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Archived Discussion Main / KickTheSonOfABitch

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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Working Title: Kick the Scrappy: From YKTTW

Luc: If you want to know how this differs from Asshole Victim:

  1. Asshole Victim is the character. Kick the Son of a Bitch is the action.
  2. The Asshole Victim is the focus of his own trope. Kick the Son of a Bitch is seen through the eyes of the kicker, normally.
  3. Kick the Son of a Bitch normally requires an Asshole Victim, but an Asshole Victim can be less extreme than what is required for a Kick the Son of a Bitch.
  4. The Asshole Victim's natural stomping grounds is in Mysteries and Horror/Suspense. Kick the Son of a Bitch is an Anti-Villain trope, and as such, can be found in any genre which has significant screen time dedicated to an Anti-Villain.
  5. Kick the Son of a Bitch is all about the perpetrator being an Anti-Villain. The Asshole Victim does not require there to be a perpetrator at all.

(Note, by the way, by Anti-Villain, I'm noting its tendencies to be done by Anti Villains; Anti Heroes and plain old villains can both Kick the Son of a Bitch.)

Thatother1dude: OK, well:

  1. Why do we have an article that's about nearly the same thing just in a different part of speech?
  2. I see very few examples of the perpetrator being any sort of Anti-Villain
  3. Many of these examples had people "deserving it" for examples that are far from "extreme".
  4. There are victims in all kinds of genre.
  5. Again, I am seeing very few examples of the perpetrators being Anti Villains. Quite the opposite, really. And just the article requiring a perpetrator really doesn't seem different enough to warrant its own trope.

Luc: The focus is completely different. Asshole Victim is purely about the victim; a perpetrator in the traditional sense is not actually required. Kick the Son of a Bitch is about the audience's reaction to the perpetrator.

thatother1dude: OK, now I have a new issue; a good potion of this article is people justifying their personal Draco In Leathers Pants. Let's go through the list and see the overlap:

  1. Draco himself
  2. Due from Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
  3. Shizuru from Mai-HiME
  4. Magneto
  5. Belkar from Order Of The Stick.
  6. Ozymandias from Watchmen.

Madrugada Considering that the definition includes that this is a villain's or antihero's action, not a classic hero's action, of course there's going to be overlap with Draco in Leather Pants, which is about villains who develop a fanbase. And it's not strictly Pay Evil unto Evil — the "son of a bitch" here need be nothing more than unlikeable — not evil. Harry Potter is not Evil, and neither is Miko from Oot S. Harry is being smug and stupid and Miko is seriously misguided but neither are evil.

thatother1dude: You know this whole thing is going to turn into a huge bitchfest of people whining about characters "deserving" things and worshiping whoever else for doing it.

Of course, this whole thing is a demonstration of how most people's interests in Anti Heroes and Heroic Sociopathes are firmly rooted in the Wish Fulfillment of being able to kill/mistreat whoever you want.

And can we cut that stuff about something being a "deliberate" example, as well as cases were it's obvious the person was supposed to deserve it? This is obvious supposed to be a trope about adverse fandom reaction to something. If something wasn't intended as a Kick the Dog, it definitely doesn't count.

Madrugada: I'm not seeing evidence of "a huge bitchfest" so far. What makes you think it's going to turn into one now? You're right, if something wasn't supposed to be a Kick the Dog moment it doesn't belong here, which is a perfectly good reason to take out any examples that are simply "He did something horrible but really it was awesome." Cutting an entire page because it will require some maintenance is pretty extreme.

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Now that this trope has been allowed to exist, I'm cutting this example and putting it here for now. I don't know if it counts.
  • While both Tomoe Marguerite and Nina Wang had earned themselves a great deal of fan ire by the latter episodes of Mai-Otome (the former as a Smug Snake, and the latter for her WMD-induced annihilation of a handful of countries), Nina still got cheered when she slapped Tomoe in the face for getting fresh with her about Nagi and Sergey. Considering that Tomoe had previously admitted (to Arika and the audience) to crippling Nina's dead friend Erstin not once, but twice (and later gloating about it), some felt that she had it coming.

  • Felius: URGH, just noticed now, and groan loudly, but the title of this trope is extremely Puntastic. I mean, a bitch is a female dog, a son of a bitch is therefore a puppy. Urgh...

Tnvlsrule: I would expect most readers to understand the joke, so I'm changing the pothole on that line to Don't Explain the Joke.

Richard AK: Removed this example:
* Archaeological digs have revealed that some of the nations the Israelites stomped over in the Old Testament were pretty nasty.
Because the Israelites were not the villains in the text. Just the opposite in fact. Modern sensibilities may be troubled by the Book of Joshua, but Joshua is clearly the hero of the story.


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