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* Averted in ''VideoGame/DhuxsScar''. The main characters are a [[{{Mercenaries}} mercenary]], a traveling merchant, and a, [[ReallySevenHundredYearsOld supposedly]], teenage girl. These characters are *exactly* as strong as they should be according to their backgrounds. The mercenary with his high stats, and special abilities (including the only healing spell in the game) pretty much wins every battle single handedly. The merchant has 1/3 the mercenaries maximum health, does 1/4 the damage with regular attacks and doesn't have any special attacks to spend his MP on. Though he has some great abilities to help get cheaper or special items from merchants and can do comparable damage to the mercenary by throwing amulets only he can use, but the cost of purchasing all those amulets add up so rapidly that [[AwesomeButImpractical it's cheaper to let the mercenary deal with everything and put the savings towards healing items]]. Meanwhile the girl is every bit as worthless as one would expect from an inexperienced girl ([[SuperpoweredEvilSide usually]]), Her damage is so pathetic that if not overleveled many enemies will NoSell her attacks, she has the lowest health and defense and spends every single encounter [[DefendCommand defending]] and nothing else; to the point that having her in the party starts to feels like a game long EscortMission.

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* Averted in ''VideoGame/DhuxsScar''. The main characters are a [[{{Mercenaries}} [[PrivateMilitaryContractors mercenary]], a traveling merchant, and a, [[ReallySevenHundredYearsOld supposedly]], teenage girl. These characters are *exactly* as strong as they should be according to their backgrounds. The mercenary with his high stats, and special abilities (including the only healing spell in the game) pretty much wins every battle single handedly. The merchant has 1/3 the mercenaries maximum health, does 1/4 the damage with regular attacks and doesn't have any special attacks to spend his MP on. Though he has some great abilities to help get cheaper or special items from merchants and can do comparable damage to the mercenary by throwing amulets only he can use, but the cost of purchasing all those amulets add up so rapidly that [[AwesomeButImpractical it's cheaper to let the mercenary deal with everything and put the savings towards healing items]]. Meanwhile the girl is every bit as worthless as one would expect from an inexperienced girl ([[SuperpoweredEvilSide usually]]), Her damage is so pathetic that if not overleveled many enemies will NoSell her attacks, she has the lowest health and defense and spends every single encounter [[DefendCommand defending]] and nothing else; to the point that having her in the party starts to feels like a game long EscortMission.



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* In ''VideoGame/FireEmblemTheBindingBlade'', you can use [[BigBad Zephiel]]'s half-sister Guinivere in challenge maps as a bonus [[BraggingRightsReward after beating the game enough times.]] In the actual story, Guinivere is a NeutralFemale who doesn't do much in the plot aside from provide exposition and become Queen of Bern in the epilogue. As a playable character, she's a Level 20 Sage with good stats in everything [[GlassCannon but HP]], plus high weapon ranks in Anima, Staves, ''and'' Light magic, something that no other Sage has. It's hard to imagine why she wouldn't help you out if she'd had those stats in the story. To a lesser extent, Eliwood when playable has incredible stats despite the fact that he spends the whole game with PlotInducedIllness.


** Perhaps [[spoiler: being a crystal for a millennium]] harms one's strength, or even resets it back to baseline?

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** Perhaps [[spoiler: being a crystal for a millennium]] harms one's strength, or even resets it back to baseline?baseline? Or when a person becomes a l'cie, the transformation enhances whatever skills you have to make you as powerful a warrior as possible. And since Hope had no real physical prowess it all went into magic.


** 8 months. She was only with the circus for 8 months. (Quayle was busying travelling with YOU 6 months prior and only happened to wander in and the join the circus around the same time Aerie was captured, eventually taking it over after they pissed him off). Sarevok is as high as the maximum level of a fighter in pre-[=ToB=] ''[=BG2=]'' in ''[=BG1=]'', Aerie, by contrast, is only about as strong as a player C/M would've been at maximum level for ''[=BG1=]''.[[spoiler: He's so high in level that he only gains 1 level compared to ''[=BG1=]'' when joining the party in ToB and will still dwarf nearly any other party member you have in raw combat power.]]

