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** Unconfirmed...for now.


[[WMG:[[spoiler:The Phantom is [[MetalGearSolid Decoy Octopus]].]]]]

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[[WMG:[[spoiler:The Phantom is [[MetalGearSolid [[VideoGame/MetalGearSolid Decoy Octopus]].]]]]


[[WMG: Florent L'Belle is [[HarryPotter Gilderoy Lockhart]] from an alternate universe.]]

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[[WMG: Florent L'Belle is [[HarryPotter [[Franchise/HarryPotter Gilderoy Lockhart]] from an alternate universe.]]


** The OP is probably suggesting this since Clay's death ''is'' rather peculiar, there already was a conspiracy going on, and how everyone at the station but Starbuck acted pretty weird about Clay's death. It doesn't really matter what it does to Starbuck, Athena, or Apollo because this isn't about the meta "why would the game makers do this". It's about a quick-thinking plan by Arme, Aura, and Cosmos to save Clay's life and protect him from the phantom without real thought to how it would affect anyone else. If word got out that Clay had been saved, the phantom would no doubt go for him again. So only Arme, Aura, a coroner, and Cosmos knew Clay had been saved. People faking their deaths isn't unusual for this series and we know some coroners aren't above faking an autopsy report, because that's how Manfred got a black mark on his record. It's likely ''Edgeworth'' didn't know unless he has a very good reason for concealing the fact Clay isn't dead, but it's still possible Cosmos, Arme, and Aura faked Clay's death with the help of a coroner.

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** The OP is probably suggesting this since Clay's death ''is'' rather peculiar, there already was a conspiracy going on, and how everyone at the station but Starbuck acted pretty weird about Clay's death. It doesn't really matter what it does to Starbuck, Athena, or Apollo because this isn't about the meta "why would the game makers do this". It's about a quick-thinking plan by Arme, Aura, and Cosmos to save Clay's life and protect him from the phantom without real thought to how it would affect anyone else. If word got out that Clay had been saved, the phantom would no doubt go for him again. So only Arme, Aura, a coroner, and Cosmos knew Clay had been saved. People faking their deaths isn't unusual for this series and we know some coroners aren't above faking an autopsy report, because that's how Manfred got a black mark on his record. It's likely ''Edgeworth'' didn't know unless he has a very good reason for concealing the fact Clay isn't dead, but it's still possible Cosmos, Arme, and Aura faked Clay's death with the help of a coroner. Also, the Cosmic Turnabout wouldn't be "useless" since they did find out who murdered Metis Cykes and that Bobby Fulbright is (hypothetically) dead. He's one who could also still be alive, since Edgeworth only ''says'' he's dead and the phantom isn't charged with Fulbright's murder.


** The problem with this theory is that it basically implies that the entirety of the Cosmic Turnabout was essentially useless, since anyone could just reveal the truth at any time and things would have ended the same way. The robots are also hardly life-life enough to stand in for Clay's corpse, and anyone would be able to tell the difference. This would also imply that evidence like the autopsy report which clearly stated that Clay was dead was directly faked, and that they were going through with pushing at what was basically false charges. I don't know about you, but that just doesn't seem like something Edgeworth would allow to me. Getting a coroner to forge autopsy results is a serious crime, and if we're basically trying tos say that all of this was basically just a conspiracy that was kept hush-hush between certain people, it'd be very, very illegal. Not to mention, it's kinda morally dubious as well, when it comes to what it ends up doing to Starbuck and Athena, and Apollo. Not to mention, making up the fact that someone's died to catch someone out is a ''major'' case of entrapment, and there's no way that'd be allowed on any legal level. Not even in the Ace Attorney world and even with the Chief Prosecutor's backing. (If I recall Myriam directly mentions the entrapment objection at one point, so it definitely exists in this world)

