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* Charlie's death seems to be a serious case of XanatosRoulette on the part of the cult. From the symbol on the pole and what we later learn, she needed to be decapitated by that exact pole. But even if the cult placed the obstacle on the road, and Paimon's possession made Charlie stick her head out the windoe, there was still a lot needed to arrange the accident. Charlie didn't want to go to the party and didn't want to eat the cake until pressured by Annie and Peter respectively. How could the cult have arranged all that? And if they have that much control over events, how did Annie and Steve ever manage to stop them from getting their hands on Peter when he was young?

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* Charlie's death seems to be a serious case of XanatosRoulette on the part of the cult. From the symbol on the pole and what we later learn, she needed to be decapitated by that exact pole. But even if the cult placed the obstacle on the road, and Paimon's possession made Charlie stick her head out the windoe, window at the right/wrong time, there was still a lot needed to arrange the that particular accident. Charlie didn't want to go to the party and didn't want to eat the cake until pressured by Annie and Peter respectively. How could the cult have arranged all that? And if they have that much control over events, how did Annie and Steve ever manage to stop them from getting their hands on Peter when he was young?


* Since Peter was born first, and since [[spoiler: Paimon prefers a male host body]] why did they use Charlie to begin with?

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* Since Peter was born first, and since [[spoiler: Paimon prefers a male host body]] why did they use Charlie to begin with?with?
** During the group therapy, Annie says that she had cut off all contact with her mother when Peter was born at the urging of Steve, only reconnecting when Charlie was born.
* Charlie gets her allergic reaction at a party in what looks like an urban area, then Peter drives across what looks like the dark empty road to their house far off in the wood, while saying "It's okay Charlie, we're almost at the hospital." How would that road lead to the nearest medical center? And even if he was actually going home, where they had some medication, why NOT go to the nearest medical center which would likely be within the town and much closer.
* Charlie's death seems to be a serious case of XanatosRoulette on the part of the cult. From the symbol on the pole and what we later learn, she needed to be decapitated by that exact pole. But even if the cult placed the obstacle on the road, and Paimon's possession made Charlie stick her head out the windoe, there was still a lot needed to arrange the accident. Charlie didn't want to go to the party and didn't want to eat the cake until pressured by Annie and Peter respectively. How could the cult have arranged all that? And if they have that much control over events, how did Annie and Steve ever manage to stop them from getting their hands on Peter when he was young?

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** The evidence he witnesses aren't much more than parlour tricks in a dark room performed by a mentally unstable women who has just been gifted a bunch of foreign objects. The flame trick can be done with a fake candle and lighter fluid on a timer. The noise could have been something she threw or kicked. The glass is an age-old trick.


** We literally see supernatural stuff happening all over the place with the family, it is pretty clear that there were supernatural shenanigans happening to the family. However, that doesn't have to exclude mental illness from the situation.

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** We literally see supernatural stuff happening all over the place with the family, it is pretty clear that there were supernatural shenanigans happening to the family. However, that doesn't have to exclude mental illness from the situation.situation.
* Since Peter was born first, and since [[spoiler: Paimon prefers a male host body]] why did they use Charlie to begin with?


* There are clear references to mental illness throughout the film, the Grahams even have a history of mental illness, so it makes wonder: is the entire movie an allegory to mental illness? Or is it there just to set up some psychological horror? Or were the “mental illness” in the family just a manifestation of Paimon in previous generations?

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* There are clear references to mental illness throughout the film, the Grahams even have a history of mental illness, so it makes wonder: is the entire movie an allegory to mental illness? Or is it there just to set up some psychological horror? Or were the “mental illness” in the family just a manifestation of Paimon in previous generations?generations?
** We literally see supernatural stuff happening all over the place with the family, it is pretty clear that there were supernatural shenanigans happening to the family. However, that doesn't have to exclude mental illness from the situation.


