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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Fast Eddie: <picks up gauntlet>


<gently lays gauntlet back down>

<lamely> Lost, Heroes, SG-1, Doctor Who ... Why pick on the others? ;-) </lamely>

Gattsuru: <picks up gauntlet>

Almost all of the video game tropes, half of Did Not Do The Research, Costume Inertia, Overly Long Gag, Superpowered Evil Side, Save Both Worlds, that's at least a start for the ones I've added to or modified.

To be honest, it's rather useful that the most common tropes have specific examples in popular culture that we can examine. A spoiler tag for an untranslated anime or ancient video game only really helps a few people, while nearly everyone has seen or read enough of the Lord Of The Rings to get the point.

You'd really want to add Star Wars, Zelda, and Law And Order, anyway.

Andrew Leprich: Well, I wouldn't know anything about this... >_>

Seth: I'd support adding Zelda but not Law And Order.

Andrew Leprich: In video games, we need Final Fantasy as well IMV.

Seth: I can think of FPS, Action and Stealth game tropes that FF used. Ah MiniGames.

Jisu: S-Strain up there with Avatar and Buffy? I'm flattered!

Duckluck: This raises some interesting questions about what the point of the examples is. Are they there to show the worthiness of the trope? Are they there to explain how common it is? Or just provide examples of what it does? I think probably it's a combination of the three with an emphasis on the last. This begs the question, do we really need all these obscure refrences to ten-year-old anime that were never broadcast in the US?

Seth: Yes. We reference anything that is relevant that a contributor wants to add, If we bog ourselves down with the notability arguments wikipedia do then we would loose half our content. This is a really informal site, if someone feels like adding something and it fits the formula, the fact that it was only broadcast once in Kazakhstan and was never even subbed or even received well makes no difference. We reference fanfics, dutch movie parody groups, manga that is decades old and not translated - notability is less important than if it fits the trope description. (See Fan Cruft)

The examples serve (To my understanding) a few purposes. They flesh out the pages, they help you draw lines between media and stories and they allow us to link the whole site together through a trail of links. The more examples and the more text the better.

(Though for pages like this brevity is strength, a few pages that are notable is better than fifty that scrape past)

Fast Eddie: Yeah, what Seth said. With the addition of the point that obscure refs become notable by being used. I'm sure, for example, that there have been people who have said "OK, What's this Avatar thing everyone is on about? I should check it out.'

Seth: Like me :D

Duckluck: That's about what I figured really. I'm personally fine with the obscure references. The ones that bug me are the well known shows that show up on dozens of pages where they don't belong. It's tricky.

Seth: Don't worry, there is a mini crusade against those EntryPimps and Vamp Benders :D Well at least i check every avatar example that pops up to make sure we dont get another 23 examples that don't fit (I actually wiped more than that if you include the averted tropes section).

The best way to deal with those is to check the examples, wipe those that dont fit and say why in the discussion page of the trope.

Lale: Neon Genesis Evangelion may be obscure, ten-years-old, and off-the-air, but it's also the Greatest Anime Of All Time and one of the greatest users, subverters, and deconstructions of tropes, warranting every entry made with it. If the trope/series fits, enter it, IMO. Let's face it- what gets entered depends solely on the mood and choice of users. That's what a wiki is.

Seth: It's also the biggest difference between us and Wikipedia. There they try to set guidelines of what's notable and what deserves to take up space on there servers (They deleted a few articles i wrote/liked/edited heavily so forgive my negative opinion of "notability" arguments) here if it uses a trope it is just as notable if it was written by a Finnish monk last century, watched by one person or part of a HBO sitcom with six million viewers. A trope is a trope.

Later: Might want to remove Lord Of The Rings from this page. Its a definite Trope Maker but it only has 53 references in the wiki, hardly overdosed.

Morgan Wick: Wow, it really only seems like we're laden with Avatar references when Transformers has more.

Tanto: I think it's because of the rampant shoehorning among the diehard Avatar fans. But most of the non-relevant Avatar references have been weeded out.

Seth: 'Puts away gardening gloves and sheers' yeah someone was quite thorough.

Colin: Wouldn't the list be better is organized by number of references each show has, instead of alphabetically?

