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History Headscratchers / StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock

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** Well, look at it logically: If David had been honest about Genesis not working, then Starfleet would never have sent the ''Reliant'' to scout planets. ''Reliant'' would never have found Khan, negating the entire second movie. The scientists at ''Regula 1'' (10 people) would never have been killed, the trainees would have completed their mission without any fatalities, and Spock, Captain Terrell and all the ''Enterprise'' crew and trainees lost in the battles against Khan, including Scotty's nephew (whom the novelization of ''Wrath of Khan'' says was a protege of Saavik and whose death she was greatly affected by), would still be alive. With no Genesis planet to investigate, the ''Grissom'' (crew of 80) would never have been shot down. There would be no 23rd Century UsefulNotes/CubanMissileCrisis over the Genesis explosion that heightened tensions with the Klingons whom the Federation already had a volatile relationship with. That civilian ship (crew of roughly 20) wouldn't have been destroyed, and the ''Enterprise'' would have been retired with dignity (most likely becoming a museum ship) instead of using her SelfDestructMechanism and incinerating in the Genesis atmosphere. Not to mention that David himself wouldn't have died, which wouldn't have left Kirk with a hatred of Klingons that allowed him to be the perfect scapegoat for the conspiracy in Star Trek 6 that nearly caused a galactic war, although there's no way David could have known about those events that happened years later. While a benefit may be that it brought Spock back to life, if Genesis hadn't come around, he wouldn't have died to begin with and if he hadn't died, the crew wouldn't have broken numerous regulations and risked their careers to save him and they wouldn't have gone into exile and gone on trial (although that ended up working out in the end, since it put them in a position to stop the whale probe and be cleared of charges.) That's 3 Starfleet ships and at least 100 lives that would have been spared and several galactic incidents avoided if David had just swallowed his pride and admitted that Genesis was a failure.

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** Well, look at it logically: If David had been honest about Genesis not working, then Starfleet would never have sent the ''Reliant'' to scout planets. ''Reliant'' would never have found Khan, negating the entire second movie. The scientists at ''Regula 1'' (10 people) would never have been killed, the trainees would have completed their mission without any fatalities, incident, and Spock, Captain Terrell and all the ''Enterprise'' crew and trainees lost in the battles against Khan, including Scotty's nephew (whom the novelization of ''Wrath of Khan'' says was a protege of Saavik and whose death she was greatly affected by), would still be alive. With no Genesis planet to investigate, the ''Grissom'' (crew of 80) would never have been shot down. There would be no 23rd Century UsefulNotes/CubanMissileCrisis over the Genesis explosion that heightened tensions with the Klingons whom the Federation already had a volatile relationship with. That civilian ship (crew of roughly 20) wouldn't have been destroyed, and the ''Enterprise'' would have been retired with dignity (most likely becoming a museum ship) instead of using her SelfDestructMechanism and incinerating in the Genesis atmosphere. Not to mention that David himself wouldn't have died, which wouldn't have left Kirk with a hatred of Klingons that allowed him to be the perfect scapegoat for the conspiracy in Star Trek 6 that nearly caused a galactic war, although there's no way David could have known about those events that happened years later. While a benefit may be that it brought Spock back to life, if Genesis hadn't come around, he wouldn't have died to begin with and if he hadn't died, the crew wouldn't have broken numerous regulations and risked their careers to save him and they wouldn't have gone into exile and gone on trial (although that ended up working out in the end, since it put them in a position to stop the whale probe and be cleared of charges.) That's 3 Starfleet ships and at least 100 lives that would have been spared and several galactic incidents avoided if David had just swallowed his pride and admitted that Genesis was a failure.


** Well, look at it logically: If David had been honest about Genesis not working, then Starfleet would never have sent the ''Reliant'' to scout planets. ''Reliant'' would never have found Khan, negating the entire second movie. The scientists at ''Regula 1'' (10 people) would never have been killed, the trainees would have completed their mission without any fatalities, and Spock, Captain Terrell and all the ''Enterprise'' crew and trainees lost in the battles against Khan, including Scotty's nephew, would still be alive. With no Genesis planet to investigate, the ''Grissom'' (crew of 80) would never have been shot down. There would be no 23rd Century UsefulNotes/CubanMissileCrisis over the Genesis explosion that heightened tensions with the Klingons whom the Federation already had a volatile relationship with. That civilian ship (crew of roughly 20) wouldn't have been destroyed, and the ''Enterprise'' would have been retired with dignity (most likely becoming a museum ship) instead of using her SelfDestructMechanism and incinerating in the Genesis atmosphere. Not to mention that David himself wouldn't have died, which wouldn't have left Kirk with a hatred of Klingons that allowed him to be the perfect scapegoat for the conspiracy in Star Trek 6 that nearly caused a galactic war, although there's no way David could have known about those events that happened years later. While a benefit may be that it brought Spock back to life, if Genesis hadn't come around, he wouldn't have died to begin with and if he hadn't died, the crew wouldn't have broken numerous regulations and risked their careers to save him and they wouldn't have gone into exile and gone on trial (although that ended up working out in the end, since it put them in a position to stop the whale probe and be cleared of charges.) That's 3 Starfleet ships and at least 100 lives that would have been spared and several galactic incidents avoided if David had just swallowed his pride and admitted that Genesis was a failure.

