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[[Administrivia/TropesAreFlexible This can also apply to other music genres]] in the battle between authenticity and artifice. It can be a clash between Rock and {{Disco}} much like in TheSeventies (with Rock winning and Disco [[DeaderThanDisco losing and being a pariah]] for [[TheEighties a good part of a decade]]), HipHop versus RhythmAndBlues, PunkRock versus GlamMetal, PunkRock versus ProgressiveRock, PunkRock versus NewWaveMusic, PunkRock versus [[RunningGag any other non-punk music genre]], PostPunk versus NewWaveMusic, GangstaRap versus GlamRap, ThrashMetal versus HairMetal, AlternativeRock versus HairMetal, Indie versus Pop music, or the clash between "real" instruments versus ElectronicMusic.

to:

[[Administrivia/TropesAreFlexible This can also apply to other music genres]] in the battle between authenticity and artifice. It can be a clash between Rock and {{Disco}} much like in TheSeventies (with Rock winning and Disco [[DeaderThanDisco [[DiscoSucks losing and being a pariah]] for [[TheEighties a good part of a decade]]), HipHop versus RhythmAndBlues, PunkRock versus GlamMetal, PunkRock versus ProgressiveRock, PunkRock versus NewWaveMusic, PunkRock versus [[RunningGag any other non-punk music genre]], PostPunk versus NewWaveMusic, GangstaRap versus GlamRap, ThrashMetal versus HairMetal, AlternativeRock versus HairMetal, Indie versus Pop music, or the clash between "real" instruments versus ElectronicMusic.



* Music/TalkingHeads were cast in this rivalry against disco by fans and the music press due to the line in their song, "Life During Wartime", "This ain't no disco," being taken as an anti-disco song at [[DeaderThanDisco the height of the backlash against the genre]]. The band members were actually fans of disco and RAndB music, which would become obvious on albums like ''Music/RemainInLight'' and ''Music/SpeakingInTongues''.

to:

* Music/TalkingHeads were cast in this rivalry against disco by fans and the music press due to the line in their song, "Life During Wartime", "This ain't no disco," being taken as an anti-disco song at [[DeaderThanDisco [[DiscoSucks the height of the backlash against the genre]]. The band members were actually fans of disco and RAndB music, which would become obvious on albums like ''Music/RemainInLight'' and ''Music/SpeakingInTongues''.


A BoyBand, a GirlGroup or IdolSinger is usually involved on the Pop side. MusicIsPolitics is heavily involved in this trope as well.

to:

A BoyBand, a GirlGroup or IdolSinger is usually involved on the Pop side. MusicIsPolitics is heavily involved in this trope as well.
well. The "rock" side will typically be DarkerAndEdgier, while pop music is often LighterAndSofter.


This trope has been around since TheFifties, and started to take off as rock and pop diverged in TheSixties. In the early years of UsefulNotes/TheBritishInvasion, Music/TheRollingStones and Music/TheBeatles were cast in such a rivalry, before the Fab Four began to radically experiment with their music. The mentality peaked in TheNineties after TeenPop made a comeback in the middle of the decade and after {{Grunge}}'s appeal started to die off. In short, this is known as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockism_and_poptimism Rockism]], the belief that rock music is more authentic/artistic than other popular music. It wasn't until the TurnOfTheMillennium that Rockism would receive its own backlash in the form of Poptimism, the idea of treating pop music and pop stars as serious and deserving of the same respect as other forms of music. However, this eventually resulted in poptimism succumbing to similar flaws as rockism, with critics of poptimism describing it as [[QualityByPopularVote placing unnecessary emphasis on commercial success over artistic value]] and--[[NotSoDifferent like rockism]]--being [[PopCultureIsolation unfairly generalizing and ignorant of genres other than pop]]. Critics of poptimism also note that pop has far more rigid qualifications than rock (namely the inclusion of a "verse-chorus" structure), which results in cases where artists like Music/MilesDavis could technically count as rock, to the point of being inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame, but can never conceivably be regarded as pop. As rock music went out of mainstream in TheNewTens, HipHop and other genres such as indie, electronic music, and even foreign music such as Latin and K-pop, tried to fill in the gap on the side of authenticity against pop music with varying results. Some even thought that hip-hop replaced rock music as a competitor to pop, and a similar form of "hip-hoptimism" started to emerge in public discourse as well, again eventually falling victim to the same flaws as its rock and pop counterparts (not helped by the ways in which Web 2.0 have affected the nature of online discussion).

