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-> He means to kill me. The thought was queerly comforting. Death did not frighten Theon Greyjoy. Death would mean an end to pain. "Be done with me, then," he urged the king. "Take off my head off and stick it on a spear. I slew Lord Eddard's sons, I ought to die. But do it quick. He is coming.- Winds of Winter

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-> He "He means to kill me. The thought was queerly comforting. Death did not frighten Theon Greyjoy. Death would mean an end to pain. "Be 'Be done with me, then," then,' he urged the king. "Take 'Take off my head off and stick it on a spear. I slew Lord Eddard's sons, I ought to die. But do it quick. He is coming.- '- Winds of Winter
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* Theon is also suicidal and sought death since he became Reek, he even thinks that Stannis killing him would be a sweet escape, especially from Ramsey. -> He means to kill me. The thought was queerly comforting. Death did not frighten Theon Greyjoy. Death would mean an end to pain. "Be done with me, then," he urged the king. "Take off my head off and stick it on a spear. I slew Lord Eddard's sons, I ought to die. But do it quick. He is coming.- Winds of Winter

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* Theon is also suicidal and sought death since he became Reek, he even thinks that Stannis killing him would be a sweet escape, especially from Ramsey.
-> He means to kill me. The thought was queerly comforting. Death did not frighten Theon Greyjoy. Death would mean an end to pain. "Be done with me, then," he urged the king. "Take off my head off and stick it on a spear. I slew Lord Eddard's sons, I ought to die. But do it quick. He is coming.- Winds of Winter
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* Theon is also suicidal and sought death since he became Reek, he even thinks that Stannis killing him would be a sweet escape, especially from Ramsey.
-> He means to kill me. The thought was queerly comforting. Death did not frighten Theon Greyjoy. Death would mean an end to pain. "Be done with me, then," he urged the king. "Take off my head off and stick it on a spear. I slew Lord Eddard's sons, I ought to die. But do it quick. He is coming.- Winds of Winter

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* Theon is also suicidal and sought death since he became Reek, he even thinks that Stannis killing him would be a sweet escape, especially from Ramsey.
Ramsey. -> He means to kill me. The thought was queerly comforting. Death did not frighten Theon Greyjoy. Death would mean an end to pain. "Be done with me, then," he urged the king. "Take off my head off and stick it on a spear. I slew Lord Eddard's sons, I ought to die. But do it quick. He is coming.- Winds of Winter

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** It probably does exist in Essos – after all, we haven't exactly seen all of Essos so far. It's possible the Faith exists on a small scale in the cosmopolitan Free Cities. Or it may exist in a different form in Essos – for example, a sub-sect that believes in only one of the Seven. Or there's a chance that the remaining believers in Essos were been wiped out due to natural calamities or for political reasons. Alternatively, it could be that all adherents of the Faith left Essos, maybe because of religious persecution, as the above troper points out, or maybe they were just a very small community. There’s also the possibility that the Faith originated in Westeros, i.e. the Andals didn't bring it with them, they developed it only after they came to Westeros.

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** It probably does exist in Essos – after all, we haven't exactly seen all of Essos so far. It's possible the Faith exists on a small scale in the cosmopolitan Free Cities. Or it may exist in a different form in Essos – for example, a sub-sect that believes in only one of the Seven. Or there's a chance that the remaining believers in Essos were been wiped out due to natural calamities or for political reasons. Alternatively, it could be that all adherents of the Faith left Essos, maybe because of religious persecution, as the above troper points out, or maybe they were just a very small community. There’s There's also the possibility that the Faith originated in Westeros, i.e. the Andals didn't bring it with them, they developed it only after they came to Westeros.




