''Melee'', was generally considered among the least original and most lazy clones and was derided for his jumping height and recovery. Cue him making a [[TheBusCameBack surprising return two games later]], and many seem to be happy to have him back. The fact that he keeps his old down-special unlike Mario, adding another difference between the two, has been particularly well-received.
** Bowser. In ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'', he was always considered a bad, slow nonfunctional character, and in the former game even a candidate for the worst character in the game. In the fourth installment, he was both significantly buffed to be faster and hit harder than ever, and now resembles his in-universe incarnation (standing up straighter and with much brighter colors). His extreme damage and knockback outputs and heavy weight has earned him plenty of fans, while the patches also gave him a very effective setup throw that caused very high damage and could true combo into kills for a very long time, which working off of his amazing grab turned him into a very terrifying grappler that gets seen at the very top levels of competitive play.
** Bowser Jr. In [[VideoGame/SuperMarioSunshine his debut game]], he was derided for being a ReplacementScrappy to the Koopalings as well as being an annoying character in general. His appearance in ''Smash'', on the other hand, has been fairly well received due to his usage of the Koopa Klown Car setting him apart from other fighters. It helps that the previously mentioned Koopalings are also playable as alternate characters, along with his trailer making him (and the Koopalings) genuinely intimidating.



** F.L.U.D.D. was widely disliked for replacing Mario's Tornado in ''Brawl'' and being a charge move that doesn't even deal damage, only pushing the opponent back a few inches, leaving it mostly useless. The move was significantly buffed however by being given a much stronger pushing effect, which allows to be used effectively to gain stage control and to gimp opponents.



* SavedByTheFans: While Mewtwo and Lucas didn't make it into the initial roster for the ''3DS/Wii U'' iteration of the game, they were included as the first and second DLC characters due to fan request. This is particularly notable for Lucas, whose [[VideoGame/Mother3 home game]] was largely derided in Japan for [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks deviating too much]] from previous ''[=EarthBound=]'' games and only had a cult following overseas. Shortly after Lucas's announcement, a write-in poll for future DLC characters was implemented onto the main site, allowing potentially every character that had been cut from a previous game to return (in addition to possible newcomers).



** ''3DS/Wii U''
*** Unlocking custom moves is ''extremely'' tedious in this game. The only way you can unlock custom moves is by winning them as rewards in the single player modes, and that's mixed in with a bunch of costumes, equipment, and other trophies that are more cosmetic awards. And since there are 376 custom moves in total, that means you'll have to play single player a ''bunch'' in order to get every single one of them. What the worst part about all of it is that it's possible to get ''repeats'' of a custom move, which means there's a very high possibility that you could go through a perfect run of single player and not get any new moves out of it because the RandomNumberGod decided to screw you over. The fact that so few people will likely ever get every single custom move is the main reason people are wary of implementing them in TournamentPlay.
*** Equipment (often called "loot" for simplicity) has similar issues with acquisition; it works like a simplified VideoGame/{{Diablo}}, which in some aspects works great, but it means that two players will have a lot of trouble fighting each other on exactly even terms while still using fancy equipment - for example, maybe you want to speed up the game by equipping loot that adds up to +whatever to speed and as small as possible change to the other attributes, but the chances of both of you getting the exact same numbers for this are slim to nil, since in the 3DS version you can't trade or loan other's equipment, even while you're fighting with them (in the Wii U version, everyone can pick from a shared pool, but this equipment can't be passed on to other Wii Us). Also, the equipment could have been organized a little better, and you can't mark favourites like you can with powers. Fortunately, all this is completely optional in multi-player and not as problematic in single-player. A few final nails in the coffin are that you can still get worthless Level-1 equipment no matter how high your difficulty level is in Adventure, All-Star, and Master Orders. Turning the perceived belief that you have a better chance at getting rarer equipment on the hardest difficulties into a blatant lie.
*** Another complaint that many people have are the emphasized stage bosses/interferances in the game that turns the stage into "playing against each other" to "surviving against the stage". Notable hazards are [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime Koume & Kotake in Gerudo Valley]], [[VideoGame/MegaMan Yellow Devil in Wily's Castle]], [[VideoGame/{{MOTHER}} Flying Men in Magicant]], and the [[VideoGame/StreetPassMiiPlaza Dark Emperor from Find Mii]]. Many people feel like these bosses make the stage very obnoxious and unfun, and although there is an "Omega Form", people feel that it causes the stage to go in the other direction and become too boring. Many people were hoping for an off switch against these stage bosses. In the Wii U version, the Yellow Devil is still there, but we get [[VideoGame/{{Xenoblade}} Metal Face in Gaur Plain - although the stage is crazy enough already]], [[VideoGame/{{Metroid}} Ridley in Pyrosphere]] (many people thought that Pyrosphere was going to be a Neutral stage until Ridley was revealed), and [[VideoGame/NewSuperMarioBrosU Nabbit in Mushroom Kingdom U]]. Although not as bad as the 3DS version, Nabbit is considered to be very annoying as he pull a Boss Galaga/Beetle on opponents. To add insult to injury, the January 2015 patch for the Wii U version turns off stage hazards for some stages… but only so those stages can support matches with 5 or more players, with no actual switch available to turn them off for matches with fewer fighters.
*** The revamped C-stick/Right stick mechanics has come under a lot of criticism. The fact that it charges a Smash attack instead of throwing out an instant, uncharged Smash is seen as an obnoxious feature that hurts a previously convenient control feature. But this isn't as bad as the fact that using the C-stick to use a directional aerial causes you to halt your momentum. This would be justified for Robin, since he has the ability to use aerial Smash attacks, but the problem is that ''every'' character is subject to this inconvenience. Currently, the only way to alleviate this problem is to switch the C-stick from 'Smash' to 'Attack' which will allow you to keep your momentum while using the C-stick, but loses the ability to throw out a quick Smash attack.
*** In the initial 3DS release, vectoring. When launched by an attack, instead of traditional DI, you can direct the knockback you sustain by pressing the control stick towards where you wanted to go, including with and against the knockback by a significant amount. This had a practical effect similar to hitstun cancelling in ''Brawl''; you could effectively increase your launch distance when hit by setup moves, making combos very difficult to achieve, and you could effectively decrease your launch distance when hit by potential KO moves, allowing you to survive much longer, exacerbated by the stages in the 3Ds version having very large blastzones (characters could almost survive as long as characters with proper DI and momentum cancelling could in ''Brawl''). The first balance patch, version 1.0.4, that came with the release of the Wii U version, significantly nerfed the impact vectoring had on horizontal knockback, and completely eliminated the ability to vector vertically, making combos a lot more prevalent and [=KOs=] require a lot less damage.
*** The game having ledge trumping instead of edge-hogging; unlike prior games, where grabbing a ledge prevented another character from being able to grab it, a character will now be bumped back off the ledge if another character comes in contact with the ledge. Ledge trumping, when combined with the fact a trumped character won't have their ledge invincibility restored, can be used by edge-guarders to their advantage like edge-hogging. However, it's a lot more difficult to utilise in such a way, as a recovering character can always prevent being trumped by buffering a getup option when they grab the ledge, and a trumped character can act almost as fast as the trumper can. So for it to be successful, a trumper has to catch an opponent offguard, and then usually get a good read after that to convert off it. As such, many players lament the replacement of the much more simpler-yet-effective edge-hogging.
*** The mechanic known by fans as Rage; in Smash 4, as a character's damage rises, all their attacks start dealing gradually increasing knockback, capping at 150% damage where the attacks will have about a 15% knockback bonus. The simple effect is that characters can KO at lower damages the higher their own damage is. For why it's disliked by so many players varies; some deride it simply because they claim it's a "comeback mechanic" that "rewards" a player for "losing", while some others claim it unfairly rewards the ''winning player'' by giving the player who gets the first KO an advantage (as the player who [=KOs=] first will be damaged and thus have rage boosting their knockback, while the other player will be fresh and thus have to build their rage again). Then you have players who don't like it because it can make combos harder to pull off (or easier in certain cases), players who don't like the "jank" early [=KOs=] that can happen when the rage effect is applied to a move with especially high base knockback near a blastline (this is especially notorious with some multi-hitting recovery moves, where they tend to have initial hits that deal obscene set knockback to launch the opponent into the followup hits, which can then potentially KO at ridiculously early damages when they get boosted by rage and miss the followup hits, as seen in this [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faXnOd-RC7s infamous video]]), and players who don't like it because it detracts from Lucario's signature gimmick.
*** In the Wii U version only, you can't change the default controls. Instead, you have to associate any control changes to a nameplate, which then has to be selected ''every time you start playing any mode'' if you want to keep your customized controls. A less important but related lack-of-feature is that the Wii U version won't remember the most recent PaletteSwap you've used with each character, even if you do enter your name. However, this has been changed in the patch that added Mewtwo, where nameplates are saved for each controller port.
*** The fact that saved replay videos become unusable whenever the game is updated. With both versions having seen dozens of updates, it becomes pointless to even save replays of fights when another update is surely around the corner.
*** DLC characters being integrated into the All-Star mode. It makes the mode and the challenges associated with it a bit tougher to complete, especially since they're congregated in certain stages. Also, despite DLC characters being downloaded in patches whether one buys them or not (so they can be fought against online), the DLC opponents still don't appear in All-Star unless purchased, possibly giving people reason to delete and re-download their DLC repeatedly, as they get more points with the DLC but easier challenges without.
*** Smash Run occasionally has Enemy Fests, where every onscreen enemy disappears to make way for waves of a specific type of enemy. On paper, it doesn't sound too bad, and a [[MetalSlime Souflee]] Fest is extremely welcome. However, the player might have been about to defeat a strong enemy like a Darknut or a Clubberskull after a grueling battle, only for it to suddenly be replaced with Shy Guys or Bullet Bills, and thus denied a great bounty of stat boosts, while keeping the accrued damage and waste of several powers.
*** Characters throwing away shooting items after they run out of ammo. In previous games, once you knew an item had run out, you could then take the opportunity to throw it at another player. This time, however, unless you are good at keeping track, it is all too easy to throw the item away by accident.



* SpecialEffectsFailure:
** An unfortunate side-effect of the 3DS's limitations, animations for Assist Trophies and Pokéball Pokemon in ''Smash for 3DS'' run at 30 frames per second while the rest of the game runs twice as fast, making them appear to move more choppily than the rest of the game. This is especially obvious with Nintendog since it takes up the whole screen. Olimar's Pikmin are also weighed down by this limitation, and the effect is more glaringly obvious, since Pikmin are in constant play.
** Unlike the other characters with capes or flowing outfits in the 3DS version, Cloud's "Cloudy Wolf" outfit's coat end and belts are seemingly attached to Cloud's leg and don't move like the capes do, which looks strange.



