History Webcomic / Outsiders

''Outsiders'' (styled as "♀utsiders") was a webcomic by Ruairidh [=MacVeigh=] [[SpinOff spun off]] from his ''[[Webcomic/MaddieOnTheIslandHue Mad]][[Webcomic/MaddieInAmerica die]]'' comics. This time, the focus was on same-sex lovers Siobhan Pattinson and Ebony Larsson, Maddie's friends from the previous comics, as they start to plan their future, battling fear and prejudice to reach their goals in life. It will follow their development from aspiring teenage girls to hard working women. The comic has since been deleted.

** Taken UpToEleven with [[spoiler: the bar fight in Chapter 11]].

* CerebusSyndrome: [=MacVeigh's=] comics have ''always'' had some drama in them, but they were usually balanced out with a fair amount of lighthearted and comedic moments as well. However, Volume 11 cranks things UpToEleven (appropriately) when [[spoiler: Siobhan and Ebony are nearly beaten to death by a pair of homophobic bar patrons. This results in Siobhan being left with permanent, facial disfigurement due to being glassed, and Ebony, who is also left with serious injuries, suffering from PTSD; causing her to become mentally unstable and emotionally distant]]. It's arguably the darkest the comics have ever gotten, and according to [=MacVeigh's=] comments at the end of Volume 10, Siobhan and Ebony may never be able to feel true happiness again after this.

* HypotheticalCasting: [=MacVeigh=] claims that the design of Harold Wisley is based off of Creator/RichardBurton, and if possible, he would have his voice if the comic was adapted to film (though he knows that Burton died, he still thinks that if the software was available to recreate the voices of deceased actors, singers or other celebrities, we could one day hear Richard Burton’s voice on the big screen once again).

* RealityEnsues: While Siobhan and Ebony faced no real negative consequences for their relationship (aside from some uncomfortable looks from passerbys) in the previous comics, here, the general opinion of those outside their remote island home finally comes through and Siobhan is shamed by a police officer for kissing Ebony. As Harry puts it "It may not be illegal, but it's still a crime." Keep in mind this part happens in 1987.
** [[spoiler: When Siobhan finally does get a job, she learns that she and Ebony can't live together in the apartment they planned to rent out due to Ebony not being able to legally live in the United States]].[[spoiler: However, through applying for jobs in the US and taking tests, Ebony ''is'' eventually able to earn the right to live with Siobhan]].

* CatharsisFactor: After seeing Siobhan and Ebony go through hell for their relationship in a few of the previous volumes, seeing them sign up as members of a gay bar where they'll be readily accepted in Volume 13 is sure to make a lot of people breathe a sigh of relief.

* CreatorBacklash: While [=MacVeigh=] doesn't seem to outright ''hate'' the comic, he does seem a bit embarrassed by the lack of direction later on that would have led to him including more outlandish scenarios had he not deleted it and started anew with ''Webcomic/WhenHeavenSpitsYouOut'' instead.

* DeletedRole: Had the series gone on, Siobhan would have gained a secretary named Alyx at one point. Her design can be seen [[https://rorymacve.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/shiv-alyx-enter.png?w=1024 here]], and is based off Suzanne, the protagonist in the original unused concept of ''Webcomic/Red348''. The basic idea for her design, however, would later be recycled for Janie Hanzlicek in ''Webcomic/WhenHeavenSpitsYouOut''.
* DeletedScene. Siobhan and Ebony's sex scene became one after [=MacVeigh=] decided to remove it to make the comic more tasteful. Also, there is a part in Volume 3 that was clearly taken out before it was even released. During Ebony's medical exam, the nurse asks her to take her shirt off so her heartbeat can be checked. Ebony then uncomfortably tells the nurse that she doesn't wear a bra. It then cuts to her talking to Siobhan about the incident. How can you tell something was cut? Because the page numbers after the cutting of Siobhan and Ebony's love making in Volume 1 display a different font than the others, and so do the pages after Ebony's medical exam in this volume, so there must've at least been a page where Ebony exposes her chest to the nurse. By that logic, something explicit must've also happened in volume two between Siobhan showing Ebony the Queen tickets and them going to the concert, but it's not certain what was cut there.