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* Theon is also suicidal and sought death since he became Reek, he even thinks that Stannis killing him would be a sweet escape, especially from Ramsey.
-> He means to kill me. The thought was queerly comforting. Death did not frighten Theon Greyjoy. Death would mean an end to pain. "Be done with me, then," he urged the king. "Take off my head off and stick it on a spear. I slew Lord Eddard's sons, I ought to die. But do it quick. He is coming.- Winds of Winter
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* The answer here is probably "Because Mushroom made it all up," but how does Helaena being locked up with her mother in a brothel to get pregnant with a bastard child tally with her being so loved by the smallfolk that they riot upon learning of her death? If anything, it seems like the people of King's Landing would stage a rescue, enact justice on anyone who... um, [[Main/Squick took advantage of the offer]], and kick off the violence even earlier.

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* The answer here is probably "Because Mushroom made it all up," but how does Helaena being locked up with her mother in a brothel to get pregnant with a bastard child tally with her being so loved by the smallfolk that they riot upon learning of her death? If anything, it seems like the people of King's Landing would stage a rescue, enact justice on anyone who... um, [[Main/Squick took advantage of the offer]], offer, and kick off the violence even earlier.
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* The answer here is probably "Because Mushroom made it all up," but how does Helaena being locked up with her mother in a brothel to get pregnant with a bastard child tally with her being so loved by the smallfolk that they riot upon learning of her death? If anything, it seems like the people of King's Landing would stage a rescue, enact justice on anyone who... um, [[Squick took advantage of the offer]], and kick off the violence even earlier.

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* The answer here is probably "Because Mushroom made it all up," but how does Helaena being locked up with her mother in a brothel to get pregnant with a bastard child tally with her being so loved by the smallfolk that they riot upon learning of her death? If anything, it seems like the people of King's Landing would stage a rescue, enact justice on anyone who... um, [[Squick [[Main/Squick took advantage of the offer]], and kick off the violence even earlier.
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[[folder:Please get Queen Helaena Targaryen some therapy, but also...]]
* The answer here is probably "Because Mushroom made it all up," but how does Helaena being locked up with her mother in a brothel to get pregnant with a bastard child tally with her being so loved by the smallfolk that they riot upon learning of her death? If anything, it seems like the people of King's Landing would stage a rescue, enact justice on anyone who... um, [[Squick took advantage of the offer]], and kick off the violence even earlier.
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* Indeed. Remember that for all the propoganda about Dorne resisting the Targaryans, Dorne suffered mightily, with thousands of deaths and all of its infrastructure destroyed, for in the end, no other reason than pride. Torrhen did what would keep his people safe; Dorne didn't do that.
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**This is what we call an acceptable break from reality, and probably one of the best examples of it in any fictional world. Few writers ever depict language realistically on a continental scale. Yes, it makes no sense that the wildlings speak the common tongue, there certainly aren't any TEFL teachers going beyond the wall and educating them, and while there is limited trade between the Watch and the wildlings it isn't nearly widespread enough for the likes of Ygritte to go out of her way to learn it. But it's not just the Wildlings. Westeros is the size of south America, that is enormous. Even with a unified government for three hundred years there should be hundreds of languages. Maybe the masters could set up a system where there is a mostly unified language for the nobility, but there's no way Arya should be able to converse with the likes of Hot Pie. Look at China, a country that has been unified (sort of) for over two thousand years and with modern communication networks and is only now developing a unified language with the government expressly working towards that goal by pushing Mandarin to the forefront. Language in ASOIF makes virtually zero sense. Even for characters in Essos where other languages are known to exist to make the land look foreign, characters have no trouble communicating. Braavos being a city of trade means 100% of the population speak perfect Common Tongue and Sam and Dareon don't need anything translated ever. Dany speaks high Valerian which let's her communicate all the way in Qaarth and Slavers Bay with only minor accent differences when we're talking about an area half the size of Asia. Simply out, language makes no sense in ASOIF, and most fantasy, because it would be hugely limiting in story telling to treat it even remotely realistically.
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*The series perhaps understate just how important and powerful the Tyrells are because they lack their own POV and don't have many imposing characters beyond Olena who is more brash subtle imposing. Looked at objectively the Tyrells are the most powerful realm in the Seven Kingdoms. They have the largest population, the largest army, the best agricultural land, the largest fleet and they house the citadel, giving them, if not direct control, the ability to absolutely cripple the continent's communication network. The Tyrells are really freaking powerful, they just don't toss their weight around. The only thing they lack is a close connection to the royal family which is precisely what they want.
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*Sending Ned up the kingsroad to Castle Black would indeed have been a colossally risky move even with Ned agreeing to cooperate. But we get no indication that was the plan. In all likelihood they would have shipped him to Eastwatch By The Sea.
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* All the talk of genetics can be debunked with one simple face. Jaime Lannister is not the only blond man in Kingslanding. Cersei easily could have been having an affair with a random blond man that wasn't her brother, and that is a far more likely conclusion to the evidence Ned had. The simple fact is that yes, it's a bit of a unrealistic leap in logic for Ned to make, but Martin didn't really have any other choice than for Ned to correctly deduce it because that was the plot and he needed it to be divulged to Ned.

