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** Also, keep in mind that Azmodan is used to fighting the Angiris Council. A group who, from what we know, relies on fairly rigid tactics and battle styles. They fight the same way each time, whereas humanity is more unpredictable (relying on more fluid tactics, willing and able to break ranks and reform to suit the situation, etc). It's the same issue that the British Redcoats had in the UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution fighting against American colonists on their home turf. An opponent who, plain and simple, doesn't follow the same rules of engagement because they have absolutely no incentive to do so. Plus, the humans have one ace that Azmodan couldn't account for, the Nephalem. An utterly unpredictable wild card who is able to bulldoze a bloodstained swathe RIGHT through his forces and outmaneuver counterattacks before kicking his front door in and perforating his face.

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** Also, keep in mind that Azmodan is used to fighting the Angiris Council. A group who, from what we know, relies on fairly rigid tactics and battle styles. They fight the same way each time, whereas humanity is more unpredictable (relying on more fluid tactics, willing and able to break ranks and reform to suit the situation, etc). It's the same issue that the British Redcoats had in the UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution fighting against American colonists on their home turf. An opponent who, plain and simple, doesn't follow the same rules of engagement because they have absolutely no incentive to do so. Plus, the humans have one ace that Azmodan couldn't account for, the Nephalem. An utterly unpredictable wild card who is able to bulldoze a bloodstained swathe RIGHT through his forces and outmaneuver counterattacks before kicking his front door in and perforating his face.


** Another possibility for the dissonance between Azmodan's reputation and his performance on the battlefield could be that he is accustomed to fighting in the Eternal Conflict against Angels. Both Angels and Demons are functionally immortal (reforming in one shape or another in the Heavens or Hells) and fight on the Battlefields of Eternity. Azmodan's tactics are based on how to throw nigh-infinite soldiers with no fear of death or pain against similar foes, not fighting limited numbers of death averse mortals holed up in a fortress.
** Also, keep in mind that Azmodan is used to fighting the Angiris Council. A group who, from what we know, relies on fairly rigid tactics and battle styles. They fight the same way each time, whereas humanity is more unpredictable (relying on more fluid tactics, willing and able to break ranks and reform to suit the situation, etc). It's the same issue that the Redcoats had in the Revolutionary war. An opponent who, plain and simple, doesn't folloe the same rules. Plus, the humans have one ace that Azmodan couldn't account for. The Nephalem. An utterly unpredictable wild card who is able to bulldoze a bloodstained swathe RIGHT through his forces and outmaneuver counterattacks before kicking his front door in and perforating his face.
* After Auriel, the aspect of Hope, is captured by Rakanoth (Despair), it saps the optimism not only from the angels, but all the mortals as well. The only ones not affected are the [=PCs=] because they all have Nephalem power and are immune to the effect, Myriam due to her prophecy powers giving her time to prepare, and Shen- who has it for apparently no reason, but does seem to give more evidence to him being a former god.
* The Nephalems have low opinions on Angels, turns out, it's more than just them being unhelpful. After seeing the results of Eternal Conflict, they realize it's fundamentally useless and only leaves destruction. Then it dawns to you that throughout the backstory, the Eternal Conflict was meant to be a contest to see who rules all of creation after Anu and Tathamet were gone. So basically, the Angels and Demons have been playing a tug-o-war to show who's superior and deserves to rule creation, instead of protecting the residents of said creation like humans... and from the look of it, Imperius (the jerk) and Malthael (the gone-crazy) are still all about "We will win the Eternal Conflict!". It's no wonder the Nephalems see Angels like that being no better then Demons: their concern is quite similar to the Demons, obsessed in ruling and conquest instead of protection and preservation, and the only way peace will come is if they abandon the Eternal Conflict.