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** * The problem with this theory is that it basically implies that the entirety of the Cosmic Turnabout was essentially useless, since anyone could just reveal the truth at any time and things would have ended the same way. The robots are also hardly life-life enough to stand in for Clay's corpse, and anyone would be able to tell the difference. This would also imply that evidence like the autopsy report which clearly stated that Clay was dead was directly faked, and that they were going through with pushing at what was basically false charges. I don't know about you, but that just doesn't seem like something Edgeworth would allow to me. Getting a coroner to forge autopsy results is a serious crime, and if we're basically trying tos say that all of this was basically just a conspiracy that was kept hush-hush between certain people, it'd be very, very illegal. Not to mention, it's kinda morally dubious as well, when it comes to what it ends up doing to Starbuck and Athena, and Apollo. Not to mention, making up the fact that someone's died to catch someone out is a ''major'' case of entrapment, and there's no way that'd be allowed on any legal level. Not even in the Ace Attorney world and even with the Chief Prosecutor's backing. (If I recall Myriam directly mentions the entrapment objection at one point, so it definitely exists in this world)world)
** The OP is probably suggesting this since Clay's death ''is'' rather peculiar, there already was a conspiracy going on, and how everyone at the station but Starbuck acted pretty weird about Clay's death. It doesn't really matter what it does to Starbuck, Athena, or Apollo because this isn't about the meta "why would the game makers do this". It's about a quick-thinking plan by Arme, Aura, and Cosmos to save Clay's life and protect him from the phantom without real thought to how it would affect anyone else. If word got out that Clay had been saved, the phantom would no doubt go for him again. So only Arme, Aura, a coroner, and Cosmos knew Clay had been saved. People faking their deaths isn't unusual for this series and we know some coroners aren't above faking an autopsy report, because that's how Manfred got a black mark on his record. It's likely ''Edgeworth'' didn't know unless he has a very good reason for concealing the fact Clay isn't dead, but it's still possible Cosmos, Arme, and Aura faked Clay's death with the help of a coroner.


* ...their designs will be loosely based off of their [[http://images.wikia.com/aceattorney/images/c/ce/Onimusha_Soul_Kay_4.jpg Onimusha]] [[http://images.wikia.com/aceattorney/images/d/d4/Onimusha_Soul_Maya_4.jpg Soul]] [[http://images.wikia.com/aceattorney/images/4/4b/Onimusha_Soul_Franz_4.jpg outfits]].
* In addition, if Kay does appear again, her Little Thief will also be based off of her Onimusha Soul design, where the Little Thief will now be a sort of [[TrickedOutGloves Tricked Out Glove]].

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* ...their designs will be loosely based off of their [[http://images.''[[http://images.wikia.com/aceattorney/images/c/ce/Onimusha_Soul_Kay_4.jpg Onimusha]] [[http://images.wikia.com/aceattorney/images/d/d4/Onimusha_Soul_Maya_4.jpg Soul]] Soul]]'' [[http://images.wikia.com/aceattorney/images/4/4b/Onimusha_Soul_Franz_4.jpg outfits]].
* In addition, if Kay does appear again, her Little Thief will also be based off of her Onimusha Soul ''VideoGame/OnimushaSoul'' design, where the Little Thief will now be a sort of [[TrickedOutGloves Tricked Out Glove]].


* [[PoisonOakEpilepticTrees I'd not like to believe this WMG.]]

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* [[PoisonOakEpilepticTrees [[WMG/PoisonOakEpilepticTrees I'd not like to believe this WMG.]]



[[PoisonOakEpilepticTrees I sincerely hope this doesn't happen]], but it seems pretty likely.

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[[PoisonOakEpilepticTrees [[WMG/PoisonOakEpilepticTrees I sincerely hope this doesn't happen]], but it seems pretty likely.



Think about it. Why would [[spoiler: such a [[ImplacableMan agent like the Phantom]], (or whoever employs him) [[KillAndReplace kill Fullbright]] but not cut his fingerprints off after wending his life? BECAUSE THE BODY WAS DESIGNED TO BE FOUND. Who would find it? A person in the court system, who could hide it from public knowledge until [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness Fulbright needed to be silenced]]. It's easy enough to fake fingerprints if you can make full-scale face masks that look real. [[PoisonOakEpilepticTrees Ema Skye could have been killed for finding out!]] [[TheChessmaster He got Phoenix convicted on trumped-up charges caused by conspiracy, he has black Psyche-locks, and has demonstrated unparalleled manipulation of the system. Your Honor, I submit that Kristoph Gavin has been using the whole court system, slowly, to get his way and provide his own warped sense of 'Justice' to the proceedings, and that he is , in fact, a fellow conspirator, and probably the attorney behind Fullbright's conviction.]]]]

