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* Just a minor one, possibly heading into MSTMantra territory: In "Gropos", Gerabaldi, a Chief Warrant Officer, almost hooks up with a Private (an enlisted rank). Generally a relationship between an officer and enlisted would be frowned upon - fraternization between officers and enlisted being seen as disruptive to military order. Yet the Sergeant major doesn't do much besides yell at the Private to get back in line when the two kiss in public. Granted the Private was leaving, and the end of the episode doesn't bode well for her, but still...

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* Just a minor one, possibly heading into MSTMantra MST3KMantra territory: In "Gropos", Gerabaldi, a Chief Warrant Officer, almost hooks up with a Private (an enlisted rank). Generally a relationship between an officer and enlisted would be frowned upon - fraternization between officers and enlisted being seen as disruptive to military order. Yet the Sergeant major doesn't do much besides yell at the Private to get back in line when the two kiss in public. Granted the Private was leaving, and the end of the episode doesn't bode well for her, but still...


** The Rangers only ever made up a small part of the forces used by the Army of Light, and in fact their failure to keep the peace in the fifth season was due in part to them not having the numbers or firepower to intervene in standoffs due to being too spread out trying to be the SpacePolice (and due to Garibaldi evidently not being a good delegator, making himself a single point-of-failure in Sheridan's whole plan to coordinate the Rangers' movements to allow them to keep the peace between the Centauri and everybody else.) That said, the name is common enough in English throughout RealLife history, many pre-dating ''Literature/LordOfTheRings'' (Both British and American forces had Rangers, sort of proto-Special Ops forces expereinced in wilderness warfare and marksmanship, and later on you had the Texas Rangers in the 19th century and the US Army Rangers in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII.) Most likely it just became the human name because it was a good word to describe what they did.

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** The Rangers only ever made up a small part of the forces used by the Army of Light, and in fact their failure to keep the peace in the fifth season was due in part to them not having the numbers or firepower to intervene in standoffs due to being too spread out trying to be the SpacePolice (and due to Garibaldi evidently not being a good delegator, making himself a single point-of-failure in Sheridan's whole plan to coordinate the Rangers' movements to allow them to keep the peace between the Centauri and everybody else.) That said, the name is common enough in English throughout RealLife history, many pre-dating ''Literature/LordOfTheRings'' ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'' (Both British and American forces had Rangers, sort of proto-Special Ops forces expereinced in wilderness warfare and marksmanship, and later on you had the Texas Rangers in the 19th century and the US Army Rangers in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII.) Most likely it just became the human name because it was a good word to describe what they did.



** Hey, it worked for ''Literature/LordOfTheRings''. They had to deal with the main crisis of the series, and then it was time for the Scouring of the Earth Alliance. And the Centauri, when it turned out they had some more time to burn with the PostScriptSeason.

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** Hey, it worked for ''Literature/LordOfTheRings''.''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings''. They had to deal with the main crisis of the series, and then it was time for the Scouring of the Earth Alliance. And the Centauri, when it turned out they had some more time to burn with the PostScriptSeason.

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** They also wanted to make sure the war ended. If they just up and left Earth space, it was probably only a matter of time before the Earth Alliance rebuilt and went after the Minbari, convinced that it was only a matter of time before the Minbari would come back to finish what they started. The Grey Council had to make as certain as possible that Minbari-on-human violence would ''stop'' completely for the foreseeable future.


* The other timeline. As said in the show, it is the future when the protagonists don't manage to [[spoiler: take Babylon 4 back in time to help the Minbari and Vorlons win the last shadow war.]] They act as if the point the timelines branch of is the one when they do it. But wouldn't it actually be [[spoiler: a thousand years before, when Babylon 4 and Valen appear or respectively don't appear?]] What we see about the other timeline is that Garibaldi and Sinclair are on B5 and Sinclair is a commander and later that Ivanova is a commander on this station, there is a captain and the shadows destroy B5. But... [[spoiler:When there was no Valen in that timeline, Minbari culture should be vastly different. There would also be no Delenn, since she is a descendant of Valen. B5 was partially funded by the Minbari and built to prevent something like the Earth-Minbar-War. This war could have taken place, but without Delenn to start it and Sinclair recognizable as Valen to end it, it would have been very different. And of course, when Babylon 4 doesn't go back in time and the Shadows for that reason have no reason to destroy it, what happened to it? When the Minbari don't request Sinclair, why are he and Garibaldi there? The situation is not impossible, but it's a hell of a coincidence.]]