Rock Versus Pop is the most prominent way this trope is presented, but the core of the trope is pitting music seen as more organic and from-the-artistic-heart against manufactured by-the-numbers music made to entertain the biggest audience possible. The older variant would be the battle between ClassicalMusic & traditional pop and {{Jazz}}, where classicists viewed their music as bombastic and passionate if one finds the right sheets and jazz as lowbrow entertainment at best and is so-called "[[TheNewRockAndRoll devil's music]]" at worst, while jazz aficionados find jazz as an open season for improvisation and viewed traditional pop and classical music as [[ClassicalMusicIsBoring stuffy]]. This lingered on until the advent of RockAndRoll.

to:

This trope has been around since TheFifties, when the conservative white populace shunned out rock as edgy and degrading to society, and started to take off as rock and pop diverged in TheSixties. In the early years of UsefulNotes/TheBritishInvasion, Music/TheRollingStones and Music/TheBeatles were cast in such a rivalry, before the Fab Four began to radically experiment with their music. The mentality peaked in TheNineties after TeenPop made a comeback in the middle of the decade and after {{Grunge}}'s appeal started to die off. In short, this is known as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockism_and_poptimism Rockism]], the belief that rock music is more authentic/artistic than other popular music. It wasn't until the TurnOfTheMillennium that Rockism would receive its own backlash in the form of Poptimism, the idea of treating pop music and pop stars as serious and deserving of the same respect as other forms of music. However, this eventually resulted in poptimism succumbing to similar flaws as rockism, with critics of poptimism describing it as [[QualityByPopularVote placing unnecessary emphasis on commercial success over artistic value]] and--[[NotSoDifferent like rockism]]--being [[PopCultureIsolation unfairly generalizing and ignorant of genres other than pop]]. Critics of poptimism also note that pop has far more rigid qualifications than rock (namely the inclusion of a "verse-chorus" structure), which results in cases where artists like Music/MilesDavis could technically count as rock, to the point of being inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame, but can never conceivably be regarded as pop. As rock music went out of mainstream in TheNewTens, HipHop and other genres such as indie, electronic music, and even foreign music such as Latin and K-pop, tried to fill in the gap on the side of authenticity against pop music with varying results. Some even thought that hip-hop replaced rock music as a competitor to pop, and a similar form of "hip-hoptimism" started to emerge in public discourse as well, again eventually falling victim to the same flaws as its rock and pop counterparts (not helped by the ways in which Web 2.0 have affected the nature of online discussion).

Rock Versus Pop is the most prominent way this trope is presented, but the core of the trope is pitting music seen as more organic and from-the-artistic-heart against manufactured by-the-numbers music made to entertain the biggest audience possible.
The older variant of this trope would be the battle between ClassicalMusic & traditional pop and {{Jazz}}, where classicists viewed their music as bombastic and passionate if one finds the right sheets and jazz as lowbrow entertainment at best and is so-called "[[TheNewRockAndRoll devil's music]]" at worst, while jazz aficionados find jazz as an open season for improvisation and viewed traditional pop and classical music as [[ClassicalMusicIsBoring stuffy]]. This lingered on until the advent of RockAndRoll.
RockAndRoll, when most of the population had just fully accepted jazz.


Added DiffLines:

The mentality peaked in TheNineties after TeenPop made a comeback in the middle of the decade and after {{Grunge}}'s appeal started to die off. In short, this is known as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockism_and_poptimism Rockism]], the belief that rock music is more authentic/artistic than other popular music. It wasn't until the TurnOfTheMillennium that Rockism would receive its own backlash in the form of Poptimism, the idea of treating pop music and pop stars as serious and deserving of the same respect as other forms of music. However, this eventually resulted in poptimism succumbing to similar flaws as rockism, with critics of poptimism describing it as [[QualityByPopularVote placing unnecessary emphasis on commercial success over artistic value]] and--[[NotSoDifferent like rockism]]--being [[PopCultureIsolation unfairly generalizing and ignorant of genres other than pop]]. Critics of poptimism also note that pop has far more rigid qualifications than rock (namely the inclusion of a "verse-chorus" structure), which results in cases where artists like Music/MilesDavis could technically count as rock, to the point of being inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame, but can never conceivably be regarded as pop.

As rock music went out of mainstream in TheNewTens, HipHop and other genres such as indie, electronic music, and even foreign music such as Latin and K-pop, tried to fill in the gap on the side of authenticity against pop music with varying results. Some even thought that hip-hop replaced rock music as a competitor to pop, and a similar form of "hip-hoptimism" started to emerge in public discourse as well, again eventually falling victim to the same flaws as its rock and pop counterparts (not helped by the ways in which Web 2.0 have affected the nature of online discussion).