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** 8 months. She was only with the circus for 8 months. (Quayle was busying travelling with YOU 6 months prior and only happened to wander in and the join the circus around the same time Aerie was captured, eventually taking it over after they pissed him off). Sarevok is as high as the maximum level of a fighter in pre-[=ToB=] ''[=BG2=]'' in ''[=BG1=]'', Aerie, by contrast, is only about as strong as a player C/M would've been at maximum level for ''[=BG1=]''.[[spoiler: He's so high in level that he only gains 1 level compared to ''[=BG1=]'' when joining the party in ToB [=ToB=] and will still dwarf nearly any other party member you have in raw combat power.]]


** 8 months. She was only with the circus for 8 months. (Quayle was busying travelling with YOU 6 months prior and only happened to wander in and the join the circus around the same time Aerie was captured, eventually taking it over after they pissed him off). Sarevok is as high as the maximum level of a fighter in pre-ToB BG2 in BG1, Aerie by contrast is only about as strong as a player C/M would've been at maximum level for BG1.[[spoiler: He's so high in level that he only gains 1 level compared to BG1 when joining the party in ToB and will still dwarf nearly any other party member you have in raw combat power.]]

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** 8 months. She was only with the circus for 8 months. (Quayle was busying travelling with YOU 6 months prior and only happened to wander in and the join the circus around the same time Aerie was captured, eventually taking it over after they pissed him off). Sarevok is as high as the maximum level of a fighter in pre-ToB BG2 pre-[=ToB=] ''[=BG2=]'' in BG1, Aerie ''[=BG1=]'', Aerie, by contrast contrast, is only about as strong as a player C/M would've been at maximum level for BG1.''[=BG1=]''.[[spoiler: He's so high in level that he only gains 1 level compared to BG1 ''[=BG1=]'' when joining the party in ToB and will still dwarf nearly any other party member you have in raw combat power.]]



* Odie in ''VideoGame/SoulNomadAndTheWorldEaters'' is largely treated as a walking joke by his friends, his enemies and even his family, and his moments of plot-sanctioned badassery are treated as exceptional (and, in one case, revealed to be assisted by someone else who does the major part). In-game, he's fully functional, has stats well over the average, and is a decent challenge if you haven't been grinding or done a NewGamePlus. [[spoiler:He's also a a very good addition to your own forces when he joins]].

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* Odie in ''VideoGame/SoulNomadAndTheWorldEaters'' is largely treated as a walking joke by his friends, his enemies and even his family, and his moments of plot-sanctioned badassery are treated as exceptional (and, in one case, revealed to be assisted by someone else who does the major part). In-game, he's fully functional, has stats well over the average, and is a decent challenge if you haven't been grinding or done a NewGamePlus. [[spoiler:He's also a a very good addition to your own forces when he joins]].

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* It's a wonder [[BigBad Eggman]] successfully kidnapped [[BadassAdorable Cream]] in ''VideoGame/SonicAdvance2'': with the ridiculous range of her Chao Cheese, she can [[CurbStompBattle curb-stomp]] any boss (barring the extra boss, since only Super Sonic can fight it) without breaking a sweat and all the while remaining out of the boss's attack range.


* Odie in ''SoulNomadAndTheWorldEaters'' is largely treated as a walking joke by his friends, his enemies and even his family, and his moments of plot-sanctioned badassery are treated as exceptional (and, in one case, revealed to be assisted by someone else who does the major part). In-game, he's fully functional, has stats well over the average, and is a decent challenge if you haven't been grinding or done a NewGamePlus. [[spoiler:He's also a a very good addition to your own forces when he joins]].

