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!!To compare this with another logical set of terms: SoundValidTrue
to:
!!To compare this with another logical set of terms: SoundValidTrue
[[UsefulNotes/LogicalFallacies Sound/Valid/True]]
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Cleaning up entries from troper with political agenda.
Deleted line(s) 1,3 (click to see context) :
->''It is bad enough that so many people believe things without any evidence. What is worse is that some people have no conception of evidence and regard facts as someone else's opinion.''
-->--'''Thomas Sowell'''
-->--'''Thomas Sowell'''
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->''It is bad enough that so many people believe things without any evidence. What is worse is that some people have no conception of evidence and regard facts as someone else's opinion.''
-->--'''Thomas Sowell'''
-->--'''Thomas Sowell'''
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TRS
Changed line(s) 51 (click to see context) from:
* TrueArt: The argument that only works that can be critical thought about are worthy.
to:
* TrueArt: The argument that only works that can be critical thought about are worthy.worthy.
----
!Please do not add examples to work pages, this merely [[Administrivia/DefinitionOnlyPages defines the term]]. %%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1596363404091310800
----
!Please do not add examples to work pages, this merely [[Administrivia/DefinitionOnlyPages defines the term]]. %%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1596363404091310800
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Fixed some grammar
Changed line(s) 3,8 (click to see context) from:
In logic and critical thinking studies it is important to denote the differences in these terms. Oddly in a lot of modern critics this has gone over a lot of heads.
* A fact is a statement that is true
* An opinion is a statement a person holds to be true
* An argument is a set of statements one makes to prove a conclusion
* A fact is a statement that is true
* An opinion is a statement a person holds to be true
* An argument is a set of statements one makes to prove a conclusion
to:
In logic and critical thinking studies it is important to denote the differences in these terms. Oddly in Oddly, this goes over the heads of a lot of modern critics this has gone over a lot of heads.
critics.
* A fact is a statement that istrue
true.
* An opinion is a statement a person holds to betrue
true.
* An argument is a set of statements one makes to prove aconclusion
conclusion.
* A fact is a statement that is
* An opinion is a statement a person holds to be
* An argument is a set of statements one makes to prove a
Changed line(s) 11,15 (click to see context) from:
* Cats are Animals (Fact)
* I think cats are awesome (Opinion)
* Cats can make meow sounds, I think meow sounds can be annoying, I think cats can be annoying. (Argument)
* It is also to remember that a statement is often either a "statement of fact" or "statement of opinion". In some cases our "facts" are based on our current understanding and in some cases we just can't test it yet. Saying "There is life on other planets" is a statement of fact, whether it is actually valid or not is something we can't firmly answer although there clearly would be a factual yes or no answer.
* I think cats are awesome (Opinion)
* Cats can make meow sounds, I think meow sounds can be annoying, I think cats can be annoying. (Argument)
* It is also to remember that a statement is often either a "statement of fact" or "statement of opinion". In some cases our "facts" are based on our current understanding and in some cases we just can't test it yet. Saying "There is life on other planets" is a statement of fact, whether it is actually valid or not is something we can't firmly answer although there clearly would be a factual yes or no answer.
to:
* Cats are Animals (Fact)
(Fact).
* I think cats are awesome(Opinion)
(Opinion).
* Cats can make meow sounds, I think meow soundscan be are annoying, I think therefore cats can be annoying. (Argument)
are annoying (Argument).
*It is also to remember Remember that a statement is often either a "statement of fact" or "statement of opinion". In some cases our "facts" are based on our current understanding understanding, and in some cases we just can't test it yet. Saying "There is life on other planets" is a statement of fact, whether it is actually valid or not is something we can't firmly answer although there clearly would be a factual yes or no answer.
* I think cats are awesome
* Cats can make meow sounds, I think meow sounds
*
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None
Changed line(s) 45,46 (click to see context) from:
* An addition to this can happen if the critic suffers from the NostalgiaFilter, they could attack other opinions if they feel their opinions are not being their so-called "objective" because of blindness to the past.
to:
* An addition to this can happen if the critic suffers from believes in the NostalgiaFilter, they could attack other opinions if they feel their opinions are not being their so-called "objective" because of blindness to the past.