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Think about it. Why would [[spoiler: such a [[ImplacableMan agent like the Phantom]], (or whoever employs him) [[KillAndReplace kill Fullbright]] but not cut his fingerprints off after wending his life? BECAUSE THE BODY WAS DESIGNED TO BE FOUND. Who would find it? A person in the court system, who could hide it from public knowledge until [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness Fulbright needed to be silenced]]. It's easy enough to fake fingerprints if you can make full-scale face masks that look real. [[PoisonOakEpilepticTrees [[WMG/PoisonOakEpilepticTrees Ema Skye could have been killed for finding out!]] [[TheChessmaster He got Phoenix convicted on trumped-up charges caused by conspiracy, he has black Psyche-locks, and has demonstrated unparalleled manipulation of the system. Your Honor, I submit that Kristoph Gavin has been using the whole court system, slowly, to get his way and provide his own warped sense of 'Justice' to the proceedings, and that he is , in fact, a fellow conspirator, and probably the attorney behind Fullbright's conviction.]]]]


[[WMG: The Phantom is [[CthulhuMythos Nyarlathotep.]]]]

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[[WMG: The Phantom is [[CthulhuMythos [[Franchise/CthulhuMythos Nyarlathotep.]]]]


A big deal is being made over this game having a darker tone. The first case is about a bomb in a courtroom which surely would entail a higher body count than usual (since it's usually just one) and that's just the beginning. I wouldn't be surprised if another aspect is that changes have been made to the courts to possibly make them even more harsh, as Phoenix himself said in AJ:AA that a dark time for them is coming. But really, how much 'darkness' can come out of that? The aim of the game is always to win the case [[spoiler: (I know, there's an exception to that but shut up!)]] so if Phoenix is still managing that (and by now he must be [[GenreSavvy savvy to the fact that if his client is innocent, he WILL win in the end)]] then how dark can it be? If times are really difficult for Phoenix, and he's in a properly bad place, I'd guess that either an established character from his trilogy or someone else he knew closely is dead.

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A big deal is being made over this game having a darker tone. The first case is about a bomb in a courtroom which surely would entail a higher body count than usual (since it's usually just one) and that's just the beginning. I wouldn't be surprised if another aspect is that changes have been made to the courts to possibly make them even more harsh, as Phoenix himself said in AJ:AA that a dark time for them is coming. But really, how much 'darkness' can come out of that? The aim of the game is always to win the case [[spoiler: (I know, there's an exception to that but shut up!)]] so if Phoenix is still managing that (and by now he must be [[GenreSavvy savvy to the fact that if his client is innocent, he WILL win in the end)]] end) then how dark can it be? If times are really difficult for Phoenix, and he's in a properly bad place, I'd guess that either an established character from his trilogy or someone else he knew closely is dead.


** However, considering this is a 3DS game, it will be the ProfessorLaytonVSAceAttorney version. Either that, or Phoenix changed his ringtone.

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** However, considering this is a 3DS game, it will be the ProfessorLaytonVSAceAttorney ''VideoGame/ProfessorLaytonVsAceAttorney'' version. Either that, or Phoenix changed his ringtone.



*** Well, it's never shown but it's implied that [[spoiler: Eve and Espella]] from VisualNovel/ProfessorLaytonVsPhoenixWrightAceAttorney could have had them. There are no Psyche-Locks in that game at all, so it's impossible to tell, but their trauma and reaction to the traumatic event lines up exactly with what happened to Athena and her locks. Granted, they're not an ideal example because I can't prove they had the same Locks and evidence is everything in court. So while it's merely conjecture, it is a possibility.

