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* When [[spoiler: Kid Flash says that 'The Justice Society isn't truly lost', it's kinda accurate; since many of the JSA members are actually in Earth 2, and it's implied that there ae older counterparts still around, if elderly. So there could be a hint to whats to come.]]
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* When [[spoiler: Kid Flash says that 'The Justice Society isn't truly lost', it's kinda accurate; since many of the JSA members are actually in Earth 2, and it's implied that there ae are older counterparts still around, if elderly. So there could be a hint to whats to come.]]
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** ''Watchmen'' was given more weight than strictly necessary by readers and writers alike for starting the so called dark age of comic books where the NinetiesAntiHero reigned supreme. While the story ''was'' a {{deconstruction}}, the dark age was not the intended, much less the only possible response to the deconstruction. Given "New 52" initially started as a conceptual embracing of those dark age responses to ''Watchmen'', that ''Rebirth'' began as an exploration of what could have been done differently, DC's love of heavy handed metaphors and meta plots, these stories are now literally giving more weight than ''Watchmen'' really needs. And given Doctor Manhattan is the only one with superpowers in ''Watchmen'', he is the one who most benefits, the most convenient symbol fro DC Comics struggle to deal with the legacy of Watchmen in particular, not to mention the various "Dark Age" products of Wildstorm and Milestone that DC ending up absorbing.
** Doctor Manhattan has been directly setup as a rival to Superman. And what is Superman better known for than being the IdealHero that Doctor Manhattan is not? Why for NewPowersAsThePlotDemands and for being [[AsStrongAsTheyNeedToBe exactly as strong as needed, no matter how arbitrary his means of getting to be.]] Doctor Manhattan is now benefiting from the same phenomenon as Superman. It was more jarring because it had not been happening to Doctor Manhattan for seventy nine years, but there was a time the way Superman as used in Rebirth would have been just as perplexing to readers.
* Rebirth Doctor Manhattan is a lot less optimistic than expected, given how things ended up for him ''Watchmen''. Well, he's contrasting Superman here, and original Superman was a lot more cynical before his drift into the hope bringing big blue boy scout idealistic hero. Same thing with Manhattan, only it's pessimism rather than cynicism, and the drift is going in the other direction to make their rivalry that much more engaging.
** Doctor Manhattan has been directly setup as a rival to Superman. And what is Superman better known for than being the IdealHero that Doctor Manhattan is not? Why for NewPowersAsThePlotDemands and for being [[AsStrongAsTheyNeedToBe exactly as strong as needed, no matter how arbitrary his means of getting to be.]] Doctor Manhattan is now benefiting from the same phenomenon as Superman. It was more jarring because it had not been happening to Doctor Manhattan for seventy nine years, but there was a time the way Superman as used in Rebirth would have been just as perplexing to readers.
* Rebirth Doctor Manhattan is a lot less optimistic than expected, given how things ended up for him ''Watchmen''. Well, he's contrasting Superman here, and original Superman was a lot more cynical before his drift into the hope bringing big blue boy scout idealistic hero. Same thing with Manhattan, only it's pessimism rather than cynicism, and the drift is going in the other direction to make their rivalry that much more engaging.
to:
** ''Watchmen'' was given more weight than strictly necessary by readers and writers alike for starting the so called dark age of comic books where the NinetiesAntiHero reigned supreme. While the story ''was'' a {{deconstruction}}, the dark age was not the intended, much less the only possible response to the deconstruction.it. Given "New 52" initially started as a conceptual embracing of those dark age responses to ''Watchmen'', that ''Rebirth'' began as an exploration of what could have been done differently, DC's love of heavy handed metaphors and meta plots, these stories are now literally giving more weight than ''Watchmen'' really needs. And given Doctor Manhattan is the only one with superpowers in ''Watchmen'', he is the one who most benefits, this makes him the most convenient symbol fro for DC Comics Comic's struggle to deal with the legacy of Watchmen in particular, not to mention the various "Dark Age" products of Wildstorm and Milestone that DC ending up absorbing.
