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Of course, getting the lords of the vale to accept this would not be easy. Still, if the vale wre somehow conquered by the mountain tribes, who've been mentioned as growing bolder and stronger several times, Timmett could both have a blood claim and be a powerful leader among the tribes, making him a good way to give the conquest of the Vale a veneer of legitimacy.
to:
Of course, getting the lords of the vale to accept this would not be easy. Still, if the vale wre were somehow conquered by the mountain tribes, who've been mentioned as growing bolder and stronger several times, Timmett could both have a blood claim and be a powerful leader among the tribes, making him a good way to give the conquest of the Vale a veneer of legitimacy.
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It should also be noted that in many ways, Timett is the foil to Harry the Heir, in personality (Timmet isn't interested in whores, while Harry is womanizer with 1 bastard and another on the way), and achievements (Timett is a seasoned warrior while Harry's biggest "victory" was winning a tournament that was rigged for him to win.)
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[[The Piss that was Promised]]
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[[The Piss that was Promised]]
Euron is going to drown in Aeron's urine.
This has been foreshadowed so much I'll be shocked if it doesn't happen. Why?
Aeron has a nearly inhuman ability to urinate. The books say he could piss out a hearth fire. When he was imprisoned at Casterly Rock, the Lannisters would visit him in the dungeon just to watch him piss.
Aeron hates Euron because he was molested by him as a child.
Much is made of how Aeron has never drowned anyone to death, which makes him unique among priests of the Drowned God.
The last time we've seen Aeron, he's tied to the bow of Euron's ship and drinking sea water. Drinking sea water makes your kidneys work extra hard to flush the salt from your system.
Euron is the brand name for urine receptacles.
Here's how I think it's going to go down. Euron will be taunting Aeron, maybe brings up the molestation. Aeron says something about how unclean it was when Euron put his mouth on him, convincing Euron to perform oral sex on him, at which time Aeron releases the seawater that has distended his bladder. This results in Euron drowning to death - the first and only time Aeron drowns a man and fails to bring him back to life.
I believe that GRRM has been planning this since before the first book. Why? It's established early that Theon's siblings have names ending in -on. I believe that GRRM saw a urine receptacle with Euron printed on it and got the idea of naming a character that and having them drown in urine. I believe Euron was the first Greyjoy he named and he gave the other brothers similar names as misdirection.
Euron is going to drown in Aeron's urine.
This has been foreshadowed so much I'll be shocked if it doesn't happen. Why?
Aeron has a nearly inhuman ability to urinate. The books say he could piss out a hearth fire. When he was imprisoned at Casterly Rock, the Lannisters would visit him in the dungeon just to watch him piss.
Aeron hates Euron because he was molested by him as a child.
Much is made of how Aeron has never drowned anyone to death, which makes him unique among priests of the Drowned God.
The last time we've seen Aeron, he's tied to the bow of Euron's ship and drinking sea water. Drinking sea water makes your kidneys work extra hard to flush the salt from your system.
Euron is the brand name for urine receptacles.
Here's how I think it's going to go down. Euron will be taunting Aeron, maybe brings up the molestation. Aeron says something about how unclean it was when Euron put his mouth on him, convincing Euron to perform oral sex on him, at which time Aeron releases the seawater that has distended his bladder. This results in Euron drowning to death - the first and only time Aeron drowns a man and fails to bring him back to life.
I believe that GRRM has been planning this since before the first book. Why? It's established early that Theon's siblings have names ending in -on. I believe that GRRM saw a urine receptacle with Euron printed on it and got the idea of naming a character that and having them drown in urine. I believe Euron was the first Greyjoy he named and he gave the other brothers similar names as misdirection.
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Changed line(s) 4,12 (click to see context) from:
Jon is described as looking fully Stark, and that he "has none of his mother in him." This is because both his parents were Starks
Benjen went to The Wall after Brandon died, when his place as the second oldest son would be in Winterfell ruling it while Eddard was away. He went there in shame because of the consequences of his incest.
Benjen and Lyanna are shown as being very close in one of Bran's visions.
Lyanna went to the Tourney at Harrenhall to speak wiith Rhaegar because she wanted the advice of someone who did not think incest was a taboo. Unfortunately, this backfired because of Rhaegar's knowledge off ancient prophecies.
Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna because he knew a pure Stark baby would fulfill a prophecy about the coming Great Night.
Benjen acts very paternal to Jon.
Ned Stark was unusually understanding of Cersei's incest because he had experience of this in his own family.
The result of this incest creates a very interesting situation for Westeros. There are three races in Westeros, the Andals, the First Men, and the Valyrians. There willl be three monarchs, one of each race, each conceived in sibling incest. I believe there is a prophecy about this that Rhaegar was aware of which colored his actions.
Benjen went to The Wall after Brandon died, when his place as the second oldest son would be in Winterfell ruling it while Eddard was away. He went there in shame because of the consequences of his incest.
Benjen and Lyanna are shown as being very close in one of Bran's visions.
Lyanna went to the Tourney at Harrenhall to speak wiith Rhaegar because she wanted the advice of someone who did not think incest was a taboo. Unfortunately, this backfired because of Rhaegar's knowledge off ancient prophecies.
Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna because he knew a pure Stark baby would fulfill a prophecy about the coming Great Night.
Benjen acts very paternal to Jon.
Ned Stark was unusually understanding of Cersei's incest because he had experience of this in his own family.
The result of this incest creates a very interesting situation for Westeros. There are three races in Westeros, the Andals, the First Men, and the Valyrians. There willl be three monarchs, one of each race, each conceived in sibling incest. I believe there is a prophecy about this that Rhaegar was aware of which colored his actions.
to:
* Jon is described as looking fully Stark, and that he "has none of his mother in him." This is because both his parents were Starks
* Benjen went to The Wall after Brandon died, when his place as the second oldest son would be in Winterfell ruling it while Eddard was away. He went there in shame because of the consequences of his incest.
