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* OK, this may sound like being purist, but, when in Discworld/{{Carpe Jugulum}} Agnes asks Vlad whether vampirism is a "pyramid selling system", is she referring to the one selling included, or just a Ponzi scheme? I guess the latter from the context but I'm not sure...

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* OK, this may sound like being purist, but, when in Discworld/{{Carpe Jugulum}} Agnes asks Vlad whether vampirism is a "pyramid selling system", is she referring to the one selling included, or just a Ponzi scheme? I guess the latter from the context but I'm not sure...



* Continuity snarl here: Mightily Oats uses a double headed axe to kill Count de Magpyr. The Count has been established as having trained himself and his family in recognising holy symbols, and (just prior to his decapitation at Oats' hands) claims that an axe isn't a holy symbol. Discworld/ReaperMan has a scene when the recently undead Windle Poons is being threatened with holy symbols by the rest of the Unseen University faculty, including "the Double-Headed Axe of Io". Ok, it's not an ''Omnian'' holy symbol, but holy nonetheless.

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* Continuity snarl here: Mightily Oats uses a double headed axe to kill Count de Magpyr. The Count has been established as having trained himself and his family in recognising holy symbols, and (just prior to his decapitation at Oats' hands) claims that an axe isn't a holy symbol. Discworld/ReaperMan Literature/ReaperMan has a scene when the recently undead Windle Poons is being threatened with holy symbols by the rest of the Unseen University faculty, including "the Double-Headed Axe of Io". Ok, it's not an ''Omnian'' holy symbol, but holy nonetheless.



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** Hypothetically, a tithing system of obtaining blood ''could'' work if it was set up properly. For instance, if the person was of an appropriate age of consent, as it were, the person was in good health, and certainly not sick or pregnant or about to travel, that the blood tithe was part of the taxes required to live in the area, and that there was a noticeable benefit, as in those bandits that try to rob and kill folk find themselves being captured, brought to the town square, and being forced to make a choice: face justice at the hands of the villagers and then drained of blood, be executed by the vampires and then drained of blood, or repaid/maintain the roads, collect proper tolls, go after other bandits not in service to the vampires, and pay a small tithe of blood every so often.



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** "Merciless persecution" is '''seriously''' overselling what the Phoenix does. Unlike the Omnians, it wasn't going around and rounding up anyone it suspected of being a vampire and torturing and killing them regardless of whether it was true or not. All it ''actually'' does is burn a bunch of thoroughly evil bastards who had killed a Phoenix already and were looking to kill it, too.


* The Magpyrs weren’t rulers, and it wasn’t taxation. It was them gathering up a community of people to feed on, and forcing them to go through with it with no appeals or salvation. Granny described the situation as “accepting the cannibal because he’s got a knife and fork”, and her forte is dealing with progressive villains who are only exploiting their niceness/sophistication to make things easier for themselves, which the Magpyrs were doing. While the old count knew he was a vampire, he never created a community of meat specifically for feeding; it's a difference of degrees of evil, not different kinds of evil.

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* ** The Magpyrs weren’t rulers, and it wasn’t taxation. It was them gathering up a community of people to feed on, and forcing them to go through with it with no appeals or salvation. Granny described the situation as “accepting the cannibal because he’s got a knife and fork”, and her forte is dealing with progressive villains who are only exploiting their niceness/sophistication to make things easier for themselves, which the Magpyrs were doing. While the old count knew he was a vampire, he never created a community of meat specifically for feeding; it's a difference of degrees of evil, not different kinds of evil.



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* The Magpyrs weren’t rulers, and it wasn’t taxation. It was them gathering up a community of people to feed on, and forcing them to go through with it with no appeals or salvation. Granny described the situation as “accepting the cannibal because he’s got a knife and fork”, and her forte is dealing with progressive villains who are only exploiting their niceness/sophistication to make things easier for themselves, which the Magpyrs were doing. While the old count knew he was a vampire, he never created a community of meat specifically for feeding; it's a difference of degrees of evil, not different kinds of evil.


** Granny does say she tends to bluff with a weak hand. This troper took that to mean the count knew the axe was a holy symbol, or at least would work on him, but was trying to convince Oats it wouldn't.

