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[[WMG:Angel is 131,400 years old.]]
[[spoiler:During the I'll Cover You reprise, the last line (one of them) is "525,600 Seasons of Love". As it is Angel's funeral, and they are all speaking for her, They're talking of her life. If you multiply 131,400 by four (one for each season), you get 525,600 seasons of love(/life).]]

[[spoiler:To put simply, Angel helped them believe in love, and so all 525,600 seasons of love stands for Angel's life span.]]

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[[WMG:Angel [[WMG: Angel is 131,400 years old.]]
[[spoiler:During [[spoiler: During the I'll Cover You reprise, the last line (one of them) is "525,600 Seasons of Love". As it is Angel's funeral, and they are all speaking for her, They're talking of her life. If you multiply 131,400 by four (one for each season), you get 525,600 seasons of love(/life).]]

[[spoiler:To [[spoiler: To put simply, Angel helped them believe in love, and so all 525,600 seasons of love stands for Angel's life span.]]



Pretty clearly implying that every minute is a "season of love" (which works given the play's general theme of "making every minute count"), [[spoiler:and THAT is how you "measure a last year on earth."]] [[spoiler:(Although, if Angel died on October 31 and Seasons of Love B is an interlude set around April (an earlier version of the script specifies that the events of the following song, "Without You," take place in April), Angel only made it about 308,000 "seasons of love" into the new year).]]

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Pretty clearly implying that every minute is a "season of love" (which works given the play's general theme of "making every minute count"), [[spoiler:and [[spoiler: and THAT is how you "measure a last year on earth."]] [[spoiler:(Although, if Angel died on October 31 and Seasons of Love B is an interlude set around April (an earlier version of the script specifies that the events of the following song, "Without You," take place in April), Angel only made it about 308,000 "seasons of love" into the new year).]]



* this is actually kind of offensive. Who cares what her parents chose as a name for her. The name she chose for herself is the one that matters. It is her REAL name.
* Unless the the writter of this WMG is using "real name" in the sense of "full name" or "legal name", which is very common in some places. (E.g. "His real name isn't Tommy, it's Thomas. Her name isn't Sam, it's Samantha.") Otherwise, as a name is simply an identifier, any name can be considered a "real" name. For example, this troper was once known exclusively as "the ''HAMMER''!"(relating to a noodle incident) for about a year and a half among his high-school drama department. It fulfilled the functionality of a name, and thus was a "real" name among that group and that time period, but no one would call it it a "real name". TLDR: "real name" is a common slang/idiom for one's legal name.

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* this This is actually kind of offensive. Who cares what her parents chose as a name for her. The name she chose for herself is the one that matters. It is her REAL name.
* Unless the the writter writer of this WMG is using "real name" in the sense of "full name" or "legal name", which is very common in some places. (E.g. "His real name isn't Tommy, it's Thomas. Her name isn't Sam, it's Samantha.") Otherwise, as a name is simply an identifier, any name can be considered a "real" name. For example, this troper was once known exclusively as "the ''HAMMER''!"(relating to a noodle incident) for about a year and a half among his high-school drama department. It fulfilled the functionality of a name, and thus was a "real" name among that group and that time period, but no one would call it it a "real name". TLDR: "real name" is a common slang/idiom for one's legal name.



* Angel is actually kind of a common male name in the Latino community, which is the original Angel and a lot of actors who play Angel's ethnicity. So it's not too odd if Angel is her birth name. It's usually pronounced AANG-HELL. But I can see her changing her name to Angel as well.

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* Angel is actually kind of a common male name in the Latino community, which is the original Angel Angel, and a lot of actors who play Angel's ethnicity. So it's not too odd if Angel is her birth name. It's usually pronounced AANG-HELL. But I can see her changing her name to Angel as well.



[[WMG:Collins is on something throughout the whole movie, or at least on the first Christmas Eve]]

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[[WMG:Collins [[WMG: Collins is on something throughout the whole movie, or at least on the first Christmas Eve]]



[[WMG:Angel is Santa Claus.]]
...So Santa [[spoiler:died of AIDS?]] DO NOT WANT.

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[[WMG:Angel [[WMG: Angel is Santa Claus.]]
...So Santa [[spoiler:died [[spoiler: died of AIDS?]] DO NOT WANT.