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** Well, look at it logically: If David had been honest about Genesis not working, then Starfleet would never have sent the ''Reliant'' to scout planets. ''Reliant'' would never have found Khan, negating the entire second movie. The scientists at ''Regula 1'' (10 people) would never have been killed, the trainees would have completed their mission without any fatalities, and Spock, Captain Terrell and all the ''Enterprise'' crew and trainees lost in the battles against Khan, including Scotty's nephew, nephew (whom the novelization of ''Wrath of Khan'' says was a protege of Saavik and whose death she was greatly affected by), would still be alive. With no Genesis planet to investigate, the ''Grissom'' (crew of 80) would never have been shot down. There would be no 23rd Century UsefulNotes/CubanMissileCrisis over the Genesis explosion that heightened tensions with the Klingons whom the Federation already had a volatile relationship with. That civilian ship (crew of roughly 20) wouldn't have been destroyed, and the ''Enterprise'' would have been retired with dignity (most likely becoming a museum ship) instead of using her SelfDestructMechanism and incinerating in the Genesis atmosphere. Not to mention that David himself wouldn't have died, which wouldn't have left Kirk with a hatred of Klingons that allowed him to be the perfect scapegoat for the conspiracy in Star Trek 6 that nearly caused a galactic war, although there's no way David could have known about those events that happened years later. While a benefit may be that it brought Spock back to life, if Genesis hadn't come around, he wouldn't have died to begin with and if he hadn't died, the crew wouldn't have broken numerous regulations and risked their careers to save him and they wouldn't have gone into exile and gone on trial (although that ended up working out in the end, since it put them in a position to stop the whale probe and be cleared of charges.) That's 3 Starfleet ships and at least 100 lives that would have been spared and several galactic incidents avoided if David had just swallowed his pride and admitted that Genesis was a failure.


** "Kirk is undoubtedly already blaming himself for this, and you have to rub it in his face?" Sarek isn't rubbing Kirk's face in anything. He's a Vulcan behaving like a Vulcan. Maybe it's his clumsy attempt at gratitude, or simply a poorly worded attempt to understand these events. At this point, reinstalling Spock's katra hasn't occurred, and is still considered unlikely, so Kirk's losses are astonishing. Also, while we get to see a movie about all that happened, Sarek doesn't have the perfect information we have.

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** "Kirk is undoubtedly already blaming himself for this, and you have to rub it in his face?" Sarek isn't rubbing Kirk's face in anything. He's a Vulcan behaving like a Vulcan. Maybe it's his clumsy attempt at gratitude, or simply a poorly worded attempt to understand these events. At this point, reinstalling Spock's katra hasn't occurred, and is still considered unlikely, so Kirk's losses are astonishing. Also, while we viewers get to see a movie about all that happened, Sarek doesn't have the perfect information we have.

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** "Kirk is undoubtedly already blaming himself for this, and you have to rub it in his face?" Sarek isn't rubbing Kirk's face in anything. He's a Vulcan behaving like a Vulcan. Maybe it's his clumsy attempt at gratitude, or simply a poorly worded attempt to understand these events. At this point, reinstalling Spock's katra hasn't occurred, and is still considered unlikely, so Kirk's losses are astonishing. Also, while we get to see a movie about all that happened, Sarek doesn't have the perfect information we have.

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**** Or more accurately Kirk is silently calling BS on Kruge's big talk of arresting Kirk in the name of Galactic peace and being there because the Klingon's are accusing the Federation of becoming Galactic tyrants using Genesis as an WMD, the story that Kruge sold to most of his crew as the reason they were illegally in Fed space blowing up ships, taking prisoners and killing their own information broker and presumably why he's playing it up over the comms but as he tells Torg and says to keep from the rest of the crew is not true at all he just wants Genesis for himself. So Kirk is correctly assuming Kruge is little better than a terrorist who the Klingon government will disavow if they find out what he's really been doing there. Unfortunately for Kirk, since the entire Klingon crew including Kruge is killed, the Empire takes Kruge's story at his word and nobody is around to say otherwise which is part of why the Empire views him as a war criminal in the later films since it seems like Kirk did in fact commit the crime of False Surrender during a legitimate battle encounter.


[[folder:Mark VI Torpedo > Constitution Class (refit)]]
* Sarek goes to Kirk and explains that he should've returned Spock's body and his katra to Vulcan. Kirk swears on his sacred hairpiece he will. But how does he know Spock's body survived. At that point, all they knew was they shot his torpedo coffin at the newborn planet while AmazingFreakingGrace playing in the [[SpaceisNoisy acoustic vacuum of space]]. The flaming wreckage of the U.S.S. Enterprise burned up in entry but the Mark VI Torpedo carrying Spock was parked with hardly a dent. Are all Mark VI torpedoes designed to safely enter planetary atmospheres and softly land?