** Doctor Manhattan has [[spoiler: been directly setup as a rival to Superman. And what is Superman better known for than being the IdealHero that Doctor Manhattan is not? Why for NewPowersAsThePlotDemands and for being [[AsStrongAsTheyNeedToBe exactly as strong as needed, no matter how arbitrary his means of getting to be.]] Doctor Manhattan is now benefiting from the same phenomenon as Superman. It was more jarring because it had not been happening to Doctor Manhattan for seventy nine years, but there was a time the way Superman as used in Rebirth would have been just as perplexing toreaders.
readers.]]
* Rebirth Doctor Manhattan is a lot less optimistic than expected, given how things ended up for him ''Watchmen''.Well, [[spoiler:Well, he's contrasting Superman here, and original Superman was a lot more cynical before his drift into the hope bringing big blue boy scout idealistic hero. Same thing with Manhattan, only it's pessimism rather than cynicism, and the drift is going in the other direction to make their rivalry that much more engaging.
engaging.]]
** Doctor Manhattan has [[spoiler: been directly setup as a rival to Superman. And what is Superman better known for than being the IdealHero that Doctor Manhattan is not? Why for NewPowersAsThePlotDemands and for being [[AsStrongAsTheyNeedToBe exactly as strong as needed, no matter how arbitrary his means of getting to be.]] Doctor Manhattan is now benefiting from the same phenomenon as Superman. It was more jarring because it had not been happening to Doctor Manhattan for seventy nine years, but there was a time the way Superman as used in Rebirth would have been just as perplexing to
* Rebirth Doctor Manhattan is a lot less optimistic than expected, given how things ended up for him ''Watchmen''.
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* Why is Rebirth's Doctor Manhattan so much more powerful than how he was original seen in ''Watchmen''? Especially when ''Doomsday Clock'' is supposed to be a direct sequel to ''Watchmen''? Two reasons.
** ''Watchmen'' was given more weight than strictly necessary by readers and writers alike for starting the so called dark age of comic books where the NinetiesAntiHero reigned supreme. While the story ''was'' a {{deconstruction}}, the dark age was not the intended, much less the only possible response to the deconstruction. Given "New 52" initially started as a conceptual embracing of those dark age responses to ''Watchmen'', that ''Rebirth'' began as an exploration of what could have been done differently, DC's love of heavy handed metaphors and meta plots, these stories are now literally giving more weight than ''Watchmen'' really needs. And given Doctor Manhattan is the only one with superpowers in ''Watchmen'', he is the one who most benefits, the most convenient symbol fro DC Comics struggle to deal with the legacy of Watchmen in particular, not to mention the various "Dark Age" products of Wildstorm and Milestone that DC ending up absorbing.
** Doctor Manhattan has been directly setup as a rival to Superman. And what is Superman better known for than being the IdealHero that Doctor Manhattan is not? Why for NewPowersAsThePlotDemands and for being [[AsStrongAsTheyNeedToBe exactly as strong as needed, no matter how arbitrary his means of getting to be.]] Doctor Manhattan is now benefiting from the same phenomenon as Superman. It was more jarring because it had not been happening to Doctor Manhattan for seventy nine years, but there was a time the way Superman as used in Rebirth would have been just as perplexing to readers.
* Rebirth Doctor Manhattan is a lot less optimistic than expected, given how things ended up for him ''Watchmen''. Well, he's contrasting Superman here, and original Superman was a lot more cynical before his drift into the hope bringing big blue boy scout idealistic hero. Same thing with Manhattan, only it's pessimism rather than cynicism, and the drift is going in the other direction to make their rivalry that much more engaging.
** ''Watchmen'' was given more weight than strictly necessary by readers and writers alike for starting the so called dark age of comic books where the NinetiesAntiHero reigned supreme. While the story ''was'' a {{deconstruction}}, the dark age was not the intended, much less the only possible response to the deconstruction. Given "New 52" initially started as a conceptual embracing of those dark age responses to ''Watchmen'', that ''Rebirth'' began as an exploration of what could have been done differently, DC's love of heavy handed metaphors and meta plots, these stories are now literally giving more weight than ''Watchmen'' really needs. And given Doctor Manhattan is the only one with superpowers in ''Watchmen'', he is the one who most benefits, the most convenient symbol fro DC Comics struggle to deal with the legacy of Watchmen in particular, not to mention the various "Dark Age" products of Wildstorm and Milestone that DC ending up absorbing.