[[WMG:Mark is Bi]]

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[[WMG:Mark [[WMG: Mark is Bi]]



*** The actors of said in the recent Australian production hooked up.

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*** The actors of said Roger and Mark in the recent Australian production hooked up.



[[WMG:Certain songs were unfinished before Larson died.]]
I steadfastly refuse to believe that "think twice before you pooh-pooh it" is anything but a temporary lyic. It even breaks up the rhyme scheme.

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[[WMG:Certain [[WMG: Certain songs were unfinished before Larson died.]]
I steadfastly refuse to believe that "think twice before you pooh-pooh it" is anything but a temporary lyic.lyric. It even breaks up the rhyme scheme.






Despite creating and (on a whim) making a case for the guess as an AlternateCharacterInterpretation, I didn't believe this [[Tropers/{{JET73L}} myself]] until I came to this point: If she had AIDS, why would Benny sustain a relationship with her? It's not for sex, since ''nothing'' was ever given to indicate that he had AIDS/HIV (Yes, I do understand that even back then when treatments weren't as advanced as they now, many people were willing to trust thin, easily-broken latex barriers for long-term protection against this sort of thing). Status? She was a possibly-former stripper- or "[[InsistentTerminology S&M dancer]]"- who last year had the purported best hindquarters in the area but was canonically wasting away. A relationship built on love and mutual respect? Unless they both felt like lying about it in the same way, for some odd and so far obscure reason, this is ''definitely'' not the case. Spite? He didn't seem to care enough about Roger in particular to take her away with the sole purpose of causing him pain. The only reason I could figure for their relationship as it was shown (aside from the above parenthetical) was if Mimi didn't have AIDS and Benny knew.

[[WMG:During "What You Own", Mark is considering suicide.]]

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Despite creating and (on a whim) making a case for the guess as an AlternateCharacterInterpretation, I didn't believe this [[Tropers/{{JET73L}} myself]] until I came to this point: If she had AIDS, why would Benny sustain a relationship with her? It's not for sex, since ''nothing'' was ever given to indicate that he had AIDS/HIV (Yes, I do understand that even back then when treatments weren't as advanced as they are now, many people were willing to trust thin, easily-broken latex barriers for long-term protection against this sort of thing). Status? She was a possibly-former stripper- or "[[InsistentTerminology S&M dancer]]"- who last year had the purported best hindquarters in the area but was canonically wasting away. A relationship built on love and mutual respect? Unless they both felt like lying about it in the same way, for some odd and so far obscure reason, this is ''definitely'' not the case. Spite? He didn't seem to care enough about Roger in particular to take her away with the sole purpose of causing him pain. The only reason I could figure for their relationship as it was shown (aside from the above parenthetical) was if Mimi didn't have AIDS and Benny knew.

[[WMG:During [[WMG: During "What You Own", Mark is considering suicide.]]



* This theory doesn't make much sense, as almost everything that happens to him in act 2 contradicts this. He clearly interacts with other people in act 2, going to buzzline with Joanne and eventually working there, he attempts to calm everybody down in "Goodbye Love," and he tries to help Mimi in the same song. ("I know a place/a clinic) In the stage version Mark's mom calls, and there's no way she wouldn't know if he had died. Finally, if he had died, the final documentary would've been about people living in New York instead of focusing on Angel's life (and other people with HIV), as he only realized the idea in "What You Own". I'm not entirely sure where you got this idea from.

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* This theory doesn't make much sense, as almost everything that happens to him in act 2 contradicts this. He clearly interacts with other people in act 2, going to buzzline Buzzline with Joanne and eventually working there, he attempts to calm everybody down in "Goodbye Love," and he tries to help Mimi in the same song. ("I know a place/a clinic) In the stage version version, Mark's mom calls, and there's no way she wouldn't know if he had died. Finally, if he had died, the final documentary would've been about people living in New York instead of focusing on Angel's life (and other people with HIV), as he only realized the idea in "What You Own". I'm not entirely sure where you got this idea from.



Angel was paid to play drums outside Alison and Benny's place as revenge for all the noise their dog made. Normally, a dog in this situation would just "join in" by barking. No one expected the dog to "commit suicide" by jumping. Either Evita got so excited by the noise of the drums she didn't realize how close to the edge she was or someone up there (Benny?) got sick of the noise and punted that akita to her death.