Ununnilium: I'd agree. Anyone else?

Colin: If no one objects, I'll rearrange the list later tonight.

Lale: Good idea. Done.

Colin: Would Mystery Science Theater 3000 count? A quick search turn up 80+ relevant pages, and I know I can easily increase that number, but most of those would be them making fun of someone using a trope, and not a strait example.

Lale: Are you sure they aren't MST3K Mantra? Anyway, it's not that I don't believe you, but somehow, I don't remember running into it very often. I'm taking off Harry Potter; it's popular, but that amount's not exactly overdosed.

Colin: I check every single one (yeah, I know, I have way too much time on my hands), and, as the Mystery Science Theater 3000 page notes, the movies they do feature an example of many tropes, usually with a joke.

Ununnilium: What should be the minimum number to get on this page? 80? 85? 100, knocking off a couple we have on there?

Colin: I'd say 80 makes a show a good candidate, though inclusion should not necessarily follow if many of those 80 are weak.

Susan Davis: 100 is a nice round number....

Andrew Leprich: I'd even go as high as 120 or so. The list is becoming a tad bloated if you ask me.

Lale: I'm going with 150. Anyone who has a better idea, change it as you please, but that seems to be the point when others start complaining about a series being entered too many times.

KJ Mackley: It might be much easier to go with say, the top 30 overdosed instead of having a set number of trope references.

Ununnilium: In 2009, I'm giggling at this conversation.

Ununnilium: You know what, I'm pulling out:

This is what happens when you give us overzealous fans complete access.

...because a lot of the "overzealous fan" ones are actually off the list, by this point.

Seth: Wow i was so focused on Avatar and the others it never occurred to me half of those Bleach examples are my doing.

Cassius335: This page does not seem to be functioning as an index. It's certainly seems to be meant to, but the index mark-ups aren't working.

Janitor: That's fixed. He no likey italics-quotes on the pagename in the index.

Pavlov: Hey, how does this page work? Is someone manually updating them or does the site automagically do it? If it's done manually, how do I count occurrences? If I do a search, that gives me pages. If I do a Google search, that gives me occurrences plus discussions. I'd hate to inflate a count or improperly add something.

Janitor: Manually. The regular search gives all the places the item is referenced. The count of the hits is in the block of text above the results ("If ___ is too many ...", etc.). Quick way? Click on the title of the series on its page.

Pavlov: Janitor, you rock. Thanks! So, if I'm reading this right, Star Trek (656) is still #1 but Dr Who (482) is now #2, with The Simpson's (417) now beating Buffy (391). Clearly, the fans will be tearing down the bleachers any minute now.

Ununnilium: Does Buffy count Angel?

Seth: No - different series.

Dolt Boy: I don't know, they share a universe, several characters, and frequently cross over. There could be an argument to be made for a "Buffyverse" entry.

Adam850: Re-searched the trope numbers. Had some movement, but No. 1 is still Star Trek. Transformers shot up the list from last to near the top.

Seth: Thats just what the movie has done to their toy profits as well.

Adam850: Time for a recheck. ............Done! A little mid-list jockeying, but the top two are solid. I didn't recheck the "Auteur" section.

Seth: Rechecked, a bit of shuffling this time Simpsons overtakes buffy, Bleach over pokemon and a few others.

Adam850: Got bored and rechecked the top half.

thatother1dude: I just check Mahou Sensei Negima and got over 200 pages so that definitely puts it on the list

Seth: We have been using 110 as a baseline so yes it does.

thatother1dude: probably because it has such a huge cast (having every person in the class be featured characters will do that) and alternate reality series gives it a lot

Adam850: Don't all of the titles need to be italicized?

Seth: See Series, such a long list of just series, there really isn't a point. I don't suppose it would matter though if it were bugging you.

Adam850: It isn't, I was just trying to be consistent.

Sci Vo: A better example is Notable Webcomics. The external links are italicized because that's correct, and the internal links are not because italicization breaks indexing. This is an index, so they should not be italicized.

Lale: Sorry, Order Of The Stick — haven't seen any discussion about changing the 150+ requirement.
Adam850: Rechecked Oct 8. One problem here Twenty Four has 174 references, but some are for 24-hour news networks. edit: not a big problem. "24 hour NN" has 2 wicks and "24-hour party people" has four. So I subtracted 6 from 174.