** Doctor Manhattan has been directly setup as a rival to Superman. And what is Superman better known for than being the IdealHero that Doctor Manhattan is not? Why for NewPowersAsThePlotDemands and for being [[AsStrongAsTheyNeedToBe exactly as strong as needed, no matter how arbitrary his means of getting to be.]] Doctor Manhattan is now benefiting from the same phenomenon as Superman. It was more jarring because it had not been happening to Doctor Manhattan for seventy nine years, but there was a time the way Superman as used in Rebirth would have been just as perplexing to readers.
* Rebirth Doctor Manhattan is a lot less optimistic than expected, given how things ended up for him ''Watchmen''. Well, he's contrasting Superman here, and original Superman was a lot more cynical before his drift into the hope bringing big blue boy scout idealistic hero. Same thing with Manhattan, only it's pessimism rather than cynicism, and the drift is going in the other direction to make their rivalry that much more engaging.
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Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
* [[spoiler: Dr. Manhattan's involvement in the New52 may initially seem like CharacterDerailment, since ''Watchmen'' ended with him becoming an optimist, but remember what caused him to become an optimist: his ex-girlfriend Laurie had a father who once tried to rape her mother. Given Manhattan's loose grip on humanity, he probably came to the conclusion that moments of tragedy could give birth to things of beauty. Of course, ''The Darkseid War'' proved that wasn't the case, as the child of two consenting villains wound up becoming another Darkseid.]]
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* [[spoiler: Dr. Manhattan's involvement in the New52 ComicBook/New52 may initially seem like CharacterDerailment, since ''Watchmen'' ended with him becoming an optimist, but remember what caused him to become an optimist: his ex-girlfriend Laurie had a father who once tried to rape her mother. Given Manhattan's loose grip on humanity, he probably came to the conclusion that moments of tragedy could give birth to things of beauty. Of course, ''The Darkseid War'' proved that wasn't the case, as the child of two consenting villains wound up becoming another Darkseid.]]
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* [[spoiler: It isn't the first time Superman was divided into red and blue energies of himself, so "pre-Flashpoint" Superman being the original Superman's Blue energy and New 52 being the original Superman's Red energy makes complete sense. It makes even more sense following the actual RedOniBlueOni trope! It also explains why Lois and Lana became red and blue versions of Superwoman.]]
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* Really think hard about the implications of NeverFoundABody where [[spoiler: Tim Drake]] is concerned. While ''we'' [[DramaticIrony know he's fine]], everyone else thinks he's dead. Meaning [[NightmareFuel the absence of a body implies the drones hit so hard there was]] ''[[NightmareFuel nothing left to bury]]''. ''Yeesh''.
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* Really think hard about the implications of NeverFoundABody NeverFoundTheBody where [[spoiler: Tim Drake]] is concerned. While ''we'' [[DramaticIrony know he's fine]], everyone else thinks he's dead. Meaning [[NightmareFuel the absence of a body implies the drones hit so hard there was]] ''[[NightmareFuel nothing left to bury]]''. ''Yeesh''.
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* Really think hard about the implications of NeverFoundABody where [[spoiler: Tim Drake]] is concerned. While ''we'' [[DramaticIrony know he's fine]], everyone else thinks he's dead. Meaning [[NightmareFuel the absence of a body implies the drones hit so hard there was]] ''[[NightmareFuel nothing left to bury]]''. ''Yeesh''.