* Benjen and Lyanna are shown as being very close in one of Bran's visions.
* Lyanna went to the Tourney at Harrenhall to speak wiith Rhaegar because she wanted the advice of someone who did not think incest was a taboo. Unfortunately, this backfired because of Rhaegar's knowledge off ancient prophecies.
* Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna because he knew a pure Stark baby would fulfill a prophecy about the coming Great Night.
* Benjen acts very paternal to Jon.
* Ned Stark was unusually understanding of Cersei's incest because he had experience of this in his own family.
* The result of this incest creates a very interesting situation for Westeros. There are three races in Westeros, the Andals, the First Men, and the Valyrians. There willl be three monarchs, one of each race, each conceived in sibling incest. I believe there is a prophecy about this that Rhaegar was aware of which colored his actions.
* Benjen went to The Wall after Brandon died, when his place as the second oldest son would be in Winterfell ruling it while Eddard was away. He went there in shame because of the consequences of his incest.
* Benjen and Lyanna are shown as being very close in one of Bran's visions.
* Lyanna went to the Tourney at Harrenhall to speak wiith Rhaegar because she wanted the advice of someone who did not think incest was a taboo. Unfortunately, this backfired because of Rhaegar's knowledge off ancient prophecies.
* Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna because he knew a pure Stark baby would fulfill a prophecy about the coming Great Night.
* Benjen acts very paternal to Jon.
* Ned Stark was unusually understanding of Cersei's incest because he had experience of this in his own family.
* The result of this incest creates a very interesting situation for Westeros. There are three races in Westeros, the Andals, the First Men, and the Valyrians. There willl be three monarchs, one of each race, each conceived in sibling incest. I believe there is a prophecy about this that Rhaegar was aware of which colored his actions.
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[[WMG: Jon is the child of Benjen and Lyanna]]]
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[[WMG: Jon is the child of Benjen and Lyanna]]]
Lyanna]]
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[[WMG: Jon is the child of Benjen and Lyanna]]]
There is so much circumstantial evidence that points towards this.
Jon is described as looking fully Stark, and that he "has none of his mother in him." This is because both his parents were Starks
Benjen went to The Wall after Brandon died, when his place as the second oldest son would be in Winterfell ruling it while Eddard was away. He went there in shame because of the consequences of his incest.
Benjen and Lyanna are shown as being very close in one of Bran's visions.
Lyanna went to the Tourney at Harrenhall to speak wiith Rhaegar because she wanted the advice of someone who did not think incest was a taboo. Unfortunately, this backfired because of Rhaegar's knowledge off ancient prophecies.
Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna because he knew a pure Stark baby would fulfill a prophecy about the coming Great Night.
Benjen acts very paternal to Jon.
Ned Stark was unusually understanding of Cersei's incest because he had experience of this in his own family.
The result of this incest creates a very interesting situation for Westeros. There are three races in Westeros, the Andals, the First Men, and the Valyrians. There willl be three monarchs, one of each race, each conceived in sibling incest. I believe there is a prophecy about this that Rhaegar was aware of which colored his actions.
There is so much circumstantial evidence that points towards this.
Jon is described as looking fully Stark, and that he "has none of his mother in him." This is because both his parents were Starks
Benjen went to The Wall after Brandon died, when his place as the second oldest son would be in Winterfell ruling it while Eddard was away. He went there in shame because of the consequences of his incest.
Benjen and Lyanna are shown as being very close in one of Bran's visions.
Lyanna went to the Tourney at Harrenhall to speak wiith Rhaegar because she wanted the advice of someone who did not think incest was a taboo. Unfortunately, this backfired because of Rhaegar's knowledge off ancient prophecies.
Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna because he knew a pure Stark baby would fulfill a prophecy about the coming Great Night.
Benjen acts very paternal to Jon.
Ned Stark was unusually understanding of Cersei's incest because he had experience of this in his own family.
The result of this incest creates a very interesting situation for Westeros. There are three races in Westeros, the Andals, the First Men, and the Valyrians. There willl be three monarchs, one of each race, each conceived in sibling incest. I believe there is a prophecy about this that Rhaegar was aware of which colored his actions.
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Hey, it could have happened...
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Hey, it could have happened...happened...
[[WMG:Septa Lemore is a Hightower and possibly Young Griff's mother]]
Tyrion notes he figured out everyone else ''except'' her and wonders who she is and whether she's even a septa - that sets her up as being an important character with a mystery to be solved. A noblewoman in disguise would fit the bill. Her name is vaguely similar to those of several in the current generation of House Hightower (Lord '''Le'''yton, '''Le'''yla, Malora sounds ''very'' similar to Lemore - perhaps Lemore even ''is'' Malora, like Arya going by Arry when incognito) and one from the past (Prince Per'''emore'''), and families in this series tend to have ThemeNaming, so "Lemore" may be choosing an alias as a private reference or with meaning to her. Hightowers have powerful connections with the Citadel and the Faith, so a Hightower lady would have the knowledge needed to pass herself off as a septa and could easily have the connections to have recruited Haldon Halfmaester as Young Griff's tutor (theoretically a Hightower could recruit a full-fledged maester, but a failed acolyte dropping off the face of the earth to go running off to Essos would raise less questions than a full maester). Hightowers are [[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Hightower#Traits vaguely implied]] to have silvery-gold hair, which is pretty distinctive for a Westeros-born septa and could necessitate dyeing her hair as Young Griff does. The Hightowers are a rich and powerful family, doubly so with their influence on the Faith and the Citadel - Illyrio and Varys courting them to Young Griff's cause via Lemore would be a major advantage for them, and would benefit the Hightowers as usurping House Tyrell in influence again as Aegon's backers should he become King.