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Angel was paid to play drums outside Alison and Benny's place as revenge for all the noise their dog made. Normally, a dog in this situation would just "join in" by barking. No one expected the dog to "commit suicide" by jumping. Either Evita got so excited by the noise of the drums she didn't realize how close to the edge she was or someone up there (Benny?) got sick of the noise and punted that akita Akita to her death.



-->This akita, Evita, just won't shut up.

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-->This akita, Akita, Evita, just won't shut up.



* What about the parts of "What You Own" in which we see and hear Riger, even though he's 1990 miles away from Mark and his camera?

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* What about the parts of "What You Own" in which we see and hear Riger, Roger, even though he's 1990 miles away from Mark and his camera?
** Roger, at some point after he comes back, but before the final song/scene, tells Mark everything and helps him come up with a way to present it?



He has to sell his guitar to buy a car, which can't be a particularly good car, and that doesn't account for how he manages to pay for gas to get all the way there (let alone all the way back). Only in the movie do we see Roger actually IN Santa Fe (though granted Rent has minimal staging anyway). We know he leaves on Halloween, the same day as Angel's funeral, and the play ends on Christmas Eve, which gives him a solid two months, but it's unclear exactly where on that timeline "What You Own" falls and Roger makes it back to New York City, since nothing happens onstage between "What You Own" and the finale. Accounting for driving time both to and from New Mexico in a shitty car, even if he did get there he couldn't have been there long. The film even shows him already back in New York when the search for Mimi is on (the film states, for around a month). Taking all that into account, it's very possible he made it no further than the New York
border before he had his epiphany and turned the car around.

to:

He has to sell his guitar to buy a car, which can't be a particularly good car, and that doesn't account for how he manages to pay for gas to get all the way there (let alone all the way back). Only in the movie do we see Roger actually IN Santa Fe (though granted Rent has minimal staging anyway). We know he leaves on Halloween, the same day as Angel's funeral, and the play ends on Christmas Eve, which gives him a solid two months, but it's unclear exactly where on that timeline "What You Own" falls and Roger makes it back to New York City, since nothing happens onstage between "What You Own" and the finale. Accounting for driving time both to and from New Mexico in a shitty car, even if he did get there he couldn't have been there long. The film even shows him already back in New York when the search for Mimi is on (the film states, for around a month). Taking all that into account, it's very possible he made it no further than the New York
York border before he had his epiphany and turned the car around.
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Capitalization was fixed from WMG.RENT to WMG.Rent. Null edit to update page.
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Ghost wick was fixed on WMG.Rent.

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* Mark was indeed confirmed as bi in early drafts of the script -- Roger mentions that he "slept" with half the boys in his film class".


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** That is only canon to the movie, not the play... ''but'', it just so happens that in the movie, there's no mention of Allison finding out about Benny's affair with Mimi and taking him away from the neighborhood at the end.
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Despite creating and (on a whim) making a case for the guess as an AlternateCharacterInterpretation, I didn't believe this [[Tropers/{{JET73L}} myself]] until I came to this point: If she had AIDS, why would Benny sustain a relationship with her? It's not for sex, since ''nothing'' was ever given to indicate that he had AIDS/HIV (Yes, I do understand that even back then when treatments weren't as advanced as they now, many people were willing to trust thin, easily-broken latex barriers for long-term protection against this sort of thing). Status? She was a possibly-former stripper- or "[[InsistentTerminology
S&M dancer]]"- who last year had the purported best hindquarters in the area but was canonically wasting away. A relationship built on love and mutual respect? Unless they both felt like lying about it in the same way, for some odd and so far obscure reason, this is ''definitely'' not the case. Spite? He didn't seem to care enough about Roger in particular to take her away with the sole purpose of causing him pain. The only reason I could figure for their relationship as it was shown (aside from the above parenthetical) was if Mimi didn't have AIDS and Benny knew.

to:

