Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Main / NoSuchThingAsWizardJesus

Go To



*** Samairah al-Abbas, a Muslim {{Valkyrie|s}}, takes a [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism henotheistic]] approach to the Myth/{{Norse|Mythology}} deities. She interprets them not as actual gods, since UsefulNotes/{{Islam}} has only one true God, but as powerful magical spirits akin to the Islamic concept of angels and jinn. Heimdall, Guardian of the Bifrost, also believes this is true when it comes to the Norse Gods, including himself.
*** The main character, Magnus, is FlatEarthAtheist. Being an [[ResurrectiveImmortality einherjar warrior]], he acknowledges the obvious existence of gods, but not capital-g God.

to:

*** Samairah al-Abbas, a Muslim {{Valkyrie|s}}, {{Valkyrie|s}} and a devout Muslim, takes a [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism henotheistic]] approach to the Myth/{{Norse|Mythology}} deities. She interprets them not as actual gods, since UsefulNotes/{{Islam}} has only one true God, but as powerful magical spirits akin to the Islamic concept of angels and jinn. Heimdall, Guardian of the Bifrost, also believes that this is true when it comes to the Norse Gods, including himself.
true.
*** The main character, Magnus, title character is FlatEarthAtheist. Being an [[ResurrectiveImmortality einherjar warrior]], he Magnus acknowledges the obvious existence of Norse gods, but not the capital-g God.


* The corpse parts in [[Manga/JoJosBizarreAdventureSteelBallRun Part 7]] of ''Manga/JoJosBizarreAdventure'' are heavily implied to be that of Jesus. Despite ''utilizing'' the existing supernatural elements of the series, part of the reason the corpse serves as the MacGuffin of the Part is that its power is still on a whole different level and breaks several established rules.
* Enel from ''Manga/OnePiece'' believes himself to be a PhysicalGod (and he actually holds the title of "God" on Skypiea, though that is more like their word for "King" and several ordinary people have had it before him); though he is unquestionably phenomenally powerful, one of the strongest characters in the series (in a world where there are people who can destroy whole islands with ease), he is actually just a guy who ate the Lightning Logia Devil Fruit, and is thus no different from the dozens of others who have gained superpowers from eating a Devil Fruit, though again his is undoubtedly one of the most impressive.



* Enel from ''Manga/OnePiece'' believes himself to be a PhysicalGod (and he actually holds the title of "God" on Skypiea, though that is more like their word for "King" and several ordinary people have had it before him); though he is unquestionably phenomenally powerful, one of the strongest characters in the series (in a world where there are people who can destroy whole islands with ease), he is actually just a guy who ate the Lightning Logia Devil Fruit, and is thus no different from the dozens of others who have gained superpowers from eating a Devil Fruit, though again his is undoubtedly one of the most impressive.


[[folder:Anime and Manga]]
* ''LightNovel/ACertainMagicalIndex'' is very close to the line; ReligionIsMagic, the Apostles were amongst the most powerful Magicians in history, the Saintsí magic powers are derived from possessing similar type and nature of body to Jesus, and there are spells that were either developed from his miracles or used by him. But no one doubts that Jesus really was the Son of God, capable of miracles and truly divine in nature, due to the fact that AllMythsAreTrue and things like the Archangels and God are confirmed to exist. Except the Science Side, which is mostly made up of agnostics.
[[/folder]]



* ''LightNovel/ACertainMagicalIndex'' is very close to the line. Magic operates through "Idol Theory", where symbolising or embodying a powerful figure lets you wield their power. [[ReligionIsMagic Most religions use spells which invoke their own gods and their miracles]], and Saints are simply mages [[BornWinner born with bodies so similar to Jesus that they evoke his power automatically]]. Some level of ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve is implied, given that a number of spells explicitly rely on syncretism, and one mage is even capable of basing spells on ''Literature/{{Cinderella}}'' simply because her imagery is widely known. But at the same time no one doubts that Jesus really was the Son of God, capable of miracles and truly divine in nature, due to the fact that AllMythsAreTrue and things like the Archangels and God are confirmed to exist. Except the Science Side, which is mostly made up of agnostics. Further {{Zigzagged|Trope}} when the AIM fields emitted by the Science Side's [[PsychicPowers espers]] are shown to crystallise into winged EnergyBeings in sufficient densities, suggesting that ancient naturally-ocurring espers may have [[GodOfHumanOrigin either created or transformed into gods]]... though it's [[AmbiguousSituation left ambiguous]] given that the process for artificially awakening esper powers was modelled on a SecretArt for permanently imbuing a mage with the power of an archangel.
* Toyed with in Traci Harding's ''Ancient Future Trilogy''. The notion that Jesus might have been one of the Chosen Immortals is brought up, but the cast decides not to pursue it due to the trickiness of the subject. Then addressed indirectly in the sequel trilogies.
* ''Literature/ChroniclesOfChaos'': In ''Orphans of Chaos'', Thelxiepia the siren--who lives side by side with Greek gods, Titans and such--is capable of actually observing (with her multidimensional senses) a divine force reaching down "from above" when an early Christian saint performed a miracle, which led to her conversion to Christianity. Although, since this was in the first few centuries AD, it was to Donatism--a now extinct Christian group--except for herself (being immortal). She also states that some of the other Greek myth types believe Jesus was a little-g god rather like themselves.