(Note: It's also mentioned Lord Leyton and Malora have been busy consulting "spellbooks" - like Melisandre, are they trying to find a way to hatch new dragons, to give to Young Griff? The dragons originally died out after the Dance that House Hightower instigated back then, it would be ironic to have them be the ones actively looking for a way to bring dragons back after all this time to once again cement the rule of their preferred king.)
As Lemore is implied to have had a child, it's possible she is Young Griff's real mother and is passing him off as the murdered Prince Aegon, sticking close by as his spiritual tutor so she could remain with him. If she does have silver-gold hair, this could be where he really got it from. Assuming "Aegon" and Daenerys end up clashing as rivals, Lemore being on "Aegon's" side as a Hightower (especially if she is his mother) [[HistoryRepeats would deepen the Dance of the Dragons parallels]]. Even if she isn't the mother but is a Hightower, that would give Daenerys at least two different flavors of FamilialFoe to face like a Greatest Hits compilation for the last Targaryen of some of the greatest threats to their rule - the Golden Company that started out as a Blackfyre group and includes the descendants of their supporters again backing the claimant of questionable legitimacy, House Hightower once again backing the last-minute male claimant against the long-expected female one, maybe even throw in House Martell for extra spice and reheat that good old-fashioned Rhoynish v Valyrian bloodfeud if they believe Young Griff is Elia's son and [[spoiler:seek revenge for Quentyn's death from Dany's dragons]], with "Aegon" possibly simply Illyrio Mopatis' son with the Lyseni SexSlave Serra[[note]]Hence HIS unusually melancholic reaction to not getting to see Young Griff[[/note]] without a drop of Blackfyre ''or'' Hightower blood and [[UnwittingPawn tragically oblivious to the fact he isn't who he's supposed to be]].
[[WMG:Septa Lemore is a Hightower and possibly Young Griff's mother]]
Tyrion notes he figured out everyone else ''except'' her and wonders who she is and whether she's even a septa - that sets her up as being an important character with a mystery to be solved. A noblewoman in disguise would fit the bill. Her name is vaguely similar to those of several in the current generation of House Hightower (Lord '''Le'''yton, '''Le'''yla, Malora sounds ''very'' similar to Lemore - perhaps Lemore even ''is'' Malora, like Arya going by Arry when incognito) and one from the past (Prince Per'''emore'''), and families in this series tend to have ThemeNaming, so "Lemore" may be choosing an alias as a private reference or with meaning to her. Hightowers have powerful connections with the Citadel and the Faith, so a Hightower lady would have the knowledge needed to pass herself off as a septa and could easily have the connections to have recruited Haldon Halfmaester as Young Griff's tutor (theoretically a Hightower could recruit a full-fledged maester, but a failed acolyte dropping off the face of the earth to go running off to Essos would raise less questions than a full maester). Hightowers are [[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Hightower#Traits vaguely implied]] to have silvery-gold hair, which is pretty distinctive for a Westeros-born septa and could necessitate dyeing her hair as Young Griff does. The Hightowers are a rich and powerful family, doubly so with their influence on the Faith and the Citadel - Illyrio and Varys courting them to Young Griff's cause via Lemore would be a major advantage for them, and would benefit the Hightowers as usurping House Tyrell in influence again as Aegon's backers should he become King.
(Note: It's also mentioned Lord Leyton and Malora have been busy consulting "spellbooks" - like Melisandre, are they trying to find a way to hatch new dragons, to give to Young Griff? The dragons originally died out after the Dance that House Hightower instigated back then, it would be ironic to have them be the ones actively looking for a way to bring dragons back after all this time to once again cement the rule of their preferred king.)
As Lemore is implied to have had a child, it's possible she is Young Griff's real mother and is passing him off as the murdered Prince Aegon, sticking close by as his spiritual tutor so she could remain with him. If she does have silver-gold hair, this could be where he really got it from. Assuming "Aegon" and Daenerys end up clashing as rivals, Lemore being on "Aegon's" side as a Hightower (especially if she is his mother) [[HistoryRepeats would deepen the Dance of the Dragons parallels]]. Even if she isn't the mother but is a Hightower, that would give Daenerys at least two different flavors of FamilialFoe to face like a Greatest Hits compilation for the last Targaryen of some of the greatest threats to their rule - the Golden Company that started out as a Blackfyre group and includes the descendants of their supporters again backing the claimant of questionable legitimacy, House Hightower once again backing the last-minute male claimant against the long-expected female one, maybe even throw in House Martell for extra spice and reheat that good old-fashioned Rhoynish v Valyrian bloodfeud if they believe Young Griff is Elia's son and [[spoiler:seek revenge for Quentyn's death from Dany's dragons]], with "Aegon" possibly simply Illyrio Mopatis' son with the Lyseni SexSlave Serra[[note]]Hence HIS unusually melancholic reaction to not getting to see Young Griff[[/note]] without a drop of Blackfyre ''or'' Hightower blood and [[UnwittingPawn tragically oblivious to the fact he isn't who he's supposed to be]].