* FanficFuel: The unexpected deletion of the series has left some events open to interpretation:
** Do Siobhan and Ebony ever come out publicly about their relationship?
** Will Charles Donovan ever get his comeuppance?
** What becomes of [[spoiler: Harry and Renee's relationship]].
** Do Siobhan and Ebony ever hear from Maddie and Andy (or Matt and Rhia) again?
** Will [[spoiler: the homophobic bar patrons who assaulted Siobhan and Ebony in Florida]] ever be brought to justice?
** Will Leni ever overcome [[spoiler: her coworkers pressuring her into sex]]?
** And perhaps the most open-ended question: Do Siobhan and Ebony ever get legally married?
* FridgeHorror: [[spoiler: Despite it happening in 1987, the thought of Siobhan working in the Twin Towers has set some people on edge given the inevitability of what will happen to them years later. As one commenter put it during the part where Siobhan offically moves to New York for her job: "(She should) get a new job sometime in the next, oh, 13 years or so... one that isn't in the Twin Towers!"]]

* HarsherInHindsight: The moment when Ebony tells Siobhan that if the two of them had to move away from the island for career related reasons, the traditions of her ancestors, which probably would have kept her on the island in that situation, wouldn't stop her from going with Siobhan becomes this when [[spoiler: Siobhan ''does'' have to move away from the island for career related reasons, but can't take Ebony with her]].[[spoiler: Though this also evolves into HeartwarmingInHindsight, as even then, Ebony never stopped trying to find a way to get back to Siobhan, and the two are finally able to live together again in Volume 8]].
** When Siobhan and Ebony are on the train to London so that Siobhan can take her first exam, Ebony laments how she can't sleep with Siobhan, to which her lover reassures her by reminding her that it's only for one night. While she was right at the time, [[spoiler: once she gets a job in New York, she and Ebony once again are unable to sleep with each other, but it's for a period that's ''much'' longer than one night]].
** Meta example: Back in ''Webcomic/MaddieInAmerica'', [=MacVeigh=] wound up removing a lot of the more sexual moments from the comic because he didn't like the tonal shift they created (despite the fact that doing so made the story kind of end in the middle). [[spoiler: Clearly, his stance on tonal shifts changed somewhere between then and Volume 11 of this comic, with the shift being much more drastic than the one in ''Webcomic/MaddieInAmerica'', although the moments that cause the shift in this comic are more of a violent nature than a sexual one]].
* HeartwarmingInHindsight: In Volume 8, we see that Ebony admitted she was a lesbian on her application. Some people questioned why she would do that when she knows the effect that has on people. She reveals why she did it, however, in Volume 10: [[spoiler: she was so proud of Siobhan coming out to her boss that it filled her with the confidence to do the same]].

* HilariousInHindsight: An example that was actually pointed out by [=MacVeigh=]. In Volume 9, Ebony meets a stewardess named Leni Carmichael. According to him, her name was taken from Leni Loud of ''WesternAnimation/TheLoudHouse'', one of his favorite shows, and the name Carmichael was something he came up with on his own. However, in the time between when he drew the page and when he posted it (a little less than a year), an episode of ''The Loud House'' aired where Leni gets a job at a shopping mall, and her boss' name is Mrs. Carmichael. [=MacVeigh=] claims that his jaw fell open when he watched it.

* IronWoobie: Though it was hinted at in the previous comics, the greater focus on Renee Pattinson in this story firmly establishes her as one. Her husband abruptly left her for another woman, just leaving a note that said "Sorry love, I've found someone else." She mentions that she felt like strangling him at the divorce hearing. It took her years to start trusting men again because she didn't want herself and Siobhan to go through the same horror story twice. And yet through it all, she never lets her bitterness toward him affect how she raised Siobhan, and she finally starts over again with love when [[spoiler: Harold Wisley]] comes into her life.

* LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt: A lot of fans reacted this way when [[spoiler: Siobhan and Ebony get separated due to Siobhan's new job in New York. Most of them believe there is no way that [=MacVeigh=] would allow them to be apart from each other for too long. The fact that his response to a commenter worried that this would strain their relationship was that it doesn't, but rather brings them closer together in a figurative sense helps to set up this mindset]]. [[spoiler: While they still aren't living together, Volume 7 ''does'' feature them reuniting for the holiday break]].[[spoiler: And as of Volume 8, they're finally living together again]].

* MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler: Charles Donovan]] crossed it when [[spoiler: he attempted to lure Siobhan to his townhouse to sleep with him by promising her career advancement]].
** While [[spoiler: the bar patrons in Florida]] ''might'' have an excuse for their homophobia (as this was the 80s, when things like gay relationships weren't fully understood by everyone), they officially crossed it when [[spoiler: they started beating up Siobhan and Ebony over it]].

* MorePopularSpinoff: If we compare subscriber counts on Webtoons, it seems to be becoming this to the ''Maddie'' series.