** While it was said that the fourth installment's gameplay would be a mix of ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'', many fans are already decried it for not immediately appealing to their playstyle. The effect worsened with the actual demo, with a few irrational fans throwing out "Brawl 2.0" for it not being exactly what they want. To be fair, ''some'' of the issues that held back ''Brawl'''s gameplay (such as [[ScrappyMechanic random tripping]]) have been fixed, but other issues (such as the butchered dash-dancing, the amount of landing lag for aerial attacks, and how long it takes for someone to be [=KOed=]) are still present.
** [[http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/689/536/799.jpg Lucario's return in Smash Bros. 4]] caused this for certain fans who view it as a substitute for Mewtwo in ''Brawl'' and were anticipating a quick return for Mewtwo. Greninja also caught some of this due to its trailer being framed in a manner to suggest Mewtwo being confirmed, as his silhouetted pose greatly resembled Mewtwo's silhouette.
** The ''Smash'' Direct had this in regards to Ridley, one of the most highly-requested characters in the ''Smash'' and ''Metroid'' communities. When the Direct implied that Ridley would return as a boss, the fanbase was predictably scattered in pieces, with many Ridley fans calling foul on Sakurai for "misleading" them after months of speculation.[[note]]When the Pyrosphere was revealed, it was the least-hyped stage out of all of those revealed for ''Wii U/3DS'' because of its connection to ''Other M'' and Ridley himself (whether it meant he was playable or not). After months had passed since its reveal, fans were starting to speculate that because Ridley hadn't been revealed for so long, that the Miiverse post which indirectly referred to him without using his name was only making a reference to what happened in the original game itself. When his shadow appeared on the Pyrosphere ''just'' after Sakurai explained how Yellow Devil worked on Wily's Castle, all hell broke loose.[[/note]]
** Some detractors of [[Anime/{{Pokemon}} the Pokémon anime series]] hoped that ''3DS/Wii U'' wouldn't use voices and portrayals from the series [[GrandfatherClause as has been tradition]]. When it was shown that the game would continue to use anime portrayals for Pokémon (particularly Greninja having unexpectedly silly and childish PokemonSpeak), some fans took issue. This was mostly rectified when Mewtwo was confirmed to be based on its portrayal from [[Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie the first movie]] and ''Melee''; given that the anime had introduced [[Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened a second, more controversial Mewtwo]] as a ReplacementScrappy and that the original Mewtwo hadn't been used in any material since 2001, its return came as a pleasant surprise for nostalgic fans.
** Similar to the Ridley example, the reveal of [[VideoGame/DonkeyKongCountry King K. Rool]] as a Mii costume caused many fans to become disillusioned with the game and/or [[ScapegoatCreator Sakurai himself]] and soured K. Rool fans' expectations and opinions of the Smash Ballot.



* ThatOneAchievement:
** The Challenges in the Wii U version make the Challenges in the 3DS Version look like a walk in the park. Almost all of the ones in the top two rows that aren't of the "collect all X" variety are downright nasty. Here's a sampler:
*** Clear Classic Mode on [[NintendoHard 9.0]] Difficulty without losing a single life[[note]]For added difficulty, a Golden Hammer can't be used on this challenge[[/note]].
*** Clear Classic on intensity 9.0 without any customizations.
*** Clear Classic on intensity 9.0 with Marth within 12 minutes.
*** Clear All-Star Mode on Hard with all characters[[note]]This is especially hard if you've downloaded all of the DLC characters[[/note]].
*** Clear the true Solo All-Star mode on hard while playing as Duck Hunt[[note]]This is especially hard if you've downloaded all of the DLC characters. A Golden Hammer can't be used on this challenge, either[[/note]].
*** Clear [[ThatOneLevel Kirby's]] [[NintendoHard Crazy]] [[TimedMission Appetite]] on Hard.
*** Score more than four [=KOs=] in Cruel Smash with Pit.
*** Play Cruel Smash alone with Luigi and survive for a single minute.
*** Score more than eight [=KOs=] in Cruel Smash, first with anyone and then with Lucina. [[note]]Golden Hammers can't be used on the one that requires Lucina.[[/note]]
*** Hit the Sandbag between 1640 and 1656 feet in Home-Run Contest with R.O.B.
*** Complete the reward conditions for all of the Solo Events[[note]]Which includes beating the aforementioned ''Kirby's Crazy Appetite'' on Hard.[[/note]].
*** Clear "Crazy Orders" after surviving 20 rounds as Mario[[note]]There's a hard-capped ten minute time limit, meaning that you'd have to clear each round in less than 30 seconds a pop, made even more difficult by Mario not being overly powerful in terms of raw damage, and the tendency for the game to throw time-consuming Giant and Metal enemies in later rounds, as well as 20+ enemy Horde Battles which make this virtually impossible. Additionally the damage carries over between rounds, minus a percentile-based healing, meaning that without KO Healer or Lifesteal customizations it's VERY hard to even LIVE that long. And even then, you'd STILL have to beat the Hands, who have copious AI support at that level-- and IF KO Healer or Lifesteal came into play, putting you at low damage when you started the final round, you start with less health for the final boss due to the way the final round's HP is calculated. Not to mention that a [[LuckBasedMission single bad item spawn]] can quickly spoil a perfect run, so if a Giant enemy picks up a Hammer, kiss that run goodbye, let alone some of the stage hazards.[[/note]].
*** Break 50,000 blocks in Trophy Rush [[note]]Not difficult in itself, but this challenge is extremely time consuming [[FakeLongevity since you have no way of keeping track]] of how many blocks you've broken until you've hit 50,000 blocks.[[/note]].
* ThatOneAttack:
** In ''3DS/Wii U'', Master Hand has a new attack not seen in previous games; he throws out several orange cards onto the platform, before each one rises up off of the screen in an attempt to lift your character into the upper blast line. Unlike most other attacks, this can very quickly KO your character regardless of your percentage if you cannot get off of them quick enough. And Crazy Hand's grab can bury you into a card.
** The Mii Gunner's Forward Smash and Up-Air when fighting the Fighting Mii Team, especially in [[NintendoHard Cruel Smash]] and on Intensity 9.0. These attacks have ridiculous range, the hitbox hit multiple times and lasts a long time and they have a huge amount of hitstun. This can cause a lot of Mii's to rank up your damage extremely quickly, See more on the Mii Gunner on Demonic Spiders above.
** All-Star mode in ''3DS/Wii U'' have a few attacks that stand out as frequent sources of Game Overs. Charizard's Flare Blitz has high knockback and can come from far away, and its CastFromHitPoints property doesn't mitigate much in this mode. Ness's PK Flash can easily end a run unless it's looked out for. Dedede's Gordos are fast, long range, and dangerous if not hit back at him, and he loves using them in All-Star. Projectiles in general, in fact, are utter hell, as unlike your foes' melee attacks, ''they are not nerfed''. This extends to anything the game ''considers'' to be a projectile, like Villager's Forward Smash, '''all of Olimar's attacks that involve Pikmin''' and surprisingly Ness's Yo-Yo. Each version also has a couple of stage hazards that are tricky to avoid and deliver high knockback should the stage be selected; The Wii U's F-Zero racers may be the worst in that regard. Fortunately, the moves that ''would'' be the worst, such as Little Mac's Knockout Punch, have their knockback removed in All-Star. But of course, Mega Man's Charge Shot (his forward smash) is indeed a powerful contender for this spot since it's fast, doesn't even need charging up due to all the damage you may have racked up, and is a projectile so it doesn't have the melee damage reduction.
** Some Assist Trophies and Poké Ball Pokémon can be very annoying to deal with.
*** Sheriff fires bullets that hit very hard (15% damage per hit and a decent knockback even at fairly low damage percentages), which, while not horribly difficult to dodge period, are extremely hard to get through until he despawns without getting hit at least once. If he does hit you, he'll frequently keep firing at you and rack up plenty of damage with a combo this way. The fact that he remains on-screen for quite a long time (about 25 seconds) considering how powerful his attacks can be, it's very easy to get [=KOed=] if your opponent summons it.
*** Zoroark teleports next to its target and attempts to hit them with what is essentially Greninja's Final Smash. It does a ton of damage and unlike other enemies with similar attack styles, it doesn't give up if it misses the first time and will try again several more times.
*** Skull Kid is a different version, as unlike most other Assist Trophies, his effects will almost always have a negative impact on everyone on the field, including the one that summoned him.
*** Keldeo has slash attacks that not only take up about a third of the screen on smaller stages, but also have a big enough knockback to put people in danger of [=KOs=] at relatively low damage.
*** The Color TV-Game 15, which places almost the entire screen in the middle of a {{VideoGame/Pong}}-alike, where the players who didn't summon it will spend almost as much time being knocked around as the ball. It hits hard, can hit anywhere on the screen, and due to taking things like level geography into account in the game, the way the ball moves is almost completely unpredictable.
* ThatOneBoss:
** Master Hand and Crazy Hand:
*** ''3DS/Wii U'': While the two are stronger than ever, the engine has hampered them via faster game speed and forgiving dodge mechanics. In their stead is Master Core, fought once the Hands' HP has been reduced by 25%, and boy is it one hell of a boss. Master Core hides its high HP in a black swarm, has difficult-to-avoid attacks with not-so-obvious telegraphing (especially Master Giant and Master Edges), and has up to four forms that each take a while to beat. It has a little less HP per form in the ''Wii U'' version for a given intensity level, but on intensity 8.0 or higher, there will be an extra form to worry about: Master Fortress. First of all, want some practice? Too bad, you need to defeat all of Master Core's forms at high difficulty just to attempt this thing. How about the battle itself? Well, as the name implies, you have to enter it, and the obstacles within are absolutely merciless and have no problem trapping you into [[CycleOfHurting Cycles of Hurting]] until you're at a ripe 100%, then knock you into a Danger Wall or acid pool that are an instant KO at that value. For each section, you have to reach and destroy a core. Half of the cores are ''two feet away from a Danger Wall''. Think you're coming in ahead because you didn't lose a life against Master Core? Think again.
*** Master Edges counts as That One Form, especially compared to the ones that come before. While Master Giant has relatively weak attacks that are unpredictable and hard to dodge, and Master Beast has slow, choreographed attacks that hit hard and launch far, this form combines the worst of both worlds, throwing out ridiculously powerful attacks (especially if they come from the main sword) at light speed with almost no tells. Suffice to say that most of your game overs to this boss will be against the swords.
** Duck Hunt can be a pain to unlock in ''Wii U''. One of their unlock methods is to get one KO in [[HarderThanHard Cruel Smash]], and the other one is to do 100 VS battles. Both of these requirements will cause the character's AI to be turned up to a surprisingly high level, not helped by the fact that their variety of projectiles can make it difficult for some characters to get a hit in.
** Of all the stage bosses across ''3DS/Wii U'', Ridley on the Pyrosphere stage especially stands out. Whereas the other stage bosses, such as Yellow Devil and the Dark Emperor, have periods where they stand around for a few seconds, leaving themselves vulnerable, Ridley is in constant motion, and his attacks are far more powerful than the other stage bosses, especially when he moves along the floor constantly swiping his claws, possibly taking out some of the smaller platforms in the process. And then when he clings onto either edge of the stage and absorbs energy to become Meta Ridley, he becomes ''even stronger''. God help you if an opponent attacks Ridley enough so that he joins on their side and teams up on you.
** Super Smash Bros Wii U's [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTjpzdcecD8 final Co-Op Event]] makes Brawl's [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bSB7KG5qw final Co-Op event]] look like a joke. Both events are a BossRush which involves fighting every single character … the Wii U version has about 50 or so characters as compared to Brawl's 35 … and there are no items to help you out like the Brawl version. Remember those free [=KOs=] you got on that Final Smash? Well, this time it's based on skill and skill only. Little Mac and Lucario are two characters you should really take caution of, as Little Mac can sneak in a [=OHKO=] Punch on you while Lucario is more powerful when he accumulates a lot of damage. Not helping is the fact that a large number of fighters have fast counters that can easily blindside you when you least expect it, though Lucario's at least has the disadvantage of being relatively weak when he's at a low damage percentage. The Normal difficulty is tolerable, but the Hard difficulty is one of the hardest in the game. Thankfully, it is not mandatory for Challenges.
** Any properly built level 50 amiibo can become an absolute nightmare. A PerfectPlayAI that is simply faster, stronger, ''and'' more resilient than any player character, possibly combined with brutal special abilities like regeneration. [[WebVideo/{{Vinesauce}} Vinesauce Vinny's]] [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opPKgY43Zwk experiences]] with his Link amiibo puts things into perspective.