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* It could also be another fanatic like Selyse orders the sacrifice, following Melisandre's teachings and thinking it ''is'' the blood of a king, without Melisandre present to tell them otherwise. Melisandre is off doing Melisandre things and arrives late to the party for a real double-whammy of [[spoiler:"the Night's Watch rebelled and murdered Lord Commander Snow"]] and "my followers have already sacrificed an innocent baby to the flames". To maximize the tragic irony, despite the above point about "the innocent", Melisandre would actually have stopped her followers and spared the baby if she'd been present, to keep Jon as a more willing ally, same as she secretly spared the baby's "father" Mance Rayder for another purpose despite having the blood of a king in her clutches. Either way, she will be blamed for the baby's horrific murder, putting her in good company with other people like Theon Greyjoy and Jaime Lannister as "not quite as evil as they're generally believed to be and didn't do this particular wrong thing, but history won't care".
to:
* It could also be another fanatic like Selyse orders the sacrifice, following Melisandre's teachings and thinking it ''is'' the blood of a king, without Melisandre present to tell them otherwise. Melisandre is off doing Melisandre things and arrives late to the party for a real double-whammy of [[spoiler:"the Night's Watch rebelled and murdered Lord Commander Snow"]] and "my followers have already sacrificed an innocent baby to the flames". To maximize the tragic irony, despite the above point about "the innocent", Melisandre would actually have stopped her followers and spared the baby if she'd been present, to keep Jon as a more willing ally, same as she secretly spared the baby's "father" Mance Rayder for another purpose despite having the blood of a king in her clutches. Either way, she will be blamed for the baby's horrific murder, putting her in good company with other people like Theon Greyjoy and Jaime Lannister as "not quite as evil as they're generally believed to be and didn't do this particular wrong thing, but history won't care".care".
[[WMG:Weasel, the little orphan girl from the Riverlands, was eventually found by the Brotherhood Without Banners and brought to the Crossroads Inn]]
Hey, it could have happened...
[[WMG:Weasel, the little orphan girl from the Riverlands, was eventually found by the Brotherhood Without Banners and brought to the Crossroads Inn]]
Hey, it could have happened...
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Changed line(s) 7,12 (click to see context) from:
Buried in Littlefinger's extremely long explanation of why Harry is the heir to the Vale is that one of the older sisters was carried off by Burned Men, the same tribe Timmett is from. If Timmett father of Timmett was married to that woman, he could technically be the heir to the vale before Harry.
Of course, getting the lords of the vale to accept this would not be easy. Still, if the vale were somehow conquered by the mountain tribes, who've been mentioned as growing bolder and stronger several times, Timmett could both have a blood claim and be a powerful leader among the tribes, making him a good way to give the conquest of the Vale a veneer of legitimacy.
It's also [[CrackPairing amusing to note]] that Timmett is a skilled fighter with a serious burn injury on his face, giving him a superficial similarity to a younger Sandor Clegane, and might well recognize Sansa if he saw her.
Of course, getting the lords of the vale to accept this would not be easy. Still, if the vale were somehow conquered by the mountain tribes, who've been mentioned as growing bolder and stronger several times, Timmett could both have a blood claim and be a powerful leader among the tribes, making him a good way to give the conquest of the Vale a veneer of legitimacy.
It's also [[CrackPairing amusing to note]] that Timmett is a skilled fighter with a serious burn injury on his face, giving him a superficial similarity to a younger Sandor Clegane, and might well recognize Sansa if he saw her.
to:
Buried in Littlefinger's extremely long explanation of why Harry is the heir to the Vale is that one of the older sisters was carried off by Burned Men, the same tribe Timmett Timett is from. If Timmett Timett father of Timmett Timett was married to that woman, he could technically be the heir to the vale before Harry.
Of course, getting the lords of the vale to accept this would not be easy. Still, if the valewere wre somehow conquered by the mountain tribes, who've been mentioned as growing bolder and stronger several times, Timmett could both have a blood claim and be a powerful leader among the tribes, making him a good way to give the conquest of the Vale a veneer of legitimacy.
It's also [[CrackPairing amusing to note]] thatTimmett Timett is a skilled fighter with a serious burn injury on his face, giving him a superficial similarity to a younger Sandor Clegane, and might well recognize Sansa if he saw her.
Of course, getting the lords of the vale to accept this would not be easy. Still, if the vale
It's also [[CrackPairing amusing to note]] that
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[[WMG: Timmett On-Eye/ son of Timmett will rule the Vale of Arryn]]
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[[WMG: Timmett On-Eye/ Timett One-Eye/ son of Timmett Timett will rule the Vale of Arryn]]
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Changed line(s) 699 (click to see context) from:
Quaithe is a mysterious masked woman and magic practitioner that's supportive to Daenerys for reasons never explained, and wears a mask. Shiera Seastar was a Targaryen bastard rumored to practice sorcery and BloodMagic, who took blood baths to maintain her beauty. We also don't know what happened to her compared to the rest of the Great Bastards, though we know her paramour Brynden Rivers (whom she taught magic to) managed to extend his life beyond its natural limits, and that her own mother was believed to practice the dark arts to maintain her youth. Perhaps they're the same person, and Quaithe is working in tandem/competing with the Three-Eyed Crow. Helping Dany is either part of a bigger scheme, and/or her wanting to restore her family back on the Iron Throne. Admittedly the Three-Eyed Crow mentions her as one of the ghosts of his past in a later book, but maybe either that's related to general grief or Shiera's extreme age caught up with her between books.
to:
Quaithe is a mysterious masked woman and magic practitioner that's supportive to Daenerys for reasons never explained, and wears a mask. Shiera Seastar was a Targaryen bastard rumored to practice sorcery and BloodMagic, who took blood baths to maintain her beauty. We also don't know what happened to her compared to the rest of the Great Bastards, though we know her paramour Brynden Rivers (whom she taught magic to) managed to extend his life beyond its natural limits, and that her own mother was believed to practice the dark arts to maintain her youth. Perhaps they're the same person, and Quaithe is working in tandem/competing with the Three-Eyed Crow. Helping Dany is either part of a bigger scheme, and/or her wanting to restore her family back on the Iron Throne. Admittedly the Three-Eyed Crow mentions her as one of the ghosts of his past in a later book, but maybe either that's related to general grief or Shiera's extreme age caught up with her between books.books.
[[WMG: In the aftermath of Jon Snow's death...]]