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* All the talk of genetics can be debunked with one simple face.fact. Jaime Lannister is not the only blond man in Kingslanding. Cersei easily could have been having an affair with a random blond man that wasn't her brother, and that is a far more likely conclusion to the evidence Ned had. The simple fact is that yes, it's a bit of a unrealistic leap in logic for Ned to make, but Martin didn't really have any other choice than for Ned to correctly deduce it because that was the plot and he needed it to be divulged to Ned.the audience.
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*All the talk of genetics can be debunked with one simple face. Jaime Lannister is not the only blond man in Kingslanding. Cersei easily could have been having an affair with a random blond man that wasn't her brother, and that is a far more likely conclusion to the evidence Ned had. The simple fact is that yes, it's a bit of a unrealistic leap in logic for Ned to make, but Martin didn't really have any other choice than for Ned to correctly deduce it because that was the plot and he needed it to be divulged to Ned.
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*I think the answer is far simpler than people here are suggesting. Ned simply didn't think he needed to. He had Robert's letter and thought he had the Gold Cloak's loyalty. He didn't expect Little finger/Janos Slynt's betrayal from his perspective he was both morally right and tactically in the advantage. There was no need to personally detain Joffrey too.
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** Some POV are discontinued. So far POVs only ceased to exist if the character died (except Catelyn, a special case). But it may be used to solve this problem. However, as of the end of ADWD, only a few POV are together (so that one could fill in for the other). Arianne (confirmed to appear in TWOW) could fill in for Areo Hotah (who never ...did much anyway), Theon for Asha (if they are still together after what may or may not have happened to Stannis' host). Barristan only got his POV to narrate the story in Mereen after Dany was gone, so he could lose it if she returns soon. Melisandre only had a single chapter anyway, but she will very likely be used to narrate what happened to Jon.

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** Some POV are discontinued. So far POVs [=POVs=] only ceased to exist if the character died (except Catelyn, a special case). But it may be used to solve this problem. However, as of the end of ADWD, only a few POV are together (so that one could fill in for the other). Arianne (confirmed to appear in TWOW) could fill in for Areo Hotah (who never ...did much anyway), Theon for Asha (if they are still together after what may or may not have happened to Stannis' host). Barristan only got his POV to narrate the story in Mereen after Dany was gone, so he could lose it if she returns soon. Melisandre only had a single chapter anyway, but she will very likely be used to narrate what happened to Jon.



** Sam does mention in one of his last POVs in ADWD that while he's still overweight, he's not nearly as fat as he used to be. And people can be fit/in shape while still appearing "fat", which may be the case with Sam.