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Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
to:
** Lastly, the most confusing this gets will crop back up later or in your school papers. The statement "I have the opinion _____", is a fact. It is a fact you have the opinion. It inherently says nothing about the opinion itself.
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Changed line(s) 7,8 (click to see context) from:
* An argument is a set of statements one makes to prove a fact
to:
* An argument is a set of statements one makes to prove a fact
conclusion
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Changed line(s) 30,51 (click to see context) from:
** It is easy to confuse some of this if you aren't taught to look for it. As mentioned above the line between a statement of fact vs opinion is just at how you mean it. But it is important not to get these mixed up. Let's make a larger round example.
Statement of Fact: There is alien life on other planets.
* Although whether or not this can be validated is something we can't test yet.
Statement of Opinion: I think there is alien life on other planets.
Argument using the SOF
Life can exist on a planet's like Earth.
Planet X is a planet like Earth.
Therefore Life can exist on Planet X.
This is valid, it might be sound if there was a Planet X. But the conclusion followed from the premises.
Argument using SOO
I think life can exist on other planets if they are like Earth.
There are other planets like Earth
Therefore I think life can exist on other planets.
This is also valid, but whether it's sound clearly depends on who "I" is. The point of this exercise is to make the reader realize that we are using the statement of your opinion, and not the actual opinion. As while you have an opinion, it is true to you which makes it subjective others can reject it, but the fact you have it is objective. Which is why we can use it in an argument.
We can not validate a statement you hold you to be true. We can however validate that you have that opinion by asking you.
Statement of Fact: There is alien life on other planets.
* Although whether or not this can be validated is something we can't test yet.
Statement of Opinion: I think there is alien life on other planets.
Argument using the SOF
Life can exist on a planet's like Earth.
Planet X is a planet like Earth.
Therefore Life can exist on Planet X.
This is valid, it might be sound if there was a Planet X. But the conclusion followed from the premises.
Argument using SOO
I think life can exist on other planets if they are like Earth.
There are other planets like Earth
Therefore I think life can exist on other planets.
This is also valid, but whether it's sound clearly depends on who "I" is. The point of this exercise is to make the reader realize that we are using the statement of your opinion, and not the actual opinion. As while you have an opinion, it is true to you which makes it subjective others can reject it, but the fact you have it is objective. Which is why we can use it in an argument.
We can not validate a statement you hold you to be true. We can however validate that you have that opinion by asking you.
to:
Statement of Fact: There is alien life on other planets.
* Although whether or not this can be validated is something we can't test yet.
Statement of Opinion: I think there is alien life on other planets.
Argument using the SOF
Life can exist on a planet's like Earth.
Planet X is a planet like Earth.
Therefore Life can exist on Planet X.
This is valid, it might be sound if there was a Planet X. But the conclusion followed from the premises.
Argument using SOO
I think life can exist on other planets if they are like Earth.
There are other planets like Earth
Therefore I think life can exist on other planets.
This is also valid, but whether it's sound clearly depends on who "I" is. The point of this exercise is to make the reader realize that we are using the
** Also while we use this theory in a mirco level, you can get a major brainfuzz if you apply it to micro levels, as while you
We can not validate a statement you hold you to be true. We can however validate
Added DiffLines:
* Some People are prone to use the macro level to try to muddy the waters on the line between "fact" and "opinion". But a good way to check for errors here is to see if they use the words "argument" and "statement" as they should.
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None
* It is also to remember that a statement is often either a "statement of fact" or "statement of opinion". In some cases our "facts" are based on our current understanding and in some cases we just can't test it yet. Saying "There is life on other planets" is a statement of fact, whether it is actually valid or not is something we can't firmly answer although there clearly would be a factual yes or no answer.
** However remember while that is a statement of fact, "I think there is life on other planets" is a statement of opinion. You hold it to be true. While the subject of the opinion might be true, the statement is of what you think making it your opinion, not a fact.
** However remember while that is a statement of fact, "I think there is life on other planets" is a statement of opinion. You hold it to be true. While the subject of the opinion might be true, the statement is of what you think making it your opinion, not a fact.
Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
* A fact is by default true. You can validate a fact by proving it to be true
to:
* A fact is by default true. You can validate a fact by proving it to be truetrue.
Added DiffLines:
** It is easy to confuse some of this if you aren't taught to look for it. As mentioned above the line between a statement of fact vs opinion is just at how you mean it. But it is important not to get these mixed up. Let's make a larger round example.