The real problem is Heroes. Has 215 search hits. How can you count the pages for the series without accidentally including references to more than one hero?

Sci Vo: A manual site search for series/{{heroes}} yielded 89 results, and a search for series.{{heroes}} yielded 14. Could theoretically be some overlap, if both versions were used in different places on the same page, but it's unlikely.

thatother1dude: Did a recheck of the top twenty and a couple more, and the ranks changed a bit.

Adam850: Might as well do them all.

Adam850: There should be a script or bot for this! Look at the lists in Series, Noteworthy Anime, Webcomics, Videogames Of Note, Literature, Film -and whatever else-, run a search for each entry, get the number of hits, sort the list, and post all above 150 hits, remembering to keep the comments and phrasing of the existing list. Sounds easy, huh? I would totally program that if I knew a programming language besides 4 variants of BASIC and Programmable Logic Controllers ladder logic.

Charred Knight: I did a search for Super Robot Wars and got 185 hits, and I wonder if that would be enough considering that the actual hit number is generally 30 higher than the number listed here? I decided to manually check it myself and am currently on 55 stopping (but not counting Entry Pimp) After manually counting I have about 190+ not counting other series, WMG, discussions, or the entries of it themselves.

Adam850: These numbers seem a little inflated. How did Star Trek get over 1000 hits?

Sikon: It used to be so. For some reason, all the numbers seem to have decreased. Either it's a bug, or this page needs a major update.

Sci Vo: Yeah, I'm only getting 770 Wicks for Star Trek, and that's even counting JustBugsMe.Star Trek and 17 from Star Trek Shake. Update: I'm getting some weird results, like Smallville not showing up as a title hit for itself, so I'm going to Ask The Tropers]] on this.

Adam850: New search tech means new numbers. Please stand by... calculating...calculating...your call is important to us. Please stand by... Done! Nov. 21, 8:06 PM PST. Full Metal Alchemist fell off the bottom at 155 wicks. We now have two in the kiloWick range!

Lale: Should we continue to use the number of search hits now that Discussion pages are included? Most of the discussion hits are probably conclusions that the show didn't fit the trope.

Charred Knight: I am not counting them or wicks to other series. It took me hours to compile the Super Robot Wars search but it was worth it.

Morgan Wick: On the topic of titles that are also words, may I suggest a search for Lost?
Servbot: Removed Fullmetal Alchemist and Song of Ice and Fire. Pretty sure the unofficial cut-off is still 150 wicks.
Sketch: Does anyone mind my newly added Film Overdosed section? I noticed some, specifically those three, were mentioned a whole lot for movies without sequels (Kill Bill's a strange one as it's one movie split into two parts. Vol. 2 isn't so much a sequel as it is the "second half"...if you know what I mean...). I thought that warranted some special mention.

Also, the list is getting pretty long and bloated now. How about updating the unofficial cut-off to 200? A series that crosses that number is really Overdosed while anything in the 100s is simply mentioned a lot at this point.

Adam850: That would only shave off around ten shows. I'd leave it until the list gets over 100 examples. Maybe limit the list to the "top 100" shows.

Pk Mario: Is there a particular reason why the Wicks for Harry Potter and Avatar The Last Airbender are being lowered from their actual number in the search? _

Sketch: Total wicks =/= Overdosed wicks. Discussions aren't counted, and I'm pretty sure Just Bugs Me and WMG don't count either, nor do Contributer pages or the series' page itself. So I docked them down to their appropriate number. No harm, no foul.

Donomni: Ugh. The search engine is biased towards Final Fantasy XI. I most certainly do not believe that it has 200 wicks, but you can't search by just XI. That, and Google site search seems to only return one page. Really don't wanna try and go through manually.

Later: Re-remembered how to actually use a search engine. 62 wicks. Needs moar work.

Frank75: If you search for Final Fantasy XI, does the search engine think it found FF 11 if it's really a part of Final Fantasy XII?

Donomni: Yes, but then I remembered double apostrophes can limit a search to an exact phrase. Worked like a charm.