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* Odie in ''SoulNomadAndTheWorldEaters'' ''VideoGame/SoulNomadAndTheWorldEaters'' is largely treated as a walking joke by his friends, his enemies and even his family, and his moments of plot-sanctioned badassery are treated as exceptional (and, in one case, revealed to be assisted by someone else who does the major part). In-game, he's fully functional, has stats well over the average, and is a decent challenge if you haven't been grinding or done a NewGamePlus. [[spoiler:He's also a a very good addition to your own forces when he joins]].


* This is very subtle in ''VideoGame/BetrayalAtKrondor'', but Owyn is a lot stronger then he probably should be at the start of the game. For starters his spellcasting stat is quite high at the start of the game, he is limited only in lack of offensive spells (though Despair Thy Eyes is surprisingly effective). However, his melee defense is what really stands out. He is traveling with two warriors who are both legendary fighters in their homes, yet Owyn' defense stats are almost as high as theirs, and not far below their melee stats. That means that Owyn would be able to parry more then half the attacks from some of the best warriors of their homeland mechanically. That's still pretty good from someone who has never even been trained in use of a staff as a weapon.



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* Owyn from ''VideoGame/BetrayalAtKrondor'' is a milder example of this. While Owyn's fighting-related stats are lower then his allies at the start of the game they are surprisingly close considering he has no combat training at all and is teamed up with two [[OverratedAndUnderleveled supposedly]] master, even near legendary, swordsman.
** StatisticallySpeaking Owyn's defense rating gives him a slightly lower then 50% chance of blocking attacks from either of his allies at the beginning of the game. That means expert swordsman struggle to even touch the untrained kid with a stick.


** The main characters battle an entire empire and win; they even have the empire soldiers comment on how powerful they are [[spoiler:while negotiating peace terms]]. Not long after this the main characters meet [[BadassGrandpa Strago]] and [[ChildMage Relm]]. Strago at least is justified as being pretty badass in his youth, but Relm is an 8 year old painter who somehow manages to make a strong party member. This is partially justified for both of them, as they are both mage characters whose gift with magic is justified by their [[spoiler:being descendents of warriors infused with magical power during the war of the magi]]. This, however, doesn't explain why Relm manages to be only a little weaker with her morning star than someone who was one of the world's top generals before she started to LevelGrind (Celes being a MagicKnight character herself).

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** The main characters battle an entire empire and win; they even have the empire soldiers comment on how powerful they are [[spoiler:while negotiating peace terms]]. Not long after this the main characters meet [[BadassGrandpa Strago]] Strago and [[ChildMage Relm]]. Strago at least is justified as being pretty badass in his youth, but Relm is an 8 year old painter who somehow manages to make a strong party member. This is partially justified for both of them, as they are both mage characters whose gift with magic is justified by their [[spoiler:being descendents of warriors infused with magical power during the war of the magi]]. This, however, doesn't explain why Relm manages to be only a little weaker with her morning star than someone who was one of the world's top generals before she started to LevelGrind (Celes being a MagicKnight character herself).


** As far as later characters go, Yukiko ''is'' a weak physical combatant, Rise doesn't fight at all, Kanji was already a big bruiser, Naoto has firearms training, and Teddie [[spoiler:is a Shadow himself]]. As far as their Personas? [[{{Handwave}} Maybe stronger Shadows make for stronger Personas?]]

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** As far as later characters go, Yukiko ''is'' a weak physical combatant, Rise doesn't fight at all, Kanji was already a big bruiser, Naoto has firearms training, and Teddie [[spoiler:is a Shadow himself]]. As far as their Personas? [[{{Handwave}} [[HandWave Maybe stronger Shadows make for stronger Personas?]]


** While not as severe a case as the two listed above, Setzer may also aply. Setzer is a ....gambler. That's all he is, he gambles a lot and is good with airships. He joins the party right as the main characters are about to attack a major facility in the Empire's capital city, and proves competent with a sword (or [[DeathDealer throwing cards]]).