Statement of Fact: There is alien life on other planets.
* Although whether or not this can be validated is something we can't test yet.
Statement of Opinion: I think there is alien life on other planets.
Argument using the SOF
Life can exist on a planet's like Earth.
Planet X is a planet like Earth.
Therefore Life can exist on Planet X.
This is valid, it might be sound if there was a Planet X. But the conclusion followed from the premises.
Argument using SOO
I think life can exist on other planets if they are like Earth.
There are other planets like Earth
Therefore I think life can exist on other planets.
This is also valid, but whether it's sound clearly depends on who "I" is. The point of this exercise is to make the reader realize that we are using the statement of your opinion, and not the actual opinion. As while you have an opinion, it is true to you which makes it subjective others can reject it, but the fact you have it is objective. Which is why we can use it in an argument.
We can not validate a statement you hold you to be true. We can however validate that you have that opinion by asking you.
Statement of Fact: There is alien life on other planets.
* Although whether or not this can be validated is something we can't test yet.
Statement of Opinion: I think there is alien life on other planets.
Argument using the SOF
Life can exist on a planet's like Earth.
Planet X is a planet like Earth.
Therefore Life can exist on Planet X.
This is valid, it might be sound if there was a Planet X. But the conclusion followed from the premises.
Argument using SOO
I think life can exist on other planets if they are like Earth.
There are other planets like Earth
Therefore I think life can exist on other planets.
This is also valid, but whether it's sound clearly depends on who "I" is. The point of this exercise is to make the reader realize that we are using the statement of your opinion, and not the actual opinion. As while you have an opinion, it is true to you which makes it subjective others can reject it, but the fact you have it is objective. Which is why we can use it in an argument.
We can not validate a statement you hold you to be true. We can however validate that you have that opinion by asking you.
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None
Changed line(s) 36,39 (click to see context) from:
* NoTrueScotsman: Used often by critics with selective "arguments" that need to defend it even when it defies logic.
** Examples would include discounting certain past examples for not being true examples or stating a work can't be looked at in a certain way based on their opinion
* NostalgiaFilter: Used when the critic deems opinions/tastes of others are only positive by means of nostalgia. Often held as a fact or an argument they can prove, when it is not.
** Examples would include discounting certain past examples for not being true examples or stating a work can't be looked at in a certain way based on their opinion
* NostalgiaFilter: Used when the critic deems opinions/tastes of others are only positive by means of nostalgia. Often held as a fact or an argument they can prove, when it is not.
to:
* NoTrueScotsman: Used often by critics with selective "arguments" that need to defend it even when it defies logic.
** Examples would include discounting certain past examples for not being true examples or stating a work can't be looked at in a certain way based on their opinion
* NostalgiaFilter: Used when theA critic deems opinions/tastes of others are only positive by means of nostalgia. Often held will make an opinion that is treated as a fact or an argument but keep excluding opposing other viewpoints as being a NoTrueScotsman
* An addition to this can happen if the critic suffers from the NostalgiaFilter, theycan prove, when it is not.
could attack other opinions if they feel their opinions are not being their so-called "objective" because of blindness to the past.
** Examples would include discounting certain past examples for not being true examples or stating a work can't be looked at in a certain way based on their opinion
* NostalgiaFilter: Used when the
* An addition to this can happen if the critic suffers from the NostalgiaFilter, they
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Deleted line(s) 34 (click to see context) :
* A critic has a selective opinion and proceeds to make an argument to claim
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* A critic will hold their work is to be respected like arguments are (for example in the academic setting) even if all their work are actually opinions.
* NoTrueScotsman: When a critic has a selective opinion and spins things around to say that it's still sound to avoid a clear logical flaw.
* NoTrueScotsman: When a critic has a selective opinion and spins things around to say that it's still sound to avoid a clear logical flaw.
to:
* A critic will hold their work is to be respected like arguments are (for example in the academic setting) even if all their work are actually opinions.
opinions.
* NoTrueScotsman:When a critic has a Used often by critics with selective opinion and spins things around to say "arguments" that it's still sound need to avoid defend it even when it defies logic.