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* The other timeline. As said in the show, it is the future when the protagonists don't manage to [[spoiler: take Babylon 4 back in time to help the Minbari and Vorlons win the last shadow war.]] war. They act as if the point the timelines branch of is the one when they do it. But wouldn't it actually be [[spoiler: a thousand years before, when Babylon 4 and Valen appear or respectively don't appear?]] appear? What we see about the other timeline is that Garibaldi and Sinclair are on B5 and Sinclair is a commander and later that Ivanova is a commander on this station, there is a captain and the shadows destroy B5. But... [[spoiler:When When there was no Valen in that timeline, Minbari culture should be vastly different. There would also be no Delenn, since she is a descendant of Valen. B5 was partially funded by the Minbari and built to prevent something like the Earth-Minbar-War. This war could have taken place, but without Delenn to start it and Sinclair recognizable as Valen to end it, it would have been very different. And of course, when Babylon 4 doesn't go back in time and the Shadows for that reason have no reason to destroy it, what happened to it? When the Minbari don't request Sinclair, why are he and Garibaldi there? The situation is not impossible, but it's a hell of a coincidence.]]



** Diplomacy. The Earth Alliance is not the United States--in fact, they're definitely in the lower half of the galactic pecking order, and recently came out of a war that would have led to their extinction had [[spoiler: Sinclair not been the MessianicArchetype to the Minbari]]. They don't want to start a massive international incident.

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** Diplomacy. The Earth Alliance is not the United States--in fact, they're definitely in the lower half of the galactic pecking order, and recently came out of a war that would have led to their extinction had [[spoiler: Sinclair not been the MessianicArchetype to the Minbari]].Minbari. They don't want to start a massive international incident.



* I like many aspects of ''Babylon 5'', but I found Sheridan and Delenn to be horribly obnoxious. If only the show were just about Londo. On a somewhat related point, the AuthorTract was too much. It hovered around "annoying", drifted into "painful" a few times, and then went straight into the red with that season finale where [[spoiler:you see how a million years later everyone praises how awesome the main characters were.]]

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* I like many aspects of ''Babylon 5'', but I found Sheridan and Delenn to be horribly obnoxious. If only the show were just about Londo. On a somewhat related point, the AuthorTract was too much. It hovered around "annoying", drifted into "painful" a few times, and then went straight into the red with that season finale where [[spoiler:you you see how a million years later everyone praises how awesome the main characters were.]]



*** You forgot at least one, [[spoiler: When the Centauri ship attacked them for sheltering the Narn cruiser. The Centauri were obviously more powerful than most attackers, but even they should of been concerned about retaliation from the Minbari and Vorlons.]]
** Now that you mention it, why [[spoiler: do Earth Force blow it up when they are done? The base had already been stripped, and the only reason given for them to destroy it is to stop it being "a danger to navigation" which is patently ridiculous, since navigation in JumpSpace is completely unaffected by a space station in real space, and the station was intentionally built far away from any occupied planet to make it more easily defensible.]]

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*** You forgot at least one, [[spoiler: When the Centauri ship attacked them for sheltering the Narn cruiser. The Centauri were obviously more powerful than most attackers, but even they should of been concerned about retaliation from the Minbari and Vorlons.]]
Vorlons.
** Now that you mention it, why [[spoiler: do Earth Force blow it up when they are done? The base had already been stripped, and the only reason given for them to destroy it is to stop it being "a danger to navigation" which is patently ridiculous, since navigation in JumpSpace is completely unaffected by a space station in real space, and the station was intentionally built far away from any occupied planet to make it more easily defensible.]]