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*** Well, it's never shown but it's implied that [[spoiler: Eve and Espella]] from VisualNovel/ProfessorLaytonVsPhoenixWrightAceAttorney ''VisualNovel/ProfessorLaytonVsPhoenixWrightAceAttorney'' could have had them. There are no Psyche-Locks in that game at all, so it's impossible to tell, but their trauma and reaction to the traumatic event lines up exactly with what happened to Athena and her locks. Granted, they're not an ideal example because I can't prove they had the same Locks and evidence is everything in court. So while it's merely conjecture, it is a possibility.



As seen in [[spoiler:VisualNovel/ProfessorLaytonVsPhoenixWrightAceAttorney british government played a major role in almost everything and used illegal means]] to achieve a needed result. They [[spoiler:used simple people as test subjects and brainwashed them for testing unique only to Labyrinthia ink and a water.]] It is highly possible that they did the exact same thing with [[spoiler:Phantom, brainwashing him and making him forget everything about his real identity, this also explains his identity crysis. To keep effect constantly they most likely handled him a quill or a pen with the same ink which they used to brainwash people]] So every time he wrote something during his job, [[spoiler:impersonating someone, the ink effect was renewed, and prevented him from regaining his concious and real memories. After he was sent to custody in the end of DD, he can't use his pen/quill anymore, so he will eventually regain his memories in the new game, and this will be the crucial moment which leads the main cast to eventually bringing down the main villain of next main AA game.]]

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As seen in [[spoiler:VisualNovel/ProfessorLaytonVsPhoenixWrightAceAttorney [[spoiler:''VisualNovel/ProfessorLaytonVsPhoenixWrightAceAttorney'' british government played a major role in almost everything and used illegal means]] to achieve a needed result. They [[spoiler:used simple people as test subjects and brainwashed them for testing unique only to Labyrinthia ink and a water.]] It is highly possible that they did the exact same thing with [[spoiler:Phantom, brainwashing him and making him forget everything about his real identity, this also explains his identity crysis. To keep effect constantly they most likely handled him a quill or a pen with the same ink which they used to brainwash people]] So every time he wrote something during his job, [[spoiler:impersonating someone, the ink effect was renewed, and prevented him from regaining his concious and real memories. After he was sent to custody in the end of DD, he can't use his pen/quill anymore, so he will eventually regain his memories in the new game, and this will be the crucial moment which leads the main cast to eventually bringing down the main villain of next main AA game.]]


* The only hole I can really shoot in this is that [[spoiler: black Psyche-Locks guard secrets that even the owner of the locks doesn't have an (initial) answer to; they're a subconscious, psychological block over both mind and heart. Every other single set of locks we've seen, the person has ''purposely'' kept the information to themselves despite having an answer to the question and forced Phoenix (or Edgeworth) to practically drag the truth out of them, and they relent with enough evidence. With the black locks, it's coaxing the truth to the surface; the truth from them can't be forced to the surface lest it damage the person forever, according to Pearl. Black locks aren't triggered by a lie or avoidance of the question like the red ones are, they're triggered, well, by a {{trigger}} and it's unlikely that they're genetic; trauma isn't genetic. They're rare because so few people suffer such deep psychological scars that goes even beyond PTSD, and because Phoenix doesn't deal with many people who have dealt with this problem.]]

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* The only hole I can really shoot in this is that [[spoiler: black Psyche-Locks guard secrets that even the owner of the locks doesn't have an (initial) answer to; they're a subconscious, psychological block over both mind and heart. Every other single set of locks we've seen, the person has ''purposely'' kept the information to themselves despite having an answer to the question and forced Phoenix (or Edgeworth) to practically drag the truth out of them, and they relent with enough evidence. With the black locks, it's coaxing the truth to the surface; the truth from them can't be forced to the surface lest it damage the person forever, according to Pearl. Black locks aren't triggered by a lie or avoidance of the question like the red ones are, they're triggered, well, by a {{trigger}} [[TraumaButton trigger]] and it's unlikely that they're genetic; trauma isn't genetic. They're rare because so few people suffer such deep psychological scars that goes even beyond PTSD, and because Phoenix doesn't deal with many people who have dealt with this problem.]]