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** Another possibility for the dissonance between Azmodan's reputation and his performance on the battlefield could be that he is accustomed to fighting in the Eternal Conflict against Angels. Both Angels and Demons are functionally immortal (reforming in one shape or another in the Heavens or Hells) and fight on the Battlefields of Eternity. Azmodan's tactics are based on how to throw nigh-infinite soldiers with no fear of death or pain against similar foes, not fighting limited numbers of death averse death-averse mortals holed up in a fortress.
** Also, keep in mind that Azmodan is used to fighting the Angiris Council. A group who, from what we know, relies on fairly rigid tactics and battle styles. They fight the same way each time, whereas humanity is more unpredictable (relying on more fluid tactics, willing and able to break ranks and reform to suit the situation, etc). It's the same issue that the British Redcoats had in the Revolutionary war. UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution fighting against American colonists on their home turf. An opponent who, plain and simple, doesn't folloe follow the same rules. rules of engagement because they have absolutely no incentive to do so. Plus, the humans have one ace that Azmodan couldn't account for. The for, the Nephalem. An utterly unpredictable wild card who is able to bulldoze a bloodstained swathe RIGHT through his forces and outmaneuver counterattacks before kicking his front door in and perforating his face.
* After Auriel, the aspect of Hope, is captured by Rakanoth (Despair), it saps the optimism not only from the angels, but all the mortals as well. The only ones not affected are the [=PCs=] because they all have Nephalem power and are immune to the effect, Myriam due to her prophecy powers giving her time to prepare, and Shen- who has it the immunity for apparently no reason, but does seem to give more evidence to him being a former god.
* The Nephalems have low opinions on Angels, and it turns out, out that it's more than just them being unhelpful. After seeing the results of Eternal Conflict, they realize it's fundamentally useless and only leaves destruction. Then it dawns to you that throughout the backstory, the Eternal Conflict was meant to be a contest to see who rules all of creation after Anu and Tathamet were gone. So basically, the Angels and Demons have been playing a tug-o-war to show who's superior and deserves to rule creation, instead of protecting the residents of said creation like humans... and from the look of it, Imperius (the jerk) and Malthael (the gone-crazy) are still all about "We will win the Eternal Conflict!". It's no wonder the Nephalems see Angels like that being no better then Demons: their concern is quite similar to the Demons, obsessed in ruling and conquest instead of protection and preservation, and the only way peace will come is if they abandon the Eternal Conflict.


* Azmodan is supposed to be the best commander Hell has ever seen, the equal of Imperius even. So why'd he put in such a poor showing? Because he's a ''battlefield'' commander. He does best when he's personally directing his troops, but against the Nephalem he hid out in Arreat Crater like a pussy and just relied on their overwhelming numbers to try to win, rather than strategy. All things considered, Azmodan did fairly well as a commander--he had laid siege to the fortress, forcing the humans to meet his forces in battle, slowly depleting their manpower while he can always bring in more from Hell. Yes, he tells the Nephalem about the breach in the wall, but only does so AFTER it's happened and his forces have slaughtered almost everyone inside till they reach the hub floor where the civilians are located. He manages to completely decimate their stocks of provisions through Ghom, which would've broken the siege in short order if not for the Nephalem. Also, though it translates poorly in the game, Leah's journals in Act 3 (which can only be acquired bit by bit as your progress) imply that the entirety of the act is taking days, as she claims that she has had several times of rest inbetween bouts of wrestling with the Black Soulstone, times in which Adria kept an eye on it. It only SEEMS like Azmodan's a terrible commander because the game doesn't really have a noticeable day/night cycle and because the player is a literal One Man Army. And concerning his luring Leah and the others to him (which ultimately lead to his own downfall), while also being bragging to the facet of Diablo within her, is also his gambit at having the Black Soulstone brought to him where he can seize it without too much effort (or so he thought). He COULD crush the fortress and begin scouring all of Sanctuary for the Soulstone, but it is far easier to lure its retainers to him. Remember, he is the Lord of Sin, which includes the sin of Sloth.