* RonTheDeathEater: Shortly after just the first few pages showing him were released, a few of the fans already treated [[spoiler: Jake Keefe]] like this, due to [[spoiler: perceiving his good looks, helpful demeanour, and closeness in age to Siobhan as possibly threatening her and Ebony's relationship]]. This mindset was put to rest for some people when [[spoiler: Siobhan mentions him to Ebony during a phone conversation, and she suspects (somewhat jokingly) that it might lead to love brewing, to which Siobhan responds by saying that she's "strictly on an all-girl diet."]] Though it still wasn't enough to satisfy everyone, as was evidenced by this comment on a batch of pages where [[spoiler: Siobhan tells her mom how she feels she can trust Jake]]:
--> '''Commenter:''' You can't trust [[spoiler: Jake]] any further than you can throw him! He's leering at you in meetings when you can't see him and [[spoiler: nobody you work with knows that you have a significant other]], so they're unlikely to say anything if they see him hitting on you or maybe taking advantage of you when you're drunk! Here's hoping that won't happen!
--> '''[=MacVeigh=]:''' (responding) [[spoiler: Jake isn't some kind of rapist, he's just someone Siobhan happens to work with xD]].

* ScheduleSlip: The comic has gone through a variety of scheduling regimens as this series has been moved from website to website due to hosting issues:
** Originally, when published on [=MacVeigh's=] personal website, the series was uploaded in its entirety with a planned schedule of new volumes every 60 days.
** When the series moved to Tapas.io (which is where it has stayed the longest), volumes are now updated every two months, with page batches uploaded Monday/Wednesday/Friday.
** When the series was hosted on Webtoons, the series was uploaded near constantly on a Monday/Wednesday/Friday basis, although there were gaps between when individual volumes were released; sometimes immediately after the previous while other times it would be the beginning of the next month.
** On Smack Jeeves, the comic is released twice daily.
* TheScrappy: Despite only being shown in a few panels, ''no one'' seems to like [[spoiler: Charles Donovan]] after [[spoiler: he attempted to lure Siobhan to his townhouse to sleep with him by promising her career advancement]].
** The same goes for [[spoiler: the two teammates of Ebony who hit her in the head with a toolbox in response to her being a lesbian. Fortunately, they do get fired as soon as they're found out]].
** With that in mind, let's also include [[spoiler: the bar patrons in Florida who fight Siobhan and Ebony, since the pain they inflict is even ''greater'' than what Ebony's coworkers did to her, to the point where Ebony struggles to get up afterwards- when she and Siobhan finally get to a hospital, Siobhan reports to her mother over the phone that Ebony got a punctured lung and five broken ribs. And even those that ''don't'' directly fight them refuse to help them, making them [[AccompliceByInaction Accomplices By Inaction]]]].
* [[ScrewedByTheNetwork Screwed By the Hosting Site]]: [=MacVeigh=] was forced to stop releasing pages of his comic on Webtoons due to the site's admins removing certain pages because of a conflict of content policy. As a result, his comic has now moved to [=ComicFury=]

* {{Squick}}: While giving Ebony a massage, Siobhan states that when she's done with her, she'll feel "as fresh as a newborn baby", to which Ebony replies "You mean naked, screaming and covered in blood?". Siobhan acknowledges this, and Ebony adds "Sounds like the first time I had a period!"; to which Siobhan sarcastically replies "Oh, thank you Miss Larsson, I appreciate that input!".

* ToughActToFollow: The time that [=MacVeigh=] has had to build up and develop the characters in the ''Maddie'' series and this comic may be the reason why his other comic, ''Webcomic/Red348'' barely gets noticed. Doesn't help that the latter comic suffered from ArcFatigue due to only being told through narration, only giving people a few pages once a week (the titular car didn't even show up until the sixth batch of pages was released, meaning people had to wait about a month and a half to see the awesome car they were promised), and a lack of development for most of the characters aside from the narrator, all of which his other comics avoided. It seems to mainly serve as AuthorAppeal for [=MacVeigh=] to showcase his love of cars. Fortunately, his second attempt at a comic not related to the ''Maddie'' series, ''Webcomic/WhenHeavenSpitsYouOut'', seems to be doing much better at being a worthy followup so far.
* ValuesResonance: Despite the 80s setting, the part where [[spoiler: Siobhan rejects an offer to advance in her company from Select Group member Charles Donovan because he wants her to spend the night at his townhouse]] is probably even more relevant now than it was back then thanks to all the [=#MeToo=] reports from women who experienced similar situations.

* WhatCouldHaveBeen: Had the series gone on, according to [=Macveigh=], some things that would have happened included:
** Ebony being involved in a near plane crash.
** Siobhan getting wrapped up in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, during which time she suffers a minor heart attack and left in a worrying state for a while.