This just in - Ok, huh. Search engine no longer works like that. How the hell am I supposed to figure out Overdosed status on FFXI now? :(

That Other 1 Dude: Someone redid all of the numbers, but I think he forgot to subtract the Discussion, WMG, Just Bugs Me, and troper pages ( (I counted for Avatar which has 788 hits, 53 Discussion, Just Bugs Me and WMG, but I don't know how many troper pages, so it should just around 700)

Micah: I think that's probably the right way to do things—subtracting off all that other stuff would be a pain and it's not likely to make that much of a difference in terms of rankings.

The other option would be to go to the automated Wick-calculator at the bottom of the page, but the very existence of that calculator makes this seem kind of silly (why have the same information in more than one place?).

That said, we should establish a consistent methodology and write it up somewhere. Should we count "Star Trek" (currently 1655 wicks) or "Star Trek" (currently 1814 wicks)? What about "Seinfeld" (287 wicks) versus "Seinfeld" (205 wicks)? The current link count seems to be written with the more restrictive standard in both cases (which probably makes sense given that it's the only reasonable way to do stuff with Heroes and the like), but it'd be nice to actually say so.

Fire Walk: I've just added Red Dwarf in, but the number is just the "related to" number of wicks, without removing discussions/ contributors. Is there some easy way to do that or is this list just counting plain Wicks these days?

Lale: See the It Just Bugs Me Trope Overdosed entry...
  • Eponymous Kid: You know how, in [Trope Name], it says "Shoehorned example from Trope Overdosed: The Series? I've been thinking about that. I'd been, well, indignant to people who think there are too many Avatar examples on this wiki. What, should we delete existing examples even if they actually count? Or refrain from adding viable examles from it? But, back to that shoehorned thing... that is true about Avatar examples, I find. A decent percentage of them don't really belong. And other series are guilty of this, too. (Always Chaotic Evil: "Vogons are Always Lawful Evil." Then they aren't Always Chaotic Evil, are they?)...

I don't know... I feel like we should do something about this, but I know it would get out of hand and real examples would get deleted until Avatar Needs More Love

Meta4: Really, if you see an example on a trope page that's shoehorned it, cut it and move it to the discussion page. That's all we can do. Unless you want to search for your favorite series to examine every trope page where it's listed as an example. (Yes, I've done that once or twice.)

EDITED TO ADD: Also, Vogons fit in Always Chaotic Evil, because the trope is about entire races of "bad guys", not specifically those of the Chaotic Evil Character Alignment.

Micah: On latest update, either there's massive example-deletion going on or something weird is going on with Warhammer40000, CSI, Law And Order, and most of the movie/author examples—none of them have nearly as many hits on the commented/linked search term as they claim.

Large Blunt Object: When I brought this up on Ask The Tropers, I was told 40k was odd because of the way it's usually linked ({{Warhammer 40000}}, not a wiki word), and that it was the "related to" wick count that determined its trope-overdosed status. 40k has 428 wicks and 444 search engine hits. Which is correct?

Either way, can we please have an explanation of how the hell this does work on the page, because it's seriously annoying adding and counting to see it apparently arbitrarily deleted.

Micah: The 444 search engine hits are probably the most consistent way of doing things. I was searching on "warhammer40000", because that was what the comment was; apparently you were searching on "warhammer 40000". I've added it back with the version-with-spaces in comments.

Seems like it might be hard to be sure with Labyrinth because of pan's version, but I do think it qualifies.
That Other 1 Dude: Does anyone think we could have a small list for Image Overdosed? There's a partial list in the TV Tropes Wiki Drinking Game. Also, if you used the "related to" button on the Pokemon page (which search with {{Pokemon}}) you get the number stated, however, just searching "Pokemon" brings up more than one hundred more pages.

Large Blunt Object: I wholeheartedly approve of Image Overdosed. Threshold should be... what, 5? 10? (Add a bulleted list of the pages? It's unlikely to get all that long...) In any case, the pages with images from 40k I know of:

(later: Put this on YKTTW, for opinions and to accumulate links.