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* Azmodan is supposed to be the best commander Hell has ever seen, the equal of Imperius even. So why'd he put in such a poor showing? Because he's a ''battlefield'' commander. He does best when he's personally directing his troops, but against the Nephalem he hid out in Arreat Crater like a pussy and just relied on their overwhelming numbers to try to win, rather than strategy. All things considered, Azmodan did fairly well as a commander--he had laid siege to the fortress, forcing the humans to meet his forces in battle, slowly depleting their manpower while he can always bring in more from Hell. Yes, he tells the Nephalem about the breach in the wall, but only does so AFTER it's happened and his forces have slaughtered almost everyone inside till they reach reached the hub floor where the civilians are located.located, which is the sin of Pride. He manages to completely decimate their stocks of provisions through Ghom, which would've broken the siege in short order if not for the Nephalem. Also, though it translates poorly in the game, Leah's journals in Act 3 III (which can only be acquired bit by bit as your you progress) imply that the entirety of the act is taking days, as she claims that she has had several times of rest inbetween in between bouts of wrestling with the Black Soulstone, times in which Adria kept an eye on it. It only SEEMS like Azmodan's a terrible commander because the game doesn't really have a noticeable day/night cycle and because the player is a literal One Man Army.OneManArmy. And concerning his luring Leah and the others to him (which ultimately lead to his own downfall), while also being bragging to the facet of Diablo within her, is also his gambit at having the Black Soulstone brought to him where he can seize it without too much effort (or so he thought). He COULD crush the fortress and begin scouring all of Sanctuary for the Soulstone, but it is far easier to lure its retainers to him. Remember, he is the Lord of Sin, which includes the sin of Sloth.




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* The High Heavens is lead by a commander whose main strategy is LeeroyJenkins on the battlefield and invokes MurderIsTheBestSolution in a setting where DeathIsCheap for the Demon Lords (Imperius) while the Burning Hells have a commander who suffers from all seven deadly sins (Azmodan) while suffering from constant infighting among the chain of command (The bickering between the seven evils). No wonder the Eternal Conflict is named as such. Both sides are woefully inept at keeping the advantage in the long term for any meaningful progress to occur. Not surprisingly, this has lead to disillusionment between both sides alike, which will lead to the creation of Sanctuary and humanity.

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** Also, keep in mind that Azmodan is used to fighting the Angiris Council. A group who, from what we know, relies on fairly rigid tactics and battle styles. They fight the same way each time, whereas humanity is more unpredictable (relying on more fluid tactics, willing and able to break ranks and reform to suit the situation, etc). It's the same issue that the Redcoats had in the Revolutionary war. An opponent who, plain and simple, doesn't folloe the same rules. Plus, the humans have one ace that Azmodan couldn't account for. The Nephalem. An utterly unpredictable wild card who is able to bulldoze a bloodstained swathe RIGHT through his forces and outmaneuver counterattacks before kicking his front door in and perforating his face.


* The Nephalems have low opinions on Angels, turns out, it's more than just them being unhelpful. After seeing the results of Eternal Conflict, they realize it's useless and only leaving destruction. Then it dawns to you that throughout the backstory, the Eternal Conflict was meant to be a conflict to see who rules after creation after Anu and Tathamet were gone. So basically, the Angels and Demons have been playing a tug-o-war to show who's superior and deserves to rule creation, instead of protecting them, and from the look of it, Imperius (the jerk) and Malthael (the gone-crazy) are still all about "We will win the Eternal Conflict!". It's no wonder the Nephalems see angels like that being no better: Their concern is quite similar to the demons, obsessed in ruling and conquest instead of protection and preservation, and the only way peace will come is if they abandon the Eternal Conflict.

to:

* The Nephalems have low opinions on Angels, turns out, it's more than just them being unhelpful. After seeing the results of Eternal Conflict, they realize it's fundamentally useless and only leaving leaves destruction. Then it dawns to you that throughout the backstory, the Eternal Conflict was meant to be a conflict contest to see who rules after all of creation after Anu and Tathamet were gone. So basically, the Angels and Demons have been playing a tug-o-war to show who's superior and deserves to rule creation, instead of protecting them, the residents of said creation like humans... and from the look of it, Imperius (the jerk) and Malthael (the gone-crazy) are still all about "We will win the Eternal Conflict!". It's no wonder the Nephalems see angels Angels like that being no better: Their better then Demons: their concern is quite similar to the demons, Demons, obsessed in ruling and conquest instead of protection and preservation, and the only way peace will come is if they abandon the Eternal Conflict.