* TheWoobie: Harold Wisley becomes one when we find out more about his past. He and his wife divorced not because they fell out of love, but because Harry could never guarantee he'd be home on time due to his job. He missed a lot of events, and his wife decided she couldn't live that kind of life anymore. As his kids are now grown up, he doesn't have a lot of people to visit him. Fortunately, things turn around for him when he gets invited to Siobhan and Ebony's Christmas party and is able to make a romantic connection with [[spoiler: Renee Pattinson]].
** Siobhan, Siobhan, Siobhan, do you ''ever'' get a break? It's now come to the point where she could be considered the designated woobie of [=MacVeigh's=] entire series. Trying so hard to get a job, even lying about her sexuality on the applications to increase her chances, only to get turned down by most places because of her gender, and failing the few interviews she gets invited to. At this point, when she ''does'' get a job, she will have most certainly [[EarnYourHappyEnding earned her happy ending]]. Not to mention her nearly getting into a fight with a police officer because he called her relationship with Ebony "filthy." [[spoiler: And even when she ''does'' get offered a job at the World Trade Center, it's not quite earning her happy ending because Ebony cannot legally join her in the United States, so the two are forced to be separated for however long it takes until they can be together again]]. [[spoiler: THEN, in Volume 8, she gets hit on by a Select Group member during a client meeting. While she rejects his offer to come to his townhouse to discuss "career advancement," it is clear that the incident traumatized her at least a bit]]. [[spoiler: At least at the end of Volume 8, Ebony is finally living with her again]].
** Not even Ebony, who is usually emotionally stronger than Siobhan, can escape being Woobiefied. Because of that, she comes off as an IronWoobie at most moments, such as [[spoiler: when she and Siobhan are separated due to Siobhan working in New York, because that gives her the motivation to apply for jobs in the US and eventually earn the right to live with her again]]. However, the moment where you truly just want to give her a hug is in Volume 10, where [[spoiler: after a magazine article published by the HR department of the airline she works for outs her as a lesbian, two of her coworkers throw a toolbox into a bathroom stall she is using; hitting her on the head. What makes this moment stand out in particular is that it's the first time in the series we see blood, as it winds up leaving Ebony with a nasty scar above her left eye. While the perpetrators of the incident do get fired once they're found out, Ebony mentions to Siobhan that, even then, she wishes that it never happened in the first place]].
** Both Siobhan and Ebony reach new levels of Woobiedom in Volume 11 when [[spoiler: they get beat up by two men in a bar in Florida who aren't satisfied with them being a same-sex couple. Ebony in particular winds up with a punctured lung and five broken ribs]].
** Leni becomes this when we learn that [[spoiler: her coworkers are pressuring her into having sex, something she doesn't want to do until she's happily married]]. Gets worse when she mentions that [[spoiler: all the decent girls left the airline in disgust and that she's really only staying with them because she has nowhere else to go]].
* WordOfGod: Adria Mackenzie, a family friend of the Pattinsons who winds up becoming Ebony's driving instructor, is named after the Slovenian airline Adria Airways.
** The orgy Ebony walks in on in Volume 9 is based a sex party a flatmate of [=MacVeigh's=] held when he was in University. While [=MacVeigh=] didn't partake in it, he found it hard to sleep because of it. According to [=MacVeigh=], in the room next door to his, his flatmate had a threesome on his drum kit with two girls which made a ton of noise, a group of girls and boys he'd invited went wild in the communal living room and left the place in tatters, while his two gay friends made love in the communal shower and left the controls... "erm... sticky..." Back then, the incident felt horrid for him, but now, he says he can look back on it and laugh.
* WriteWhatYouKnow: The part where Siobhan and Ebony are refused the right to share a room at a hotel because they're a same-sex couple is based on an incident [=MacVeigh=] heard about that happened in 2010, where a same-sex couple were refused to stay in the same hotel as each other by the management. This led to a rather controversial legal battle in which the hotel lost and was forced to close.

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: [[spoiler: The bar fight, and the injuries Siobhan and Ebony get from it]] in Volume 11 could trigger this for some people. Gets even worse when we learn that [[spoiler: it's unlikely that the men who assaulted them will be brought to justice due to the police hanging up the moment that they hear Siobhan and Ebony are a gay couple]]. Not helping is [=MacVeigh's=] warning at the end of Volume 10 that it would be the last chapter of happiness for the two. While fans still hold out hope that they will come out of this OK, that comment makes it seem like too much to ask.