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* So, now that [[spoiler: Jacob Kane has been revealed as the leader of the Colony, it's obvious that the Colony had been in development for years, and he even says as much when he tells Kate that her Batwoman training was intended so that she could be a part of it. That means that all the way back during the events of ''Batwoman: Elegy'', Jacob was secretly involved the Colony. The brilliant part is that ''it all makes sense''. Issue #937 of ''Detective Comics'' reveals that the basis for what would become the Colony was already being developed about six months after Kate was kidnapped, and shows that even back then Kate expressed a desire to go into the military, a path Jacob was obviously pleased with. And why not groom his own daughter for a high-level military position? Kate's dismissal from West Point threw a wrench in those plans, and he dropped them for a time. Once Jacob finds out about Kate's first outings as a vigilante, his word choice indicates that he's not a fan of Batman to start with, and when Kate defends her actions by invoking the Bat symbol and what it stands for, there's a beat panel, maybe indicating that Jacob is considering getting Kate back into the Colony, who would've at that time been more explicitly Bat-themed. Kate then goes away for two-to-three years to train, plenty of time for the Colony to begin operations and recruitment. Also, remember that while Kate was inspired by Batman, she didn't try to copy his look when she first started crimefighting. Who designed her suit to look similar to Batman's? Who suggested to her that she wear a Bat-symbol at all? Jacob did. Why didn't he suggest that she join the Colony from the very beginning? Easy: it's a top-secret black project, not something he can just discuss with anyone. Plus, he wanted to get her used to acting as a Bat-vigilante while he completed everything with them, and possibly so he could use his rank to perform a bit of nepotism. The events of ''Elegy'' derailed his plans again due to a rift forming between him and Kate. Also consider that during the last fourteen issues of Batwoman's solo series, Jacob is nowhere to be seen, and Kate even mentions at one point that she hasn't heard from him in weeks. What's he off doing? Working with the Colony.]]
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* So, now that [[spoiler: Jacob Kane has been revealed as the leader of the Colony, it's obvious that the Colony had been in development for years, and he even says as much when he tells Kate that her Batwoman training was intended so that she could be a part of it. That means that all the way back during the events of ''Batwoman: Elegy'', Jacob was secretly involved with the Colony. The brilliant part is that ''it all makes sense''. Issue #937 of ''Detective Comics'' reveals that the basis for what would become the Colony was already being developed about six months after Kate was kidnapped, and shows that even back then Kate expressed a desire to go into the military, a path Jacob was obviously pleased with. And why not groom his own daughter for a high-level military position? Kate's dismissal from West Point threw a wrench in those plans, and he dropped them for a time. Once When Jacob finds out about Kate's first outings as a vigilante, his word choice indicates that he's not a fan of Batman to start with, Batman, and when Kate defends her actions by invoking the Bat symbol and what it stands for, there's a beat panel, maybe indicating that Jacob is considering getting Kate back into the Colony, who would've at that time been more explicitly Bat-themed. Kate then goes away for two-to-three years to train, plenty of time for the Colony to begin operations and recruitment. Also, remember that while Kate was inspired by Batman, she didn't try to copy his look when she first started crimefighting. Who designed her suit to look similar to Batman's? Who suggested to her that she wear a Bat-symbol at all? Jacob did. Why didn't he suggest that she join the Colony from the very beginning? Easy: it's a top-secret black project, not something he can just discuss with anyone. Plus, he wanted to get her used to acting as a Bat-vigilante while he completed everything with them, and possibly so he could use his rank to perform a bit of nepotism. The events of ''Elegy'' derailed his plans again due to a rift forming between him and Kate. Also consider that during the last fourteen issues of Batwoman's solo series, Jacob is nowhere to be seen, and Kate even mentions at one point that she hasn't heard from him in weeks. What's he off doing? Working with the Colony.]]
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* Where are Wally's children, Jai and Iris? They were with him when he was last seen in Convergence: Speed Force. Since then Wally has somehow been lost in the Speed Force (although how he got there after the events of Convergence: Speed Force isn't explained). Are they stuck in the Speed Force? Have they ceased to exist? Has Wally forgotten about them?
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* Where are Wally's children, Jai and Iris? They were with him when he was last seen in Convergence: ''Convergence: Speed Force. Force''. Since then Wally has somehow been lost in the Speed Force (although how he got there after the events of Convergence: ''Convergence: Speed Force Force'' isn't explained). Are they stuck in the Speed Force? Have they ceased to exist? Has Wally forgotten about them?
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** Same with Roy's daughter, Lian. He just got her back in Convergence: Titans, only to have her taken away from him again.