Despite creating and (on a whim) making a case for the guess as an AlternateCharacterInterpretation, I didn't believe this [[Tropers/{{JET73L}} myself]] until I came to this point: If she had AIDS, why would Benny sustain a relationship with her? It's not for sex, since ''nothing'' was ever given to indicate that he had AIDS/HIV (Yes, I do understand that even back then when treatments weren't as advanced as they now, many people were willing to trust thin, easily-broken latex barriers for long-term protection against this sort of thing). Status? She was a possibly-former stripper- or "[[InsistentTerminology
"[[InsistentTerminology S&M dancer]]"- who last year had the purported best hindquarters in the area but was canonically wasting away. A relationship built on love and mutual respect? Unless they both felt like lying about it in the same way, for some odd and so far obscure reason, this is ''definitely'' not the case. Spite? He didn't seem to care enough about Roger in particular to take her away with the sole purpose of causing him pain. The only reason I could figure for their relationship as it was shown (aside from the above parenthetical) was if Mimi didn't have AIDS and Benny knew.
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[[WMG:Rent is just {{Newsies}} with AIDS.]]

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[[WMG:Rent is just {{Newsies}} ''Film/{{Newsies}}'' with AIDS.]]
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*** They're actually married now.
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*There's a "Santa Fe" restaurant on the Upper East Side. Roger could have driven to it, said "Welp. There goes that idea" and driven back. As he's not terribly creative, this is possible. It did take him a year to write half a song, you know.
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Corrected the name of the state in which Santa Fe is located.


He has to sell his guitar to buy a car, which can't be a particularly good car, and that doesn't account for how he manages to pay for gas to get all the way there (let alone all the way back). Only in the movie do we see Roger actually IN Santa Fe (though granted Rent has minimal staging anyway). We know he leaves on Halloween, the same day as Angel's funeral, and the play ends on Christmas Eve, which gives him a solid two months, but it's unclear exactly where on that timeline "What You Own" falls and Roger makes it back to New York City, since nothing happens onstage between "What You Own" and the finale. Accounting for driving time both to and from Arizona in a shitty car, even if he did get there he couldn't have been there long. The film even shows him already back in New York when the search for Mimi is on (the film states, for around a month). Taking all that into account, it's very possible he made it no further than the New York

to:

He has to sell his guitar to buy a car, which can't be a particularly good car, and that doesn't account for how he manages to pay for gas to get all the way there (let alone all the way back). Only in the movie do we see Roger actually IN Santa Fe (though granted Rent has minimal staging anyway). We know he leaves on Halloween, the same day as Angel's funeral, and the play ends on Christmas Eve, which gives him a solid two months, but it's unclear exactly where on that timeline "What You Own" falls and Roger makes it back to New York City, since nothing happens onstage between "What You Own" and the finale. Accounting for driving time both to and from Arizona New Mexico in a shitty car, even if he did get there he couldn't have been there long. The film even shows him already back in New York when the search for Mimi is on (the film states, for around a month). Taking all that into account, it's very possible he made it no further than the New York

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----
<<|WildMassGuessing|>>

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----
<<|WildMassGuessing|>>

[[WMG: Angel's birth name was Ángel]]
Like the male Spanish name. Angel uses the English pronunciation because "Angel" with the English pronunciation is usually a female name, but since it's still kind of a male Spanish name, it suits someone who doesn't exactly identify as male or female.

----
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Pretty clearly implying that every minute is a "season of love" (which works given the play's general theme of "making every minute count"), [[Spoiler: and THAT is how you "measure a last year on earth."]] [[Spoiler:(Although, if Angel died on October 31 and Seasons of Love B is an interlude set around April (an earlier version of the script specifies that the events of the following song, "Without You," take place in April), Angel only made it about 308,000 "seasons of love" into the new year).]]

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Pretty clearly implying that every minute is a "season of love" (which works given the play's general theme of "making every minute count"), [[Spoiler: and [[spoiler:and THAT is how you "measure a last year on earth."]] [[Spoiler:(Although, [[spoiler:(Although, if Angel died on October 31 and Seasons of Love B is an interlude set around April (an earlier version of the script specifies that the events of the following song, "Without You," take place in April), Angel only made it about 308,000 "seasons of love" into the new year).]]
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Pretty clearly implying that every minute is a "season of love" (which works given the play's general theme of "making every minute count"), and THAT is how you "measure a last year on earth." (Although, if Angel died on October 31 and Seasons of Love B is an interlude set around April (an earlier version of the script specifies that the events of the following song, "Without You," take place in April), Angel only made it about 308,000 "seasons of love" into the new year).

to:

Pretty clearly implying that every minute is a "season of love" (which works given the play's general theme of "making every minute count"), [[Spoiler: and THAT is how you "measure a last year on earth." (Although, "]] [[Spoiler:(Although, if Angel died on October 31 and Seasons of Love B is an interlude set around April (an earlier version of the script specifies that the events of the following song, "Without You," take place in April), Angel only made it about 308,000 "seasons of love" into the new year).
year).]]