*** Once the fanbase got over their initial excitement and started actually playing the stage, Wily's Castle in the fourth game drew some flack for this. The chief complaint is that the Yellow Devil's attacks are simply too difficult to dodge (yes, even compared to the source material), and the boss takes up too much of the stage, leaving very little room for people to actually play. Worse, while the stage looks just fine visually, the actual layout is a bit lackluster compared to some of the more dynamic stages. Expanding on this, every stage with a "boss" is almost universally hated, since they interfere with the fight and cause unneeded chaos when the players are trying to focus on each other, forcing them to turn on Omega Mode and turn Wily's Castle into a flat, unexciting stage devoid of the unique platforms it would have with Omega Mode off. Guar Plains is a particularly notable case, due to both the stage boss Metal Face being very large and hard-hitting and because of the large gap in the middle of the stage, which only has three semi-solid platforms on each side.
*** Magicant in the 3DS version, due to the presence of the Flying Men. They have one fixed spawn location, provide help to the first player to touch them, and pack quite a nasty punch. Matches quickly turn into something closer to King of the Hill than ''Smash Bros.'', at least until the five Flying Men per match are all killed off, but by that point the match is usually decided. However, the stage still gets praise for its beautiful visuals and soundtrack, and being the first ''[=EarthBound=]'' stage to reference [[VideoGame/EarthBoundBeginnings the original game]].
*** The ''3DS'' version of Mute City, mostly for taking the moving platform design of the first Mute City stage and splitting it to two platforms that drift apart and together seemingly at random. There are also two cars underneath them that will often zoom offscreen very suddenly and kill anyone unlucky enough to be standing on them. It also doesn't help that the two upper platforms, which are the safest to stand on in the stage, are fall-through, meaning it's very easy to accidentally drop through them and slam into the road while going for a down attack. That said, the stage was still fairly well received.
*** Paper Mario in ''3DS'' is a transforming stage with three versions. The third version, Bowser's Castle, is very annoying. The only footing in this phase are two up-and-down platforms set far apart from each other with quite a bit of vertical movement and a giant, rotating Bowser head that isn't safe to stand still on for more than a few seconds at a time. The fighters are generally shoved to the outside platforms, which are barely big enough to hold a fight anyway. In a case of ArsonMurderAndJaywalking, the stage also earns ire from longtime ''Paper Mario'' fans for being mostly based on the much-reviled ''Sticker Star'' with only one transformation alluding to ''The Thousand Year Door'', despite Masahiro Sakurai's Pic of the Day promising that it would be representative of the ''Paper Mario'' franchise as a whole.
*** Pac Land on the Wii U. Many people hate the design for being overall ugly, criticizing it for being "something made on MS Paint" (although it was based on the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pac-Land the arcade game of the same name]]), and it involves side-scrolling and has some annoying hazards.
*** Smashville on the Wii U version for competitive players, not because of any annoying hazards or anything like that, but because of how ''often'' it is played. To explain, the first stage of a match is decided by each player striking out from the 3 available starter stages, Battlefield, Final Destination, and Smashville. Final Destination is already infamous for giving a big advantage to projectile spam characters and being the only stage available for For Glory, so it's usually struck out first. Battlefield's three platform layout greatly aids combo-oriented characters, and the ledges have been known to be finicky at times. This kind of hate most likely wouldn't be as great if Smashville itself had more dynamic visuals and music, being based off of the calm and peaceful ''VideoGame/AnimalCrossing'' series with calm music as well. Bizarrely, it's ''only'' Smashville that is the subject of hate; the similarly designed and equally low-key Town & City stage doesn't get nearly as much vitriol.
** Event matches:
*** "Aura Mastery" is one of the hardest events in the game, as it relies heavily on LuckBasedMission. In the mission, you take on Wii Fit Trainer and Sheik with Lucario alone. Doesn't seem like a big deal, right? Here's the kicker: You start the level at '''''200% damage''''', which means even the Wii Fit Trainer's volleyballs can blast you away. Additionally, Wii Fit Trainer and Sheik are '''[[{{Invisibility}} invisible]]''', which means you have to fight two foes at once, at a percent you can easily be KO'd from, and you ''can't even see them''. While the event gives you two stocks, they get two as well. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re8XwLYmEfg See for yourself what an ordeal this is.]] You have to either be a ledge camping master or pray that the Smash Gods are kind to you provide you with items to improve your odds like the Metal Cap, Lanayru Beetle, or Home Run Bat to have any chance of winning this.
*** "Kirby's Crazy Appetite", an Event match in the Wii U version, is extremely hated by many because you're Kirby and, on the hard difficulty, you have to heal yourself to 0% … from 140%, and a gang of Dededes are chasing after you … and the Event Match is timed. To make matters worse, it takes place in the ''humongous'' Great Cave Offensive stage; even with a big HD TV, food entering the stage can easily be missed, and though you can pause to check out the area, actually doing so is painfully tedious. Since the camera is dynamic, food, danger zones, and mine carts barreling at Kirby could be right next to him and still off-camera. You have two minutes. Food is scarce in the first minute. In the second minute, there's a little more food (still far from plentiful), but then ''more'' Dededes enter, for a total of ''five'', and now ''they eat the food''. Sound annoying yet? Well, there's also the fact that it's very much a LuckBasedMission, for many reasons[[note]]a) food appears in random locations, b) big containers containing three food items can appear, but very rarely, how many you'll get and where is random, c) the actual food items that appear are random; you could get the 15%-healing roast chicken, but far more often it will be one of many food types that only heal for 2 or 3%, d) The King Dededes are at just a level where they might walk right past you, or might decide to make Kirby's life hell, and you don't have very much control over that if they're near the food you need, [[OverlyLongGag e!)]] treasure chests still have a chance of being booby trapped and containers still have a 1\8 chance of exploding, in both cases providing no food and possibly damaging Kirby[[/note]]. There's supposed to be an EasyLevelTrick: inhale Dedede to copy his inhale ability, which increases the healing power of food. Though, the process of inhaling food this way is so cumbersome for the small benefit that, depending on the player, it might be harder to win this way. The Easy and Medium versions are also among the hardest when compared to other events at the same difficulty, even if you don't bother with customizations on other events (they're allowed in most events, but not this one). It also doesn't help that [[MostAnnoyingSound the music track is the same during each try of the event]] ("Through the Forest"), and after a while of resetting so you can complete it, it gets really annoying.
*** "Unwavering Chivalry" hasn't won any fans either. In this event, you're Meta Knight on the Halberd and your goal is to KO Marth without KO'ing Peach or Zelda. Unfortunately for you, the ladies are ridiculously aggressive and Marth even more so, and when he's not joining in on the beatdown, Marth is constantly hiding behind them. Even worse, the princess' launch rate is much higher than usual, and an uncharged smash attack can KO them at as little as 25%, making accidental losses extremely easy. And to get the reward, you have to do it on hard difficulty. It is possible to win this one ''completely by accident'' by leaving Marth behind when the platform launches upwards to the sky portion of the stage, but the chances of replicating this is fairly slim.
*** "It's Past Your Bedtime!" is an exercise in masochism, even if you're good at playing with Jigglypuff. You have to use Sing to put three opponents to sleep all at once. Sing has very short range, only works on grounded opponents, Jigglypuff is immobile and vulnerable while using it, and even at point-blank it can be easily blocked. Furthermore, Jigglypuff can under the best circumstances put only two opponents to sleep at once, forcing you to chase down the third opponent before the others awaken. And of the three opponents, only Bowser Jr. tries fighting back - Ness and Toon Link run at every opportunity, and Jigglypuff's atrocious speed makes them nearly impossible to catch. And to top it all off, this takes place on the Gamer stage - while getting caught by Mom can damage opponents, making them sleep longer, it can also easily KO them, letting them respawn with full health and undoing all your hard work. Not to mention it can also damage those that are ''ALREADY ASLEEP, WAKING THEM UP''! The only good thing about this is that there is no time limit -- but Jigglypuff only has one stock, making it very easy for Bowser Jr. or Mom to end it all with a cheap shot.
*** "When Lightning Strikes" is another annoying example of a LuckBasedMission. You have to KO 3 giant Pikachu as a small Pikachu, and for the reward you have to do it in under a minute. You're supposed to use the Lightning item to even the odds in your favour… but Lightning has a chance of backfiring and either doing nothing, making you ''even smaller'' or making all your foes ''even bigger''. Hitting one of those random chances is basically an auto-fail when going for the reward.
*** "That Elusive 9" is not kidding about the "elusive" part. As Mr. Game & Watch, you have to KO another Mr. Game & Watch by using the character's forward special and pray that the attack rings a 9 for an instant KO. The problem? It's a pure LuckBasedMission. The opponent has permanent metal status so that you don't accidentally KO him easily and the stage will spawn only Pitfalls and Deku Nuts to help you immobilize him, but it offers little comfort when you're sitting there spamming the required attack until the 9 pops up. Knocking out your opponent by any other method won't count and his damage will be reset to 0% if it happens.[[labelnote:Protip]]If you've just started the match, your chances of getting a 9 are actually one in seven. Also, if you get a 9 but miss, the next two forward specials won't be a 9, so feel free to waste them.[[/labelnote]]
*** "Fitness Junkie" on Hard. You're the Wii Fit Trainer and you're up against two giant Warios. They hit hard enough and take up enough of the screen that they can easily KO you in under ten seconds. On top of that, it spawns food for them to heal themselves and they rack up damage on you too quickly for it to help you very much. And to top it all off, guess what difficulty you have to play the event on to earn its reward. Hint: it's not "Easy."
*** "Keep 'Em Off the Ship!" requires you (and a buddy) to defeat several waves of Mr. Game and Watch as Fox and Falco. The problem is that in order to win, ''not a single enemy character can make contact with the stage''; if one manages to slip by, [[NintendoHard it's an automatic Game Over]]. Both partners have to be in perfect synch with one another in order to deal with the sheer number of enemies coming in from all sides - if you're off by even a millisecond it's all over - and for this reason it's considered to be one of the most challenging co-op levels in the game. A similar event exists in single-player mode, but it's far easier since less Mr. Games and Watches show up.
*** In general, a lot of events that require the player to beat them on hard and/or in a very short amount of time to earn their rewards draw ire from players.
** All-Star Mode
*** The entirety of the mode in ''3DS/Wii U''. The sheer amount of characters you have to face (every character you've unlocked except for DLC you haven't purchased, having less recovery than ''Brawl'' (one special fully-healing Heart Container [two after unlocking all characters], one Fairy Bottle, and one Maxim Tomato compared to ''Brawl'''s three special Heart Containers), and no longer being given the option to continue from a loss with a penalty to score and prizes makes this iteration a nightmarish MarathonLevel that can be extremely difficult to complete even at the lowest settings. Special mention goes to the 1994-1998, 2001-2006 & 2007-2015 stages, which have had numerous DLC characters added to each of them post-launch (Mewtwo & Cloud for the first one, Roy & Lucas for the second one and Corrin & Bayonetta for the third one) as well as some stages that can serve as major hindrances, such as Magicant in the 3DS version of the former stage and Mario Circuit in the Wii U version of the latter stage. Thankfully, you can easily throw opponents into the blast lines on Mario Circuit & Eldin Bridge in the Wii U version, but you'd also run the risk of being quickly KO'd yourself.