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** Same with Roy's daughter, Lian. He just got her back in Convergence: Titans, ''Convergence: The Titans'', only to have her taken away from him again.
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* [[spoiler: Using Wally West as the POV character. Wally represents everything that DC tried to get rid of with the New 52. He's a legacy character using the same hero identity as his mentor. He was married and a father. He genuinely loves being a superhero and has fun with it. He's also the first of the original Teen Titans to take up his mentor's code name and by far held it the longest. He's also the one who never had any major conflict with his mentor.]]
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Rewriting things a bit based on newer info.
Changed line(s) 10,11 (click to see context) from:
* So, now that [[spoiler: Jacob Kane has been revealed as the leader of the Colony, it's obvious that he had to have been planning this for years, and even says as much when he tells Kate that her Batwoman training was intended so that she could be a part of it. That means that all the way back during the events of ''Batwoman: Elegy'', Jacob was secretly forming the Colony. The brilliant part is that ''it all makes sense''. Once Jacob finds out about Kate's first outings as a vigilante, his word choice indicates that he's not a fan of Batman to start with, and when Kate defends her actions by invoking the Bat symbol and what it stands for, there's a beat panel, maybe indicating the Jacob is starting to imagine the possibility of using Batman's techniques on a military scale. Kate then goes away for two-to-three years to train, plenty of time for Jacob to get the initial plans for the Colony drawn up and even to possibly start some recruitment. His desire for Kate to join him is also hinted at: remember that while Kate was inspired by Batman, she didn't try to copy his look when she first started crimefighting. Who designed her suit to look similar to Batman's? Who suggested to her that she wear a Bat-symbol at all? Jacob did. Why didn't he suggest that she join the Colony from the very beginning? Easy: it wasn't ready yet. Plus, he wanted to get her used to acting as a Bat-vigilante while he completed everything with them. The events of ''Elegy'' derailed his plans due to a rift forming between him and Kate. Also consider that during the last fourteen issues of Batwoman's solo series, Jacob is nowhere to be seen, and Kate even mentions at one point that she hasn't heard from him in weeks. What's he off doing? Finalizing the Colony.]]
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* So, now that [[spoiler: Jacob Kane has been revealed as the leader of the Colony, it's obvious that he the Colony had to have been planning this in development for years, and he even says as much when he tells Kate that her Batwoman training was intended so that she could be a part of it. That means that all the way back during the events of ''Batwoman: Elegy'', Jacob was secretly forming involved the Colony. The brilliant part is that ''it all makes sense''. Issue #937 of ''Detective Comics'' reveals that the basis for what would become the Colony was already being developed about six months after Kate was kidnapped, and shows that even back then Kate expressed a desire to go into the military, a path Jacob was obviously pleased with. And why not groom his own daughter for a high-level military position? Kate's dismissal from West Point threw a wrench in those plans, and he dropped them for a time. Once Jacob finds out about Kate's first outings as a vigilante, his word choice indicates that he's not a fan of Batman to start with, and when Kate defends her actions by invoking the Bat symbol and what it stands for, there's a beat panel, maybe indicating the that Jacob is starting to imagine considering getting Kate back into the possibility of using Batman's techniques on a military scale. Colony, who would've at that time been more explicitly Bat-themed. Kate then goes away for two-to-three years to train, plenty of time for Jacob to get the initial plans for the Colony drawn up to begin operations and even to possibly start some recruitment. His desire for Kate to join him is also hinted at: Also, remember that while Kate was inspired by Batman, she didn't try to copy his look when she first started crimefighting. Who designed her suit to look similar to Batman's? Who suggested to her that she wear a Bat-symbol at all? Jacob did. Why didn't he suggest that she join the Colony from the very beginning? Easy: it wasn't ready yet. it's a top-secret black project, not something he can just discuss with anyone. Plus, he wanted to get her used to acting as a Bat-vigilante while he completed everything with them. them, and possibly so he could use his rank to perform a bit of nepotism. The events of ''Elegy'' derailed his plans again due to a rift forming between him and Kate. Also consider that during the last fourteen issues of Batwoman's solo series, Jacob is nowhere to be seen, and Kate even mentions at one point that she hasn't heard from him in weeks. What's he off doing? Finalizing Working with the Colony.]]