* There are clear references to mental illness throughout the film, the Grahams even have a history of mental illness, so it makes wonder: is the entire movie an allegory to mental illness? Or is it there just to set up some psychological horror? Or were the “mental illness” in the family just an early manifestation of Paimon?

to:

* There are clear references to mental illness throughout the film, the Grahams even have a history of mental illness, so it makes wonder: is the entire movie an allegory to mental illness? Or is it there just to set up some psychological horror? Or were the “mental illness” in the family just an early a manifestation of Paimon?Paimon in previous generations?


** I would chalk it up to a combination of WeirdnessCensor; and of his tendency to avoid processing the conflicts in his family, to try to remain their OnlySaneMan.

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** I would chalk it up to a combination of WeirdnessCensor; and of his tendency to avoid processing the conflicts in his family, to try to remain their OnlySaneMan.OnlySaneMan.
*There are clear references to mental illness throughout the film, the Grahams even have a history of mental illness, so it makes wonder: is the entire movie an allegory to mental illness? Or is it there just to set up some psychological horror? Or were the “mental illness” in the family just an early manifestation of Paimon?


* Why was Steve still skeptical after the seance? He saw the glass move by itself, heard the glass behind them break, and saw the candle relight itself in a pillar of flame. After witnessing 3 clearly supernatural things, he should probably be a bit less dismissive when Annie asks him to burn the sketchbook.

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* Why was Steve still skeptical after the seance? He saw the glass move by itself, heard the glass behind them break, and saw the candle relight itself in a pillar of flame. After witnessing 3 clearly supernatural things, he should probably be a bit less dismissive when Annie asks him to burn the sketchbook.sketchbook.
** I would chalk it up to a combination of WeirdnessCensor; and of his tendency to avoid processing the conflicts in his family, to try to remain their OnlySaneMan.


* Was Charlie aware of the plan? We're led to believe she's been groomed by her much-loved grandmother, and it would explain some of her creepiness, especially towards Annie and Peter. Did she have any agency in the decision?

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* Was Charlie aware of the plan? We're led to believe she's been groomed by her much-loved grandmother, and it would explain some of her creepiness, especially towards Annie and Peter. Did she have any agency in the decision?decision?
* Why was Steve still skeptical after the seance? He saw the glass move by itself, heard the glass behind them break, and saw the candle relight itself in a pillar of flame. After witnessing 3 clearly supernatural things, he should probably be a bit less dismissive when Annie asks him to burn the sketchbook.

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** If that really was Paimon in Peter's body during the end, the guy seemed quite confused about what was going on, and it is telling that Joan is actually explaining the situation to him. Perhaps being a King of Hell means is quite a busy deal, and he can't keep up with absolutely everything his followers are doing.

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** Typically in Goetic magic, you're not working with a demon, you're trying to trap it. It can be reasonably assumed that Paimon has no clue what in the home is going on.


** There's no clear rules regarding how Paimon's will is exerted, but this troper assumed all the physically supernatural events (i.e. The writing on the chalkboard, the moving glasses, Steven's immolation) were all caused by Paimon, with direction from the cultists.

to:

** There's no clear rules regarding how Paimon's will is exerted, but this troper I assumed all the physically supernatural events (i.e. The writing on the chalkboard, the moving glasses, Steven's immolation) were all caused by Paimon, with direction from the cultists.

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***OP here. On a second viewing, you're right. It is Joan. I guess the creepy echo on "Hey..." freaked me out and it sounded enough like Annie I didn't question things. Not to mention on your first viewing you're basically recovering from being smacked in the face with a brick so you have no idea what's happening.


** There's no clear rules regarding how Paimon's will is exerted, but this troper assumed all the physically supernatural events (i.e. The writing on the chalkboard, the moving glasses, Steven's immolation) were all caused by Paimon, with direction from the cultists.

to:

** There's no clear rules regarding how Paimon's will is exerted, but this troper assumed all the physically supernatural events (i.e. The writing on the chalkboard, the moving glasses, Steven's immolation) were all caused by Paimon, with direction from the cultists.cultists.
* Was Charlie aware of the plan? We're led to believe she's been groomed by her much-loved grandmother, and it would explain some of her creepiness, especially towards Annie and Peter. Did she have any agency in the decision?

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