* ToughActToFollow: The time that [=MacVeigh=] has had to build up and develop the characters in the ''Maddie'' series and this comic may be the reason why his other comic, ''Webcomic/Red348'' barely gets noticed. Doesn't help that the latter comic suffered from ArcFatigue due to only being told through narration, only giving people a few pages once a week (the titular car didn't even show up until the sixth batch of pages was released, meaning people had to wait about a month and a half to see the awesome car they were promised), and a lack of development for most of the characters aside from the narrator, all of which his other comics avoided. It seems to mainly serve as AuthorAppeal for [=MacVeigh=] to showcase his love of cars. Fortunately, his second attempt at a comic not related to the ''Maddie'' series, ''VisualNovel/WhenHeavenSpitsYouOut'', seems to be doing much better at being a worthy followup so far.

* ToughActToFollow: The time that [=MacVeigh=] has had to build up and develop the characters in the ''Maddie'' series and this comic may be the reason why his other comic, ''Webcomic/Red348'' barely gets noticed. Doesn't help that the latter comic suffered from ArcFatigue due to only being told through narration, only giving people a few pages once a week (the titular car didn't even show up until the sixth batch of pages was released, meaning people had to wait about a month and a half to see the awesome car they were promised), and a lack of development for most of the characters aside from the narrator, all of which his other comics avoided. It seems to mainly serve as AuthorAppeal for [=MacVeigh=] to showcase his love of cars.

* BiTheWay: Siobhan Pattinson; though she doesn't often admit this due to her fears of how it may affect her future.

* NeverLiveItDown: A few readers aren't going to let Siobhan live down actively ''suggesting'' to [[spoiler: walk hand in hand with Jake to her boss's Christmas party]], saying that it makes her seem like an unfaithful girlfriend to Ebony.

* HolyShitQuotient: The end of Volume 4 has Siobhan receiving an invitation to an interview at an unrevealed location that makes her react with shock. The beginning of Volume 5 reveals that the location in question is [[spoiler: the World Trade Center in New York City]].

''[[http://www.smackjeeves.com/comicprofile.php?id=179030 Outsiders]]'' (styled as "♀utsiders") was a webcomic by Ruairidh [=MacVeigh=] [[SpinOff spun off]] from his ''[[Webcomic/MaddieOnTheIslandHue Mad]][[Webcomic/MaddieInAmerica die]]'' comics. This time, the focus was on same-sex lovers Siobhan Pattinson and Ebony Larsson, Maddie's friends from the previous comics, as they start to plan their future, battling fear and prejudice to reach their goals in life. It will follow their development from aspiring teenage girls to hard working women. The comic has since been deleted.

''[[http://www.smackjeeves.com/comicprofile.php?id=179030 Outsiders]]'' (styled as "♀utsiders") is a webcomic by Ruairidh [=MacVeigh=] [[SpinOff spun off]] from his ''[[Webcomic/MaddieOnTheIslandHue Mad]][[Webcomic/MaddieInAmerica die]]'' comics. This time, the focus is on same-sex lovers Siobhan Pattinson and Ebony Larsson, Maddie's friends from the previous comics, as they start to plan their future, battling fear and prejudice to reach their goals in life. It will follow their development from aspiring teenage girls to hard working women. The comic is hosted on [=MacVeigh's=] ''[[https://tapas.io/episode/963762 Tapas.io]]'' account, as well as ''[[http://outsiders1993.smackjeeves.com/ Smack Jeeves]]''.

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: [[spoiler: The bar fight, and the injuries Siobhan and Ebony get from it]] in Volume 11 could trigger this for some people. Gets even worse when we learn that [[spoiler: it's unlikely that the men who assaulted them will be brought to justice due to the police hanging up the moment that they hear Siobhan and Ebony are a gay couple]]. Not helping is [=MacVeigh's=] warning at the end of Volume 10 that it would be the last chapter of happiness for the two. While fans still hold out hope that they will come out of this OK, that comment makes it seem like too much to ask.

* OnlySanePerson: Judging from what we've heard about the other employees of America National so far, Leni and Ebony seem to be the only ones in the company who don't see [[spoiler: sex]] as something that you need to do in order to be successful.

* In Volume 13, after a flight, Ebony is in a hotel in Indianapolis. She hears a knock on her door and looks through the peephole to see that it's Leni. She then asks "Huh, hvad laver hun her?" (Huh, what is she doing here?).

* In Volume 13, after a flight, Ebony is in a hotel. She hears a knock on her door and looks put the peephole to see that it's Leni. She then asks "Huh, hvad laver hun her?" (Huh, what is she doing here?).