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* [[spoiler: Wally needs to get out of the Speed Force and he is dragged out by someone who is close to him. Reminds one of a certain scene from JusticeLeagueUnlimited...]]
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* [[spoiler: Wally needs to get out of the Speed Force and he is dragged out by someone who is close to him. him]]. Reminds one of a certain scene from JusticeLeagueUnlimited...]]''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague Unlimited''...
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** Same with Roy's daughter, Lian. He just got her back in Convergence: Titans, only to have her taken away from him again.
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* So, now that [[spoiler: Jacob Kane has been revealed as the leader of the Colony, it's obvious that he had to have been planning this for years, and even says as much when he tells Kate that her Batwoman training was intended so that she could be a part of it. That means that all the way back during the events of ''Batwoman: Elegy'', Jacob was secretly forming the Colony. The brilliant part is that ''it all makes sense''. Once Jacob finds out about Kate's first outings as a vigilante, his word choice indicates that he's not a fan of Batman to start with, and when Kate defends her actions by invoking the Bat symbol and what it stands for, there's a beat panel, maybe indicating the Jacob is starting to imagine the possibility of using Batman's techniques on a military scale. Kate then goes away for two-to-three years to train, plenty of time for Jacob to get the initial plans for the Colony drawn up and even to possibly start some recruitment. His desire for Kate to join him is also hinted at: remember that while Kate was inspired by Batman, she didn't try to copy his look when she first started crimefighting. Who designed her suit to look similar to Batman's? Who suggested to her that she wear a Bat-symbol at all? Jacob did. Why didn't he suggest that she join the Colony from the very beginning? Easy: it wasn't ready yet. Plus, he wanted to get her used to acting as a Bat-vigilante while he completed everything with them. The events of ''Elegy'' derailed his plans due to a rift forming between him and Kate. Also consider that during the last fourteen issues of Batwoman's solo series, Jacob is nowhere to be seen, and Kate even mentions at one point that she hasn't heard from him in weeks. What's he off doing? Finalizing the Colony.]]
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** The ending of ''Action Comics'' #958 seems to strongly hint at this, as [[spoiler: Mr. Oz is watching the fight between Superman and Lex Luthor with Doomsday. Doomsday is about to kill Lex, leaving Superman in a position to either let him die through inaction or put himself in mortal danger to save his arch-nemesis. Oz says, "Think, Kal El -- what will you do next? Only then can I make my move." In other words, heroism and self-sacrifice vs. Machiavellian pragmatism and self-preservation. Sound familiar?]]
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* If one realizes something about Lex, it makes sense why he'd want to be more heroic if this version of him is a good guy; he's grown to LIKE The role of a hero over being a villain. Is he an egomaniac still? Yes. But now he is more in-tune with the heroic game because he's been Darkseid once. He likely wants to forget it. Plus Clayface is a hero in Detective Comics and it could be the case with [[spoiler: Cheetah helping Wonder Woman in her comic]], so Rebirth could also be reformation for some of the villains that they had fought.
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* Jonathan [[spoiler:accidentally killing his own cat with heat vision]] is a harsh but potent lesson in ComesGreatResponsibility and [[ThouShaltNotKill the sanctity of life]].
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* [[spoiler: Dr. Manhattan's involvement in the New52 may initially seem like CharacterDerailment, since ''Watchmen'' ended with him becoming an optimist, but remember what caused him to become an optimist: his ex-girlfriend Laurie had a father who once tried to rape her mother. Given Manhattan's loose grip on humanity, he probably came to the conclusion that moments of tragedy could give birth to things of beauty. Of course, ''The Darkseid War'' proved that wasn't the case, as the child of two consenting villains wound up becoming another Darkseid.]]
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Changed line(s) 6,7 (click to see context) from:
* In ''Titans Rebirth'', [[spoiler: Wally just needs to zap his friends with a little Speed Force. While people think this is a DiasExMachina of sorts, it actually makes sense; the Speed Force is a universal force powered by what looks like electricity. All it's doing is zapping their hippocampus with what Wally knows and it helps fill in gaps that Manhattan left behind.]]