Gilly's son ''will'' die, since he is an innocent baby, Jon promised Gilly to protect him, and it's a CrapsackWorld. It just seems like something GRRM would do. It's only after the baby is already killed that [[spoiler:Jon might come back to life, but until then, maybe he'll "get" to see the whole horrible tragedy unfold in front of him from inside Ghost's body.]] The why could be one of two different reasons:
Option 1: The Night's Watch launches a slaughter on free folk immediately after killing Jon to take advantage of the free folk not being prepared for war, since Jon making nice with wildings was one of the things they really weren't big fans of. Normally they might hesitate more to kill a baby, but winter is coming and they don't need an extra wilding mouth to feed. It doesn't help at all that as far as they know, he's the son of Mance Rayder; or if Val and/or Melisandre reveal the truth to try to save him, he's still a product of incest and an "abomination".
Option 2: ''Gilly's son'' is going to be the sacrifice to R'hllor that [[spoiler:Shireen Baratheon was in the show, or at least he'll be who they try first before it doesn't work and they try Shireen next out of desperation]]. My money's on this more given the spoiler, and because it's even more cruelly ironic: Jon swapped the babies to try to save Mance's son, but Gilly's son gets killed instead from the misunderstanding; also Gilly ran off to the Night's Watch to try to save her son from being sacrificed to the Others, but he will instead be sacrificed to the Lord of Light to fight the Others. Even worse, it might be the baby's death that [[spoiler:is the magic that triggers Jon's resurrection, similar to the blood magic Dany unknowingly used to hatch her dragons. Have fun living with ''that'' on your conscience, Jonny!]]
If Option 2, whether Melisandre will be involved is an open question:
* It's implied Melisandre already knows about the swap, but it might still happen anyway: Melisandre might become desperate enough to sacrifice Gilly's son even knowing he's not a king but ''because'' he's innocent: as she says, "The Lord of Light cherishes the innocent. There is no sacrifice more precious." Her motivation may be to try to [[spoiler:resurrect Jon Snow if she realizes Jon is inside Ghost and sees some sign that he is needed to return to life]], or because she is watching Stannis' party in her flames and sees something that makes her feel she has to intervene with one of her miracles to save his campaign.
* It could also be another fanatic like Selyse orders the sacrifice, following Melisandre's teachings and thinking it ''is'' the blood of a king, without Melisandre present to tell them otherwise. Melisandre is off doing Melisandre things and arrives late to the party for a real double-whammy of [[spoiler:"the Night's Watch rebelled and murdered Lord Commander Snow"]] and "my followers have already sacrificed an innocent baby to the flames". To maximize the tragic irony, despite the above point about "the innocent", Melisandre would actually have stopped her followers and spared the baby if she'd been present, to keep Jon as a more willing ally, same as she secretly spared the baby's "father" Mance Rayder for another purpose despite having the blood of a king in her clutches. Either way, she will be blamed for the baby's horrific murder, putting her in good company with other people like Theon Greyjoy and Jaime Lannister as "not quite as evil as they're generally believed to be and didn't do this particular wrong thing, but history won't care".
[[WMG: In the aftermath of Jon Snow's death...]]
Gilly's son ''will'' die, since he is an innocent baby, Jon promised Gilly to protect him, and it's a CrapsackWorld. It just seems like something GRRM would do. It's only after the baby is already killed that [[spoiler:Jon might come back to life, but until then, maybe he'll "get" to see the whole horrible tragedy unfold in front of him from inside Ghost's body.]] The why could be one of two different reasons:
Option 1: The Night's Watch launches a slaughter on free folk immediately after killing Jon to take advantage of the free folk not being prepared for war, since Jon making nice with wildings was one of the things they really weren't big fans of. Normally they might hesitate more to kill a baby, but winter is coming and they don't need an extra wilding mouth to feed. It doesn't help at all that as far as they know, he's the son of Mance Rayder; or if Val and/or Melisandre reveal the truth to try to save him, he's still a product of incest and an "abomination".
Option 2: ''Gilly's son'' is going to be the sacrifice to R'hllor that [[spoiler:Shireen Baratheon was in the show, or at least he'll be who they try first before it doesn't work and they try Shireen next out of desperation]]. My money's on this more given the spoiler, and because it's even more cruelly ironic: Jon swapped the babies to try to save Mance's son, but Gilly's son gets killed instead from the misunderstanding; also Gilly ran off to the Night's Watch to try to save her son from being sacrificed to the Others, but he will instead be sacrificed to the Lord of Light to fight the Others. Even worse, it might be the baby's death that [[spoiler:is the magic that triggers Jon's resurrection, similar to the blood magic Dany unknowingly used to hatch her dragons. Have fun living with ''that'' on your conscience, Jonny!]]
If Option 2, whether Melisandre will be involved is an open question:
* It's implied Melisandre already knows about the swap, but it might still happen anyway: Melisandre might become desperate enough to sacrifice Gilly's son even knowing he's not a king but ''because'' he's innocent: as she says, "The Lord of Light cherishes the innocent. There is no sacrifice more precious." Her motivation may be to try to [[spoiler:resurrect Jon Snow if she realizes Jon is inside Ghost and sees some sign that he is needed to return to life]], or because she is watching Stannis' party in her flames and sees something that makes her feel she has to intervene with one of her miracles to save his campaign.
* It could also be another fanatic like Selyse orders the sacrifice, following Melisandre's teachings and thinking it ''is'' the blood of a king, without Melisandre present to tell them otherwise. Melisandre is off doing Melisandre things and arrives late to the party for a real double-whammy of [[spoiler:"the Night's Watch rebelled and murdered Lord Commander Snow"]] and "my followers have already sacrificed an innocent baby to the flames". To maximize the tragic irony, despite the above point about "the innocent", Melisandre would actually have stopped her followers and spared the baby if she'd been present, to keep Jon as a more willing ally, same as she secretly spared the baby's "father" Mance Rayder for another purpose despite having the blood of a king in her clutches. Either way, she will be blamed for the baby's horrific murder, putting her in good company with other people like Theon Greyjoy and Jaime Lannister as "not quite as evil as they're generally believed to be and didn't do this particular wrong thing, but history won't care".
