This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
I thought this wiki had a no-complaining policy. But this page is basically Complaing About People Who Complain About Shows You Don't Like.
Rebochan: Are you kidding? We have several tropes of this! But it's okay. We also have a trope for Complaining About People Not Liking the Show. Everyone is catered to, friend.
HeartBurn Kid: Must... not... mention... flamewar... over... More Dakka... must... stop... talkinglike... William Shatner...
Fast Eddie: I take this replaces Schrodingers Shark, or whatever it was called?
Unknown Troper: I guess so. I suppose this title works, though for me, it made me think more of a "you learn something about your favorite story, TV show, film, that leaves it ruined FOREVER," like, for me, the fact that all of Emily Dickinson's poems can be sung in perfect time to "The Yellow Rose of Texas." Try it. It is impossible for me to take Miss Dickinson seriously now. Is that a trope?
Lord TNK: You can ykttw something like that. It seems to be something that triggers a Narm, but is not really related to the work itself.
And yes, this does replace that. The name fit the point I was trying to make much better, and writing the article to fit that just seemed to work.
Lord TNK: The Indiana Jones example is back in. It is this trope, even if you don't want it to be.
arromdee: Removed
- When Dawn was introduced, fans declared Buffy had jumped the shark, because it was obviously a Cousin Oliver. That was actually a ruse, when it later turned out Dawn was a subversion, and was actually the season's MacGuffin. In fact, a majority of Jump The Shark
votes state the show never actually jumped, with Dawn barely coming in a third of that.
Whether Dawn counts as a Cousin Oliver depends on very fine distinctions.
- If you say that a Cousin Oliver must, by definition, actually have been there all along, then Dawn wasn't one—but by that definition the fans never believed she was one either. It was obvious from the very beginning that Dawn had been added by Cosmic Retcon.
- If it suffices that a Cousin Oliver is treated in the future like he was there all along, then Dawn was one, and the fans were right. Very little is different that wouldn't be there if Dawn had been a normal Cousin Oliver who fell in a vat of key extract—and Dawn continued on to future seasons where the Key business played no part whatsoever, but everyone treats her as Buffy's sister. This is, in fact, one of the peculiarities of Cosmic Retcon—pedants can claim that the incident "isn't really" whatever it is because there was an in-story reason, but for most practical purposes it may as well be.
Furthermore, the spin that this paragraph puts on the jumptheshark.com link is a bit misleading. To put it another, less favorable way: among people who think that Buffy jumped the shark at all, the most popular reason was the introduction of Dawn.
(And the whole Key thing was so full of Fridge Logic anyway that it seemed more like the Key plot was just the excuse to insert the Cousin Oliver.)
Eric DVH: Removed the following. The series died with the first 3D game, so anything subsequent isn't arguing over if it's ruined anything, it's just arguing over how gruesome the latest car to hit the pileup is:
- Sonic The Hedgehog fans are always doing this. Currently it's the idea of the werehog that's ruining it, before that it was another hedgehog in the series, before that it was gunplay added to the series, before that the change of voices to the 4Kids VA's, before that it was the addition of an angsty hedgehog, and pretty much anything and everything announced since as far back as Sonic 2 had someone grumbling about it. None of this has been helped by all the 3D games themselves (excluding Sonic Unleashed) suffering from the Polygon Ceiling.
Komodin: I've put the entry back. Your personal Discontinuity enactment for the series does not justify the removal of this entry.
KJMackley: I cleaned up the Live Action Avatar The Last Airbender example because it was just a list of people talking about their own problems with the movie, which is contrary to the trope.
Eric DVH: “Even if you have never tried the older games.” Think about that, if this is the first “Fallout” game you've played, then you literally have no idea of what was or wasn't ruined. And those pictures showed problems that ended up in the finished game. Pulled:
- The third game in the Fallout trilogy, most fans complaining because it is not top down like the others and therefore sucks even if you have never even tried the older games. Most amusing are the folks at No Mutants Allowed making countless threads about how bad it is, which is all very well until you realize they were from before the release and were based on some pictures.
Rebochan: I pulled the following example:
- Any and all information about the M Night Shyamalan live action Avatar The Last Airbender movie. Casting choices, the director himself, the only hope the fans have is that the original creators are very much involved with the production.
- This is pretty clearly a lie. Bryke have said nothing about the film since development began (a pretty bad sign), and producer Frank Marshall mentioned that they'd visited the set once but made no mention of any comments they'd had. Likely as not they only worked on the script.
Things look a little too murky on that movie to say either way at the moment. While I usually lean on the "Unpleasable Fanbase" side of any fandom argument, details on the film seem to be nebulous at best. Declaring that this trope applies may be premature.
Morgan Wick: This is an advanced form of They Changed It Now It Sucks. So it's basically They Changed It, Now It Sucks! But More So?
Peteman: If we do cut this, I think we should maintain the trope, but remove the examples.
Ganondorfdude11: The request to cut comes from someone who thinks that "Thos trope sucks" so I'd ignore it.
Rebochan Pulled this bit:
- Granted, some of the Season 37 changes were not too stellar. From details like removing the light border seen in the show's opening since its extension to one hour, to noticeable changes to certain pricing games, to Showcase skits that involved comedy that was more random and/or too offbeat (an infamous one was centered around announcer Rich Fields asking Drew Carey questions, and having the latter reply "fried chicken?" to each one) and changed the end tagline (Fields now recapped the prizes instead of saying "This showcase can be yours if the price is right").
- However they did include some Cue Cullen type details too. After an edict supposedly passed by Bob Barker that the announcer not be seen on camera, Rich Fields was now seen often, especially in Showcase skits. In a nod to the older episodes, he also is shown calling down one of the contestants (same as what was done with Johnny Olson and Rod Roddy, before the latter fell victim to the alleged aforementioned not-on-camera rule) Drew Carey also tries to have a rapport with the models of the show, not unlike the "glory days" of Janice, Dian, and Holly.
- This troper has been watching a bit lately and notices that some of the targets of complaints seem to have been toned down, especially in the Showcases.
Because it seemed to be "Well it really is Ruined FOREVER!"
Midonin:
- and a lot of these series really have Jumped the Shark
Rebochan: I played around with it so it's more in line with the trope itself. Now it's more of a case where shows may indeed have jumped the shark, but often not for the reasons listed here.
Midonin: What the...someone really needs to trim down that first bullet point in the Video Games folder.
Dragon Quest Z: Done. That better?
Crowbar: Removed the following from the World of Darkness entry:
- Well, by now we can say that new World Of Darkness did in fact ruin Werewolf, because the game line is practically dead - no new books for more than a year now, and there weren't many even before then. We'll see whether this ruination will last forever.
- *cough* Wolfsbane and Signs of the Moon. According to Word of God, the issue with more Werewolf material is that they've covered most of the things that need covering. If something comes along that's worth a book, then they'll cover it. Successfully covering everything you need to is not exactly Ruined FOREVER!
- One book per year (after a long hiatus) is pathetic, particularly if one of this books is a monster manual with obvious multi-line utility. Equally pathetic are their attemts at bullshitting. The iron rule of White Wolf was publishing lots and lots of splatbooks for every gameline, and they still follow it vigorously with games that retain a measure of their old popularity, such as Mage and Vampire. Werewolf simply failed to retain it.
- Well, by now we can say that new World Of Darkness did in fact ruin Werewolf, because the game line is practically dead - no new books for more than a year now, and there weren't many even before then. We'll see whether this ruination will last forever.
Do I even need to explain it? Complaining about Ruined Forever on the very page which explains how ridiculous the concept is. Not to mention the natter.