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* In ''Titans Rebirth'', [[spoiler: Wally just needs to zap his friends with a little Speed Force. While people think this is a DiasExMachina DeusExMachina of sorts, it actually makes sense; the Speed Force is a universal force powered by what looks like electricity. All it's doing is zapping their hippocampus with what Wally knows and it helps fill in gaps that Manhattan left behind.]]
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* In ''Titans Rebirth'', [[spoiler: Wally just needs to zap his friends with a little Speed Force. While people think this is a DiasExMachina of sorts, it actually makes sense; the Speed Force is a universal force powered by what looks like electricity. All it's doing is zapping their hippocampus with what Wally knows and it helps fill in gaps that Manhattan left behind.]]
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** The "fabric" (for lack of a better word) of the DCU hasn't been completely restored, and there are tons of "who is who" questions stewing. If Wally remains Kid Flash, they'll come down the line.
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Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
** OP here. Wow. [[SincerityMode That breaks my heart]].
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** OP here. Wow. [[SincerityMode That breaks my heart]]. Barry Allen's legacy has been restored (with the return of Wally West), but Wally is an adult. His kids are his legacy. Their absence from Rebirth kind of [[BrokenAesop undermines the point of the story]].
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Fridge Brilliance
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Fridge Horror
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** OP here. Wow. [[SincerityMode That breaks my heart]].
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** OP here. Wow. [[SincerityMode That breaks my heart]].heart]].
----
----
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Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
** I'd guess that it's actually this world's Wally West, since he was established to have been lost whilst with the Teen Titans, with his memories of how things are 'supposed to be' given by the Speedforce. So they wouldn't be with him since they haven't been born yet.
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** I'd guess that it's actually this world's Wally West, since he was established to have been lost whilst with the Teen Titans, with his memories of how things are 'supposed to be' given by the Speedforce. So they wouldn't be with him since they haven't been born yet.yet.
** OP here. Wow. [[SincerityMode That breaks my heart]].
** OP here. Wow. [[SincerityMode That breaks my heart]].
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Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
* Where are Wally's children, Jai and Iris? They were with him when he was last seen in Convergence: Speed Force. Since then Wally has somehow been lost in the Speed Force (although how he got there after the events of Convergence: Speed Force isn't explained). Are they stuck in the Speed Force? Have they ceased to exist? Has Wally forgotten about them?
to:
* Where are Wally's children, Jai and Iris? They were with him when he was last seen in Convergence: Speed Force. Since then Wally has somehow been lost in the Speed Force (although how he got there after the events of Convergence: Speed Force isn't explained). Are they stuck in the Speed Force? Have they ceased to exist? Has Wally forgotten about them?them?
** I'd guess that it's actually this world's Wally West, since he was established to have been lost whilst with the Teen Titans, with his memories of how things are 'supposed to be' given by the Speedforce. So they wouldn't be with him since they haven't been born yet.
** I'd guess that it's actually this world's Wally West, since he was established to have been lost whilst with the Teen Titans, with his memories of how things are 'supposed to be' given by the Speedforce. So they wouldn't be with him since they haven't been born yet.
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Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* When [[spoiler: Kid Flash says that 'The Justice Society isn't truely lost', it's kinda accurate; since many of the JSA members are actually in Earth 2, and it's implied that there ae older counterparts still around, if elderly. So there could be a hint to whats to come.]]
to:
* When [[spoiler: Kid Flash says that 'The Justice Society isn't truely truly lost', it's kinda accurate; since many of the JSA members are actually in Earth 2, and it's implied that there ae older counterparts still around, if elderly. So there could be a hint to whats to come.]]