** "Engage the Enemy", a song from ''VideoGame/{{Xenoblade}}'', was included in Smash Bros. But a few parts of the audio were cut, causing the song to change jarringly as a result -- so much that it even sounds kind of ''bad''.
** Some of the longer songs from ''Melee'', returning for the Wii U version, have been edited down to the now customary 2-minute length, even though this wasn't deemed necessary for ''Brawl'', which had much less disc space. The [[VideoGame/DonkeyKong64 DK Rap]] and [[VideoGame/{{Earthbound}} Pollyanna]] are the most notable victims of this. Players of ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemTellius Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn]]'' will notice that Crimean Army Sortie and Ike's Theme are also cut short. Even worse, despite Switch cartridges having much more storage space than 3DS ones and the game itself only being available on one platform, it's the neutered versions that made it into ''Ultimate'' instead of the originals.
** Making Mega Man's nickname on the Wii U game's Boxing Ring stage "Blue Metal Hero" received much outcry from fans who thought that he should have had his official nickname "The Blue Bomber" or "[[WesternAnimation/MegaMan Super Fighting Robot]]". It didn't help that Sonic actually had his official nickname "The Blue Blur" on said stage. The European release of the game corrected the title to the former… but changed Sonic's nickname from "The Blue Blur" to "Speed Is His Game", causing an outcry from ''other'' fans.
** Fox's and Falco's voices were well-liked in ''Brawl'', but they were recast to their voices from the ''VideoGame/StarFox64'' 3DS remake for ''3DS/Wii U''. Both voices are widely considered to be inferior to their predecessors (Fox especially). Part of the issue comes from the differences in vocal talent required for ''Star Fox 64'' 's script and the generic grunts from the ''Super Smash Bros.'' games, which Fox & Falco's latest (or earliest, depending on how you look at it) English [=VAs=] were unsuited for.
** The Wii U version's Classic Mode has been getting a lot of flak for changing and/or removing certain elements. Such elements include having a less interesting way to progress Classic mode, removing stadium modes between fights, not having themed battles (at least not intentionally, you could still have fighters on related stages but it comes from random luck), and more opponents per round on average with a dependence on the [[RandomNumberGod RNG]] for what kind of battles you face (you have limited control over how many opponents you face for rounds 1, 2, and 4, but whether you get a team battle or a chaotic free-for-all is up to chance, and you're unlikely to get any more than two 1v1s out of five battles, if that).
** The Palutena's Guidance conversations in ''Wii U'' are disliked by some as replacements for the Snake codec calls in ''Brawl''. A lot of people miss seeing ''Metal Gear'' characters, a series so far removed from anything Nintendo, react to the cartoony antics of the rest of the cast (such as Roy Campbell talking about Wario's weaponized flatulence and Snake's subsequent [[WhoWritesThisCrap disbelief]]) compared to the more fantastical ''Kid Icarus'' characters making jokes or dumb statements, and overall putting less focus on the characters Pit is fighting and even more spotlight on his already [[SpotLightStealingSquad highly represented]] franchise. It also doesn't help that DLC characters have the same conversation clip for each of them (including Lucas, who Pit shouldn't have forgotten about, since they both started in ''Brawl'').



** The returning stage builder in the Wii U version no longer uses the block-based building system from ''Brawl'', instead requiring the player to draw out the stage using the touch screen. This makes it difficult to precisely design platforms, even if it gives more freedom in the overall design process. There also aren't as many stage hazards to place as were in ''Brawl'', with ladders and conveyer belts taken out entirely. This makes designing stages specifically for collecting music [=CDs=] both less visually appealing and also less precise.
** Sandbag no longer dropping [=CDs=], for that matter. Now the only way is for them to spawn randomly or to be dropped by Mew, meaning [=CD=] factories are focused on making Master Balls land in a predictable spot.



** The Wii Fit Trainer. The porcelain white skin and eyes actually ''heightens'' how creepy and unnatural she seems to be (enough for her to be occasionally compared to [[Franchise/TheSlenderManMythos Slender Man]], of all things). Doesn't stop SelfFanservice and RuleThirtyFour from happening, however. Her ''Ultimate'' appearance gives her more defined facial features, significantly toning down the creepiness.
** Mega Man has choppy animation that emulates his 8-bit sprites while also emphasizing his robotic qualities. He also has a (sort of) ThousandYardStare as a default expression. Since his default stance is to stand perfectly still, entering his customization screen in ''4'' gives him almost looking frozen in place, while everyone else is moving.
** Villager always has the same cheery facial expression, to the point where its uncanniness made him a [[MemeticMutation memetic]] psychopath. Also gets a ThousandYardStare just like Mega Man.



** Bowser Jr.'s Clown Car, as usual, has a slightly creepy face, especially when attacking. The Koopalings' versions take this a step further by replacing the bead eyes with [[GlowingEyesOfDoom glowing yellow headlights]]. The trailer makes all seven Koopalings look intimidating and creepy, especially at the end.
** Most of the Koopalings count, to some degree, despite having cartoonish, silly designs. While Bowser Jr. has BlackBeadEyes that can't really point in any direction and Roy wears sunglasses to the same effect, the other Koopalings don't have their eyes rigged up properly (possibly as a result of being alternate costumes), so they always point straight ahead in some kind of thousand-yard stare.
** As far as assist trophies go, there's the disembodied holographic head of Dr. Kawashima, which is proportioned and detailed in such a way that he looks far more human than the other characters (primarily because [[http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/nintendo/images/d/db/Ryuta_Kawashima.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140214200914&path-prefix=en Ryuta Kawashima]] is actually a real-life neuroscientist), but he's made of such large polygons that he clearly seems off. He also faces the screen directly and doesn't change his expression save for an unnaturally big smile.



** Compare any Mii Fighters with those in the background of the Tomodachi Life-stage. On the 3DS at least, the background Miis are of lower quality ''and'' have a different enough anatomy that it becomes rather creepy. Those oversized heads…
** Most of the characters from the Wii version of ''Punch-Out'' have the game's signature cel-shaded art style. The exceptions are Little Mac himself and Doc Louis. While Mac was given a decent makeover to match the rest of Smash 4's art style, the decision to have Doc Louis appear with Mac in his victory poses and thus match the art style as well seems to have been made late in development, as his model isn't nearly as polished. Doc's skin has an unnatural, plastic look to it, and his face is blank and unexpressive, considering how emotive he was in the Wii game.
** Ganondorf in the 3DS and Wii U games has this problem in close ups. When the victory camera zooms in on his face, he looks ''very'' bug-eyed.



* UnderusedGameMechanic: The Mii Fighters in ''Super Smash Bros for Wii U and 3DS''. It is at its core a great idea, offering the possibility to create your own smasher, but in the game itself it is very difficult to really make the character you want as its characteristics and even cosmetic elements are unlocked via very frustrating {{Random Drop}}s. To add to this, the Mii Fighters aren't even available to play online in "With Anyone" mode, needlessly limiting their interest for hardcore players. Similarly, the Custom Moves are also given at random, could obtain duplicates, and are not available online with anyone either, though Mii characters and Palutena (who have radically different specials) have all of them available at the start. The [[DownloadableContent DLC]] characters don't even have Custom Moves, which make one question if Nintendo itself completely dropped the idea. As for Equipment, while the idea sounds good on paper (customization of your characters stats and give them new abilities), it is a total GameBreaker in practice, and is mainly used to cheese through Crazy Orders in order to unlock the tediously-obtainable aforementioned Custom Moves. [[labelnote:*]]In fact, the Direct implies their absolute exclusion in ''Ultimate'', by showing some of Palutena's specials have been "streamlined", such as her default Down Special and her default Side Special being combined into a reflect/counter hybrid, and the possible note of Miis being playable online. And Equipment doesn't even get a passing mention.[[/labelnote]]



** UpToEleven in the 3DS iteration, which pushes the system's graphical capabilities to their limits. Whether it's a faithful recreation of Mode 7-style scrolling for [[VideoGame/FZero Mute City]] or the dimensional tear in [[VideoGame/EarthBoundBeginnings Magicant]], each stage (including the aforementioned Final Destination) looks amazing, and that's before mentioning the fact that it all runs at a silky-smooth 60 frames per second, ''with full 3D on''! This does come at a cost: the game pushes the 3DS's processing power so hard that [[note]]on the original Nintendo 3DS[[/note]] a number of features on the home menu (most notably Miiverse) have to be disabled to free up more power.
** The other two eighth-gen consoles have a number of highly anticipated games that struggle to render single player at 900p & 30 FPS. Smash 4 Wii U is able to support up to 8 players at once, at 60 FPS, at true 1080p (higher than 1080p if you take into account that it also streams to the gamepad in real time), [[NeverTrustATrailer/VideoGames in real life]], on a console with roughly a quarter as much RAM reserved for games and much lower processing power overall.



** During a certain point in the fourth game's development, there were some people who complained about the amount of Nintendo characters in comparison to [[GuestFighter non-Nintendo characters]] (primarily due to a lack of confirmed information from the development team about the game's roster). They seem to have died down, though.
** Bayonetta ended up being TheUnexpected victor of the Voters Ballot. Going by message boards posts in the fandom, you'd assume someone like Wolf, King K. Rool, or Banjo were the front runners. Sakurai revealed that not only did Bayonetta finish within the top 5 votes in North America, but was the outright most voted in EU, and the #1 pick worldwide that they could reasonably obtain.



** ''3DS/Wii U'' is trying to do this for players that prefer ''Melee'' without alienating fans of ''Brawl''. [[BrokenBase For the]] [[VocalMinority most part]] it worked.