** Examples would include discounting certain past examples for not being true examples or stating aclear logical flaw.
work can't be looked at in a certain way based on their opinion
* NostalgiaFilter: Used when the critic deems opinions/tastes of others are only positive by means of nostalgia. Often held as a fact or an argument they can prove, when it is not.
* NoTrueScotsman:
** Examples would include discounting certain past examples for not being true examples or stating a
* NostalgiaFilter: Used when the critic deems opinions/tastes of others are only positive by means of nostalgia. Often held as a fact or an argument they can prove, when it is not.
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* True Art: The argument that only works that can be critical thought about are worthy.
to:
* True Art: TrueArt: The argument that only works that can be critical thought about are worthy.
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Changed line(s) 34 (click to see context) from:
* A critic has a selective opinion and proceeds to make an argument to claim NoTrueScotsman
to:
* A critic has a selective opinion and proceeds to make an argument to claim NoTrueScotsman
Changed line(s) 36 (click to see context) from:
* A critic will hold their work is to be respected like arguments are (for example in the academic setting) even if all their work are actually opinions.
to:
* A critic will hold their work is to be respected like arguments are (for example in the academic setting) even if all their work are actually opinions.opinions.
* NoTrueScotsman: When a critic has a selective opinion and spins things around to say that it's still sound to avoid a clear logical flaw.
By contrast, there are also some mistakes of this logical process in rebuttals as well:
* ItsNotSupposedToWinOscars: In such examples both parties argue as if opinions are to be held as if they are critical think pieces.
* MoffsLaw: A trope wherein one should understand that both exist and shouldn't have to fight, but lack of knowing so often leads to heated arguments.
* ReviewsAreTheGospel: Again treating critiques as higher than opinions.
* True Art: The argument that only works that can be critical thought about are worthy.
* NoTrueScotsman: When a critic has a selective opinion and spins things around to say that it's still sound to avoid a clear logical flaw.
By contrast, there are also some mistakes of this logical process in rebuttals as well:
* ItsNotSupposedToWinOscars: In such examples both parties argue as if opinions are to be held as if they are critical think pieces.
* MoffsLaw: A trope wherein one should understand that both exist and shouldn't have to fight, but lack of knowing so often leads to heated arguments.
* ReviewsAreTheGospel: Again treating critiques as higher than opinions.
* True Art: The argument that only works that can be critical thought about are worthy.
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None
Changed line(s) 7,8 (click to see context) from:
* An argument is a set of statement one makes to prove a fact
to:
* An argument is a set of statement statements one makes to prove a fact
Changed line(s) 13,14 (click to see context) from:
* Cats can make meow sounds I think meow sounds can be annoying I think cats can be annoying. (Argument)
to:
* Cats can make meow sounds sounds, I think meow sounds can be annoying annoying, I think cats can be annoying. (Argument)
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The critical community has changed a lot over time, and this information has been skipped over in more modern times. There has always been room for opinion critics and argument critics, but without the proper definitions many are cherry picking to apply where.
to:
The critical community has changed a lot over time, and this information has been skipped over in more modern times. There has always been room for opinion critics and argument critics, but without the proper definitions many are cherry picking to apply where. \n In older schools of thought, the argument critics were more profound, but following the industrial revolution critics recommending media to the public saw a rise in opinion critics.
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Changed line(s) 9,16 (click to see context) from:
Cats are Animals (Fact)
I think cats are awesome (Opinion)
Cats can make meow sounds
I think meow sounds can be annoying
I think cats can be annoying. (Argument)
To compare this with another logical set of terms: SoundValidTrue
I think cats are awesome (Opinion)
Cats can make meow sounds
I think meow sounds can be annoying
I think cats can be annoying. (Argument)
To compare this with another logical set of terms: SoundValidTrue
to:
*Cats are Animals (Fact)
Changed line(s) 21,22 (click to see context) from:
Applying Real Life Examples
to:
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Applying to Critical Circles
to:
Changed line(s) 33,34 (click to see context) from:
* A critic makes a statement of opinion but acts as if it's objective argument
* A critic has a selective opinion and proceeds to claim NoTrueScotsman
* A critic has a selective opinion and proceeds to claim NoTrueScotsman
to:
* A critic makes a statement of opinion but acts as if it's objective argument
argument (usually in defense when someone rejects the opinion)
* A critic has a selective opinion and proceeds to make an argument to claimNoTrueScotsmanNoTrueScotsman
* A critic will dismiss a fact in favor of claiming it is altered by opinion bias
* A critic will hold their work is to be respected like arguments are (for example in the academic setting) even if all their work are actually opinions.