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** Granny does say she tends to bluff with a weak hand. This troper took that to mean the count Count knew the axe was a holy symbol, or at least would work on him, but was trying to convince Oats it wouldn't.



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** Granny does say she tends to bluff with a weak hand. This troper took that to mean the count knew the axe was a holy symbol, or at least would work on him, but was trying to convince Oats it wouldn't.



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** Even if we do accept the 'taxation' parallel, this is pretty clearly a case of taxation without representation. No one elected Magpyr or his cronies to any kind of official position, no one gave them any right or authority or mandate to demand any kind of 'tax' from the people, they just basically showed up one day and forced everyone to participate in this charade where they basically get free blood without giving anything back, and forcing them to like it as well.




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** Also, in addition to the above it's a lot easier to take a more neutral approach to someone's antagonism towards someone else when you're not on the receiving end of it. Nanny and Granny as witches, so it stands to reason that they'd take a person or entity's hatred towards witches a lot more personally than they would a different person or entity's hatred to another group they aren't affiliated with.



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** The Magpyrs didn't actually ''stop'' viciously killing people once Escrow was established. Nor did they make efforts to prevent humans being jerks to each other or make life easier for humans in any way. They were also always there, as oppressive authorities, whereas the Old Count just turned up every few decades for a few months as a villainous beastie. Different degrees of terror.



* The phoenix's anti-evil flame. A great deal is made about how the early Omnian church would burn witches (or "old ladies who disagreed") and how Nanny Ogg (and Granny, to some extent) antagonizes Oats because of that. But Granny has no problem at all letting a third party --again, the phoenix-- arbitrarily decide what is good and what is evil, and ruthlessly chase and burn the latter to ashes. While she DOES see things in shades of [[BlackAndWhiteMorality black and white-that-might've-gotten-dirty]], the phoenix's merciless persecution of the vampyres sounds just as bad as what the pre-Brutha Omnians did. And if the bird doesn't tolerate evil, does that mean the Old Count (which it spared) is the "dirty-white" kind of good instead of evil?

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* The phoenix's anti-evil flame. A great deal is made about how the early Omnian church would burn witches (or "old ladies who disagreed") and how Nanny Ogg (and Granny, to some extent) antagonizes Oats because of that. But Granny has no problem at all letting a third party --again, -- again, the phoenix-- phoenix -- arbitrarily decide what is good and what is evil, and ruthlessly chase and burn the latter to ashes. While she DOES see things in shades of [[BlackAndWhiteMorality black and white-that-might've-gotten-dirty]], the phoenix's merciless persecution of the vampyres sounds just as bad as what the pre-Brutha Omnians did. And if the bird doesn't tolerate evil, does that mean the Old Count (which it spared) is the "dirty-white" kind of good instead of evil?




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** The Magpyrs did kill at least one phoenix. It may have just recognised a threat in them and not in the Old Count.


** Because it isn't a matter of taxation. Its offencive on a phylosophical level. The logic behind taxation is "society (police, roads etc) needs paying for, everyone chips in". Taxes are, more or less, a way of adding to the common good of the country (in theory anyway, politics being what they are). The logic behind this is "I want a reliable source of food." No matter what the rules are it turns people into animals and what's more expects them to like it.

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** Because it isn't a matter of taxation. Its offencive It's offensive on a phylosophical philosophical level. The logic behind taxation is "society (police, roads etc) needs paying for, everyone chips in". Taxes are, more or less, a way of adding to the common good of the country (in theory anyway, politics being what they are). The logic behind this is "I want a reliable source of food." No matter what the rules are it turns people into animals and what's more expects them to like it.


* When the Vampires gathered the villagers to collect blood did drain the people completely or just take a pint or so? Honestly,if it's the latter I can't say it's so horrible. That's assuming it's limited to the healthy in general and non-nursing women in particular along side with a once every two months restriction. At that point it just becomes an alternate form of taxation, a bit gruesome but perhaps acceptable if you're a good ruler.

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* New entries on the bottom.

[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder:Draining amount]]

*
When the Vampires gathered the villagers to collect blood did drain the people completely or just take a pint or so? Honestly,if Honestly, if it's the latter I can't say it's so horrible. That's assuming it's limited to the healthy in general and non-nursing women in particular along side with a once every two months restriction. At that point it just becomes an alternate form of taxation, a bit gruesome but perhaps acceptable if you're a good ruler.