* {{Woolseyism}}:
** You know those puns in the English character reveal trailers, like "Little Mac punches in!" or "Charizard fires it up!"? In the Japanese versions, those were all "[character name] 参戦[[note]]''sansen''[[/note]]!", literally "[character name] joins the battle!" Only Mega Man's trailer uses a similar phrase in both Japanese and English.
** The trophy descriptions seem to rely on this in the 3DS version, as the one for the Pokemon Trainer goes all-out in WaxingLyrical about the original English theme song and a lot of trophies in general rely on wordplay and puns in their English descriptions.
** Bowser Jr. and all the Koopalings share a Boxing Ring title in the Japanese version, which translates to "All-Purpose Chariot" and merely refers to the Clown Car. The English translations (and other translations) instead give a unique title to each of the Koopalings, describing their role and personality.


** From Brawl:
-->'''Snake''': Mei Ling, [[ShedArmorGainSpeed Samus took her clothes off!]]



** Mewtwo was one of, if not the most, unpopular characters to play in ''Melee'', due to its highly unorthodox design and being considered the worst character in the game at the time. Cue ''Brawl''[='s=] release, and a large portion of the fanbase complains about its exclusion, and with the 3DS/Wii U installments, there are those who dearly wished for the return. Thankfully, Sakurai and company listened to the fanbase and released the character as DLC for the fourth game (and even made it free if you bought both versions).



** [[VideoGame/KidIcarus Pit's]] ''Brawl'' incarnation was often portrayed in fanfiction as a pure, submissive, weak, kind, holy, and innocent being (in other words, like one of the common stereotypes of angels.) To be fair, this was before ''Uprising'' was released and developed his personalty, and ''Brawl'' gave few hints of his or any other of its characters personalities. All the fandom that payed attention knew of Pit at the time was the implication that he was overconfident or possibly even arrogant, and a hidden conversation Snake has with Otacon that says he's far stronger and [[Really700YearsOld older]] than he looks.



* AntiClimaxBoss: Because of ''Brawl's'' All-Star Mode having you face all of the characters of Nintendo's franchises (and ''Metal Gear'' and ''Sonic'') in the order their series were made, Olimar is always the one you fight last due to ''VideoGame/{{Pikmin}}'' being the most recent one. He's always by himself, his attacks without the Pikmin are weak if you can separate him from them, and since ''3DS/Wii U'' wasn't a thing yet, Olimar doesn't have a very reliable recovery move. Not only that, but the stage is always Distant Planet, which not only has a OneHitKO hazard in the form of the Bulborb, but also the rain effect which makes half of the stage practically useless to fight on when it's active. Needless to say, he's the easiest to take out.



** In ''Brawl'', Crazy Hand. While Master Hand has some of the best boss attacks in the game for his exclusive moves, Crazy Hand instead has some of the worst boss attacks for his exclusives (two of which are heavily telegraphed and can be evaded just by moving away). The rest of his attacks are also ridiculously easy to evade except for the Hand Drill (which he performs later in his attack pattern than Master Hand, making him use it less), and his attacks are extremely weak for a boss (while the few that can KO are again very easy to dodge). Crazy Hand is such an easy boss that in the team-up with Master Hand at the end of Classic Mode, decent players will have the battle won once they defeat Master Hand regardless of their damage. Then there is his Boss Battles version, which drastically nerfs his HP to the worst among bosses in the game, leaving him a freebie in the mode for any remotely competent player. In the Wii U version, he's fought alone in Crazy Orders, and his battle is sometimes considered far easier than the Crazy Orders matches themselves, as he doesn't possess [[ThatOneAttack a particular OHKO attack involving rising platforms]] like Master Hand. In fact, there's only one attack that is hard to avoid, which is a black hole that gives you the Flower Status, and even then, the only hard part about the battle is probably the characters that assist it (or sometimes, even Master Hand).

to:

** In ''Brawl'', Crazy Hand. While Master Hand has some of the best boss attacks in the game for his exclusive moves, Crazy Hand instead has some of the worst boss attacks for his exclusives (two of which are heavily telegraphed and can be evaded just by moving away). The rest of his attacks are also ridiculously easy to evade except for the Hand Drill (which he performs later in his attack pattern than Master Hand, making him use it less), and his attacks are extremely weak for a boss (while the few that can KO are again very easy to dodge). Crazy Hand is such an easy boss that in the team-up with Master Hand at the end of Classic Mode, decent players will have the battle won once they defeat Master Hand regardless of their damage. Then there is his Boss Battles version, which drastically nerfs his HP to the worst among bosses in the game, leaving him a freebie in the mode for any remotely competent player.Hand. In the Wii U version, he's fought alone in Crazy Orders, and his battle is sometimes considered far easier than the Crazy Orders matches themselves, as he doesn't possess [[ThatOneAttack a particular OHKO attack involving rising platforms]] like Master Hand. In fact, there's only one attack that is hard to avoid, which is a black hole that gives you the Flower Status, and even then, the only hard part about the battle is probably the characters that assist it (or sometimes, even Master Hand).



* ContestedSequel:
** ''Brawl'', particularly for the competitive scene due to Sakurai going out of his way to make the game as mainstream-accessible as possible, altering a number of physics and mechanics and including the nightmare of every ''SSB'' player, [[ScrappyMechanic TRIPPING]].
** While general consensus says the ''Smash 4'' games on the casual and competitive side are superior to ''Brawl'' (especially competitively, where its competitive scene was multiple magnitudes larger than ''Brawl''[='=]s ever was, while it went into ''Ultimate'' with a still strong scene), some diehard ''Brawl'' fans have been vocal about their preference of ''Brawl'' and lament for a revival of its competitive scene. On the casual side, you have those who actually liked ''The Subspace Emissary'' criticize ''Smash 4'' for its lackluster singe-player mode. On the competitive side, in some irony considering what they faced from ''Melee'' players for years, you have ''Brawl'' players who lambast ''Smash 4'' for its removal of advanced techniques such as [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/DACUS DACUS]] and [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Glide_toss glide tossing]], and its perceived overall lack of such techniques, claiming it has a lower "skill ceiling" among other things.

to:

* ContestedSequel:
** ''Brawl'', particularly for the competitive scene due to Sakurai going out of his way to make the game as mainstream-accessible as possible, altering a number of physics and mechanics and including the nightmare of every ''SSB'' player, [[ScrappyMechanic TRIPPING]].
**
ContestedSequel: While general consensus says the ''Smash 4'' games on the casual and competitive side are superior to ''Brawl'' (especially competitively, where its competitive scene was multiple magnitudes larger than ''Brawl''[='=]s ever was, while it went into ''Ultimate'' with a still strong scene), some diehard ''Brawl'' fans have been vocal about their preference of ''Brawl'' and lament for a revival of its competitive scene. On the casual side, you have those who actually liked ''The Subspace Emissary'' criticize ''Smash 4'' for its lackluster singe-player mode. On the competitive side, in some irony considering what they faced from ''Melee'' players for years, you have ''Brawl'' players who lambast ''Smash 4'' for its removal of advanced techniques such as [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/DACUS DACUS]] and [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Glide_toss glide tossing]], and its perceived overall lack of such techniques, claiming it has a lower "skill ceiling" among other things.



** ''Brawl'' received many positive reviews with a higher Metacritic score than ''Melee'' and sold more copies. Given the ongoing strife in the community and just by looking at this page, you'd be surprised how it sold so well or even got those reviews.



* DisappointingLastLevel:
** Or rather, Disappointing Last Event. Many fans consider ''Brawl'' Event 41, "The Final, FINAL Battle", to be a lazier, inferior version of ''Melee'' Event 51, "The Showdown." It pits the player against an overpowered giant Mario, Snake, and Sonic (in place of Giga Bowser, Ganondorf, and Mewtwo respectively). The battle is ridiculously [[AntiClimaxBoss anti-climatic]], as it's possible [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVz8CvG3oJI to trick Giant Mario into falling off the ledge in just a few seconds.]]
** ''Wii U'' continues the tradition started with ''Brawl''. In this game's "The final, FINAL battle", you face Pac-Man, Mega Man, Sonic, and Fast Mario, two at a time.

to:

* DisappointingLastLevel:
** Or rather, Disappointing Last Event. Many fans consider ''Brawl'' Event 41, "The Final, FINAL Battle", to be a lazier, inferior version of ''Melee'' Event 51, "The Showdown." It pits the player against an overpowered giant Mario, Snake, and Sonic (in place of Giga Bowser, Ganondorf, and Mewtwo respectively). The battle is ridiculously [[AntiClimaxBoss anti-climatic]], as it's possible [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVz8CvG3oJI to trick Giant Mario into falling off the ledge in just a few seconds.]]
**
DisappointingLastLevel: ''Wii U'' continues the tradition started with ''Brawl''. In this game's U'''s "The final, FINAL battle", you face Pac-Man, Mega Man, Sonic, and Fast Mario, two at a time.



* EarWorm: The Waddle Dee Army's background music. [[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=slHieHP_wSU Bu-kaa, bu-kaa, hrah hrah hrah!]]



** ''Brawl'' is the most divisive in this regard, although critics and some fans mainly praise it for reasons similar to ''Melee'', minus the competitive aspect. In that scene, the ''VideoGame/ProjectM'' mod of ''Brawl'' gets [[SurprisinglyImprovedSequel better remake]] remarks.



** Buckots deserve an honorable mention since they fly, they're fast, they always try to get on top of you, and their white-hot ingots are ''very damaging''. Super-irritating cheap-shot flying bastards.



** ''Brawl'' has the "Smash Stack" exploit, which is the most common way to load mods for that game. However, it can also be used to install other homebrew. Unlike the Twilight Hack, it still works with newer firmware, as well as the Wii U's Wii Mode.



** Meta Knight, due to being widely considered a massive GameBreaker in ''Brawl'' to the point where not only does he get his own tier in that game, but that incarnation of him is often considered to be the best character in the ''entire series''. He's so badass that tournament players cower in fear unless he's explicitly banned from character selection. Adding to this is that Meta Knight is already a big EnsembleDarkhorse among ''Kirby'' fans for his [[TheStoic stoic]] & honorable nature and his Zorro-esque voice in the English dub of [[Anime/KirbyRightBackAtYa the anime]].



** Sonic(Brawl only): "YOU'RE TOO SLOW!" "C'MON STEP IT UP!" and [[LimitBreak "NOW I'LL SHOW YOU! HUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"]]



** Peach's "La-la-la-la-la-la!" taunt in ''Brawl''. Her "Ohhhhhh, did I wiiiiiiiiin~?" victory quote is also infamous for how salt-inducing it is.
** The sound of [[ScrappyMechanic tripping]].