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** Sam does mention in one of his last POVs [=POVs=] in ADWD that while he's still overweight, he's not nearly as fat as he used to be. And people can be fit/in shape while still appearing "fat", which may be the case with Sam.
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** Information travels slowly in Westeros, it's possible that Torrhen hadn't heard of events such as the fall of Harrenhal and the battle of the Field of Fire when he decided to march south, and his reasoning was that adding himself into the fray would mean striking the Targaryens at their most vulnerable, as they were still fighting on other fronts. After hearing news of the dragons' might, he probably noticed it wasn't that great an idea. He also could definitely not predict that Dorne would successfully fend off the dragons unless he was a greenseer or had one as an advisor, as that hadn't happened yet (and even then, it's likely any such greenseer would have foreseen the Targaryen becoming kings and advised for peace). He calculated his odds, didn't like them, and took the action he thought would be better for himself and his people.
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** House Martell is no more noted a loyalist than the Tyrells or the Hightowers or the Conningtons or the Darrys or the Selmys, all of whom (to the best of my knowledge) fought against Robert and outside of House Darry and House Connington, we don't really much about their power waning in the aftermath of the Rebellion. Robert didn't care about who was loyal to the Targs, just that that specific house was out of the Seven Kingdoms. He, more or less, decided that after Jon Arryn's visit to Dorne to return the bones of Lewyn Martell that he would leave them alone if they left him alone. Recall that most people don't know Doran's true nature and view him as weak and equivocating, which is probably the face he put on in his meeting with Jon Arryn.

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* Just what the hell is wrong with Cersei? In a GOT she was cruel, malicious and overall a Grade-A bitch,but she seemed to be pretty intelligent and competent. Yet by the time of AFFC and ADWD she is making decisions that even a complete novice in politics would hesitate to make,and is so obsessed with Margaery that she can't think about her without feeling that the girl needs to be attended to by a headsman. Doesn't she realize that the moment Margaery dies,she and her offsprings(and likely the whole of House Lannister) is doomed?(Because from what we have seen of Mace Tyrell,I don't think he is one to accept the execution of his daughter quietly,and House Lannister is definitely not strong enough to take on the Reach and win right now).Then we find out that she was planning to have Doran Martell's son killed,which would have dashed all hopes of a Dornish alliance to bits. I realize that Joffrey's and Tywin's deaths made her paranoid,and also that she wants to hog all the power,but these moves seem to be bordering on outright lunacy.

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* Just what the hell is wrong with Cersei? In a GOT she was cruel, malicious and overall a Grade-A bitch,but she seemed to be pretty intelligent and competent. Yet by the time of AFFC and ADWD she is making decisions that even a complete novice in politics would hesitate to make,and make, and is so obsessed with Margaery that she can't think about her without feeling that the girl needs to be attended to by a headsman. Doesn't she realize that the moment Margaery dies,she dies, she and her offsprings(and likely the whole of House Lannister) is doomed?(Because from what we have seen of Mace Tyrell,I Tyrell, I don't think he is one to accept the execution of his daughter quietly,and quietly, and House Lannister is definitely not strong enough to take on the Reach and win right now).Then we find out that she was planning to have Doran Martell's son killed,which killed, which would have dashed all hopes of a Dornish alliance to bits. I realize that Joffrey's and Tywin's deaths made her paranoid,and paranoid, and also that she wants to hog all the power,but power, but these moves seem to be bordering on outright lunacy.


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** Personally, I think everyone is overthinking the whole thing. I think Tywin's endgame was simple: Marry his daughter off to the king (or crown prince) and reap the benefits and power that come with being the father-in-law of the king and grandfather of the future king, in much the same way that Otto Hightower did when his daughter married the king during the Targaryen dynasty.
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** Bran's crow dream in book 1 makes mention of 'the curtain of light at the end of the world' that he sees when he looks into the far North.
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*** That's an interesting thought. Maybe if he his appearance had followed Rhaegar too much, he could have left him with Howland Reed to be raised in relative obscurity.
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** That's actually a valid point. It has been stated a few times that in court, vows taken from the point of a sword are not considered completely binding (I think mainly marriage, bur YMMV). And there is one further bit of evidence to this theory that some of us are forgetting. Before he was killed, Ned lied about this treason charges FOR THIS DAUGHTERS. His final act proved that even a honourable man like Eddard Stark is willing to break his oaths for his family. Had Ned be ALLOWED to take the black, I am sure Yoren, if not a few Lord in the North, whole free him on the pretexts that he escaped. I agree, had Ned taken the black and said the words, not even Ygritte would have him break his vows, but before then, during the travel? I gotta believe Ned would have been the next King in the North....