* How could a male Wizard learn from the Sorceresses?
** The Zann Esu are a clan of exclusively female spellcasters, so how could a male Wizard have learned from them? Simple: He specifically learned from Isendra, a ''rogue'' Sorceress who wouldn't have nearly as many compunctions about taking a male apprentice as other Sorceresses would.

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* How could a male Wizard learn from the Sorceresses?
**
Sorceresses? The Zann Esu are a clan of exclusively female spellcasters, so how could a male Wizard have learned from them? Simple: He Simple; he specifically learned from Isendra, a ''rogue'' Sorceress who wouldn't have nearly as many compunctions about taking a male apprentice as other Sorceresses would.



** Not that it makes it any less horrifying, but that's NOT what he's been doing at all. His journal actually talks about how he's been feeding his human prisoners and a case of in-universe Fridge-Horror from the said prisoners who were starting to realize that they were only getting fed fresh meat AFTER one of them had been dragged away screaming.

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** Not that it makes it any less horrifying, but that's NOT what he's been doing at all. His journal actually talks about how he's been feeding his human prisoners and a case of in-universe Fridge-Horror is delivered from the said prisoners who were starting to realize that they were only getting fed fresh meat AFTER one of them had been dragged away screaming.



** And let's not even get into how BIG the Halls are...literally ''hundreds'' of jail cells and torture devices...just how many people did Leoric's guards drag down here?!
* So, Tyrael destroyed the Worldstone, and Nephalem powers start to return to humans. Possibly, to all humans. And many HumansAreBastards here. Imagine thousands of [[PhysicalGod physical gods]], good, evil, selfish, altruistic, fighting each other, Heaven or Hell... OhCrap doesn't even begin to describe this.

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** And let's not even get into how BIG the Halls are... literally ''hundreds'' of jail cells and torture devices...just devices, with multiple floors delving into the earth. Just how many people did Leoric's guards drag down here?!
* So, Tyrael destroyed the Worldstone, and Nephalem powers start to return to humans. Possibly, to all humans. And many cases of HumansAreBastards here.reside in the world. Imagine thousands of [[PhysicalGod physical gods]], good, evil, selfish, altruistic, fighting each other, Heaven or Hell... OhCrap doesn't even begin to describe this.



* Its stated that the Reapers attacked just about every Human city on Sanctuary, with Malthael using the Black Soul stone to directly steal their souls later. While the Nephalem stopped him Sancutary's population has dropped by a very high margin.
* Tyrael is doing his best to try and get Humans and Angels to work together against Hell. This would already be hard enough, given how Angels dislike anything Demonic, while most Humans believe Angels and Demons to fairy tales. By having an army of angels fly into Sanctuary and begin exterminating everyone in sight Malthael gave Humanity a nightmarish first impression, and bombed Tyrael's efforts into oblivion.

to:

* Its It's stated that the Reapers attacked just about every Human city on Sanctuary, with Malthael using the Black Soul stone to directly steal their souls later. While the Nephalem stopped him as quickly they can, Sancutary's population has dropped by a very high margin.
* Tyrael is doing his best to try and get Humans and Angels to work together against Hell. This would already be hard enough, given how Angels dislike anything Demonic, while most Humans believe Angels and Demons to be fairy tales. By having an army of angels fly into Sanctuary and begin exterminating everyone in sight sight, Malthael gave Humanity a nightmarish first impression, impression of Angels, and bombed Tyrael's diplomatic efforts into oblivion.
oblivion, likely for the rest of humanity's existence.


** The Zann Esu are a clan of exclusively female spellcasters, so how could a male Wizard have learned from them? Simple: He specifically learned from Isendra, a ''rogue'' Sorceress who would have nearly as many compunctions about taking a male apprentice as other Sorceresses would.

to:

** The Zann Esu are a clan of exclusively female spellcasters, so how could a male Wizard have learned from them? Simple: He specifically learned from Isendra, a ''rogue'' Sorceress who would wouldn't have nearly as many compunctions about taking a male apprentice as other Sorceresses would.