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After all what worth it is [[spoiler: to become a god and]] to lead you horde into pillagin the world if world will soon just die.
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After all what worth it is [[spoiler: to become a god and]] to lead you horde into pillagin the world if world will soon just die.die.
[[WMG: Quaithe is Shiera Seastar.]]
Quaithe is a mysterious masked woman and magic practitioner that's supportive to Daenerys for reasons never explained, and wears a mask. Shiera Seastar was a Targaryen bastard rumored to practice sorcery and BloodMagic, who took blood baths to maintain her beauty. We also don't know what happened to her compared to the rest of the Great Bastards, though we know her paramour Brynden Rivers (whom she taught magic to) managed to extend his life beyond its natural limits, and that her own mother was believed to practice the dark arts to maintain her youth. Perhaps they're the same person, and Quaithe is working in tandem/competing with the Three-Eyed Crow. Helping Dany is either part of a bigger scheme, and/or her wanting to restore her family back on the Iron Throne. Admittedly the Three-Eyed Crow mentions her as one of the ghosts of his past in a later book, but maybe either that's related to general grief or Shiera's extreme age caught up with her between books.
[[WMG: Quaithe is Shiera Seastar.]]
Quaithe is a mysterious masked woman and magic practitioner that's supportive to Daenerys for reasons never explained, and wears a mask. Shiera Seastar was a Targaryen bastard rumored to practice sorcery and BloodMagic, who took blood baths to maintain her beauty. We also don't know what happened to her compared to the rest of the Great Bastards, though we know her paramour Brynden Rivers (whom she taught magic to) managed to extend his life beyond its natural limits, and that her own mother was believed to practice the dark arts to maintain her youth. Perhaps they're the same person, and Quaithe is working in tandem/competing with the Three-Eyed Crow. Helping Dany is either part of a bigger scheme, and/or her wanting to restore her family back on the Iron Throne. Admittedly the Three-Eyed Crow mentions her as one of the ghosts of his past in a later book, but maybe either that's related to general grief or Shiera's extreme age caught up with her between books.
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Changed line(s) 693 (click to see context) from:
He was a power-hungry asshole, but he loved his children and raised them well. His daughter Myrielle was a pleasant and lovely girl, and his son Titus was knighted for valor before dying.
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He was a power-hungry asshole, but he loved his children and raised them well. His daughter Myrielle was a pleasant and lovely girl, and his son Titus was knighted for valor before dying.dying.
[[WMG: Euron is trying to prevent New Long Night.]]
After all what worth it is [[spoiler: to become a god and]] to lead you horde into pillagin the world if world will soon just die.
[[WMG: Euron is trying to prevent New Long Night.]]
After all what worth it is [[spoiler: to become a god and]] to lead you horde into pillagin the world if world will soon just die.
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[[WMG: Maegor believed Aenys was illegitimate.]]
In-universe it was rumored that King Aenys wasn't fathered by Aegon the Conqueror as some said his mother Rhaenys ReallyGetsAround, and [[LikeFatherUnlikeSon he wasn't that similar to him]]. Maegor was a violent [[TheUsurper usurper]], but maybe he didn't kill his nephew to take the throne ''just'' because DespotismJustifiesTheMeans. Perhaps he thought that Aenys was a bastard and he would've been the rightful heir, but didn't act until he died either out of convenience or [[EvenEvilHasLovedOnes he was fond of Aenys]]. However history is WrittenByTheWinners and Maegor [[TheCaligula was still the Cruel]], so it was easy to make him seem worse by ignoring any legitimate reason he might've had for taking the Iron Throne.
In-universe it was rumored that King Aenys wasn't fathered by Aegon the Conqueror as some said his mother Rhaenys ReallyGetsAround, and [[LikeFatherUnlikeSon he wasn't that similar to him]]. Maegor was a violent [[TheUsurper usurper]], but maybe he didn't kill his nephew to take the throne ''just'' because DespotismJustifiesTheMeans. Perhaps he thought that Aenys was a bastard and he would've been the rightful heir, but didn't act until he died either out of convenience or [[EvenEvilHasLovedOnes he was fond of Aenys]]. However history is WrittenByTheWinners and Maegor [[TheCaligula was still the Cruel]], so it was easy to make him seem worse by ignoring any legitimate reason he might've had for taking the Iron Throne.
to:
In-universe it was rumored that King Aenys wasn't fathered by Aegon the Conqueror as some said his mother Rhaenys ReallyGetsAround, and [[LikeFatherUnlikeSon he wasn't that similar to him]]. Maegor was a violent [[TheUsurper usurper]], but maybe he didn't kill his nephew to take the throne ''just'' because DespotismJustifiesTheMeans. Perhaps he thought that Aenys was a bastard and he would've been the rightful heir, but didn't act until he died either out of convenience or [[EvenEvilHasLovedOnes he was fond of Aenys]]. However history is WrittenByTheWinners and Maegor [[TheCaligula was still the Cruel]], so it was easy to make him seem worse by ignoring any legitimate reason he might've had for taking the Iron
[[WMG:Unwin Peake was actually a good dad.]]
He was a power-hungry asshole, but he loved his children and raised them well. His daughter Myrielle was a pleasant and lovely girl, and his son Titus was knighted for valor before dying.
