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[[spoiler: Confirmed as of ''Origins''. William is still alive.]]


And they'll be just as brutal, if not worse, than the ones in AC4

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And they'll be just as brutal, if not worse, than the ones in AC4VideoGame/AssassinsCreedIVBlackFlag.



The achievements for the game are out now, and since they involve fixing computers, it's gonna go two ways: either you're a new IT guy replacing John after the events of AC4, or you are still playing as RL, the previous modern day character.

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The achievements for the game are out now, and since they involve fixing computers, it's gonna go two ways: either you're a new IT guy replacing John after the events of AC4, VideoGame/AssassinsCreedIVBlackFlag, or you are still playing as RL, the previous modern day character.


** Both of those characters [[spoiler: have confirmed death dates]]. However, this theory does raise the question of why Abstergo would bother combing through Shay's memories, since they could, you know, just ask him (maybe Shay's are only used for indoctrination purposes?)

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** Both of those characters [[spoiler: have confirmed death dates]]. However, this This theory does raise raises the question of why Abstergo would bother combing through Shay's memories, since they could, you know, just ask him (maybe Shay's are only used for indoctrination purposes?)



Because of assassins like Adéwalé the order had made huge inroads with former slaves and early abolitionists. In order to weaken this base in New York the Templars spread rumors that, like in 1712, black slaves were about to rebel. Those accusations enabled them to hold kangaroo courts for those they suspected were assassin allies. Depending on his age the Finnegans' son may have been involved as one of the early accusers. It could even have been where he showed his loyalty by implicating others as co conspirators (the 4 white people hung would have been known assassins under this wmg). All of this lead to a weakened Brotherhood desperate to preserve whatever connections it can. Which is why when Shay arrives on scene the largest Assassin allied factions are gangs. Armed criminals would be much harder for Templars to dislodge than hapless slaves and civilians.

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Because of assassins like Adéwalé the order had made huge inroads with former slaves and early abolitionists. In order to weaken this base in New York the Templars spread rumors that, like in 1712, black slaves were about to rebel. Those accusations enabled them to hold kangaroo courts for those they suspected were assassin allies. Depending on his age the Finnegans' son may have been involved as one of the early accusers. It could even have been where he showed his loyalty by implicating others as co conspirators (the 4 white people hung would have been known assassins under this wmg). All of this lead led to a weakened Brotherhood desperate to preserve whatever connections it can. Which is why when Shay arrives on scene the largest Assassin allied factions are gangs. Armed criminals would be much harder for Templars to dislodge than hapless slaves and civilians.civilians.

[[WMG: Shay's mind was warped by the Lisbon Piece of Eden]]
In order to set the stage for the events of ''[=ACIII=]'', Juno warped Shay's memories and perception of reality. His inability to properly talk with Achilles, stealing the manuscript instead of burning it, the MotiveDecay in his last scene are because he is being controlled by someone with an agenda different from his own.



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** Definitely Jossed by the first ''Last Descendents'' book. One of the ancestors in that book is Shay's grandson Cudgel Cormac. Furthermore, since Cudgel's memories were being relived in an Animus by one of the modern day characters, Shay clearly has descendants that could have willingly donated their DNA to Abstergo.


[[WMG: Shay is [[AssassinsCreedUnity Elise's]] father.]]

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[[WMG: Shay is [[AssassinsCreedUnity [[VideoGame/AssassinsCreedUnity Elise's]] father.]]


[[WMG: The Templars orchestrated the 1941 Slave Conspiracy Trials]]

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[[WMG: The Templars orchestrated the 1941 1741 Slave Conspiracy Trials]]


** Both of those characters [[spoiler: have confirmed death dates]]. However, this theory does raise the question of why Abstergo would bother combing through Shay's memories, since they could, you know, just ask him (maybe Shay's are only used for indoctrination purposes?)

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** Both of those characters [[spoiler: have confirmed death dates]]. However, this theory does raise the question of why Abstergo would bother combing through Shay's memories, since they could, you know, just ask him (maybe Shay's are only used for indoctrination purposes?)purposes?)