* In Creator/JohnCWright's ''[[Literature/ChroniclesOfChaos Orphans of Chaos]]'', Thelxiepia the siren--who lives side by side with Greek gods, Titans and such--is capable of actually observing (with her multidimensional senses) a divine force reaching down "from above" when an early Christian saint performed a miracle, which led to her conversion to Christianity. Although, since this was in the first few centuries AD, it was to Donatism--a now extinct Christian group--except for herself (being immortal). She also states that some of the other Greek myth types believe Jesus was a little-g god rather like themselves.



* Toyed with in Traci Harding's ''Ancient Future Trilogy''. The notion that Jesus might have been one of the Chosen Immortals is brought up, but the cast decides not to pursue it due to the trickiness of the subject. Then addressed indirectly in the sequel trilogies.

to:

* Toyed with Lampshaded, then subverted in Traci Harding's ''Ancient Future Trilogy''. The notion that Jesus might have been one of the Chosen Immortals ''Literature/OracleOfTao''. It is brought up, but up the cast decides not everyone can use magic so in theory Jesus shouldn't be any different from regular wizards. But Jesus is able to pursue it due to summon matter from nothing (largely against the trickiness rules of the subject. Then addressed indirectly universe, which outright creation being difficult or impossible, and creation of ''food'' even more so) and Jesus can heal without using runes and without the mystic power that other healers need. While other party members can also walk on snow, and protect themselves from the cold, Jesus appears to do it ''naturally.'' It tends to walk the line however, because while Jesus often seems to outright ignore the laws of physics in the sequel trilogies.universe, there are plenty of wizards that seem to be more powerful in other ways (Jesus doesn't really seem able to cast conventional spells).



* Lampshaded, then subverted in ''Literature/OracleOfTao''. It is brought up the everyone can use magic so in theory Jesus shouldn't be any different from regular wizards. But Jesus is able to summon matter from nothing (largely against the rules of the universe, which outright creation being difficult or impossible, and creation of ''food'' even more so) and Jesus can heal without using runes and without the mystic power that other healers need. While other party members can also walk on snow, and protect themselves from the cold, Jesus appears to do it ''naturally.'' It tends to walk the line however, because while Jesus often seems to outright ignore the laws of physics in the universe, there are plenty of wizards that seem to be more powerful in other ways (Jesus doesn't really seem able to cast conventional spells).


*** It should be noted that even if Daniel is right, Buddhism would remain a viable religion. If anything, it would be strengthened by the knowledge that ascension is a viable path. Daniel himself could qualify as a boddhisattva, having achieved enlightenment and chosen to forsake it out of compassion.



** Well, Nathan did [[AbortedArc for a while...]]
** The Haitian also sees his powers as a divine gift.



* Prior to the 1800s and the age of rationality, attempting to explain miracles in the context of the developing fields of chemistry (alchemy) or tricks/hoaxes demonstrated to be possible later was carefully avoided, primarily due to the Church's tendency to set people on fire for doing so.
** Though this is perhaps more on the order of "No such thing as science Jesus".
*** To a degree this is still true. It's alright to point out some bearded man in India is "turning sticks into snakes" by holding his hand over the snake's eyes, which causes them to freeze. It's something else altogether to suggest Moses might have used the same trick.
*** On the same note, there is an aversion with the Egyptian priests from that story. All the Bible has to say on the matter is that they reproduced the trick by "secret arts" (although the snakes produced were weaker and quickly devoured). The traditional interpretation is that they used evil magic, but most modern portrayals present it as them using trickery while Moses (or Aaron in the actual Bible) did it for real.
** There's also been different views of the issue throughout history. With certain groups like the Jesuits arguing scientific understanding as understanding of God's creation, while others argue it is picking apart at the very notion of God.