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* Sarek goes to Kirk and explains that he should've returned Spock's body and his katra to Vulcan. Kirk swears on his sacred hairpiece he will. But how does he know Spock's body survived. At that point, all they knew was they shot his torpedo coffin at the newborn planet while AmazingFreakingGrace playing in the [[Space is Noisy acoustic vacuum of space]]. The flaming wreckage of the U.S.S. Enterprise burned up in entry but the Mark VI Torpedo carrying Spock was parked with hardly a dent. Are all Mark VI torpedoes designed to safely enter planetary atmospheres and softly land?

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* Sarek goes to Kirk and explains that he should've returned Spock's body and his katra to Vulcan. Kirk swears on his sacred hairpiece he will. But how does he know Spock's body survived. At that point, all they knew was they shot his torpedo coffin at the newborn planet while AmazingFreakingGrace playing in the [[Space is Noisy [[SpaceisNoisy acoustic vacuum of space]]. The flaming wreckage of the U.S.S. Enterprise burned up in entry but the Mark VI Torpedo carrying Spock was parked with hardly a dent. Are all Mark VI torpedoes designed to safely enter planetary atmospheres and softly land?

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[[folder:Mark VI Torpedo > Constitution Class (refit)]]
* Sarek goes to Kirk and explains that he should've returned Spock's body and his katra to Vulcan. Kirk swears on his sacred hairpiece he will. But how does he know Spock's body survived. At that point, all they knew was they shot his torpedo coffin at the newborn planet while AmazingFreakingGrace playing in the [[Space is Noisy acoustic vacuum of space]]. The flaming wreckage of the U.S.S. Enterprise burned up in entry but the Mark VI Torpedo carrying Spock was parked with hardly a dent. Are all Mark VI torpedoes designed to safely enter planetary atmospheres and softly land?

[[folder:Kirk would rather commit Treason that let someone else do something]]
* Kirk goes to Commander, Starfleet to ask to send the Enterprise to pick up Spock's body. Commander, Starfleet denies the request, as sending a old, damaged spaceship into a possible hostile territory which include a top secret planet would be stupid. Kirk decides to throw away his career and steal the ship. Why couldn't he ask the science team already there to pick up the body and return it to Vulcan? Thankfully they didn't do that as the U.S.S. Grissom was destroyed in an apparently legal Act of War, but still Kirk wouldn't have known that at the time.

[[folder:Starfleet Fleet Deployment Makes No Sense]]
* Kirk and his friends steal the U.S.S. Enterprise, an old, soon-to-be decommissioned Federation Heavy Cruiser from Starfleet Headquarters. Commander, Starfleet responds to this Treason by sending the U.S.S. Excelsior, a untested Federation Experimental Prototype after them. Meanwhile, the Federation is testing the newly created planet by sending the U.S.S. Grissom, a Federation Science Vessel, into hostile territory. That composes all the ships that was actively used in this film: an ship that is being retired, a prototype, and a laboratory. Commander, Starfleet sends no other ship to hunt down the renegade Enterprise as it flies through the Federation, and sends no cover to protect the Grissom, who as a science vessel has no chance in a battle. Screw Genesis! Kruge could've taken Earth inside of a day!

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** Who says they speak English? They appear to be doing that when they report back to Kruge, but why would they? Clearly they're speaking Klingon and we hear English as a translation convention. Kruge ''does'' speak English and when he hears the computer speaking he recognises it as a countdown and realises right away what is happening.

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*** Kirk would probably argue that Kurge threw that out the window the moment he murdered a civilian hostage. It was a clear demonstration that the Klingon commander had no intention of honoring his obligation to treat surrendered prisoners with humanity. And given the information he had at the time, Kirk could only assume (correctly) that Kurge had ambushed and destroyed the starship''Grissom'', in Federation territory, ''in peacetime'', while it was engaged in a research mission. Under those circumstances, Kirk's perfidy would probably be seen as a justifiable act of self-defense.

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*** On the other hand, isn't setting the ''Enterprise'' to self-destruct continuing to fight after you've surrendered? It's like raising a white flag and inviting your enemies to approach your headquarters through a minefield.

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[[folder:"What's up with time passing so slowly during that self-destruct countdown??"]]
* If you start a stopwatch when the 1-minute self-destruct countdown begins, you'll get to 1 minute well before the Klingons even get to the bridge and hear the countdown happening. What, did the computer pull a dad joke on the Klingons during part of that countdown? "25,...24 3/4....24 1/2...."

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[[folder: Pon Farr as a teenager?]]
* The resurrected body of Spock goes through Pon Farr when he appears to be a teenager. That seems to be pretty standard for Vulcans... But back in Amok Time, we get to know that Spock - at that point definitely far older than a teenager - hadn't yet married T'Pring, which is usually done during the first Pon Farr, and he says "I'd hoped I would be spared this", which again implies that was his first Pon Farr (else he'd know that he would not be spared that). Meta, they probably didn't want to find an actor who looks like "Leonard Nimoy but 17 years ago" and/or they wanted to tease a Spock x Saavik romance, but in universe? Just "the genesis effect did it"?

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