*** In fact, why doesn't [[spoiler: Garibaldi]] buy it [[spoiler: when it is due to be decommissioned?]]
** [[spoiler: Not enough money? He didn't care that much about the station?]]

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*** In fact, why doesn't [[spoiler: Garibaldi]] Garibaldi buy it [[spoiler: when it is due to be decommissioned?]]
decommissioned?
** [[spoiler: Not enough money? He didn't care that much about the station?]]station?



* Why did JMS need to make bitchy little digs at ''Star Trek'' in interviews and even on the show? Didn't he think B5 could sell itself without trying to drum up some ridiculous feud? Thankfully, Trek's writers didn't take the bait.
** It wasn't "bitchy" at all -- it was good-natured. ''Babylon 5'' and ''Star Trek'' even shared several writers (David Gerrold, DC Fontana, Peter David) and cast members (Walter Koenig [being the most obvious example). All ''Babylon 5'' and ''Star Trek'' ever really had was a friendly rivalry. It was the FanDumb on ''both'' sides who wanted to push things into "feud" territory.
*** "This isn't some deep-space franchise, this station is about something!" Sounds catty to me. JMS also compiled a list of supposed similarities between the shows--he mentioned that both shows have commanding officers whose initials are "J.S." ''Deep Space Nine'''s captain was named Benjamin Sisko.
*** And even then, it's not like he wasn't entitled to a few "bitchy little digs" at Trek. JMS originally tried to sell ''Babylon 5'' to Paramount as early as 1989 and they turned him down. Then lo and behold, just after Warner Bros. announced that they would be producing B5 instead, Paramount announced the development of a stunningly similar series known as ''Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'' and that it would be airing mere weeks before the debut of ''Babylon 5''. Even the most irrational man could be forgiven for thinking that Paramount had plagiarized JMS' original concept.
** That line was actually written by Peter David, too. He didn't seriously think they'd use it.
*** It's not so much the bitchy little digs, it's the two-faced nature that bugs me. Read the Lurker's Guide comments he made, and you'll see him slam and criticize Star Trek and those involved when it serves him, but then offer up praise at other times, like when trying to attract viewers from Trek. He criticized Gene Roddenberry at one moment, then makes him out to be an under-appreciated genius at another (saying that Lady Morella's [who was played by Majel Barrett] comments about how Greatness is never appreciated in it's own time can apply to Roddenberry, after having spent previous years talking about what an asshole he was.) It gives the impression that JMS was saying whatever best benefited him at the moment,
*** From what I've seen JMS was getting annoyed at how people kept compairing B5 to Star Trek when they're nothing alike and critisising him for doing things differently. It seemed a sensitive area to him because 'you can't do things that way because Star Trek did them This way instead' really is a stupid argument to make and he'd get sick of it real fast.
*** What's "two-faced" about criticizing the parts that look like flaws and praising the parts that look like strengths?
*** ^ Indeed. You can think someone's a genius ''and'' an asshole at the same time. And Gene Roddenberry did have some less-than-loveable personality traits. Not get all meta here, but remember Kirk and Company talking about Kahn in Space Seed, and Spock being appalled at their complimentary tone, and Kirk trying explain that they can admire him and be against him at the same time. Same thing. As for the supposed rivalry, there were some tensions between the productions (rumor has it that Majel Barret appearing on B5 was a peace offering of sorts, even potentially an out-of-court settlement to stop a lawsuit against Paramount), but on the whole, the two productions co-existed fairly peacefully. As mentioned, it's mostly the fans who insist that you have to pick a side, and even those are just the vocal minority, most sci-fi fans agree that both shows have their merits (and flaws.)