Added DiffLines:

* In ''TabletopGame/GURPSBanestorm'', most people believe that God's power is qualitatively different from magic. The Catholic Church is thus very careful when making saints, since they have to make a distinction between miracles and spells (even raising the dead just requires a skilled necromancer).


* ''Series/{{Charmed}}'' really liked to dance around the theological implications of the setting, especially with things like Leo being brought back to life with holy [[HealingHands healing powers]] by the PowersThatBe and using a ThemeParkVersion of Wicca religion whenever the plot called for something religious to take place. They once had Leo and Piper gain the powers of the Hindu Gods. Piper even gets six arms, and fights demons with her goddess powers. And, the Greek gods were revealed to be humans empowered by whitelighters.

to:

* ''Series/{{Charmed}}'' ''Series/{{Charmed|1998}}'' really liked to dance around the theological implications of the setting, especially with things like Leo being brought back to life with holy [[HealingHands healing powers]] by the PowersThatBe and using a ThemeParkVersion of Wicca religion whenever the plot called for something religious to take place. They once had Leo and Piper gain the powers of the Hindu Gods. Piper even gets six arms, and fights demons with her goddess powers. And, the Greek gods were revealed to be humans empowered by whitelighters.


*** The ''Series/FactionParadox'' spinoff has a technological afterlife [[spoiler: (the Doctor's former companion/TARDIS turns herself into a megacity at the end of the universe and resurrects every human who ever lived]]). And Jesus is definitely there, but he's not sitting on a ''Revelation''-style throne, he's just a carpenter and boatwright who tells the children stories and won't say whether he's the Son of God. And, even if he isn't, would a technologically-resurrected Jesus be the Son of God anyway, or just his human essence? That question leads to the Arian heresies and so on, so the author decided to leave it up to the reader.

to:

*** The ''Series/FactionParadox'' ''Franchise/FactionParadox'' spinoff has a technological afterlife [[spoiler: (the Doctor's former companion/TARDIS turns herself into a megacity at the end of the universe and resurrects every human who ever lived]]). And Jesus is definitely there, but he's not sitting on a ''Revelation''-style throne, he's just a carpenter and boatwright who tells the children stories and won't say whether he's the Son of God. And, even if he isn't, would a technologically-resurrected Jesus be the Son of God anyway, or just his human essence? That question leads to the Arian heresies and so on, so the author decided to leave it up to the reader.


* Lampshaded, then subverted in ''Literature/OracleOfTao''. It is brought up the everyone can use magic so in theory Jesus shouldn't be any different from regular wizards. But Jesus is able to summon matter from nothing (largely against the rules of the universe, which outright creation being difficult or impossible, and creation of ''food'' even more so) and Jesus can heal without using runes and without the mystic power that other healers need. While other party members can also walk on snow, and protect themselves from the cold, Jesus appears to do it ''naturally.''


Added DiffLines:

* Lampshaded, then subverted in ''Literature/OracleOfTao''. It is brought up the everyone can use magic so in theory Jesus shouldn't be any different from regular wizards. But Jesus is able to summon matter from nothing (largely against the rules of the universe, which outright creation being difficult or impossible, and creation of ''food'' even more so) and Jesus can heal without using runes and without the mystic power that other healers need. While other party members can also walk on snow, and protect themselves from the cold, Jesus appears to do it ''naturally.'' It tends to walk the line however, because while Jesus often seems to outright ignore the laws of physics in the universe, there are plenty of wizards that seem to be more powerful in other ways (Jesus doesn't really seem able to cast conventional spells).


* Lampshaded, then subverted in ''Literature/OracleOfTao''. It is brought up the everyone can use magic so in theory Jesus shouldn't be any different from regular wizards. But Jesus is able to summon matter from nothing (largely against the rules of the universe, which outright creation being difficult or impossible, and creation of ''food'' even more so) and Jesus can heal without using runes and without the mystic power that other healers need. While other party members can also walk on snow, and protect themselves from the cold, Jesus appears to do it ''naturally.''


