This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Steel Beast 6 Beets: Perhaps it would be easier to put Kefka on the list then all the tropes he covers...?
Burai: Removed ...
FWIW, Suikoden doesn't actually have 108 playable characters — a great deal of the 108 Stars of Destiny are NP Cs who become storekeeps and other such henchman at your fortress rather than combat-capable P Cs. Still, that's like 75+ dudes to sort out into a party of 6 ... mine eyes glazeth over ... :-)
Viewer: Why does Sabin have a Luke, I Am Your Father reference?
Tanto: It's actually more of a Luke I Am Your Brother. Despite the name and connotations, Luke, I Am Your Father deals with any sort of previously unrevealed familial relationships.
Scifantasy: Except it's not unrevealed. They tell you flat-out that Sabin is Edgar's twin brother before you even meet him. Sabin's just the male equivalent of the Rebellious Princess—he didn't care about being king, he doesn't want to stick around, and Edgar gives him an opening to do just that.
Selasphorus: Restored from the big crash.
Tyrfing: Locke is a Loveable Rogue but isn't he also a Failure Knight?
32_Footsteps: Should we also reference the Bishōnen Line in regards to Kefka? He does get progressively uglier... until his final form, in which he resembles [[a Raphaelite angel]]. Starting at Monster Clown and ending there? Sounds Bishōnen Line to me.
beetnemesis: What are some examples of Alternate Character Interpretation between the different versions, and Woolseyisms for the SNES version? I'm not disagreeing, I'd just never heard that the versions changed anything before.
Haven: Took out Crazy Awesome, because while Kefka is crazy, and he is awesome, they don't really intersect: poisoning the water is an asshole tactic, for instance. Unless you argue he's Power Born of Madness but that's really stretching it and I don't think that was ever said.
Mr Death: Took this out of the main page:
- The old man is definitely the creeper. Note that he tells Locke how he "just happened" to have that herbal concoction ready. Also: Locke wasn't there for the Imperial attack. When exactly did that old man drug up Rachel's almost-corpse?
- The old man specifically says that Locke begged him to do it in the GBA remake.
- Yes, but again; Locke wasn't there when the attack happened, and yet Rachel is preserved exactly as she was when it happened. Did the old man really wait for Locke to show up before drugging Rachel? How would Locke know the difference, distraught and desperate as he was?
- Whoa. Way to clutch at straws, guys. Oh yeah. ALL the old man. It's not like Locke didn't let him keep Rachel there (as opposed to giving her a proper burial when he found out), filled the damn room with flowers, or go into that freaking phoenix cave when he learned about the magicite that was in there. The whole point of the subplot is that it's Locke's tragedy and personal angst issue—the old man is just the guy who explains it.
Rebochan: Just did a huge cleanup on the page, mainly to kill copious piles of natter and This Troper statements. I also pulled Xen Syndrome, since I was under the impression that's not a trope you link of the individual pages since it's so subjective.
Cukeman: I really don't understand how the GBA translation makes Kefka look any less like a clown or more power-focused than the SNES translation. Looking at Kefka's lines in both
versions at the same time, the only differences I've been able to see are mostly that, with the extra space, Kefka's shown to be a bit more kill-crazy in the GBA script (and not just because there's a Never Say "Die" thing going on in the SNES script), so if that's what people mean by the Alternate Character Interpretation, then why not say that? Moreover, Kefka has more Woolseyisms and quirky lines than in the GBA script (e.g., "Dispose of any who oppose us" versus "There's a reason 'oppose' rhymes with 'dispose'" and "I don't care for the appearance of this pitiful little hamlet... So burn it" versus "This little hamlet is too much boring and not enough burning... Torch everything"). I'll admit that the GBA script is worse off without "I hate hate hate etc.", but that aside, if nothing else the differences in character interpretation is actually the other way around. Am I just crazy for thinking this?
Heroic Jay: No way, I agree with you. There seems to be this running belief that more was changed about Kefka than actually was. I even wound up in a mini-edit-war with someone who kept trying to add that "many" of Kefka's humorous lines were removed in the GBA translation - I count two that got changed in any significant way at all, "hate hate hate" and "son of a submariner/sandworm", and the latter can hardly be called a removal. I suspect it's the They Changed It, Now It Sucks! crowd combined with Complaining About Video Game Remakes You Don't Play, perhaps with some people who played the fan retranslation of Final Fantasy VI, which really was infamously bland and devoid of all the best Woolseyisms.
Boobah: Pulled:
- Villain Song - Kefka's Theme, and "Dancing Mad", an 18 minute composition of several movements that includes the game's theme, Kefka's theme, and other parts.
because as awesome as that music is a Villain Song has exposition about the character's goals and worldview. Despite any aftermarket additions, neither "Cefca" nor "Dancing Mad" have any lyrics, and therefore are not this trope.