* NeverLiveItDown:
** In ''Brawl'', Captain Falcon was considered the worst character for the first two tier lists (which covers about the first year of the game's competitive scene), and while like Melee Mewtwo where he got discovered to be a lot more potent than his bottom tier brethren and would permanently rise out of the bottom tier, he never shook off the stigma of worst character and even for a low/bottom tier character had almost no serious players throughout Brawl's entire competitive life, despite being an immensely popular character in the rest of the Smash games. This stigma didn't follow him into Smash 4 though, where he has perpetually been considered a high tier character and had a very large flock of players playing him since day 1.
** Similarly, ''[=SSB4=]'' Diddy Kong will always be remembered for his "Hoo-Hah" and being an [[GameBreaker utterly broken]] invincible character, due to the massive amounts of bile that he raised before his nerfs in version 1.0.6. It doesn't matter that Diddy still wins almost every major tournament thanks to - and only thanks to - his best player [=ZeRo=], which to many people is a painful reminder of the 1.0.4 days.

to:

* NeverLiveItDown:
** In ''Brawl'', Captain Falcon was considered the worst character for the first two tier lists (which covers about the first year of the game's competitive scene), and while like Melee Mewtwo where he got discovered to be a lot more potent than his bottom tier brethren and would permanently rise out of the bottom tier, he never shook off the stigma of worst character and even for a low/bottom tier character had almost no serious players throughout Brawl's entire competitive life, despite being an immensely popular character in the rest of the Smash games. This stigma didn't follow him into Smash 4 though, where he has perpetually been considered a high tier character and had a very large flock of players playing him since day 1.
** Similarly,
NeverLiveItDown: ''[=SSB4=]'' Diddy Kong will always be remembered for his "Hoo-Hah" and being an [[GameBreaker utterly broken]] invincible character, due to the massive amounts of bile that he raised before his nerfs in version 1.0.6. It doesn't matter that Diddy still wins almost every major tournament thanks to - and only thanks to - his best player [=ZeRo=], which to many people is a painful reminder of the 1.0.4 days.



** Fox and Falco's unique victory quotes against each other, as well as Falco's "Hands off my prey!" CatchPhrase, originated [[https://tcrf.net/Super_Smash_Bros._Melee/Unused_Audio in the Japanese version]] of ''Melee'' rather than ''Brawl''.



* PlayTheGameSkipTheStory: Particularly, ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl''. The overarching plot of The Subspace Emissary was mostly ignored by players. It doesn't help that a lot of detail is left vague due to all of the characters being {{Heroic Mime}}s. [[http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/modea/modea17.html One of the last updates]] at [[AllThereInTheManual the official website]] clarifies these and also reveals that some exposition had to be cut out of the game entirely. [[DigitalPiracy Pirated]] versions of this game usually cut out the Subspace Emissary cutscenes, among other things, so the game can fit on a single-layer disc. And since it's one of the most popular games for [[UsefulNotes/{{Wii}} the most pirated seventh generation console]]…



** ''Brawl'':
*** Tripping. Whenever a player makes a dash input, they may, by [[RandomNumberGenerator completely random chance]], trip over and leave themselves vulnerable. While a disruptive annoyance in general, this commonly causes players to trip and get hit by attacks they would have avoided otherwise to no fault of their own. This only applies to ''random'' tripping, not ''forced'' tripping caused by attacks, as the latter is triggered by players and can be part of legitimate strategies. There was much rejoicing when random tripping was removed from the fourth game.
*** Hitstun cancelling is the most detested mechanic in ''Brawl'' after tripping. Whenever a player is hit by an attack, they can do an air dodge after 12 frames of hitstun, or an aerial after 25 frames, regardless of the knockback they sustained. This mechanic meant players suffer barely any practical hitstun regardless of what they were hit by, which caused multiple detrimental aspects in the game. The first is that combos were almost nonexistent, and the few that remained were mostly from chain throws or extremely weak yet fast attacks that could chain multiple hits into itself. The second was that many attacks could result in the player getting punished for hitting with them at low damages, and the player was always at risk for perusing an opponent they just launched. The third is that it allowed [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Momentum_canceling momentum cancelling]]; since characters could act so early out of hitstun, they would be able to make actions while in knockback that redirected it, reduced its distance, or even completely negate it, allowing characters to survive to far higher damages than they were intended to. This mechanic was the main culprit for why ''Brawl'' was such a slow-paced and defensive game, as it both simultaneously made it more difficult to rack up damage and more difficult to KO opponents.
*** The revamped air dodge. Removal of wavedashing aside, the fact that ''Brawl'' air dodge is highly spammable and hard to punish makes it ''too'' effective for its intended use, which, combined with ledge planking and camping, turns ''Brawl'' into a game of turtling instead of the offensively-oriented ''Melee''. This is alleviated in the 4th installment; the air dodge is still momentum-conserving like in ''Brawl'', but you can no longer air dodge out of hitstun, and air dodging near the ground now produces significant landing lag for all characters, making it much more punishable.
*** "Autosnap" ledges, which made ledges much easier to grab and allowed characters to grab them from much farther away, to a degree that is commonly seen as a GameBreaker.
*** The significant amount of invincibility grabbing a ledge grants, that can be indefinitely replenished by regrabbing the ledge. While abuseable in prior games, the easier to grab ledge, floatier falling speeds, and generally improved recoveries, made the act of "planking" (i.e. repeatedly letting go and regrabbing the ledge to exploit its invincibility) much more prominent. This made being on the ledge, which should normally be one of the most disadvantageous places to be, an extremely safe spot, and some characters could abuse it to a degree where they were nearly unhittable, to where they could reliably utilise it to stall out a match they are winning (Meta Knight, already generally deemed a GameBreaker, was especially notorious for his game breaking planking). This led to almost all tournaments adopting a "ledge grab limit" rule (the tournament would have a limit on the amount of times you can grab the ledge in a game, and should a match timeout, the result screen will be checked and a player who went over the limit automatically loses regardless of their lead). ''Smash 4'' would address this by making it so that regrabbing the ledge without getting hit or landing on the stage first will result in no invincibility whatsoever, leaving you extremely vulnerable to eating a heavy punish.
*** Pokémon Trainer's stamina and forced switching mechanic. If a player uses one Pokémon for too long, that Pokémon will gradually lose strength, forcing the Trainer to switch them out regularly. Symbolically, this represents Pokémon fighting as a team. Mechanically, this becomes a tactical nightmare in tournaments, and made the Trainer especially vulnerable to turtling tactics. This is also believed to be one of the major reasons why fan-favorite Pokémon Charizard failed to garner a significant ''Smash''-based fanbase.
*** Type Effectiveness. The Trainer's Pokémon are also affected differently by their respective weaknesses/resistances, just like in the ''Pokémon'' games; Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur sustain more knockback from water, grass, and fire-based attacks respectively, while they sustain less knockback from grass, fire, and water-based attacks respectively. Since Squirtle and Ivysaur are the only characters in the game with water and grass attacks, this weakness only really mattered to Squirtle and Charizard in Pokemon Trainer dittos, but since many characters have fire-based attacks, this left Ivysaur at an innate and exploitable disadvantage no other character had against the rest of the cast, bolstering its [[TierInducedScrappy low-tier scrappiness]]. To everyone's relief, both of these maligned mechanics were removed when the Pokémon Trainer returned in ''Ultimate''.
*** Excessive stale-move negation. In layman's terms, spamming any move causes said move to get weaker, knocking back enemies less and less. This effect is much more severe in ''Brawl'' than it is in the previous games, as while the previous games just reduced damage, ''Brawl'' also reduces a move's knockback. Among average players, this mechanic is hated for widening the gap between characters with several reliable finishers and those with few. But with competitive players, the main problem this introduces is it [[NotTheIntendedUse allows some moves to combo into themselves far longer than they reasonably should]], making certain stale moves in certain situations more useful than the fresh move, and in some cases, can completely break certain matchups, such as Sheik's forward tilt or Pikachu's down throw on the ''Star Fox'' characters.
*** While the lack of buffering can be a scrappy lack-of-mechanic for primary ''Brawl'' players, buffering becomes a Scrappy Mechanic for dedicated ''Melee'' players, since due to the way the system works, it can cause unintended inputs that lead to grave mistakes, particularly accidental neutral air attacks that give the player no chance to recover.
*** The fact that you can't straight-up restart Event Matches like you could in ''Melee''. Not only do the other two options - quitting and failing - take longer, but the former requires a button combination that can strain your fingers. This was carried over to ''Wii U''.



** In ''Brawl'', Master Hand's Finger Flick, Hand Swipe, and Hand Drill, all of which have near-instantaneous start-up without any telegraphing (unlike other boss attacks), while either dealing very high knockback (the former two) or dealing extreme damage (the lattermost). Special mention goes to the Hand Drill, which is also flat-out impossible for most characters to evade without going offstage (where they then have minimal time to do so, especially if they're hit by the Hand Drill as it starts up). These attacks are so effective, they bring what would have been a middling boss to perhaps the most difficult in the game, only being contended with by Duon in The Subspace Emissary (at least in Classic Mode; his Boss Battles incarnation has drastically nerfed HP, leaving him with less HP than every other boss except Crazy Hand in that mode, and leaving it so low that most characters can defeat him before he can complete one attack cycle, ensuring players often won't have to deal with these attacks).
** In ''Brawl'', Tabuu's infamous Off Waves attack. He teleports into the background and briefly materialises his wings… and then unleashes three damaging shockwaves that covers the entire screen and does such immense knockback that one shockwave is enough to [[OneHitKO instantly defeat your character]] on any difficulty higher than Easy. The best part? To survive, you need to side dodge all three waves with ''extremely precise timing each''. The Off Waves attack was so infamous that the developers appeared to acknowledge it by sneaking it into ''3DS/Wii U'' as the final attack of Master Core's true form if you don't KO it in time.



*** ''Brawl'': The battle with the two at the end of Classic Mode. Master Hand himself in Classic Mode is the most difficult boss in the game after Duon because of the aforementioned attacks, and his high HP in Classic Mode ensures players will have to deal with them. Throw in Crazy Hand to distract you from being able to preemptively prepare for these moves while giving you another full-powered boss to fight, and welp, good luck taking them down on Intense difficulty without any stock loss (Crazy Hand alone himself, however, is a complete pushover, so if you can take down Master Hand, you'll have the fight won).



*** The [[BossRush Boss Battles]] in ''Brawl''.



*** Hanenbow in ''Brawl'', and [[AbridgedArenaArray not just]] in TournamentPlay. The stage itself is only comprised of small platforms which tilt every which way, with no single "large" platform to stand on. It causes matches played on it to feel very cramped, which is frustrating in a highly mobile game like ''Smash''.
*** Mario Bros. and 75m in ''Brawl''. Mario Bros. looks exactly like the a level from [[VideoGame/MarioBros the titular game]]. The only ways to get KO'd are either from the top or by getting launched into one of the narrow edges. The cramped stage and numerous Shellcreepers and crab mooks make it difficult to play on. 75m could have potentially been a fun stage, being based on the third level of ''VideoGame/DonkeyKong''. However, the stage is very large, very disjointed, has annoying springs that come out every so often, is comprised almost entirely out of tiny platforms, and [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking has a very poor music track list]]. The latter is returning for the Wii U version, but it's even ''worse'' now that the platforms on the left side were shrunk down, making matches even ''more'' cramped.



*** The Pokémon portion in ''Brawl'''s All-Star Mode is considered to be the hardest part. You literally have to fight against six Pokémon, meaning you have to face up against all of Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon along with Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Lucario. It doesn't help that one of the stages that can be chosen is Spear Pillar, which can very easily screw you over with the hazards summoned by Dialga or Palkia.