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** While not as severe a case as the two listed above, Setzer may also aply.apply. Setzer is a ....gambler. That's all he is, he gambles a lot and is good with airships. He joins the party right as the main characters are about to attack a major facility in the Empire's capital city, and proves competent with a sword (or [[DeathDealer throwing cards]]).



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* Shandra Jerro in ''VideoGame/NeverwinterNights2'' was basically a farmer prior to her involvement in the plot and being taken on as a squire. She was kidnapped without ceremony by githyanki and had trouble driving lizardfolk off her property. Then she joins as a retainer, and she's the same level as everyone else - likely 11 out of 20, fresh off wiping out the githyanki and powerful enough to take down the entire tribe of lizards completely solo. She's mentioned as having gone through some degree of training since then, but it's anyone's guess as to what this training was, as it's enough to put her above Casavir (an experienced paladin who was personally holding back a massive orc horde).


* This is very subtle in VideoGame/BetrayalAtKrondor, but Owyn is a lot stronger then he probably should be at the start of the game. For starters his spellcasting stat is quite high at the start of the game, he is limited only in lack of offensive spells (though Despair Thy Eyes is surprisingly effective). However, his melee defense is what really stands out. He is traveling with two warriors who are both legendary fighters in their homes, yet Owyn' defense stats are almost as high as theirs, and not far below their melee stats. That means that Owyn would be able to parry more then half the attacks from some of the best warriors of their homeland mechanically. That's still pretty good from someone who has never even been trained in use of a staff as a weapon.

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* This is very subtle in VideoGame/BetrayalAtKrondor, ''VideoGame/BetrayalAtKrondor'', but Owyn is a lot stronger then he probably should be at the start of the game. For starters his spellcasting stat is quite high at the start of the game, he is limited only in lack of offensive spells (though Despair Thy Eyes is surprisingly effective). However, his melee defense is what really stands out. He is traveling with two warriors who are both legendary fighters in their homes, yet Owyn' defense stats are almost as high as theirs, and not far below their melee stats. That means that Owyn would be able to parry more then half the attacks from some of the best warriors of their homeland mechanically. That's still pretty good from someone who has never even been trained in use of a staff as a weapon.


* Almost all party members in ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'' counts (except [[TheHero MC]], [[TheLancer Yosuke]], and [[KickChick Chie]] since they are your starting members and join at low levels). All of them join right after getting their [[SummonMagic Personas]] and resting for about a month with obviously no experience in using their Personas. All of them join with the appropriate levels and skills for the stage of the game they're in.

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* ''VideoGame/Persona3'' runs into this trope in the second half of the game. Yukari and Junpei have no relevant experience and join at level 1, Akihiko has two years of experience along with being a champion boxer and joins at level 9, Mitsuru has ten years of experience along with fencing training and joins at level 18, and Aigis is a dedicated war-machine who joins at level 25. All well and good, but then an eleven year old with two years of Persona possession, no combat experience, and some informal training joins with a level in the 30s, as does a ''dog'' who only just got his Persona and has no experience whatsoever, while the final party member, who has some experience but has been trying to kill his Persona for the last two years, joins in the early 40s.
* Almost all party members in ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'' counts ''VideoGame/Persona4'' count (except [[TheHero MC]], [[TheLancer Yosuke]], and [[KickChick Chie]] since they are your starting members and join at low levels). All of them join right after getting their [[SummonMagic Personas]] and resting for about a month with obviously no experience in using their Personas. All of them join with the appropriate levels and skills for the stage of the game they're in.