Meta Four: So when we're counting the number of wicks a series has, are we bothering to subtract the wicks from contributor pages, or from Just for Fun pages?
That Other 1 Dude: Cowboy Bebop has 332 wicks, but Cowboy BeBop at His Computer has 21 wicks.
32_Footsteps: Just removed Long Runner status from four series, as they don't meet the wiki's definition of at least ten years of running. Ranma One Half only went nine years (and the anime ran concurrent to the manga, so the former didn't extent the latter's run time), Naruto started in 1999 (so it's eligible next year), Bleach started in 2001, and Mahou Sensei Negima is only halfway there, having started in 2003. In fact, the only manga/anime series that I can find that's mentioned here and does qualify is Dragon Ball, which had an 11-year run in the manga, not counting how much longer Dragon Ball GT has extended it.

Silent Hunter: Doctor Who is now at 2017.

Morgan Wick: You know, you'd think someone would have created a Larry Niven page by now...

Vampire Buddha: So Doctor Who has passed out Star Trek. That makes me feel good for some reason, and I'm not even British.
Finn Mac Cool: Just updated the wick counts for each series. Spider-Man and Futurama are now Trope Overloaded, and Final Fantasy is now the third series to pass 2000 wicks, earning it Oversaturated status.
Paul Power: Think there's room for a section about individual video games that attract entries like flies? Team Fortress 2, for example, has 220 "Related to..." entries.
Ronfar: The webcomic Adventurers! has over 200 tropes listed on its own page. Many of those pages probably don't link back to the Adventurers! page, though. The word "adventurers" has 313 wicks, but many of them have nothing to do with the webcomic.
Goldfritha: Film Overdosed? Does this indicate "Work Overdosed", so a single novel, etc. would apply?

(And how many pages would a webcomic have to have before it jumped from "work" to "series"?)

  • Webcomics are always considered series. Thus, they require 301 Wicks (or more than 300, if you prefer) before joining the list

C Trombley: Would it be possible to make the numbering of Trope Saturated, Trope Overloaded and Trope Overdosed flow? That way we don't have to add fluctuating values to the numbers in Trope Overloaded or Trope Overdosed to find how it "really" ranks on the list.
Sketch: List got too bloated and needed an overhaul. YKTTW decided to change the minimum requirements so here are the changes
  • Trope Overdosed now requires 600+ references
  • Film Overdosed now needs 80+ references
  • Author Overdosed now needs 100+ references

Everything is up to date now.

Rogue 7: Wow, 600 references. I remember when the change was made to 300. The wiki has really grown.

SpiriTsunami: The Tales Of Symphonia continuity qualifies if they combine their tropes (I made sure to compare the lists to weed out any doubles). Tales Of Symphonia comes close on its own, and if I really wanted to, I could just throw the entire Tales Series together—I just thought it was more appropriate to do it that way, with just the two Symphonia games and Phantasia.

BrightBlueInk: You know, considering the entire Final Fantasy series counts as a whole, I think we could probably count the Tales Series as one series, too. (Although it'd probably be harder to figure out the tally for that than the FF tally.)

1angelette: Say, could we have an Actor Overdosed part of the page? For, like, Robin Williams and the like...

igordebraga: I'd also suggest some day a Musician Overdosed. (The Beatles: 266, TMBG: 212)

Frank75: I included the Beatles under Creators, since they definitely are. (If authors AND directors count, we shouldn't just list the former.) But yes, I wouldn't mind Actor Overdosed either. Robin Williams, William Shatner and Brian Blessed would definitely qualify. And what about voice actors? We could turn Author Overdosed into People / Person / Artist Overdosed...

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are not a "work overdosed". They're part of the general Batman franchise. Removing. I have no problem mentioning that the recent films have weighed heavily on its status. (Do the number of wicks for the Nolan film count as part of Batman already?)

No. Specially because most of the wicks linking to The Dark Knight are about the Joker.

Frank75: To whomever: I think we should allow trilogies in Film Overdosed. Because if we wouldn't, barely any movie would make it. Do the math: 100 wicks are enough for Film Overdosed, but you need 600+ for Trope Overdosed. If we leave out movies based on comics (like Superman and other superhero movies) and TV shows (Star Trek, X-Files and many more), all movies left in Trope Overdosed would be Star Wars, James Bond and LOTR (which is based on a book). So, I'll take the freedom and put trilogies back to Film Overdosed the next time.