** In ''Brawl'', the darker colors and shades used for the characters sometimes make them look rather strange, particularly in regards to characters like Toon Link, where the detail in his character model contrasts the cartoony nature. This is not helped by the fact characters don't emote as well as they should (Dedede and the aforementioned Toon Link had only a few faces with little variety). The fourth game seems to have noticed this, and keeps the characters rather simple and colorful, as well as giving them more expression, including the aforementioned Toon Link and Dedede.



** The Subspace Emissary mode in Brawl received, at best, a lukewarm reception, even being called the "worst part of the game" by a lot of the fans… until 2013, when it was announced there wouldn't be a mode like that in ''3DS/Wii U''. Fans of the mode started to make their voice heard that they ''liked'' it (which was unheard of when it came out) due to it playing with the ''Smash'' formula in a good way, all the AwesomeMoments in the cutscenes (like the Great Invasion), and [[spoiler:the scene where Ganondorf forces the R.O.B.s to blow themselves up being one of the darkest moments in series, if not Nintendo as a whole]].
** ''Brawl'' itself has been getting this over the years. While the game is still criticised for its poor balance and poor gameplay mechanics, there are several fans that praised the game for the vast amount of content in the game, as the Wii U version has been gaining criticism for its lack of content outside of multiplayer.
** This also happened to certain characters who were unpopular picks for whatever reason, but then grew on the fandom:

to:

** The Subspace Emissary mode in Brawl received, at best, a lukewarm reception, even being called the "worst part of the game" by a lot of the fans… until 2013, when it was announced there wouldn't be a mode like that in ''3DS/Wii U''. Fans of the mode started to make their voice heard that they ''liked'' it (which was unheard of when it came out) due to it playing with the ''Smash'' formula in a good way, all the AwesomeMoments in the cutscenes (like the Great Invasion), and [[spoiler:the scene where Ganondorf forces the R.O.B.s to blow themselves up being one of the darkest moments in series, if not Nintendo as a whole]].
** ''Brawl'' itself has been getting this over the years. While the game is still criticised for its poor balance and poor gameplay mechanics, there are several fans that praised the game for the vast amount of content in the game, as the Wii U version has been gaining criticism for its lack of content outside of multiplayer.
** This also happened to certain characters who were unpopular picks for whatever reason, but then grew on the fandom:


** Pichu and the ''Melee'' version of Kirby are easily the most infamous low-TierInducedScrappy characters in the series, with their [[RidiculouslyCuteCritter diminutive "cutesy" designs not helping matters]], and [[MasterOfNone having very poor stats all around]]. No matter how awful other bottom tier characters in the series may be, Pichu and ''Melee'' Kirby will forever be viewed by the fandom as the weakest and most pathetic characters in the series. While Kirby is only an example due to poor balancing, Pichu's case might have been [[JokeCharacter fully intentional]], given how ''all'' of his attacks inflict recoil damage.


** Tingle makes a cameo as part of the "Great Bay" stage in ''Melee''. During gameplay, it's possible to send him for a dip in the ocean, and American players have been known to call a truce in order to do just that.



** [[VideoGame/KirbysAdventure Fountain of Dreams]] is very well-remembered for not only being legitimately fun to play on while staying tournament-legal, but for [[SceneryPorn being absolutely beautiful to look at]] and [[AwesomeMusic/SuperSmashBros having one of the best songs in the game playing on it]]. Many have mourned its absence from ''Brawl'' and ''3DS/Wii U''.
** [[VideoGame/ZeldaIITheAdventureOfLink Temple]], first appearing in ''Melee''. While it's banned in TournamentPlay, it is one of the most beloved stages in non-serious play due to the combination of a large amount of room to move around and the lack of any hazards. It's also got a huge variety of terrain shapes to suit many situations. You have a section with a handful of small platforms, two platforms facing each other over a gap, a long platform with a solid floor under it, two cliffs leading to lower platforms, a tunnel, a small arena with a roof, a vertical tunnel, and a tiny arena with a ceiling over two pits. This lets you do whatever you want, from having air battles with the platforms and cliffs to having close brawls in the tighter arena areas to trying to go defensive when weak in one of the areas with ceilings. The cave/tunnel area in particular is popular for having impromptu "cage matches". Even seriously-heavy-hitting moves like Captain Falcon's "Falcon Punch" or Mr. Game and Watch's "Judgement #9" don't knock enemies out; they just entertainingly bounce around like pinballs due to the walls and ceiling. It's no surprise that it returns in both ''Brawl'', ''Wii U'', and ''Ultimate'', with Brawl giving it a new song, and the Wii U version giving it a beautiful makeover as well as a plethora of songs, including songs from ''Zelda'' stages that didn't make it into ''[=SSB4=]'', and from ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaALinkBetweenWorlds A Link Between Worlds]]''.



* BreatherLevel: There's [[LuckBasedMission a one-in-three chance]] that the Hyrule level in Adventure Mode in ''Melee'' will be like this. The goal of the level is to find the Triforce in one of six spawn points — the spawn points that don't have it will have a shadow clone of Link to fight. Two of these spawn points can be reached without any encounters (the others are beyond the second spawn point). Should the Triforce spawn in one of the first two spawn points, you can clear the level without any combat whatsoever (making it by far the easiest way to get the Switzerland end-of-level bonus).



** ''Melee'', regarding the original, with Trophies, [[SequelEscalation more options, characters, stages, modes]], and a [[TournamentPlay competitive scene]]. It's considered overall an improvement over the original.



** ''Melee'' fans generally have a rivalry with fans of the newer games in the series due to the CasualCompetitiveConflict, although it's not unheard of for people to enjoy [[TakeAThirdOption both]]. It's gotten to the point that fans chanted ''Melee'' while blowing off the Apex 2015 champion for ''Smash 4'', and similar behaviour occurring during the CEO 2016 Top 8 finals of ''VideoGame/GuiltyGear'' have caused them to be disdained by other fighting game fans as well.



* FranchiseOriginalSin:
** Counters in ''Wii U/3DS'' are often hated by people due to a combination of being unoriginal and sometimes being a case of ThatOneAttack for specific ones like Shulk's Vision, Bayonetta's Witch Time, and Corrin's Counter Surge. Counters have been a concept since ''Melee''; the difference is that there were only three characters on the roster (of 26) with a type of counter, compared to the (technically) sixteen/fifteen counters different characters can potentially have, including custom moves. Also, the ''Melee'' counters lacked the raw power that several of the ones in ''Wii U/3DS'' have, making them purely a "keep away" option in certain situations.
** Certain franchises getting [[SpotlightStealingSquad more attention than others]], such as ''Kirby'', ''Fire Emblem'', and ''Kid Icarus'', tends to be a sour spot for some fans, and in some cases is viewed as a sign of CreatorsPet. However, when a franchise is introduced in a major way, it's usually introduced in a downplayed manner and then expanded on in future titles; for example, until ''Brawl'', only Kirby was a playable character, ''Fire Emblem'' had only two characters in both ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' and even lacked a stage for the former, and ''Kid Icarus'' only had Pit in ''Brawl'', with it bordering on InNameOnly due to the large amount of liberties taken. In fact, the reason why the ''Kirby'' series was downplayed in the first place was due to ''avoiding'' CreatorsPet status, despite being at the time Sakurai's franchise.
** Ganondorf's moveset. A clone of Captain Falcon in ''Melee'', Ganondorf had only had one canon appearance at that point (in ''Ocarina of Time''). While not a ''perfect'' representation of his canon self, Ganondorf's depiction made quite a bit of sense up to that point, as a huge, intimidating man who uses dark magic to crush his foes. Furthermore, despite Ganondorf's size, his ''[=OoT=]'' boss fight didn't show off much of his physical prowess, an advantage that ''Melee'' was able to provide. By the time of ''Brawl'', Ganondorf had been depicted in two subsequent games as a MasterSwordsman and shown off more of his magical abilities. However, in ''Smash'', not only did he retain a slightly decloned version of his ''Melee'' moveset, but he was updated to his ''Twilight Princess'' incarnation, where he used a sword extensively during the final battle and was given a BlackKnight-esque design. This caused some fans to label his moveset as the most blatant example of TheArtifact in the series, not helped by his becoming one of the worst characters in both ''Brawl'' and ''[=3DS/Wii U=]''.

to:

* FranchiseOriginalSin:
** Counters in ''Wii U/3DS'' are often hated by people due to a combination of being unoriginal and sometimes being a case of ThatOneAttack for specific ones like Shulk's Vision, Bayonetta's Witch Time, and Corrin's Counter Surge. Counters have been a concept since ''Melee''; the difference is that there were only three characters on the roster (of 26) with a type of counter, compared to the (technically) sixteen/fifteen counters different characters can potentially have, including custom moves. Also, the ''Melee'' counters lacked the raw power that several of the ones in ''Wii U/3DS'' have, making them purely a "keep away" option in certain situations.
**
FranchiseOriginalSin: Certain franchises getting [[SpotlightStealingSquad more attention than others]], such as ''Kirby'', ''Fire Emblem'', and ''Kid Icarus'', tends to be a sour spot for some fans, and in some cases is viewed as a sign of CreatorsPet. However, when a franchise is introduced in a major way, it's usually introduced in a downplayed manner and then expanded on in future titles; for example, until ''Brawl'', only Kirby was a playable character, ''Fire Emblem'' had only two characters in both ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' and even lacked a stage for the former, and ''Kid Icarus'' only had Pit in ''Brawl'', with it bordering on InNameOnly due to the large amount of liberties taken. In fact, the reason why the ''Kirby'' series was downplayed in the first place was due to ''avoiding'' CreatorsPet status, despite being at the time Sakurai's franchise.
** Ganondorf's moveset. A clone of Captain Falcon in ''Melee'', Ganondorf had only had one canon appearance at that point (in ''Ocarina of Time''). While not a ''perfect'' representation of his canon self, Ganondorf's depiction made quite a bit of sense up to that point, as a huge, intimidating man who uses dark magic to crush his foes. Furthermore, despite Ganondorf's size, his ''[=OoT=]'' boss fight didn't show off much of his physical prowess, an advantage that ''Melee'' was able to provide. By the time of ''Brawl'', Ganondorf had been depicted in two subsequent games as a MasterSwordsman and shown off more of his magical abilities. However, in ''Smash'', not only did he retain a slightly decloned version of his ''Melee'' moveset, but he was updated to his ''Twilight Princess'' incarnation, where he used a sword extensively during the final battle and was given a BlackKnight-esque design. This caused some fans to label his moveset as the most blatant example of TheArtifact in the series, not helped by his becoming one of the worst characters in both ''Brawl'' and ''[=3DS/Wii U=]''.
franchise.



** The competitive community for ''Melee'' has [[http://smashboards.com/threads/vayseths-voyage-the-struggling-japanese-melee-community.437748/ become a case of this]] since the release of ''3DS[=/=]Wii U''. In Japan, local tournaments have been becoming increasingly infrequent, and only one monthly tournament remains in the whole country. Even then, said monthly tournament only gets about 30 entrants, with a ''Smash U'' tournament in the same region getting anywhere from 5 to 10 times those numbers. Everywhere else in the world, the ''Melee'' community remains just as big as the ''Smash U'' community, and even bigger in some areas.