*** But the people were perfectly willing to restore the old Count to power despite the fact that he actually *killed* people for their blood as opposed to just draining draining limited amounts from them, I;d say that's much worse.
**** Yeah, but at least it wasn't expected that they ''like'' it, and he didn't pretend it was for their own good. The old count made it a dramatic adventure where someone got to be a hero at the end (and he didn't actually kill his victims either, going by comments the characters make), but what Magpyr did was treat them like cattle.
* OK, this may sound like being purist, but, when in Discworld/{{Carpe Jugulum}} Agnes asks Vlad wheter vampirism is a "pyramid selling system", is she reffering to the one selling included, or just a Ponzi scheme? I guess the latter from the context but I'm not sure...

to:

*** ** But the people were perfectly willing to restore the old Count to power despite the fact that he actually *killed* people for their blood as opposed to just draining draining limited amounts from them, I;d say that's much worse.
**** ** Yeah, but at least it wasn't expected that they ''like'' it, and he didn't pretend it was for their own good. The old count made it a dramatic adventure where someone got to be a hero at the end (and he didn't actually kill his victims either, going by comments the characters make), but what Magpyr did was treat them like cattle.
*
cattle.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Pyramid selling system]]

*
OK, this may sound like being purist, but, when in Discworld/{{Carpe Jugulum}} Agnes asks Vlad wheter whether vampirism is a "pyramid selling system", is she reffering referring to the one selling included, or just a Ponzi scheme? I guess the latter from the context but I'm not sure...




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Double-headed axe]]



*** Huh. I (the troper who wrote the paragraph starting with "*shrug*" near the top of this section) recall that now, and I had imagined it to be a (two-edged) axe with a handle sticking out both the top and bottom of the head. The shape would be like a latin cross with the head as long as the post and the arms as blades. That does make sense, though, especially considering the style of Pratchett's humor.

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*** ** Huh. I (the troper who wrote the paragraph starting with "*shrug*" near the top of this section) recall that now, and I had imagined it to be a (two-edged) axe with a handle sticking out both the top and bottom of the head. The shape would be like a latin cross with the head as long as the post and the arms as blades. That does make sense, though, especially considering the style of Pratchett's humor.




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Anti-evil]]




[[/folder]]

[[folder:Brandy]]



** The implicathion is that he doethn't drink anything that's only a meathly 20 or 30 proof.

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** The implicathion is that he doethn't drink anything that's only a meathly 20 or 30 proof.proof.

[[/folder]]


** So what? I don't like tomatoes but I will put ketchup on my chips.

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** So what? I don't like tomatoes but I will put ketchup on my chips.chips.
** The implicathion is that he doethn't drink anything that's only a meathly 20 or 30 proof.


**** Yeah, but at least it wasn't expected that they ''like'' it, and he didn't pretend it was for their own good. The old count made it a dramatic adventure where someone got to be a hero at the end, but what Magpyr did was treat them like cattle. It was the equivalent of beating a servant and making them thank you for it. The old count wasn't good, but Magpyr was a worse kind of evil.

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**** Yeah, but at least it wasn't expected that they ''like'' it, and he didn't pretend it was for their own good. The old count made it a dramatic adventure where someone got to be a hero at the end, end (and he didn't actually kill his victims either, going by comments the characters make), but what Magpyr did was treat them like cattle. It was the equivalent of beating a servant and making them thank you for it. The old count wasn't good, but Magpyr was a worse kind of evil.cattle.

Added DiffLines:

****Yeah, but at least it wasn't expected that they ''like'' it, and he didn't pretend it was for their own good. The old count made it a dramatic adventure where someone got to be a hero at the end, but what Magpyr did was treat them like cattle. It was the equivalent of beating a servant and making them thank you for it. The old count wasn't good, but Magpyr was a worse kind of evil.

Added DiffLines:

***But the people were perfectly willing to restore the old Count to power despite the fact that he actually *killed* people for their blood as opposed to just draining draining limited amounts from them, I;d say that's much worse.

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