Recon: Now that I think about it, what constitutes a 'page'? What with different font sizes, renderings, screen resolutions, what metric are we using to constitute one 'page of text', if any?

Kenb215: One webpage counts as one page. So Star Trek has over 3500 articles linking to it. This should be excluding talk, user, and some others.

Frank75: In case someone's surprised how Star Trek suddenly made the jump over the 4000 wicks: I had avoided it in the past, but now I made a script that allows me to count wicks to ALL the ST series & movies, while removing duplicates.

  • Care to share?
    • Frank75: I could, but I don't know whether we can upload non-image files. And it involves some manual work still: You have to check the "Related to" page for each alternate title, copy the bit with the links from the HTML source and then run the script over it. Which is why I decided that I'll do the big update just once every few months.

Antwan: So, I've been curious...does the website automatically update how many pages the show appears in or does it have to be updated manually?

Frank75: Manually of course. Take a look: It has a page history.

Sabre Justice: I'm too stupid to figure out how this thing works, so someone had better figure out where Genius The Transgression, one of the fastest-growing pages. Or does The World Of Darkness cover that?

Dolt Boy: I support the idea of turning Film Overdosed into Work Overdosed, or something similar. Apart from novels, there are also stage shows. Angels In America, Sweeney Todd, Othello, Romeo And Juliet (and West Side Story for that matter), Hamlet, Rent, Into The Woods, Les Miserables, and Wicked (the last two being both book and show), all have over 100 wicks. Can we all agree on this Work Overdosed idea? Perhaps we can couple that with a raise in the minimum number of wicks to 150 or 200, so the page doesn't get ridiculous.

I dunno how to check the number of wicks, but I feel that Phineas and Ferb belongs on this list.

Dolt Boy: I added Angels In America under Film Overdosed, justified by the fact that it's also a Mini Series, and if three-part online short Dr. Horrible qualifies, I think Angels should. If anyone takes issue with that, then let's discuss.

Game_Fan: I think we need a better search for determining the number hits. Batman, for example, has 3711 hits on the text search but I found 35 hits there were TT, WMG, JBM, Quotes before I even reached the letter "C". Beyond that we have no way of really weeding out hits from Contributor pages unless people are willing to look at every single one of hundreds or thousands of pages. There's also a problem with hits from things that come from the series, not so bad for some stuff but Batman (again) has dozens of pages devoted to Batman or Batman focused series.

Viv: Uh, Order Of The Stick does not have 1807 pages. I count 1458.

  • Game_Fan: I count 1211 (1334-123non-trope hits).
  • Odd. Either someone rampaged across the wiki or we have a lying entry pimp. Oot S does not have any shoot offs to add either.
  • I think I know where the existing number came from: Order Of The Stick gets 1906 hits in the text search (but that's every page that happens to contain all the component words in order or not). "Order Of The Stick" gets 484 hits in text search. OrderOfTheStick gets 1334 hits in text search. Methinks this page needs very serious clean up or at least disambiguation of the selection process.
  • Frank75: Since I updated the list more than once: I use the "related to" button. Text search isn't accurate enough. (Batman / Batman Gambit and such.) After all, it's all about the wicks, as it says on the page. Oh, and about the OOTS bit: you also have to count the wicks for The Order Of The Stick. (There are more than 400, that should explain the difference.)

The JBM, TT and WMG pages were a problem in the past, but now I updated my script, so in future we'll get more precise numbers. Although I don't get why we should leave them out. After all, a lot of mentioning in WMG shows that there's a lot of special interest in the show as well. Can anyone tell me why that rule was introduced? Fast Eddie? And what about the other new namespaces - Quotes Wiki, Haiku-Wiki and so on? Should we leave them out as well?

  • I don't know if it is a rule. I sort of just assumed that singe the page was called tropeoverdosed we were only supposed to count appearances on trope pages.

Now I tested my new script that doesn't count WMG, JBM and TT. Result for OOTS is now: 1844. With them, there'd be 1926. Not that big a difference.

  • Well, I think Quotes and Haiku wiki should count. Wicks are measure of popularity, after all. Perhaps increase the lower and upper limits by 300 again. And just what is this miracle script of yours? Add it to the page and note it to be the recommended way to count wicks.