To put it simply, a lot of people thought the original cast died before Ace Attorney 4 came out. Who's to say {{Capcom}} didn't try to invert this?

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To put it simply, a lot of people thought the original cast died before Ace Attorney 4 came out. Who's to say {{Capcom}} Creator/{{Capcom}} didn't try to invert this?


[[WMG: Simon Blackquill is the [[SaintSeiya Capricorn Gold Saint]] of the second quarter of the 21st century.]]

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[[WMG: Simon Blackquill is the [[SaintSeiya [[Manga/SaintSeiya Capricorn Gold Saint]] of the second quarter of the 21st century.]]

Added DiffLines:

**The problem with this theory is that it basically implies that the entirety of the Cosmic Turnabout was essentially useless, since anyone could just reveal the truth at any time and things would have ended the same way. The robots are also hardly life-life enough to stand in for Clay's corpse, and anyone would be able to tell the difference. This would also imply that evidence like the autopsy report which clearly stated that Clay was dead was directly faked, and that they were going through with pushing at what was basically false charges. I don't know about you, but that just doesn't seem like something Edgeworth would allow to me. Getting a coroner to forge autopsy results is a serious crime, and if we're basically trying tos say that all of this was basically just a conspiracy that was kept hush-hush between certain people, it'd be very, very illegal. Not to mention, it's kinda morally dubious as well, when it comes to what it ends up doing to Starbuck and Athena, and Apollo. Not to mention, making up the fact that someone's died to catch someone out is a ''major'' case of entrapment, and there's no way that'd be allowed on any legal level. Not even in the Ace Attorney world and even with the Chief Prosecutor's backing. (If I recall Myriam directly mentions the entrapment objection at one point, so it definitely exists in this world)


** Why is asthma the go-to for characters like [[ProfessorLaytonAndTheLastSpectre Arianna]], [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Wally]], and Juniper? Like I'd be offended myself, because all these characters are super fragile and frail and can't go outside or do anything, which implies that all asthmatics are that way, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case. But everyone just dismisses this as asthma. Asthma can't be romanticised- there's no mystery to it and it's pretty common. There's nothing "lovely" about occasional breathing problems. This is because it doesn't make you delicate or frail, considering that people who are obese or do sports can likewise have asthma. There's nothing tragic about it. There's nothing to really make you feel total sympathy for a character that has asthma the same way you would if they're dying of a terminal illness, which is why the illnesses are never given. [[IllGirl Juniper's]] [[IncurableCoughOfDeath coughing]] [[SoapOperaDisease is caused by her unnamed illness]], and is not asthma. Unless you want to tell me that being asthmatic makes you unable to go to school or do anything lest your fragile disposition be unable to tolerate even someone talking to you without you falling into an attack, because that's how it's implied to have been for Juniper, since she's already a pretty weak character and Athena talks about how she "didn't even recognise" Juniper because of how much "stronger" she is.

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** Why is asthma the go-to for characters like [[ProfessorLaytonAndTheLastSpectre [[VideoGame/ProfessorLaytonAndTheLastSpecter Arianna]], [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Wally]], and Juniper? Like I'd be offended myself, because all these characters are super fragile and frail and can't go outside or do anything, which implies that all asthmatics are that way, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case. But everyone just dismisses this as asthma. Asthma can't be romanticised- there's no mystery to it and it's pretty common. There's nothing "lovely" about occasional breathing problems. This is because it doesn't make you delicate or frail, considering that people who are obese or do sports can likewise have asthma. There's nothing tragic about it. There's nothing to really make you feel total sympathy for a character that has asthma the same way you would if they're dying of a terminal illness, which is why the illnesses are never given. [[IllGirl Juniper's]] [[IncurableCoughOfDeath coughing]] [[SoapOperaDisease is caused by her unnamed illness]], and is not asthma. Unless you want to tell me that being asthmatic makes you unable to go to school or do anything lest your fragile disposition be unable to tolerate even someone talking to you without you falling into an attack, because that's how it's implied to have been for Juniper, since she's already a pretty weak character and Athena talks about how she "didn't even recognise" Juniper because of how much "stronger" she is.

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