Added DiffLines:

* Lampshaded, then subverted in ''Literature/OracleOfTao''. It is brought up the everyone can use magic so in theory Jesus shouldn't be any different from regular wizards. But Jesus is able to summon matter from nothing (largely against the rules of the universe, which outright creation being difficult or impossible, and creation of ''food'' even more so) and Jesus can heal without using runes and without the mystic power that other healers need. While other party members can also walk on snow, and protect themselves from the cold, Jesus appears to do it ''naturally.''

Added DiffLines:

* Lampshaded, then subverted in ''Literature/OracleOfTao''. It is brought up the everyone can use magic so in theory Jesus shouldn't be any different from regular wizards. But Jesus is able to summon matter from nothing (largely against the rules of the universe, which outright creation being difficult or impossible, and creation of ''food'' even more so) and Jesus can heal without using runes and without the mystic power that other healers need. While other party members can also walk on snow, and protect themselves from the cold, Jesus appears to do it ''naturally.''

Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Film]]
* ''Film/{{Bright}}'' takes place in a world where magic and other fantastical beings have co-existed with mankind since the dawn of time. There is even an [[CrystalDragonJesus separate quasi-Christian religion]] practiced by orcs that states their MessianicArchetype was the first Bright to have united the free races against the UltimateEvil. Yet, nobody discusses the possibility of Jesus Christ being a Bright himself despite him being acknowledged to exist in this universe (several characters exclaim "Jesus!" and the story takes place in Los Angeles, an city historically founded by Catholic missionaries). It can come across as weird since certain historical figures that preceded him like Sargon of Akkad were {{Benevolent Mage Ruler}}s.
[[/folder]]


Ishbala's failure to protect his people in any way from the Amestrian genocide campaign is invoked on-site as a great reason not to convert. Bradley was promised that God would judge him; narration that might be either his or Roy's says, "God is something created by humans. Therefore, what will judge us is not God, but probably 'humans.'" Japan being an irreligious country, Arakawa didn't need to hold back much.

to:

Ishbala's failure to protect his people in any way from the Amestrian genocide campaign is invoked on-site as a great reason not to convert. Bradley was promised that God would judge him; narration that might be either his or Roy's says, "God is something created by humans. Therefore, what will judge us is not God, but probably 'humans.'" Japan being an irreligious country, '", Arakawa didn't need to hold back much.


* In the wake of ''ComicBook/SecretWars1984'', devout Catholic ComicBook/Nightcrawler has a crisis of faith after dealing with the Beyonder, who was for all extents and purposes omnipotent as God is thought to be, but certainly ''not'' all-loving.

to:

* In the wake of ''ComicBook/SecretWars1984'', devout Catholic ComicBook/Nightcrawler ComicBook/{{Nightcrawler}} has a crisis of faith after dealing with the Beyonder, who was for all extents and purposes omnipotent as God is thought to be, but certainly ''not'' all-loving.


* One story arc in ''ComicBook/XMen'' saw devout Catholic Nightcrawler having a crisis of faith after the omnipotent Beyonder comes to Earth, when he wondered if this made God a monster.

to:

* One story arc in ''ComicBook/XMen'' saw In the wake of ''ComicBook/SecretWars1984'', devout Catholic Nightcrawler having ComicBook/Nightcrawler has a crisis of faith after dealing with the Beyonder, who was for all extents and purposes omnipotent Beyonder comes to Earth, when he wondered if this made as God a monster.is thought to be, but certainly ''not'' all-loving.


* ''LightNovel/ACertainMagicalIndex'' is very close to the line; ReligionIsMagic, the Apostles were amongst the most powerful Magicians in history, the Saintsí magic powers are derived from possessing similar type and nature of body to Jesus, and there are spells that were either developed from his miracles or used by him. But no one doubts that Jesus really was the Son of God, capable of miracles and truly divine in nature. Except the Science Side, which is mostly made up of agnostics.


Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Anime and Manga]]
* ''LightNovel/ACertainMagicalIndex'' is very close to the line; ReligionIsMagic, the Apostles were amongst the most powerful Magicians in history, the Saintsí magic powers are derived from possessing similar type and nature of body to Jesus, and there are spells that were either developed from his miracles or used by him. But no one doubts that Jesus really was the Son of God, capable of miracles and truly divine in nature, due to the fact that AllMythsAreTrue and things like the Archangels and God are confirmed to exist. Except the Science Side, which is mostly made up of agnostics.
[[/folder]]

Showing 15 edit(s) of 407

Top

How well does it match the trope?

Example of:

/

Media sources:

/

Report