** There's a glitch in ''Melee'' that lets you, among other things, [[PromotedToPlayable play as Master Hand]] (who is invincible outside Stamina Mode, which can be exploited to clear Event matches and some of the Multi-Man modes), though it is [[GameBreakingBug prone to crashing]]. Note that this glitch went undiscovered for ''seven years''; it involves synchronized use of the A and B buttons to confuse the "go to name entry menu" and "back to main menu" commands, causing the game to [[RageQuit give up]] and [[SequenceBreaking skip ahead to the stage select menu]]. If a player has not selected his or her character by the time this happens, it will default to the character with the ID value of "0" — him.
** A related bug by the same method but with other circumstances allows "shadow players" (start a team match with all four characters on the same team, causing the recolor mechanic to become confused) and one-player matches.
** There's an A.I. bug in ''Melee'' that [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5vjGlJv4BI causes all computer opponents to come to a complete standstill]] if the player stands still in certain locations on stages. This can be heavily exploited in the Multi-Man modes, particularly in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFYGCSPKQuk Cruel Melee.]]
** The [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Freeze_glitch Freeze glitch]], while a GameBreakingBug in normal gameplay, is this in the Home-Run Contest, where players have been able to exploit it to get the maximum distance in HRC with the Ice Climbers.
** The "[[FanNickname wavedash]]" exploit in ''Melee'', which has a reputation among some people as a bug, though it isn't[[note]]Basically, the physics engine is functioning properly, but the wavedash application appears to be a rather creative use of the air dodge, though director Sakurai noted that wavedashing was already discovered during the development of the game[[/note]], allows a character to slide along the ground by air dodging into it diagonally.



** ''Melee'' is the one game in the series that hasn't drawn significant criticism on its own merits. However, the general elitist attitude of a portion of the ''Melee'' player base, which includes bashing any or all of the other games in the series (except the [[{{Combos}} N64 original]]), takes the CasualCompetitiveConflict aspect of the ''Smash'' fanbase to new levels and discourages quite a few new players from trying out ''Melee''. Not helping matters is the scene's very high entry barrier, reliance on very specific equipment (such as old CRT televisions), and perceived "de-personification" of the game where characters such as Fox and Sheik are seen more as avatars for cult players than the Nintendo heroes that they are. Many players who indeed believe ''Melee'' to be the best game in the series are afraid to express their opinion because they don't want to be lumped with its infamously elitist fanbase.



** The ''Melee'' competitive scene is based on the opposite premise, where most of its players and fans are far more invested in the mechanics, metagame, and tournament scene than the game's mission statement of bringing together Nintendo heroes and history, to the point that they treat famous Smashers like [=Mew2King=], Leffen, and Mango as iconic personalities rather than the playable fighters themselves. Essentially, they treat ''Melee'' more like a professional sport than a video game, to a greater and more ludicrous degree than other e-sports (including its sequels).



** Sheik's jumping noise in ''Melee'', gets even worse in competitive play as competitive play often involves ''a lot'' of jumping. A match ''will'' be full of Sheik going TU TU TU TU constantly. Captain Falcon has a similar jumping noise, but people usually view it as part of the character's bizarre charm.
** Ganondorf's jumping noise in ''Melee'' is always accompanied by him saying "Kick!" or something to that effect. No reason why he does it, which makes it even more obnoxious.



*** Fox's Shine in ''Melee'' gets a lot of this, with its loud abrupt BWIP comboing with it being the best move used by the best character and commonly spammed at high-level play. The [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome "20XX" joke]] gets a lot of mileage out of the idea of entering a tournament and hearing BWIPBWIPBWIPBWIPBWIPBWIP at deafening volume.



** Whenever you get a Notice, unlock a new character or stage, or complete a Challenge in ''Melee'', [[https://youtu.be/ro2JW4H9Ys as]] [[https://youtu.be/VZjOKK6xrhE shown]] [[https://youtu.be/et1_PwSoBMo here.]]
*** The glass cracking sound when you complete a challenge on the Challenge Board, especially when you didn't see it coming.

to:

** Whenever you get a Notice, unlock a new character or stage, or complete a Challenge in ''Melee'', [[https://youtu.be/ro2JW4H9Ys as]] [[https://youtu.be/VZjOKK6xrhE shown]] [[https://youtu.be/et1_PwSoBMo here.]]
***
The glass cracking sound when you complete a challenge on the Challenge Board, especially when you didn't see it coming.



** Metal Mario and Metal Luigi's EpicFail-like entrance [[note]]Falling headfirst from the sky, then tipping over like dominoes.[[/note]] in ''Melee'''s Adventure mode. While that wouldn't be out of character for regular Mario and regular Luigi, these Metal counterparts are supposed to be DarkerAndEdgier [[ImplacableMan Implacable Men]].



** Mewtwo will always be remembered for being considered the worst character in ''Melee'', as he was considered the worst on the very first tier list, and considered worst on the tier list at the time of Brawl's release (a tier list which also stood for two years). In actuality, Mewtwo hasn't been considered the worst character since 2008, with its position on the tier list having jumped quite a bit since then, and it is considered to be "merely" low tier instead of bottom tier at the time of this writing, while no one considers it anywhere near a candidate for worst character. Mewtwo continued to be derided for being one of the worst characters in the game in spite of this, however. Part of this is due to the discrepancy between its canon appearance and his ''Smash'' appearance; in the ''Pokémon'' games, he is considered to be among the most powerful Pokémon, even among legendaries. At the very least, he has [[TookALevelInBadass become a feared top-tier character in the fourth game]], which makes him a lot closer to his canon appearance as an unstoppable force of nature.
** ''Melee'' Roy is in a similar camp, despite always having at least five characters below him on every tier list and even making mid-tier on some of them. This is because of his nature as a clone of Marth, who has been top-tier for the entirety of ''Melee'''s competitive history. Also like Mewtwo, his status as one of the worst isn't helped by his attacks [[AwesomeButImpractical being flashier than Marth's but having worse properties than them]].



** Link/Marth/Roy was this in ''Melee''.



* SacredCow:
** ''Melee'' fans infamously treat their game as such, heavily criticizing any ''Smash'' game that doesn't have similar gameplay while praising non-Nintendo, non-crossover {{Platform Fighter}}s such as ''VideoGame/RivalsOfAether'' based on their mechanics alone. While there's no denying that ''Melee'' is one of the greatest and most influential fighting games of all time, this has led to the infamous FandomRivalry between ''Melee'' and newer installments.



** ''Melee'':
*** Among casual players and some competitive players of the future less-technical Smash games, the game's infamous advanced techniques. Such consider these techniques an unnecessary technical addition to the game with LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters and {{Mascot Fighter}}s.
*** The most contested such technique is [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/L-canceling L-cancelling]], a mechanic that will allow you to cut the landing lag of your aerial moves in half if you press shield as you land. Detractors see it as something that heightens the technical barrier just for the sake of technical skill, as the same effect could be achieved by a universal landing lag reduction without any extra button presses, and unlike something like wavedashing where the technique has unique applications and must be used intelligently to be effective, there's never a time where you wouldn't want to L-cancel your aerials. Even some ''Melee'' players would rather have universally reduced landing lag instead of L-cancelling in the game, and there's been debate in the Project M community on if L-cancelling should have been implemented, with the mod's developers seriously contemplating not bringing it back.
*** Inverted with [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Buffer buffering.]] This is retroactive. ''Brawl'' and ''Smash 4'' "buffers" attack inputs, while ''Melee'' does not, making the game feel stiffer and unresponsive to people who primarily play these games.
*** For ''Melee''[='s=] 1P modes, there's the C-stick acting as a camera control. This removes a vital control option, introducing an element of FakeDifficulty in ''Melee''[='s=] 1P mode, in exchange for a useless camera control that will only distort your vision of the screen and aid TheAllSeeingAI.
*** Jumping with the control stick. Although the X and Y buttons were made more convenient jump buttons, this still remains, creating a large risk of mechanical errors such as jumping and doing an up aerial instead of doing an up smash. Later games include this, but unlike in ''Melee'', it can be turned off.
*** The eight-frame meteor-cancelling window. Because of this, what should be a risky, yet rewarding maneuver becomes almost worthless except for the strongest meteors at unreasonably high percents. It really says something that out of all of ''Melee''[='=]s minor mechanics, this one was not brought back for ''VideoGame/ProjectM''.



* SequelDisplacement: When ''Melee'' was young, a number of fans failed to realize that there was a game that came before it, despite the information being in ''Melee''.



* SnarkBait: While the games largely avoid this, the competitive ''Melee'' scene is treated as this by outsiders due to the extent to which it treats the game as SeriousBusiness, as well as its overzealous FandomRivalry with other ''Smash'' games ''and'' other fighting games in general.



* SuspiciouslySimilarSong:
** Some find the menu theme from ''Melee'' to sound like the title screen music in ''VideoGame/{{Terranigma}}''. More directly, it's based off of the Bowser level theme from ''VideoGame/SuperMario64''.
** The opening theme from ''Melee'' has also drawn comparisons to the Butter Building theme from the ''Kirby'' series. Supporting this is that Masahiro Sakurai directed both ''Kirby's Adventure'' and ''Melee''.
** The Fire Emblem characters' victory theme sounds similar to the last notes of the credits theme of the ''{{Franchise/Peanuts}}'' special "Is This Goodbye, Charlie Brown?".

to:

* SuspiciouslySimilarSong:
** Some find the menu theme from ''Melee'' to sound like the title screen music in ''VideoGame/{{Terranigma}}''. More directly, it's based off of the Bowser level theme from ''VideoGame/SuperMario64''.
** The opening theme from ''Melee'' has also drawn comparisons to the Butter Building theme from the ''Kirby'' series. Supporting this is that Masahiro Sakurai directed both ''Kirby's Adventure'' and ''Melee''.
**
SuspiciouslySimilarSong: The Fire Emblem characters' victory theme sounds similar to the last notes of the credits theme of the ''{{Franchise/Peanuts}}'' special "Is This Goodbye, Charlie Brown?".



** From Melee, there's the "No Damage Clear" bonus, which you can only get by beating Classic, Adventure, or All-Star without taking any damage whatsoever. There's also the "Switzerland" bonus, which requires you to [[GeniusBonus neither attack nor take damage]] for the whole match, though certain Adventure Mode stages (Underground Maze with a bit of luck or the Zebes escape or F-Zero Grand Prix with good jumpers) can be used to cheap this out.



*** ''Melee'': The Event 50 battle with the hands. In Classic Mode, Master Hand initially shows up alone, and Crazy Hand only appears when he is brought down to half health on at least Normal. This isn't the case with Event 50, where you fight both of them from max health right off the bat, with both of them at their most aggressive. Last but not least, you only get one stock, compared to Classic Mode where you could have up to five.



** The FMV segments of ''Melee'''s opening were made with the explicit purpose of showing off what the UsefulNotes/NintendoGameCube was capable of, and by consequence that this would've been a much bigger game than the 64 incarnation (since Nintendo 64 cartridges lacked the capacity for full-motion video, but optical discs were fully capable of it). [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbYUUaXPOMw They succeeded, and the scenes look great to this day]].

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