** Its predecessor is somewhat better but still runs into issues later in the game. Yukari and Junpei have no relevant experience and join at level 1, Akihiko has two years of experience along with being a champion boxer and joins at level 9, Mitsuru has ten years of experience along with fencing training and joins at level 18, and Aigis is a dedicated war-machine who joins at level 25. All well and good, but then an eleven year old with two years of Persona possession, no combat experience, and some informal training joins with a level in the 30s, as does a ''dog'' who only just got his Persona and has no experience whatsoever, while the final party member, who has some experience but has been trying to kill his Persona for the last two years, joins in the early 40s.
* In ''VideoGame/{{Persona 5}}'', PlayerCharacter Joker is at the same level of power as Morgana/Mona at the game's beginning. This is in spite of Morgana supposedly being a much more experienced PhantomThief [[spoiler:and who was also created by the game's BigGood to guide the Phantom Thieves into saving the world]]. Also, when Haru joins the Phantom Thieves after a full awakening of her Persona in the fifth Palace, she's just as strong as everyone else, despite being [[{{Ojou}} a young woman of high-ranking social status and wealth]].
* About 1/3 of the characters in ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' qualify, as while as a huge number of {{Non Player Character}}s, including most of those who get their comps later in the game. In game it's shown that in order to use a comp a character must first defeat deamons summoned by the Comp. The heros are able to defeat the demons summoned at Day one, though even then Yuzu struggles with hers. However, the demons grow stronger each day, and it's seen later on that the demons summoned by Misaki are equal to the strength of demons faught during that day. So one has to wonder how any of the people that get their Comps later on are able to defeat the demons that were summoned when they turn them on, assuming they would all be close to the main characters power at day one and the demons would be massively stronger then that. Yet somehow citizens all over the city are getting comps and somehow defeating the demons they summon in order to use them.
** In terms of player Characters Haru and Gin are the worst offenders, not getting the ability to summon demons until practically the last day and yet starting out with stats rivaling the main three (who are repeatedly called powerful even by other summoner standards). They lack any weapons or special justification for starting out so strong either.

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** Its predecessor is somewhat better but still runs into issues later in the game. Yukari and Junpei have no relevant experience and join at level 1, Akihiko has two years of experience along with being a champion boxer and joins at level 9, Mitsuru has ten years of experience along with fencing training and joins at level 18, and Aigis is a dedicated war-machine who joins at level 25. All well and good, but then an eleven year old with two years of Persona possession, no combat experience, and some informal training joins with a level in the 30s, as does a ''dog'' who only just got his Persona and has no experience whatsoever, while the final party member, who has some experience but has been trying to kill his Persona for the last two years, joins in the early 40s.
* In ''VideoGame/{{Persona 5}}'', ''VideoGame/Persona5'', PlayerCharacter Joker is at the same level of power as Morgana/Mona at the game's beginning. This is in spite of Morgana supposedly being a much more experienced PhantomThief [[spoiler:and who was also created by the game's BigGood to guide the Phantom Thieves into saving the world]]. Also, when Haru joins the Phantom Thieves after a full awakening of her Persona in the fifth Palace, she's just as strong as everyone else, despite being [[{{Ojou}} a young woman of high-ranking social status and wealth]].
wealth]]. The only exception is [[spoiler:Goro Akechi, who has actually been a Persona user for about two years longer than any of you, starts off with the highest join level of the party, and is indicated to actually be ''holding back'' for the entirety of his tenure in your party]].
* About 1/3 of the characters in ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' qualify, as while as a huge number of {{Non Player Character}}s, including most of those who get their comps [=COMPs=] later in the game. In game it's shown that in order to use a comp COMP a character must first defeat deamons demons summoned by the Comp. COMP. The heros heroes are able to defeat the demons summoned at Day on day one, though although even then Yuzu struggles with hers. However, the demons grow stronger each day, and it's seen later on that the demons summoned by Misaki Izuna are equal to the strength of demons faught fought during that day. So one has to wonder how any of the people that get their Comps [=COMPs=] later on are able to defeat the demons that were summoned when they turn them on, assuming they would all be close to the main characters power at day one and the demons would be massively stronger then that. Yet somehow citizens all over the city are getting comps and somehow defeating the demons they summon in order to use them.
** In terms of player Characters Haru and Gin are the worst offenders, not getting the ability to summon demons until practically the last day and yet starting out with stats rivaling the main three (who are repeatedly called powerful even by other summoner standards). They lack any weapons or special justification for starting out so strong either.
them.

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