** The Zann Esu are a clan of exclusively female spellcasters, so how could a male Wizard have learned from them? Simple: He specifically learned from Isendra, a ''rogue'' Sorceress who would have nearly as many compunctions about taking a male apprentice as other Sorceresses would.

to:

** The Zann Esu are a clan of exclusively female spellcasters, so how could a male Wizard have learned from them? Simple: He specifically learned from Isendra, a ''rogue'' Sorceress who would wouldn't have nearly as many compunctions about taking a male apprentice as other Sorceresses would.



to:

* How could a male Wizard learn from the Sorceresses?
** The Zann Esu are a clan of exclusively female spellcasters, so how could a male Wizard have learned from them? Simple: He specifically learned from Isendra, a ''rogue'' Sorceress who would have nearly as many compunctions about taking a male apprentice as other Sorceresses would.


* After Auriel, the aspect of Hope, is captured by Rakanoth (Despair), it saps the optimism not only from the angels, but all the mortals as well. The only ones not affected are the [=PCs=], Myriam, and Shen- because they all have Nephalem power and are immune to the effect.

to:

* After Auriel, the aspect of Hope, is captured by Rakanoth (Despair), it saps the optimism not only from the angels, but all the mortals as well. The only ones not affected are the [=PCs=], Myriam, and Shen- [=PCs=] because they all have Nephalem power and are immune to the effect.effect, Myriam due to her prophecy powers giving her time to prepare, and Shen- who has it for apparently no reason, but does seem to give more evidence to him being a former god.

Added DiffLines:

** And let's not even get into how BIG the Halls are...literally ''hundreds'' of jail cells and torture devices...just how many people did Leoric's guards drag down here?!


%% This isn't Troper Tales or a forum. Refrain from first person entries, speculation, and "replying" to entries. RepairDontRespond is in effect here as much as any other page.

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%% This isn't Troper Tales or a forum. Refrain from first person entries, speculation, and "replying" to entries. RepairDontRespond Administrivia/RepairDontRespond is in effect here as much as any other page.



to:

* Its stated that the Reapers attacked just about every Human city on Sanctuary, with Malthael using the Black Soul stone to directly steal their souls later. While the Nephalem stopped him Sancutary's population has dropped by a very high margin.
* Tyrael is doing his best to try and get Humans and Angels to work together against Hell. This would already be hard enough, given how Angels dislike anything Demonic, while most Humans believe Angels and Demons to fairy tales. By having an army of angels fly into Sanctuary and begin exterminating everyone in sight Malthael gave Humanity a nightmarish first impression, and bombed Tyrael's efforts into oblivion.


** Not that it makes it any less horrifying, but that's NOT what he's been doing at all. His journal actually talks about how's been feeding his human prisoners and a case of in-universe Fridge-Horror from the said prisoners who were starting to realize that they were only getting fed fresh meat AFTER one of them had been dragged away screaming.

to:

** Not that it makes it any less horrifying, but that's NOT what he's been doing at all. His journal actually talks about how's how he's been feeding his human prisoners and a case of in-universe Fridge-Horror from the said prisoners who were starting to realize that they were only getting fed fresh meat AFTER one of them had been dragged away screaming.


* After Auriel, the aspect of Hope, is captured by Rakanoth (Despair), it saps the optimism not only from the angels, but all the mortals as well. The only ones not affected are the PCs, Myriam, and Shen- because they all have Nephalem power and are immune to the effect.

to:

* After Auriel, the aspect of Hope, is captured by Rakanoth (Despair), it saps the optimism not only from the angels, but all the mortals as well. The only ones not affected are the PCs, [=PCs=], Myriam, and Shen- because they all have Nephalem power and are immune to the effect.


** Discipline recharges ''much'' more slowly than Hatred, not even being rechargable through firing; thus, you need to be conservative with your defensive skills. Losing access to those skills from overuse shows that you lack the ''discipline'' to be careful with them.

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** Discipline recharges ''much'' much more slowly than Hatred, not even being rechargable through firing; thus, you need to be conservative with your defensive skills. Losing access to those skills from overuse shows that you lack the ''discipline'' to be careful with them.

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