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* Why did JMS need to make bitchy little digs at ''Star Trek'' in interviews and even on the show? Didn't he think B5 could sell itself without trying to drum up some ridiculous feud? Thankfully, Trek's writers didn't take the bait.
** It wasn't "bitchy" at all -- it was good-natured. ''Babylon 5'' and ''Star Trek'' even shared several writers (David Gerrold, DC Fontana, Peter David) and cast members (Walter Koenig [being the most obvious example). All ''Babylon 5'' and ''Star Trek'' ever really had was a friendly rivalry. It was the FanDumb on ''both'' sides who wanted to push things into "feud" territory.
*** "This isn't some deep-space franchise, this station is about something!" Sounds catty to me. JMS also compiled a list of supposed similarities between the shows--he mentioned that both shows have commanding officers whose initials are "J.S." ''Deep Space Nine'''s captain was named Benjamin Sisko.
*** And even then, it's not like he wasn't entitled to a few "bitchy little digs" at Trek. JMS originally tried to sell ''Babylon 5'' to Paramount as early as 1989 and they turned him down. Then lo and behold, just after Warner Bros. announced that they would be producing B5 instead, Paramount announced the development of a stunningly similar series known as ''Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'' and that it would be airing mere weeks before the debut of ''Babylon 5''. Even the most irrational man could be forgiven for thinking that Paramount had plagiarized JMS' original concept.
** That line was actually written by Peter David, too. He didn't seriously think they'd use it.
*** It's not so much the bitchy little digs, it's the two-faced nature that bugs me. Read the Lurker's Guide comments he made, and you'll see him slam and criticize Star Trek and those involved when it serves him, but then offer up praise at other times, like when trying to attract viewers from Trek. He criticized Gene Roddenberry at one moment, then makes him out to be an under-appreciated genius at another (saying that Lady Morella's [who was played by Majel Barrett] comments about how Greatness is never appreciated in it's own time can apply to Roddenberry, after having spent previous years talking about what an asshole he was.) It gives the impression that JMS was saying whatever best benefited him at the moment,
*** From what I've seen JMS was getting annoyed at how people kept compairing B5 to Star Trek when they're nothing alike and critisising him for doing things differently. It seemed a sensitive area to him because 'you can't do things that way because Star Trek did them This way instead' really is a stupid argument to make and he'd get sick of it real fast.
*** What's "two-faced" about criticizing the parts that look like flaws and praising the parts that look like strengths?
*** ^ Indeed. You can think someone's a genius ''and'' an asshole at the same time. And Gene Roddenberry did have some less-than-loveable personality traits. Not get all meta here, but remember Kirk and Company talking about Kahn in Space Seed, and Spock being appalled at their complimentary tone, and Kirk trying explain that they can admire him and be against him at the same time. Same thing. As for the supposed rivalry, there were some tensions between the productions (rumor has it that Majel Barret appearing on B5 was a peace offering of sorts, even potentially an out-of-court settlement to stop a lawsuit against Paramount), but on the whole, the two productions co-existed fairly peacefully. As mentioned, it's mostly the fans who insist that you have to pick a side, and even those are just the vocal minority, most sci-fi fans agree that both shows have their merits (and flaws.)



** Because the Minbari didn't surrender for military reasons. They surrendered because [[spoiler: they'd just discovered that humans had Minbari souls, and they were violating one of their highest tenets: "Minbari don't kill Minbari."]] This also caused them to realize that they'd been trying to exterminate an entire race in a fit of blood rage. It wasn't just surrender. It was ''penance''.

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** Because the Minbari didn't surrender for military reasons. They surrendered because [[spoiler: they'd just discovered that humans had Minbari souls, and they were violating one of their highest tenets: "Minbari don't kill Minbari."]] " This also caused them to realize that they'd been trying to exterminate an entire race in a fit of blood rage. It wasn't just surrender. It was ''penance''.