Rock Versus Pop is the most prominent way this trope is presented, but the core of the trope is pitting music seen as more organic and from-the-artistic-heart against manufactured by-the-numbers music made to entertain the biggest audience possible.


[[Administrivia/TropesAreFlexible This can also apply to other music genres]] in the battle between authenticity and artifice. It can be a clash between Rock and {{Disco}} much like in TheSeventies (with Rock winning and Disco [[DeaderThanDisco losing and being a pariah]] for [[TheEighties a good part of a decade]]), HipHop versus RhythmAndBlues, PunkRock versus GlamMetal, PunkRock versus ProgressiveRock, PunkRock versus NewWaveMusic, PunkRock versus [[RunningGag any other non-punk music genre]], PostPunk versus NewWaveMusic, GangstaRap versus GlamRap, ThrashMetal versus HairMetal, AlternativeRock versus HairMetal, Indie versus Pop music, or the clash between real instruments versus ElectronicMusic.

to:

[[Administrivia/TropesAreFlexible This can also apply to other music genres]] in the battle between authenticity and artifice. It can be a clash between Rock and {{Disco}} much like in TheSeventies (with Rock winning and Disco [[DeaderThanDisco losing and being a pariah]] for [[TheEighties a good part of a decade]]), HipHop versus RhythmAndBlues, PunkRock versus GlamMetal, PunkRock versus ProgressiveRock, PunkRock versus NewWaveMusic, PunkRock versus [[RunningGag any other non-punk music genre]], PostPunk versus NewWaveMusic, GangstaRap versus GlamRap, ThrashMetal versus HairMetal, AlternativeRock versus HairMetal, Indie versus Pop music, or the clash between real "real" instruments versus ElectronicMusic.


* Music/{{Pink}} has mostly disavowed her first album, ''Can't Take Me Home'', released during the Teen Pop boom in the year 2000. The album had a Pop/R&B sound, but Pink claimed that it was a "comprise" between her and the label. The second album ''Missundaztood'' is completely different, leaning more in a Pop/Rock direction with a few jabs at her old sound and persona, especially on the song ''Don't Let Me Get Me''. It's telling that on tours, she only performs the three singles from the album and nothing else.

to:

* Music/{{Pink}} has mostly disavowed her first album, ''Can't Take Me Home'', released during the Teen Pop boom in the year 2000. The album had a Pop/R&B sound, but Pink claimed that it was a "comprise" "compromise" between her and the label. The second album ''Missundaztood'' is completely different, leaning more in a Pop/Rock direction with a few jabs at her old sound and persona, especially on the song ''Don't Let Me Get Me''. It's telling that on tours, she only performs the three singles from the album and nothing else.


[[Administrivia/TropesAreFlexible This can also apply to other music genres]] in the battle between authenticity and artifice. It can be a clash between Rock and {{Disco}} much like in TheSeventies (with Rock winning and Disco [[DeaderThanDisco losing and being a pariah]] for [[TheEighties a good part of a decade]]), HipHop versus RhythmAndBlues, PunkRock versus GlamMetal, PunkRock versus ProgressiveRock, PunkRock versus NewWaveMusic, PostPunk versus NewWaveMusic, GangstaRap versus GlamRap, ThrashMetal versus HairMetal, AlternativeRock versus HairMetal, Indie versus Pop music, or the clash between real instruments versus ElectronicMusic.

to:

[[Administrivia/TropesAreFlexible This can also apply to other music genres]] in the battle between authenticity and artifice. It can be a clash between Rock and {{Disco}} much like in TheSeventies (with Rock winning and Disco [[DeaderThanDisco losing and being a pariah]] for [[TheEighties a good part of a decade]]), HipHop versus RhythmAndBlues, PunkRock versus GlamMetal, PunkRock versus ProgressiveRock, PunkRock versus NewWaveMusic, PunkRock versus [[RunningGag any other non-punk music genre]], PostPunk versus NewWaveMusic, GangstaRap versus GlamRap, ThrashMetal versus HairMetal, AlternativeRock versus HairMetal, Indie versus Pop music, or the clash between real instruments versus ElectronicMusic.

Added DiffLines:

* Music/TalkingHeads were cast in this rivalry against disco by fans and the music press due to the line in their song, "Life During Wartime", "This ain't no disco," being taken as an anti-disco song at [[DeaderThanDisco the height of the backlash against the genre]]. The band members were actually fans of disco and RAndB music, which would become obvious on albums like ''Music/RemainInLight'' and ''Music/SpeakingInTongues''.