* A critic has a selective opinion and proceeds to make an argument to claim
* A critic will dismiss a fact in favor of claiming it is altered by opinion bias
* A critic will hold their work is to be respected like arguments are (for example in the academic setting) even if all their work are actually opinions.
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None
Added DiffLines:
!!"Fact," "Opinion" and "Argument"
In logic and critical thinking studies it is important to denote the differences in these terms. Oddly in a lot of modern critics this has gone over a lot of heads.
* A fact is a statement that is true
* An opinion is a statement a person holds to be true
* An argument is a set of statement one makes to prove a fact
Cats are Animals (Fact)
I think cats are awesome (Opinion)
Cats can make meow sounds
I think meow sounds can be annoying
I think cats can be annoying. (Argument)
To compare this with another logical set of terms: SoundValidTrue
* A fact is by default true. You can validate a fact by proving it to be true
* An opinion is never actually true or false. It can also not be validated. The person who holds it believes it to be true, others may only "accept" or "reject" it.
* An argument can be given the complete round of and could be true, valid or sound as detailed on the other page.
Applying Real Life Examples
* Facts are often found many places. In text books, in documents. This one is the simplest.
* Opinions are of course dealing with anything that is subjective. Art critiques are intentionally opinions. The person is giving the artist their thoughts on the subject. They hold what they say to be true, but that does not make it something that could be validated.
* Arguments are found in critical thinking pieces. In school when you write essays for a grade, you were writing an argument. You were attempting to make a conclusion based on evidence in a text. Your argument could have been true and sound, but you would have been graded on if it was valid. Also making an analysis on a work of art is an argument, as in both cases you put aside your bias and think objectively.
Applying to Critical Circles
The critical community has changed a lot over time, and this information has been skipped over in more modern times. There has always been room for opinion critics and argument critics, but without the proper definitions many are cherry picking to apply where.
Common Flaws include
* A critic makes an opinion but holds it as if it's a fact. (aka saying "this movie sucks because of X" (claim of fact) vs "I think this movie sucks because of X" (claim of opinion))
* A critic makes a statement of opinion but acts as if it's objective argument
* A critic has a selective opinion and proceeds to claim NoTrueScotsman
In logic and critical thinking studies it is important to denote the differences in these terms. Oddly in a lot of modern critics this has gone over a lot of heads.
* A fact is a statement that is true
* An opinion is a statement a person holds to be true
* An argument is a set of statement one makes to prove a fact
Cats are Animals (Fact)
I think cats are awesome (Opinion)
Cats can make meow sounds
I think meow sounds can be annoying
I think cats can be annoying. (Argument)
To compare this with another logical set of terms: SoundValidTrue
* A fact is by default true. You can validate a fact by proving it to be true
* An opinion is never actually true or false. It can also not be validated. The person who holds it believes it to be true, others may only "accept" or "reject" it.
* An argument can be given the complete round of and could be true, valid or sound as detailed on the other page.
Applying Real Life Examples
* Facts are often found many places. In text books, in documents. This one is the simplest.
* Opinions are of course dealing with anything that is subjective. Art critiques are intentionally opinions. The person is giving the artist their thoughts on the subject. They hold what they say to be true, but that does not make it something that could be validated.
* Arguments are found in critical thinking pieces. In school when you write essays for a grade, you were writing an argument. You were attempting to make a conclusion based on evidence in a text. Your argument could have been true and sound, but you would have been graded on if it was valid. Also making an analysis on a work of art is an argument, as in both cases you put aside your bias and think objectively.
Applying to Critical Circles
The critical community has changed a lot over time, and this information has been skipped over in more modern times. There has always been room for opinion critics and argument critics, but without the proper definitions many are cherry picking to apply where.
Common Flaws include
* A critic makes an opinion but holds it as if it's a fact. (aka saying "this movie sucks because of X" (claim of fact) vs "I think this movie sucks because of X" (claim of opinion))
* A critic makes a statement of opinion but acts as if it's objective argument
* A critic has a selective opinion and proceeds to claim NoTrueScotsman