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Prince Aerion was the second son of King Maekar who was exiled to Essos for his cruelty. He had at least one son, Maegor, but we know nothing about other children Aerion might have had or any descendants of Maegor after he was passed over for his uncle Aegon V. Assuming the family stayed in Essos, it's not hard to imagine how Young Griff could have fallen in with Connington and Golden Company. Young Griff's temper and impatience could also be a clue that he is descended from the psychopathic Aerion and/or Maegor, who was passed over due to fears he would inherit his father's madness. Maegor being passed over for the throne also explains why Connington might try to present Young Griff as a different Targaryen prince, descended from one of the most beloved princes in the realm's history instead of one of the most hated.
to:
Prince Aerion was the second son of King Maekar who was exiled to Essos for his cruelty. He had at least one son, Maegor, but we know nothing about other children Aerion might have had or any descendants of Maegor after he was passed over for his uncle Aegon V. Assuming the family stayed in Essos, it's not hard to imagine how Young Griff could have fallen in with Connington and Golden Company. Young Griff's temper and impatience could also be a clue that he is descended from the psychopathic Aerion and/or Maegor, who was passed over due to fears he would inherit his father's madness. Maegor being passed over for the throne also explains why Connington might try to present Young Griff as a different Targaryen prince, descended from one of the most beloved princes in the realm's history instead of one of the most hated.hated.
[[WMG: Maegor believed Aenys was illegitimate.]]
In-universe it was rumored that King Aenys wasn't fathered by Aegon the Conqueror as some said his mother Rhaenys ReallyGetsAround, and [[LikeFatherUnlikeSon he wasn't that similar to him]]. Maegor was a violent [[TheUsurper usurper]], but maybe he didn't kill his nephew to take the throne ''just'' because DespotismJustifiesTheMeans. Perhaps he thought that Aenys was a bastard and he would've been the rightful heir, but didn't act until he died either out of convenience or [[EvenEvilHasLovedOnes he was fond of Aenys]]. However history is WrittenByTheWinners and Maegor [[TheCaligula was still the Cruel]], so it was easy to make him seem worse by ignoring any legitimate reason he might've had for taking the Iron Throne.
[[WMG: Maegor believed Aenys was illegitimate.]]
In-universe it was rumored that King Aenys wasn't fathered by Aegon the Conqueror as some said his mother Rhaenys ReallyGetsAround, and [[LikeFatherUnlikeSon he wasn't that similar to him]]. Maegor was a violent [[TheUsurper usurper]], but maybe he didn't kill his nephew to take the throne ''just'' because DespotismJustifiesTheMeans. Perhaps he thought that Aenys was a bastard and he would've been the rightful heir, but didn't act until he died either out of convenience or [[EvenEvilHasLovedOnes he was fond of Aenys]]. However history is WrittenByTheWinners and Maegor [[TheCaligula was still the Cruel]], so it was easy to make him seem worse by ignoring any legitimate reason he might've had for taking the Iron Throne.
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He is dead, and one of the Faceless Men is mentioned to be wearing a fat and bearded face...
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He is dead, and one of the Faceless Men is mentioned to be wearing a fat and bearded face...face...
[[WMG:Young Griff is a descendant of Aerion Brightflame]]
Prince Aerion was the second son of King Maekar who was exiled to Essos for his cruelty. He had at least one son, Maegor, but we know nothing about other children Aerion might have had or any descendants of Maegor after he was passed over for his uncle Aegon V. Assuming the family stayed in Essos, it's not hard to imagine how Young Griff could have fallen in with Connington and Golden Company. Young Griff's temper and impatience could also be a clue that he is descended from the psychopathic Aerion and/or Maegor, who was passed over due to fears he would inherit his father's madness. Maegor being passed over for the throne also explains why Connington might try to present Young Griff as a different Targaryen prince, descended from one of the most beloved princes in the realm's history instead of one of the most hated.
[[WMG:Young Griff is a descendant of Aerion Brightflame]]
Prince Aerion was the second son of King Maekar who was exiled to Essos for his cruelty. He had at least one son, Maegor, but we know nothing about other children Aerion might have had or any descendants of Maegor after he was passed over for his uncle Aegon V. Assuming the family stayed in Essos, it's not hard to imagine how Young Griff could have fallen in with Connington and Golden Company. Young Griff's temper and impatience could also be a clue that he is descended from the psychopathic Aerion and/or Maegor, who was passed over due to fears he would inherit his father's madness. Maegor being passed over for the throne also explains why Connington might try to present Young Griff as a different Targaryen prince, descended from one of the most beloved princes in the realm's history instead of one of the most hated.
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[[WMG: Aegon the Unworthy did at least think Daeron wasn't his son.]]
While a ''massive'' petty asshole and biased person, it'd be too easy for [[WrittenByTheWinners post-Blackfyre Rebellion sources]] to claim he or pro-Blackfyre supporters just made up an idea of an affair to disinherit Daeron. And even then, most historical sources suggest Aemon and Naerys were in love, even if they never acted on it. Because they hated him and he hated them, Aegon convinced himself that they had an affair and Daeron was illegitimate. Given his immense ego it'd be in-character for him to [[BelievingTheirOwnLies believe his own lies and biases]] just like Henry VIII ([[NoHistoricalCharactersWereHarmed who he's partially inspired by]]) did. It'd also give ''slightly'' more justification for legitimizing his bastards if he was convinced his heir wasn't actually his son. [[LikeFatherUnlikeSon Their radically different personalities]] would only serve as proof in his mind he's right.
[[JerkWithAHeartOfJerk He'd still be a massive hypocrite of course, but that's the best you can hope for with the Unworthy]].