* Why do some B5 fans accuse ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' of ripping it of when B5 used quite a few elements from LotR? I'm not criticizing JMS for borrowing elements of other works, lots of great artists do that. I just think it's kinda hypocritical for people to criticize ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine [=DS9=]]]'' for allegedly doing that.
** JMS went to Paramount to pitch the show as early as 1989. They turned him down - and then as soon as B5 was going somewhere, they announced ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine''. It may have been honest coincidence (I certainly think the Dukat/Dukhat thing is one since the two characters are so dissimilar), but it's much sketchier than borrowing from already published fiction that you didn't personally turn down.
** There is that history of JMS pitching it to Paramount, but I never got why some fans implied that because of this, you couldn't be a fan of both shows. While I didn't watch the last seasons of ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine [=DS9=]]]'' regularly, I did enjoy both shows and never really understood the fan war between some portion of both fandoms.
** Because ''Trek'' fans often have the annoying habit of going around and telling people that ''Trek'' invented nearly everything, real or fictional. Common concepts (incorrectly) attributed to ''Trek'' include FTLTravel, TeleportersAndTransporters, [[OurWormholesAreDifferent Wormholes]], {{Nanomachines}} and the cell phone. This can tend to grate on the nerves of people who have broader experience with both real world science and science fiction other than ''Trek''. Thus it is often less about hostility between the ''shows'', and more about tensions between the ''fans''.
** ''Trek'' fans can definitely be annoying, but I think the claims about the show's influence aren't totally baseless. For example, Martin Cooper, who conceived and led the development of the first cell phone, said he based his idea on ''Trek'''s communicators. The show may not have invented all those sci-fi ideas, but I think it did have a significant impact simply by popularizing them. Anyway, my main point was that I think it's ironic that ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' gets accused of ripping off B5 when IMO B5 wasn't especially original to begin with. I think it was original for American TV in its use of story arcs, but IMO the story itself wasn't especially original.
*** so, ''Trek'' was a version of Apple with it's iPods and iPhones... (this coming from a person who's owned a few Palm Pilots, Windows Mobile phones, Android devices, and yes, a couple iPods)
** "Look, G'Kar! We can go round and round about this all night long, figuring out who started what. And it'll take us back 100 years before we're done." both shows borrowed from previous works, but that's not a bad thing, given the existence of this website...
** Mostly it's just FandomRivalry. People tend to get upset when they love Thing A, and you claim Thing B is far and away better, or that Thing A was a shameless ripoff of Thing B. There are definite similarities between B5 and Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine, but not enough to conclusively prove that one ripped off the other (which just adds fuel to the fire. . . "[=DS9=] is a ripoff!" "Nuh-uh!" "Uh-huh!") JMS has made a few spiteful jibes at Trek in general, but most of the rivalry is just among the fans. B5 fans saying that it's a better-told story and Trek was starting to get old hat, Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine fans retorting that B5 stole all of its ideas from earlier Trek, and a sci-fie TV show wouldn't even exist without Trek in the first place, B5 fans retorting that Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine just stole all their plot from B5. . . the above quote actually sums it up perfectly.
* Was [[spoiler: President]] Sheridan supposed to be Earth Alliance's representative to the ISA? He's not shown having much contact with Earth Alliance reps if so. If not, why didn't they appoint one? [[spoiler: (Lockley was assigned to command B5 - but was never shown to have dealings in the ISA council chamber.)]] This could have been done with a throwaway line, i.e. by-the-way, since you're [[spoiler:president of the ISA,]] will you be Earth Alliance's rep?