[[WMG: The Templars orchestrated the 1941 Slave Conspiracy Trials]]
Because of assassins like Adéwalé the order had made huge inroads with former slaves and early abolitionists. In order to weaken this base in New York the Templars spread rumors that, like in 1712, black slaves were about to rebel. Those accusations enabled them to hold kangaroo courts for those they suspected were assassin allies. Depending on his age the Finnegans' son may have been involved as one of the early accusers. It could even have been where he showed his loyalty by implicating others as co conspirators (the 4 white people hung would have been known assassins under this wmg). All of this lead to a weakened Brotherhood desperate to preserve whatever connections it can. Which is why when Shay arrives on scene the largest Assassin allied factions are gangs. Armed criminals would be much harder for Templars to dislodge than hapless slaves and civilians.


** Both of those characters are confirmed dead. However, this theory does raise the question of why Abstergo would bother combing through Shay's memories, since they could, you know, just ask him (maybe Shay's are only used for indoctrination purposes?)

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** Both of those characters are [[spoiler: have confirmed dead.death dates]]. However, this theory does raise the question of why Abstergo would bother combing through Shay's memories, since they could, you know, just ask him (maybe Shay's are only used for indoctrination purposes?)


* If immortality is possible in the AC-verse, why waste it on Shay, why not give it to Edward or Haytham, characters who are more popular than Shay. Anyway, the General of the Cross for it to be a PlotTwist has to be a character we know right from the beginning. So a better candidate for that would be [[spoiler:William Miles]].

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* If immortality is possible in the AC-verse, why waste it on Shay, why not give it to Edward or Haytham, characters who are more popular than Shay. Anyway, the General of the Cross for it to be a PlotTwist has to be a character we know right from the beginning. So a better candidate for that would be [[spoiler:William Miles]].Miles]].
** Both of those characters are confirmed dead. However, this theory does raise the question of why Abstergo would bother combing through Shay's memories, since they could, you know, just ask him (maybe Shay's are only used for indoctrination purposes?)


** If immortality is possible in the AC-verse, why waste it on Shay, why not give it to Edward or Haytham, characters who are more popular than Shay. Anyway, the General of the Cross for it to be a PlotTwist has to be a character we know right from the beginning. So a better candidate for that would be [[spoiler:William Miles]].

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** * If immortality is possible in the AC-verse, why waste it on Shay, why not give it to Edward or Haytham, characters who are more popular than Shay. Anyway, the General of the Cross for it to be a PlotTwist has to be a character we know right from the beginning. So a better candidate for that would be [[spoiler:William Miles]].


From a diagetic standpoint, the General should be someone we know from experience and Shay is one of the only Templars with no confirmed death, and a suitably tumultuous backstory for a great villain. Considering the Pieces of Eden can do pretty much anything, immortality is probably not difficult to achieve in this setting. Add these factors up and you've got one awesome reveal coming your way.

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From a diagetic standpoint, the General should be someone we know from experience and Shay is one of the only Templars with no confirmed death, and a suitably tumultuous backstory for a great villain. Considering the Pieces of Eden can do pretty much anything, immortality is probably not difficult to achieve in this setting. Add these factors up and you've got one awesome reveal coming your way.way.
** If immortality is possible in the AC-verse, why waste it on Shay, why not give it to Edward or Haytham, characters who are more popular than Shay. Anyway, the General of the Cross for it to be a PlotTwist has to be a character we know right from the beginning. So a better candidate for that would be [[spoiler:William Miles]].


Shay being a brutal HeroKiller gives a good reason for his utter lack of mention by both men, both of whom want Connor to live.

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Shay being a brutal HeroKiller gives a good reason for his utter lack of mention by both men, both of whom want Connor to live.live.

[[WMG: Shay has somehow survived to modern day and he's the current General of the Cross]]
From a diagetic standpoint, the General should be someone we know from experience and Shay is one of the only Templars with no confirmed death, and a suitably tumultuous backstory for a great villain. Considering the Pieces of Eden can do pretty much anything, immortality is probably not difficult to achieve in this setting. Add these factors up and you've got one awesome reveal coming your way.