While a ''massive'' petty asshole and biased person, it'd be too easy for [[WrittenByTheWinners post-Blackfyre Rebellion sources]] to claim he or pro-Blackfyre supporters just made up an idea of an affair to disinherit Daeron. And even then, most historical sources suggest Aemon and Naerys were in love, even if they never acted on it. Because they hated him and he hated them, Aegon convinced himself that they had an affair and Daeron was illegitimate. Given his immense ego it'd be in-character for him to [[BelievingTheirOwnLies believe his own lies and biases]] just like Henry VIII ([[NoHistoricalCharactersWereHarmed who he's partially inspired by]]) did. It'd also give ''slightly'' more justification for legitimizing his bastards if he was convinced his heir wasn't actually his son. [[LikeFatherUnlikeSon Their radically different personalities]] would only serve as proof in his mind he's right.
[[JerkWithAHeartOfJerk He'd still be a massive hypocrite of course, but that's the best you can hope for with the Unworthy]].
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* And the story of the last hero is told to Bran by Old Nan after he falls, has dreams of the crow and heart of winter, and wakes up and names Summer, and Bran and Summer meet Coldhands on their way north to the three-eyed crow.
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Changed line(s) 662 (click to see context) from:
* Two of her family members, a young boy named Grazhar and a young girl named Qezza, are Daenerys' cupbearers/hostages. She had a hand in that happening, knowing it would put Daenerys in a MortonsFork situation. If Daenerys kills them, it will make her look even more like the tyrant many think she is. If Daenerys doesn't kill them, she has no leverage over the Meereenese noble families who oppose her reign. Of course, this makes Galazza look even worse as she is putting her young relatives in danger of being executed as part of a political plot.
to:
* Two of her family members, a young boy named Grazhar and a young girl named Qezza, are Daenerys' cupbearers/hostages. She had a hand in that happening, knowing it would put Daenerys in a MortonsFork situation. If Daenerys kills them, it will make her look even more like the tyrant many think she is. If Daenerys doesn't kill them, she has no leverage over the Meereenese noble families who oppose her reign. Of course, if this theory is true, then it makes Galazza look even worse as she is putting her young relatives in danger of being executed as part of a political plot.
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Changed line(s) 662 (click to see context) from:
* Two of her family members, a young boy named Grazhar and a young girl named Qezza, are Daenerys' cupbearers/hostages. She had a hand in that happening, knowing it would put Daenerys in a MortonsFork situation. If Daenerys kills them, it will make her look even more like the tyrant many think she is. If Daenerys doesn't kill them, she has no leverage over the Meereenese noble families who oppose her reign.
to:
* Two of her family members, a young boy named Grazhar and a young girl named Qezza, are Daenerys' cupbearers/hostages. She had a hand in that happening, knowing it would put Daenerys in a MortonsFork situation. If Daenerys kills them, it will make her look even more like the tyrant many think she is. If Daenerys doesn't kill them, she has no leverage over the Meereenese noble families who oppose her reign. Of course, this makes Galazza look even worse as she is putting her young relatives in danger of being executed as part of a political plot.
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Changed line(s) 678 (click to see context) from:
One of the Faceless Men is mentioned to be wearing a fat and bearded face...
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Changed line(s) 675,676 (click to see context) from:
When the brothel that she and her mother lived in fell on hard times, the proprietor started charging high prices to particularly depraved customers to have their way with the prostitutes' children. Obara grew to hate her mother for not being able to protect her from those men. This is why she hates the town so much and why she was so eager to leave her mother, who she had known all her life, to go live with a father she had never met. When she held the spear, it was the first time she had ever felt strong.
to:
When the brothel that she and her mother lived in fell on hard times, the proprietor started charging high prices to particularly depraved customers to have their way alone time with the prostitutes' children. Obara grew to hate her mother for not being able to protect her from those men. This is why she hates the town so much and why she was so eager to leave her mother, who she had known all her life, to go live with a father she had never met. When she held the spear, it was the first time she had ever felt strong.
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[[WMG: Cersei suffers from gender dysphoria, but the culture she lives in doesn't have that concept.]]
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[[WMG: Obara was pimped out as a young girl in Oldtown.]]
When the brothel that she and her mother lived in fell on hard times, the proprietor started charging high prices to particularly depraved customers to have their way with the prostitutes' children. Obara grew to hate her mother for not being able to protect her from those men. This is why she hates the town so much and why she was so eager to leave her mother, who she had known all her life, to go live with a father she had never met. When she held the spear, it was the first time she had ever felt strong.
When the brothel that she and her mother lived in fell on hard times, the proprietor started charging high prices to particularly depraved customers to have their way with the prostitutes' children. Obara grew to hate her mother for not being able to protect her from those men. This is why she hates the town so much and why she was so eager to leave her mother, who she had known all her life, to go live with a father she had never met. When she held the spear, it was the first time she had ever felt strong.
to:
When the brothel that she and her mother lived in fell on hard times, the proprietor started charging high prices to particularly depraved customers to have their way with the prostitutes' children. Obara grew to hate her mother for not being able to protect her from those men. This is why she hates the town so much and why she was so eager to leave her mother, who she had known all her life, to go live with a father she had never met. When she held the spear, it was the first time she had ever felt
[[WMG:The House of Black and White owns the face of the ugly little girl's father as well as hers.]]
One of the Faceless Men is mentioned to be wearing a fat and bearded face...
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Changed line(s) 675 (click to see context) from:
When the brothel that she and her mother lived in fell on hard times, the proprietor started charging high prices to particularly depraved customers to have their way with the prostitutes' children. This is why she hates the town so much and why she was so eager to leave her mother, who she had known all her life, to go live with a father she had never met. When she held the spear, it was the first time she had ever felt strong.
to:
When the brothel that she and her mother lived in fell on hard times, the proprietor started charging high prices to particularly depraved customers to have their way with the prostitutes' children. Obara grew to hate her mother for not being able to protect her from those men. This is why she hates the town so much and why she was so eager to leave her mother, who she had known all her life, to go live with a father she had never met. When she held the spear, it was the first time she had ever felt strong.