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* Why do some B5 fans accuse ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' of ripping it of when B5 used quite a few elements from LotR? I'm not criticizing JMS for borrowing elements of other works, lots of great artists do that. I just think it's kinda hypocritical for people to criticize ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine [=DS9=]]]'' for allegedly doing that.
** JMS went to Paramount to pitch the show as early as 1989. They turned him down - and then as soon as B5 was going somewhere, they announced ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine''. It may have been honest coincidence (I certainly think the Dukat/Dukhat thing is one since the two characters are so dissimilar), but it's much sketchier than borrowing from already published fiction that you didn't personally turn down.
** There is that history of JMS pitching it to Paramount, but I never got why some fans implied that because of this, you couldn't be a fan of both shows. While I didn't watch the last seasons of ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine [=DS9=]]]'' regularly, I did enjoy both shows and never really understood the fan war between some portion of both fandoms.
** Because ''Trek'' fans often have the annoying habit of going around and telling people that ''Trek'' invented nearly everything, real or fictional. Common concepts (incorrectly) attributed to ''Trek'' include FTLTravel, TeleportersAndTransporters, [[OurWormholesAreDifferent Wormholes]], {{Nanomachines}} and the cell phone. This can tend to grate on the nerves of people who have broader experience with both real world science and science fiction other than ''Trek''. Thus it is often less about hostility between the ''shows'', and more about tensions between the ''fans''.
** ''Trek'' fans can definitely be annoying, but I think the claims about the show's influence aren't totally baseless. For example, Martin Cooper, who conceived and led the development of the first cell phone, said he based his idea on ''Trek'''s communicators. The show may not have invented all those sci-fi ideas, but I think it did have a significant impact simply by popularizing them. Anyway, my main point was that I think it's ironic that ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' gets accused of ripping off B5 when IMO B5 wasn't especially original to begin with. I think it was original for American TV in its use of story arcs, but IMO the story itself wasn't especially original.
*** so, ''Trek'' was a version of Apple with it's iPods and iPhones... (this coming from a person who's owned a few Palm Pilots, Windows Mobile phones, Android devices, and yes, a couple iPods)
** "Look, G'Kar! We can go round and round about this all night long, figuring out who started what. And it'll take us back 100 years before we're done." both shows borrowed from previous works, but that's not a bad thing, given the existence of this website...
** Mostly it's just FandomRivalry. People tend to get upset when they love Thing A, and you claim Thing B is far and away better, or that Thing A was a shameless ripoff of Thing B. There are definite similarities between B5 and Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine, but not enough to conclusively prove that one ripped off the other (which just adds fuel to the fire. . . "[=DS9=] is a ripoff!" "Nuh-uh!" "Uh-huh!") JMS has made a few spiteful jibes at Trek in general, but most of the rivalry is just among the fans. B5 fans saying that it's a better-told story and Trek was starting to get old hat, Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine fans retorting that B5 stole all of its ideas from earlier Trek, and a sci-fie TV show wouldn't even exist without Trek in the first place, B5 fans retorting that Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine just stole all their plot from B5. . . the above quote actually sums it up perfectly.
* Was [[spoiler: President]] President Sheridan supposed to be Earth Alliance's representative to the ISA? He's not shown having much contact with Earth Alliance reps if so. If not, why didn't they appoint one? [[spoiler: (Lockley was assigned to command B5 - but was never shown to have dealings in the ISA council chamber.)]] ) This could have been done with a throwaway line, i.e. by-the-way, since you're [[spoiler:president president of the ISA,]] ISA, will you be Earth Alliance's rep?

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**** WordOfGod said the sun the Dilgar homeworld orbited went nova after they were forced back to their home system following the war. As to whether or not some group wanted them gone and forced the issue is up for debate, but it doesn't seem the humans had the capabilities of destroying their sun, so presumably that one's not on them.



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*** Michael Garibaldi is not from Mars, he's from New York City (probably Brooklyn, as was Jerry Doyle (rest his soul)). His on-and-off flame who he eventually married, Lise, was from Mars, and he ended up living there while running Edgars Industries, and presumably retired there, but he most certainly wasn't from Mars. Still, agree with you on most points considering personalities.

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**one issue, related to the budget is the filming schedule. I always thought Bruce Boxleitner was mediocre at best, then I watched In The Beginning and he was quite good. The difference, ITB had a longer schedule, meaning more time to rehearse, prepare etc. Occasionally guest actors would show up, people who are very good in other shows and films, but meh here (Davis McCallum for example).


** Been a while since I watched that episode, but maybe Morden and his Associates were the ones who provided the data-crystal containing evidence of Refa's crimes. Londo needed that evidence to disgrace Refa's house but couldn't get it himself so he got Morden to do it. The rest Londo wanted to do personally to satisfy his refined Centauri vengeance.

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** Been a while since I watched that episode, but maybe Morden and his Associates were the ones who provided the data-crystal containing evidence of Refa's crimes. Londo needed that evidence to disgrace Refa's house but couldn't get it himself so he got Morden to do it. The rest Londo [[ThisIsSomethingHesGotToDoHimself wanted to do personally personally]] to satisfy his refined Centauri vengeance.