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* The lyric is
--> 525,600 minutes
--> 525,000 seasons of love.
Pretty clearly implying that every minute is a "season of love" (which works given the play's general theme of "making every minute count"), and THAT is how you "measure a last year on earth." (Although, if Angel died on October 31 and Seasons of Love B is an interlude set around April (an earlier version of the script specifies that the events of the following song, "Without You," take place in April), Angel only made it about 308,000 "seasons of love" into the new year).
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Added DiffLines:


[[WMG: Roger never makes it to Santa Fe.]]

He has to sell his guitar to buy a car, which can't be a particularly good car, and that doesn't account for how he manages to pay for gas to get all the way there (let alone all the way back). Only in the movie do we see Roger actually IN Santa Fe (though granted Rent has minimal staging anyway). We know he leaves on Halloween, the same day as Angel's funeral, and the play ends on Christmas Eve, which gives him a solid two months, but it's unclear exactly where on that timeline "What You Own" falls and Roger makes it back to New York City, since nothing happens onstage between "What You Own" and the finale. Accounting for driving time both to and from Arizona in a shitty car, even if he did get there he couldn't have been there long. The film even shows him already back in New York when the search for Mimi is on (the film states, for around a month). Taking all that into account, it's very possible he made it no further than the New York
border before he had his epiphany and turned the car around.
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to:

** While Angel is not canonically Latin@, besides casting choices, there are clues in the play that Angel could very well be Latin@: Angel's life motto ("Today for you, tomorrow for me") is a direct translation of a Spanish phrase endorsing acts of kindness towards strangers ("Hoy por tí, mañana por yo"); Angel is close to Mimi (who IS canonically Latina), and duets with Mimi during La Vie Boheme to celebrate (among other things) rice, beans and cheese and huevos rancheros. In the movie, Angel also quips to Collins in Spanish about Mark's fixation on Maureen. The Tony Award-winning first Broadway Angel (also the Angel of the film), Wilson Jermaine Heredia, is Dominicano.




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** He frequently has a joint behind his ear in the film too.



** Evidence: Angel is at the very least Mark's muse, since zir death is what inspires him to finish his work. Mark might not recognize it because it's the nineties, so he might think that he's only attracted to Angel when dressed as a woman, but there's definitely something there.

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** Evidence: Angel is at the very least Mark's muse, since zir Angel's death is what inspires him to finish his work. Mark might not recognize it because it's the nineties, so he might think that he's only attracted to Angel when dressed as a woman, but there's definitely something there.
*** Mark doesn't seem to identify Angel as a woman. He has to be reminded of Angel's pronouns when delivering his part of Angel's eulogy, after first using male pronouns.




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* Mark explicitly refers to Angel as a drag queen at Angel's funeral. Collins, who is closest to Angel, being Angel's partner, living with Angel and nursing Angel through AIDS, uses male pronounces to refer to Angel, as well as calling Angel a boy, which Angel doesn't seem to mind. The characters who use female pronouns to refer to Angel seem to really only know Angel when Angel is presenting as a woman; it's polite in drag culture, too, to use the pronouns of the gender the person is presenting as (unless they specify otherwise). Angel chooses to present as a man at Life Support meetings, and Mark has attended these, so he has seen Angel both ways, which could explain his confusion. Angel's gender IS ill-defined, but the clues that DO exist in the play point far more in the direction of Angel as a drag queen than as identifying as any form of non-binary gender.




to:

* See above; Mark explicitly calls Angel a drag queen at Angel's funeral. Angel chooses to present as a man at Life Support meetings. Collins consistently refers to Angel using male pronouns. The only characters who don't are characters who really only know Angel when Angel is presenting in drag, with the exception of Mark who has seen Angel both in AND out of drag, and shows confusion about which pronouns to use at the funeral. Rent is also set at a time when New York City had a strong drag culture, particularly in Black and Latin@ communities, and while Angel's race/ethnicity is not canonically specified, casting choices and various clues in the play have consistently implied that Angel is Black and/or Latin@ (the original Broadway Angel, who won a Tony for his portrayal, Wilson Jermaine Heredia, is Dominicano). Angel could very well be intended to represent this subculture.