Frank75 @ Viv: Scroll a bit up - I'd share but I don't know how to upload scripts, and it still involves some manual work.

Skyblade: I really think it's unfair to add franchises like Batman and Transformers to "work overdosed". The logic basically being, if someobody were to bring up a Long Runner, all iterations are eventually going to crop up in a bullet list. For instance, the Joker has been an iconic character for half a century, long before The Dark Knight came out. So let's say, a trope applies to him? Mentioning him from the comics will get you the animated series, the TV series, etc.

Secondly, as we all know, Trope Overdosed tends to have as much to do with the fanbase as with the work itself. Single works tend not to have fanbases the way TV series and comic do. So...if something has been a long runner in previous incarnations that built up a fanbase, a so-called "single work" is going to have an advantage. I mean, granted, you can say the same thing about Doctor Horribles Sing Along Blog, but that's ultimately a hard thing to draw a line on. But if something is part of a larger over-arching franchise, different continuities or not, I don't think its trope overdosing is that special.

Kerrah: Why are Warcraft and World Of Warcraft counted separately, but other series combine wicks from different articles?
I was going to merge them, but I decided to make this query since there's a lot of overlap between the two's wick list.
later addition: Received no reply, so I just melded them together. Earned the franchise the twelfth spot on the list.

Viv: Uh, the wicks for film/Superman, Superman and comicbook/superman total 1614, not 2104.

Frank75: Yeah... seems someone used the text search instead, which gives 2600+ results at the moment. Strange, I would've thought Supie was more popular. And for some strange reason, Superman plain has no wicks at all.

Dolt Boy: Anyone else notice that Shakespeare actually has fewer than 300 articles under "related to"? Naturally some references aren't linked (I'm fixing that now), but this is why basing Trope Overdosed on search results is not a good idea; it comes up with discussion pages and history pages and references to the Shout-Out to Shakespeare trope in addition to actual articles, making the whole thing inaccurate.
  • That's clever. Basing the numbers on the Related To pages of series sounds like a good idea.
  • Dolt Boy: Why thank you! ^_^ I think the reason people use search results instead is because not all references are blue linked, which causes inaccuracies of it's own. Also, I stand corrected: William Shakespeare had fewer than 300 articles; just Shakespeare had over 500—the latter redirects to the former, but the wicks aren't counted together. Nevertheless, Shakespeare still has fewer than 900 wicks now.
    • However I do see a problem. With some things the Related To systems is perfect for things like Futurama, Scrubs, Inu Yasha or GURPS that have just one page to link to. On the otherhand Batman, Star Trek, World of Darkness and Star Gate are divided among six plus pages each with considerable overlap. So we can easily update certain stuff (with a slight margin or error) but determining the number of pages for others will remain fairly laborious.
Goldfritha: What we really need is rigorous linking up. But you see a lot of "Shakespeare" and "Tolkien" that aren't even the full name, let alone linked up.

Frank75: IMO the Bard deserves place #1, so we may make an exception for him (ie not using related search). However, the numbers for Piers Anthony also are inflated, and I never even read a book by him.

Frank75: I'm currently updating the index and found another question. What about the Expanded Universes? SW and W H40k have quite a number of works on their lists. What about individual Batman / Superman comics, or Smallville? Should we include them? What about individual game worlds for D&D, or the various lines of the World Of Darkness?

Frank75: Viv, I hope you read this: Your numbers are pretty much too high. Seems to me like you're just taking the numbers of wicks for each Final Fantasy game and add them up. But that means you're counting overlapping wicks too often. And in fact, I'm afraid, you're messing up things.

  • Really? Page restored to last edit.

Frank75: Went through the Film list today and found a lot of movies which have more than 80 wicks. But the list is getting pretty long now. Hell, it's now longer than the list of all the other works put together. We should lift the limit somewhat. 100? 120? 160?

Oh, and so we won't lose the work, I suggest that we put cut works from the list to Trope Overdosed. (Yes, it's a red link yet.)

Mindstorm: Why is Tsukihime listed twice?

drumsolo: Firefly, a show from 2002, has 2002+ wikis? Whoever did that, you win.


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