** Clarke had bigger fish to fry consolidating his power base closer to home, it was shown that [=EarthGov=] and elements thereof were fairly routinely sneaking spies and informants onto the station to keep an eye on what Sheridan was doing. Also, Clarke was firmly in the pocket of the Shadows, who probably wanted to keep traffic open so that they had another window into the nucleus of the enemy headquarters.

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** Clarke had bigger fish to fry consolidating his power base closer to home, it was shown that [=EarthGov=] and elements thereof were fairly routinely sneaking spies and informants onto the station to keep an eye on what Sheridan was doing. Also, Clarke was firmly in the pocket of the Shadows, who probably wanted to keep traffic open so that they had another window into the nucleus of the enemy headquarters.headquarters.
** B5's location means that it is likely on or near many trade routes connecting the different sectors of space. The family could have been officially traveling to the Centauri Republic (something of an ally to the Earth Alliance), for instance. We don't ever see how closely the Earth government does or doesn't examine folks' travel itineraries once they leave Earth space. Further, Clark's control of the government is implied to be pretty tenuous, aside from factions of [=EarthForce=] and the Psi Corps moving in their own separate directions, the Postal Service is explicitly shown to maintain an office on B5 and presumably ships mail back and forth, even if through back channels. There's no reason to assume their version of Customs and Border Patrol is any more consistent in enforcing Clark's policies than literally every other Earther agency we've seen.



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** The burden of responsibility associated with the post is shown when Sheridan is stressing out early on trying to deal with it all. It's only made worse when Garibaldi chats with him about some minor case his men had been working that day, a level of detail Sheridan doesn't even begin to think he can cope with on a station with a quarter of a million residents. Ivanova suggests that the style of management which suited him well on a starship isn't going to be the best approach on Babylon 5.




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\n*** And even the heroes of ''Star Trek'' have made no shortage of morally dubious choices. Bejamin Sisko, TheCaptain on B5's [[Series/DeepSpaceNine rival show]], for one famous example, who willingly did all sorts of bad things, up to and including being an accessory for murder and assassination in order to lure a neutral power into a major war in order to save the Federation. Compare to some of Londo's costlier decisions and his own motives for them. Sometimes folks do terrible things for what (they think and hope) are good reasons. Sometimes it even works out for them, and sometimes it just blows up in their face.


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*** Fun historical note: During the UsefulNotes/SpanishAmericanWar, an American cruiser fired on a Spanish fort in Guam. The Spanish fort sent a messenger out in a boat to apologize for not being equipped to return what they thought was a salute. Take this information and make whatever judgments you wish about the [[ImperialStormtrooperMarksmanshipAcademy competence of American naval gunnery in the 1890s.]]


** If you'd like to see a point of view that downplays the crew's achievements, there is the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA-omGPUwBE "100 years after the Civil War" part of the aforementioned Season 4 finale]]

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** If you'd like to see a point of view that downplays the crew's achievements, there is the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA-omGPUwBE "100 years after the Civil War" part of the aforementioned Season 4 finale]]finale]]. Even then, the dissenting opinion gets the piss taken out of it in the end by Delenn.


** Not to mention the suspicions that [=DS9=] was, to some degree, copied from his original treatment of B5, his outrage at the Star Trek comparisons becomes even more evident.

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** Not to mention the suspicions that [=DS9=] Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine was, to some degree, copied from his original treatment of B5, his outrage at the Star Trek comparisons becomes even more evident.



* Why do some B5 fans accuse ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine [=DS9=]]]'' of ripping it of when B5 used quite a few elements from LotR? I'm not criticizing JMS for borrowing elements of other works, lots of great artists do that. I just think it's kinda hypocritical for people to criticize ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine [=DS9=]]]'' for allegedly doing that.
** JMS went to Paramount to pitch the show as early as 1989. They turned him down - and then as soon as B5 was going somewhere, they announced ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine [=DS9=]]]''. It may have been honest coincidence (I certainly think the Dukat/Dukhat thing is one since the two characters are so dissimilar), but it's much sketchier than borrowing from already published fiction that you didn't personally turn down.