* Played with on ''Series/BigTimeRush''. When Lucy calls their band pop, the boys take offense, and try to prove to her that they can rock as hard as she can. It takes stopping traffic with an impromptu concert for her to admit they ''do'' rock.

to:

* Played with on ''Series/BigTimeRush''. When Lucy calls their band pop, band's pop music "cute", the boys take offense, and try to prove to her that they can rock as hard as she can. It takes stopping traffic with an impromptu concert for her to admit they ''do'' rock.


* ''VideoGame/{{NoStraightRoads}}'' uses EDM rather than Pop although one of their artists is a mermaid-themed Pop singer. Interestingly, [[spoiler:the game's [[AnAesop main message]] is that all forms of music are valid, and that nobody should stifle the creation of it, whether it be rock or EDM.]]

to:

* ''VideoGame/{{NoStraightRoads}}'' uses EDM rather than Pop although one of ''VideoGame/NoStraightRoads'' plays with this trope quite a bit, and ultimately subverts it in the end. Protagonists Mayday and Zuke are an indie rock duo fighting to free their city from the reign of the tyrannical, EDM-loving record label NSR. However, NSR's CEO rightfully points out during her boss battle that the band's plan could put thousands of the company's employees out of work, and their revolution mainly consisted of crashing the performances of some legitimately good artists is a mermaid-themed Pop singer. Interestingly, and beating them up when all they wanted to do was play for their fans. This leads to Mayday realizing she was ultimately no better than the company she was fighting against -- ''especially'' when [[spoiler:the game's [[AnAesop main message]] disgruntled rock fan who'd been assisting the band decides to drop a satellite on the city just to spite NSR. In the end, the Aesop is a rejection of the trope, saying that all forms of music are valid, there is no superior way to go about one's craft, and that nobody should stifle the creation attempting to subjugate one form of it, whether it be rock or EDM.art in favor of another does more harm than good.]]


[[Administrivia/TropesAreFlexible This can also apply to other music genres]] in the battle between authenticity and artifice. It can be a clash between Rock and {{Disco}} much like in TheSeventies (with Rock winning and Disco [[DeaderThanDisco losing and being a pariah]] for [[TheEighties a good part of a decade]]), HipHop versus RhythmAndBlues, PunkRock versus GlamMetal, PunkRock versus ProgressiveRock, PunkRock versus NewWaveMusic, PostPunk versus NewWaveMusic, GangstaRap versus GlamRap, ThrashMetal versus HairMetal, AlternativeRock versus HairMetal, Pop versus Indie music, or the clash between real instruments versus ElectronicMusic.

to:

[[Administrivia/TropesAreFlexible This can also apply to other music genres]] in the battle between authenticity and artifice. It can be a clash between Rock and {{Disco}} much like in TheSeventies (with Rock winning and Disco [[DeaderThanDisco losing and being a pariah]] for [[TheEighties a good part of a decade]]), HipHop versus RhythmAndBlues, PunkRock versus GlamMetal, PunkRock versus ProgressiveRock, PunkRock versus NewWaveMusic, PostPunk versus NewWaveMusic, GangstaRap versus GlamRap, ThrashMetal versus HairMetal, AlternativeRock versus HairMetal, Pop Indie versus Indie Pop music, or the clash between real instruments versus ElectronicMusic.


* ''VideoGame/{{NoStraightRoads}}'' uses EDM rather than Pop although one of their artists is a mermaid-themed Pop singer.

to:

* ''VideoGame/{{NoStraightRoads}}'' uses EDM rather than Pop although one of their artists is a mermaid-themed Pop singer. Interestingly, [[spoiler:the game's [[AnAesop main message]] is that all forms of music are valid, and that nobody should stifle the creation of it, whether it be rock or EDM.]]