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** Connor Davenport is mentioned, but does not appear.




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* Jossed.




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* This would certainly explain why Haytham gives Shay so little thought in ''Forsaken.'' He also gives Shay a "Don't disappoint us" speech and at the end [[spoiler: he sends Shay on a decades long mouse hunt.]]



** There are two who meet TheRival trope between themselves. Chevalier is the Assassin most antagonistic and competitive towards Shay. Liam is Shay's close friend who Shay considered a shoo-in for the next Mentor.




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* Probably Jossed. Shay has no romantic relationships in the game, but is well alive and easily in a position to father a descendant.



** This doesn't necessarily mean that Templars were not evil and Assassins were not righteous, just that there may have been some exaggeration.

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** This doesn't necessarily mean that Templars were not evil and Assassins were not righteous, just that there may have been some exaggeration.exaggeration.

[[WMG: Achilles and Haytham made a point of directing Connor away from Shay.]]
Shay being a brutal HeroKiller gives a good reason for his utter lack of mention by both men, both of whom want Connor to live.


As described in Shay's profile, he fell apart when his dad died until he joined up with the Assassins. But his new father figure Achilles is stern and distant when Shay wants approval and love, so Shay acts like a rebellious teenager, always questioning Achilles acting belligerent. But when his new father figure George Monro spoilers him with things like a decent family and Templar friends that are all nice to him, Shay follows Monro without question because he wants his new dad's continued approval.

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As described in Shay's profile, he fell apart when his dad died until he joined up with the Assassins. But his new father figure Achilles is stern and distant when Shay wants approval and love, so Shay acts like a rebellious teenager, always questioning Achilles acting belligerent. But when his new father figure George Monro spoilers him with things like a decent family and Templar friends that are all nice to him, Shay follows Monro without question because he wants his new dad's continued approval.approval.

[[WMG: Animus Memories contain Bias]]
In the one game where we are allowed to play as a Templar, the Assassins are portrayed as the villains and Templars as the (morally ambiguous) heroes, and back in ACIII, there was no sign that Haytham's group were evil until TheReveal, so it makes sense to conclude that Templars appear more villainous while looking through the eyes of an Assassin, and visa versa. The Assassins in Rogue may not be quite as evil as the Templars in previous games, but that's only logical when you see that Cormac clearly doesn't ''want'' to think of his ex-comrades as villains.
** This doesn't necessarily mean that Templars were not evil and Assassins were not righteous, just that there may have been some exaggeration.


** Confirmed. Hope Jensen easily fills out the role, but is also TheSmartGirl in the Brotherhood



*** A further look confirms that Kesegowaase is Abenaki, not Mohawk like Connor was.



He'll be very disappointed that his best friend's son is the very thing they fought against.
** The reason Adewale gets defeated is that Haytham arrives in time and distracts him and Adewale cannot bring himself to kill Edward's son. That mercy costs him. In the WhiteVoidRoom, he and Haytham will have a chat while Shay looks over.

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He'll be very disappointed that his best friend's son is the very thing they fought against. \n** The reason Adewale gets defeated is that Haytham arrives in time and distracts him and Adewale cannot bring himself to kill Edward's son. That mercy costs him. In the WhiteVoidRoom, he and Haytham will have a chat while Shay looks over.
** Unfortunately confirmed, but averted in the WhiteVoidRoom. Shay and Adewale speak to each other before Haytham steps in at the very end



** Partially. Shay lives, but Achilles does get his injury when Haytham kneecaps him

This explains why Shay isn't even ''referred'' to in '''III''' and downplays the RememberTheNewGuy aspect of his insertion into the game. Achilles and Haytham both saw Shay as a dead end and had not relevant to Connor's story.

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** Partially. Shay lives, but Achilles does get his injury when Haytham kneecaps him

him.

*
This explains why Shay isn't even ''referred'' to in '''III''' and downplays the RememberTheNewGuy aspect of his insertion into the game. Achilles and Haytham both saw Shay as a dead end and had not relevant to Connor's story.

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