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* The Reveal that [[spoiler: Dr. Manhattan from the Watchmen is behind the New 52. Why does this make sense? There is a lack of hope. The Watchmen are from a world where super heroes with the powers of Superman does not exist. The costumed heroes are either killed or forced into retirement, the most powerful man is a pessimistic being who has lost all hope, their most intelligent hero turned evil and psychotic, their gadgeteer member is a washed up has-been, and their best investigator is an AxeCrazy sociopath who has lost touch with his old self due to tragedy. These are people who wouldn't get the idea of the main heroes inspiring hope even in the worst of moments, and also shows why the heroes act so different; with Manhattan removing 10 years, he removed certain hope spots that kept the heroes optimistic and mostly looking at the bright side despite tragedy.]]
to:
* The Reveal that [[spoiler: Dr. Manhattan from the Watchmen is behind the New 52. Why does this make sense? There is a lack of hope. The Watchmen are from a world where super heroes with the powers of Superman does not exist. The costumed heroes are either killed or forced into retirement, the most powerful man is a pessimistic being who has lost all hope, their most intelligent hero turned evil and psychotic, their gadgeteer member is a washed up has-been, and their best investigator is an AxeCrazy sociopath who has lost touch with his old self due to tragedy. These are people who wouldn't get the idea of the main heroes inspiring hope even in the worst of moments, and also shows why the heroes act so different; with Manhattan removing 10 years, he removed certain hope spots that kept the heroes optimistic and mostly looking at the bright side despite tragedy.]]]]
Fridge Horror
*Where are Wally's children, Jai and Iris? They were with him when he was last seen in Convergence: Speed Force. Since then Wally has somehow been lost in the Speed Force (although how he got there after the events of Convergence: Speed Force isn't explained). Are they stuck in the Speed Force? Have they ceased to exist? Has Wally forgotten about them?
Fridge Horror
*Where are Wally's children, Jai and Iris? They were with him when he was last seen in Convergence: Speed Force. Since then Wally has somehow been lost in the Speed Force (although how he got there after the events of Convergence: Speed Force isn't explained). Are they stuck in the Speed Force? Have they ceased to exist? Has Wally forgotten about them?
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Added DiffLines:
Fridge Brilliance
* When [[spoiler: Kid Flash says that 'The Justice Society isn't truely lost', it's kinda accurate; since many of the JSA members are actually in Earth 2, and it's implied that there ae older counterparts still around, if elderly. So there could be a hint to whats to come.]]
* [[spoiler: Wally needs to get out of the Speed Force and he is dragged out by someone who is close to him. Reminds one of a certain scene from JusticeLeagueUnlimited...]]
* The Reveal that [[spoiler: Dr. Manhattan from the Watchmen is behind the New 52. Why does this make sense? There is a lack of hope. The Watchmen are from a world where super heroes with the powers of Superman does not exist. The costumed heroes are either killed or forced into retirement, the most powerful man is a pessimistic being who has lost all hope, their most intelligent hero turned evil and psychotic, their gadgeteer member is a washed up has-been, and their best investigator is an AxeCrazy sociopath who has lost touch with his old self due to tragedy. These are people who wouldn't get the idea of the main heroes inspiring hope even in the worst of moments, and also shows why the heroes act so different; with Manhattan removing 10 years, he removed certain hope spots that kept the heroes optimistic and mostly looking at the bright side despite tragedy.]]
* When [[spoiler: Kid Flash says that 'The Justice Society isn't truely lost', it's kinda accurate; since many of the JSA members are actually in Earth 2, and it's implied that there ae older counterparts still around, if elderly. So there could be a hint to whats to come.]]
* [[spoiler: Wally needs to get out of the Speed Force and he is dragged out by someone who is close to him. Reminds one of a certain scene from JusticeLeagueUnlimited...]]
* The Reveal that [[spoiler: Dr. Manhattan from the Watchmen is behind the New 52. Why does this make sense? There is a lack of hope. The Watchmen are from a world where super heroes with the powers of Superman does not exist. The costumed heroes are either killed or forced into retirement, the most powerful man is a pessimistic being who has lost all hope, their most intelligent hero turned evil and psychotic, their gadgeteer member is a washed up has-been, and their best investigator is an AxeCrazy sociopath who has lost touch with his old self due to tragedy. These are people who wouldn't get the idea of the main heroes inspiring hope even in the worst of moments, and also shows why the heroes act so different; with Manhattan removing 10 years, he removed certain hope spots that kept the heroes optimistic and mostly looking at the bright side despite tragedy.]]