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** That's actually a valid point. It has been stated a few times that in court, vows taken from the point of a sword are not considered completely binding (I think mainly marriage, bur YMMV). And there is one further bit of evidence to this theory that some of us are forgetting. Before he was killed, Ned lied about this the treason charges FOR THIS HIS DAUGHTERS. His final act proved that even a honourable man like Eddard Stark is willing to break his oaths for his family. Had Ned be ALLOWED to take the black, I am sure Yoren, if not a few Lord in the North, whole free him on the pretexts that he escaped. I agree, had Ned taken the black and said the words, not even Ygritte would have him break his vows, but before then, during the travel? I gotta believe Ned would have been the next King in the North....
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Uncanny Valley is IUEO now and the subjective version has been split; cleaning up misuse and ZCE in the process


* In ''A Game of Thrones'', a group of mostly experienced rangers of the Night's Watch (including officers), find two bodies in the woods in a very strange state of non-decay: their hair pulls out easily and is brittle, their skin is milk-white, they have dried blood on their wounds and even in their veins (these are described as looking like "iron worms" and the blood as black dust.) Oh, and their eyes are blue now although they didn't used to be. But they are not rotting. This group containing experienced fighters and, presumably, hunters (all nobles hunted), notices ''only that last fact'' and stands around saying the men must have been recently killed, rather than being [[UncannyValley royally creeped out by the weird symptoms,]] and it is Samwell Tarly the wimp who shows his smarts by pointing these out, complete with a detailed description of the different stages of blood drying, which he knows from watching his father gut deer. Way to go Samwell and all, but seriously, does George R. R. Martin (who normally gives us so much realism) really believe that only geeks notice things? Hunters and fighters who don't notice things get killed.

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* In ''A Game of Thrones'', a group of mostly experienced rangers of the Night's Watch (including officers), find two bodies in the woods in a very strange state of non-decay: their hair pulls out easily and is brittle, their skin is milk-white, they have dried blood on their wounds and even in their veins (these are described as looking like "iron worms" and the blood as black dust.) Oh, and their eyes are blue now although they didn't used to be. But they are not rotting. This group containing experienced fighters and, presumably, hunters (all nobles hunted), notices ''only that last fact'' and stands around saying the men must have been recently killed, rather than being [[UncannyValley royally creeped out by the weird symptoms,]] symptoms, and it is Samwell Tarly the wimp who shows his smarts by pointing these out, complete with a detailed description of the different stages of blood drying, which he knows from watching his father gut deer. Way to go Samwell and all, but seriously, does George R. R. Martin (who normally gives us so much realism) really believe that only geeks notice things? Hunters and fighters who don't notice things get killed.
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** It's mentioned that he was devoted to his wife (Aegon ruled the kingdom, he ruled Aegon, she ruled him). Further, after he found out about the infidelity of his wife and the past business with his fathers mistress, I can imagine him being a bit bitter on official relations with women, if not still heartbroken. Remarrying purely for power gives conflicts with his other children, who he does love. Still, I'm not convinced myself...

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** It's mentioned that he was devoted to his wife (Aegon (Aerys ruled the kingdom, he ruled Aegon, Aerys, she ruled him). Further, after he found out about the infidelity of his wife and the past business with his fathers mistress, I can imagine him being a bit bitter on official relations with women, if not still heartbroken. Remarrying purely for power gives conflicts with his other children, who he does love. Still, I'm not convinced myself...
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** I think the response directly above this is the most accurate. Note also that Elia Martell was never known as Elia Targaryen, despite House Targaryen being an ancient Valyrian house.