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* Why do some B5 fans accuse ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine [=DS9=]]]'' ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' of ripping it of when B5 used quite a few elements from LotR? I'm not criticizing JMS for borrowing elements of other works, lots of great artists do that. I just think it's kinda hypocritical for people to criticize ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine [=DS9=]]]'' for allegedly doing that.
** JMS went to Paramount to pitch the show as early as 1989. They turned him down - and then as soon as B5 was going somewhere, they announced ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine [=DS9=]]]''.''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine''. It may have been honest coincidence (I certainly think the Dukat/Dukhat thing is one since the two characters are so dissimilar), but it's much sketchier than borrowing from already published fiction that you didn't personally turn down.



** ''Trek'' fans can definitely be annoying, but I think the claims about the show's influence aren't totally baseless. For example, Martin Cooper, who conceived and led the development of the first cell phone, said he based his idea on ''Trek'''s communicators. The show may not have invented all those sci-fi ideas, but I think it did have a significant impact simply by popularizing them. Anyway, my main point was that I think it's ironic that ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine [=DS9=]]]'' gets accused of ripping off B5 when IMO B5 wasn't especially original to begin with. I think it was original for American TV in its use of story arcs, but IMO the story itself wasn't especially original.

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** ''Trek'' fans can definitely be annoying, but I think the claims about the show's influence aren't totally baseless. For example, Martin Cooper, who conceived and led the development of the first cell phone, said he based his idea on ''Trek'''s communicators. The show may not have invented all those sci-fi ideas, but I think it did have a significant impact simply by popularizing them. Anyway, my main point was that I think it's ironic that ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine [=DS9=]]]'' ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' gets accused of ripping off B5 when IMO B5 wasn't especially original to begin with. I think it was original for American TV in its use of story arcs, but IMO the story itself wasn't especially original.



** Mostly it's just FandomRivalry. People tend to get upset when they love Thing A, and you claim Thing B is far and away better, or that Thing A was a shameless ripoff of Thing B. There are definite similarities between B5 and DS9, but not enough to conclusively prove that one ripped off the other (which just adds fuel to the fire. . . "DS9 is a ripoff!" "Nuh-uh!" "Uh-huh!") JMS has made a few spiteful jibes at Trek in general, but most of the rivalry is just among the fans. B5 fans saying that it's a better-told story and Trek was starting to get old hat, DS9 fans retorting that B5 stole all of its ideas from earlier Trek, and a sci-fie TV show wouldn't even exist without Trek in the first place, B5 fans retorting that DS9 just stole all their plot from B5. . . the above quote actually sums it up perfectly.

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** Mostly it's just FandomRivalry. People tend to get upset when they love Thing A, and you claim Thing B is far and away better, or that Thing A was a shameless ripoff of Thing B. There are definite similarities between B5 and DS9, Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine, but not enough to conclusively prove that one ripped off the other (which just adds fuel to the fire. . . "DS9 "[=DS9=] is a ripoff!" "Nuh-uh!" "Uh-huh!") JMS has made a few spiteful jibes at Trek in general, but most of the rivalry is just among the fans. B5 fans saying that it's a better-told story and Trek was starting to get old hat, DS9 Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine fans retorting that B5 stole all of its ideas from earlier Trek, and a sci-fie TV show wouldn't even exist without Trek in the first place, B5 fans retorting that DS9 Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine just stole all their plot from B5. . . the above quote actually sums it up perfectly.


** If you watch carefully among the group of ambassadors and other unspecified workers in the meetings you can see some human extras, so probably one of them is Earth’s ambassador or at least some sort of representative, just doesn’t have a high profile as Sheridan.

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** If you watch carefully among the group of ambassadors and other unspecified workers in the meetings you can see some human extras, extras ([[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JN4nJ5EIJI for example]]), so probably one of them is Earth’s Earth's ambassador or at least some sort of representative, just doesn’t doesn't have a high profile as Sheridan.

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