[[Administrivia/TropesAreFlexible This can also apply to other music genres]] in the battle between authenticity and artifice. It can be a clash between Rock and {{Disco}} much like in TheSeventies (with Rock winning and Disco [[DeaderThanDisco losing and being a pariah]] for [[TheEighties a good part of a decade]]), HipHop versus RhythmAndBlues, PunkRock versus GlamMetal, PunkRock versus ProgressiveRock, PunkRock versus NewWaveMusic, NewWaveMusic versus PostPunk, GangstaRap versus GlamRap, ThrashMetal versus HairMetal, AlternativeRock versus HairMetal, Pop versus Indie music, or the clash between real instruments versus ElectronicMusic.

to:

[[Administrivia/TropesAreFlexible This can also apply to other music genres]] in the battle between authenticity and artifice. It can be a clash between Rock and {{Disco}} much like in TheSeventies (with Rock winning and Disco [[DeaderThanDisco losing and being a pariah]] for [[TheEighties a good part of a decade]]), HipHop versus RhythmAndBlues, PunkRock versus GlamMetal, PunkRock versus ProgressiveRock, PunkRock versus NewWaveMusic, PostPunk versus NewWaveMusic, NewWaveMusic versus PostPunk, GangstaRap versus GlamRap, ThrashMetal versus HairMetal, AlternativeRock versus HairMetal, Pop versus Indie music, or the clash between real instruments versus ElectronicMusic.


* Played with in ''Film/LaLaLand''; Sebastian is a traditional {{jazz}} musician with dreams of starting a jazz bar, but as money becomes tight, his friend Keith invites him to be in his jazz/pop/RAndB fusion band. It's obvious that Sebastian hates the type of music and he's giving up on his dreams, and it's exemplified in a musical sequence where Keith's band plays a sold-out show complete with dancers. But Keith isn't portrayed antagonistically, in fact he actually makes a great point about Sebastian self-sabotaging himself and how traditional jazz cannot be popular again until it evolves to be more like what people are listening to today.

to:

* Played with in ''Film/LaLaLand''; ''Film/LaLaLand'' where ''jazz'' is authentic, pop is shallow; Sebastian is a traditional {{jazz}} musician with dreams of starting a jazz bar, but as money becomes tight, his friend Keith invites him to be in his jazz/pop/RAndB fusion band. It's obvious that Sebastian hates the type of music and he's giving up on his dreams, and it's exemplified in a musical sequence where Keith's band plays a sold-out show complete with dancers. But Keith isn't portrayed antagonistically, in fact he actually makes a great point about Sebastian self-sabotaging himself and how traditional jazz cannot be popular again until it evolves to be more like what people are listening to today.


[[Administrivia/TropesAreFlexible This can also apply to other music genres]] in the battle between authenticity and artifice. It can be a clash between Rock and {{Disco}} much like in TheSeventies (with Rock winning and Disco [[DeaderThanDisco losing and being a pariah]] for [[TheEighties a good part of a decade]]), HipHop versus RhythmAndBlues, PunkRock versus GlamMetal, PunkRock versus ProgressiveRock, PunkRock versus NewWaveMusic, NewWaveMusic versus PostPunk, GangstaRap versus GlamRap, Pop versus Indie music, or the clash between real instruments versus ElectronicMusic.

to:

[[Administrivia/TropesAreFlexible This can also apply to other music genres]] in the battle between authenticity and artifice. It can be a clash between Rock and {{Disco}} much like in TheSeventies (with Rock winning and Disco [[DeaderThanDisco losing and being a pariah]] for [[TheEighties a good part of a decade]]), HipHop versus RhythmAndBlues, PunkRock versus GlamMetal, PunkRock versus ProgressiveRock, PunkRock versus NewWaveMusic, NewWaveMusic versus PostPunk, GangstaRap versus GlamRap, ThrashMetal versus HairMetal, AlternativeRock versus HairMetal, Pop versus Indie music, or the clash between real instruments versus ElectronicMusic.


* ''WesternAnimation/MiraculousLadybug'': The episodes "Guitar Villain" and "Silencer" have pitted rock acts (the
eccentric, flamboyant rock star Jagged Stone in the former and the GarageBand Kitty Section in the latter) against the obnoxious, manufactured pop/EDM musician XY. However, the show doesn't portray pop music as ''bad'' -- the main issues with XY are his manufactured (and [[PlagiarismInFiction stolen]]) sound, {{jerkass}} attitude, and the fact that he only got so far because of {{nepotism}}. When unrelated sweet pop star Clara Nightingale rolled into Paris in season 2, she was portrayed positively.

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/MiraculousLadybug'': The episodes "Guitar Villain" and "Silencer" have pitted rock acts (the
(the eccentric, flamboyant rock star Jagged Stone in the former and the GarageBand Kitty Section in the latter) against the obnoxious, manufactured pop/EDM musician XY. However, the show doesn't portray pop music as ''bad'' -- the main issues with XY are his manufactured (and [[PlagiarismInFiction stolen]]) sound, {{jerkass}} attitude, and the fact that he only got so far because of {{nepotism}}. When unrelated sweet pop star Clara Nightingale rolled into Paris in season 2, she was portrayed positively.

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