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** The possible answers are: Littlefinger is
a) running a Ponzi scheme, loaning from Iron Bank to pay the Lannisters and the other lords of the realm and the other way around. In circles we go, until the whole thing collapses when Littlefinger accidentally is nowhere near King's Landing or Master of Coin post
b) stealing from the treasury by such means as employing more jailers/gold cloaks than there actually are, all of which are paying him and his cronies part of their salary
c) stealing from the treasury via tourneys, because he owns all inns, eateries, bakeries/ mills and brothels in King's Landing and the area and tourneys are good for his businesses.
d) all of the above.

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** The possible answers are: Littlefinger is
is a) running a Ponzi scheme, loaning from Iron Bank to pay the Lannisters and the other lords of the realm and the other way around. In circles we go, until the whole thing collapses when Littlefinger accidentally is nowhere near King's Landing or Master of Coin post
post b) stealing from the treasury by such means as employing more jailers/gold cloaks than there actually are, all of which are paying him and his cronies part of their salary
salary c) stealing from the treasury via tourneys, because he owns all inns, eateries, bakeries/ mills and brothels in King's Landing and the area and tourneys are good for his businesses.
businesses. d) all of the above.
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** The possible answers are: Littlefinger is
a) running a Ponzi scheme, loaning from Iron Bank to pay the Lannisters and the other lords of the realm and the other way around. In circles we go, until the whole thing collapses when Littlefinger accidentally is nowhere near King's Landing or Master of Coin post
b) stealing from the treasury by such means as employing more jailers/gold cloaks than there actually are, all of which are paying him and his cronies part of their salary
c) stealing from the treasury via tourneys, because he owns all inns, eateries, bakeries/ mills and brothels in King's Landing and the area and tourneys are good for his businesses.
d) all of the above.
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** The "fact" that all magic is gone from the world is a claim made by the Maesters at the Citadel. They are fervent denialists in this fallacy and not even all the Maesters agree to this; take Marwin. Marwin trained Mirri and Qyburn in the magic arts and he is a pursuant of the dark arts himself. If magic was indeed gone from the world, Bloodraven would not have been able to use it to spy during his time as Hand of the King and he would not have been able to use the weirwoods in the cave North of the Wall, nor there would be Wargs and skinchangers. Magic did dwindle, but it was never quite gone as the Maesters claimed.

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** The "fact" that all magic is gone from the world is a claim made by the Maesters at the Citadel. They are fervent denialists in this fallacy and not even all the Maesters agree to this; take Marwin. Marwin Marwyn. Marwyn trained Mirri and Qyburn in the magic arts and he is a pursuant of the dark arts himself. If magic was indeed gone from the world, Bloodraven would not have been able to use it to spy during his time as Hand of the King and he would not have been able to use the weirwoods in the cave North of the Wall, nor there would be Wargs and skinchangers. Magic did dwindle, but it was never quite gone as the Maesters claimed.
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* This a very minor point, but why does Tyrion's scheme to have Myrcella betrothed to Trystane Matrell when Doran Martell has an older son, Quentyn, who (as far as Tyrion knows) is as yet unbethrothed? True, Trystane and Quentyn are better matched in terms of age but that seems to matter little in Westeros, and isn't one step higher in the succession so much better?

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* This a very minor point, but why does Tyrion's scheme to have Myrcella betrothed to Trystane Matrell when Doran Martell has an older son, Quentyn, who (as far as Tyrion knows) is as yet unbethrothed? True, Trystane and Quentyn Myrcella are better matched in terms of age but that seems to matter little in Westeros, and isn't one step higher in the succession so much better?
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** Sam could just be genetically predisposed to being fat. Some people eat healthy and exercise regularly and still remain outwardly fat. It's a societal fallacy that fat people are all unhealthy overeaters.

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