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* "Ali" isn't a canonical name. As you note, the names were chosen to represent individuals known by cast and crew who had died due to AIDS.




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* I have always interpreted Angel killing Evita as a fairly literal example of [[ShootTheDog Shooting the Dog]], that is, a morally ambiguous act committed mostly out of pragmatism. It shows that Angel has to hustle to survive.
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[[WMG: Benny never actually told Mark and Roger they didn't have to pay rent.]]

Either Mark and Roger are remembering the interpretation they want to be true or they're straight up trying to gaslight Benny by insisting he said something he didn't say, but either way, Benny never had any intention of letting them live there perpetually rent-free. He really doesn't seem to be such an asshole as to demand an entire year's worth of payment on Christmas unless he's been pushed off over and over. And, from the scene at Life Cafe, we know Mark really has an incredible disregard for the value of others' time and money. He's terribly entitled. So, for example, Benny says "You're golden," meaning he'll be a good landlord and not drive prices up and they simply take it to mean what they want it to mean.



<<|WildMassGuessing|>>

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<<|WildMassGuessing|>>

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*What about the parts of "What You Own" in which we see and hear Riger, even though he's 1990 miles away from Mark and his camera?
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**I wish to know this noodle incident; please elaborate. Or, in theatre speak: "Tell me more, tell me more."
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*Which is why it's not weird that he's narrating everything, even when he doesn't appear to be filming! You are so brilliant, I could kiss you!
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*This theory doesn't make much sense, as almost everything that happens to him in act 2 contradicts this. He clearly interacts with other people in act 2, going to buzzline with Joanne and eventually working there, he attempts to calm everybody down in "Goodbye Love," and he tries to help Mimi in the same song. ("I know a place/a clinic) In the stage version Mark's mom calls, and there's no way she wouldn't know if he had died. Finally, if he had died, the final documentary would've been about people living in New York instead of focusing on Angel's life (and other people with HIV), as he only realized the idea in "What You Own". I'm not entirely sure where you got this idea from.
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* Angel is actually kind of a common male name in the Latino community, which is the original Angel and a lot of actors who play Angel's ethnicity. So it's not too odd if Angel is her birth name. It's usually pronounced AANG-HELL. But I can see her changing her name to Angel as well.
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* Unless the the writter of this WMG is using "real name" in the sense of "full name" or "legal name", which is very common in some places. (E.g. "His real name isn't Tommy, it's Thomas. Her name isn't Sam, it's Samantha.") Otherwise, as a name is simply an identifier, any name can be considered a "real" name. For example, this troper was once known exclusively as "the ''HAMMER''!"(relating to a noodle incident) for about a year and a half among his high-school drama department. It fulfilled the functionality of a name, and thus was a "real" name among that group and that time period, but no one would call it it a "real name".

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* Unless the the writter of this WMG is using "real name" in the sense of "full name" or "legal name", which is very common in some places. (E.g. "His real name isn't Tommy, it's Thomas. Her name isn't Sam, it's Samantha.") Otherwise, as a name is simply an identifier, any name can be considered a "real" name. For example, this troper was once known exclusively as "the ''HAMMER''!"(relating to a noodle incident) for about a year and a half among his high-school drama department. It fulfilled the functionality of a name, and thus was a "real" name among that group and that time period, but no one would call it it a "real name".
name". TLDR: "real name" is a common slang/idiom for one's legal name.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* Unless the the writter of this WMG is using "real name" in the sense of "full name" or "legal name", which is very common in some places. (E.g. "His real name isn't Tommy, it's Thomas. Her name isn't Sam, it's Samantha.") Otherwise, as a name is simply an identifier, any name can be considered a "real" name. For example, this troper was once known exclusively as "the ''HAMMER''!"(relating to a noodle incident) for about a year and a half among his high-school drama department. It fulfilled the functionality of a name, and thus was a "real" name among that group and that time period, but no one would call it it a "real name".

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