Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
I’ve got a couple of potential edits for the Monster page for Betrayal at House on the Hill. Firstly, the House from Death Doth Find Us All is still listed. It was cut a few months back for needing to feed on souls to survive, so its writeup’s gotta go.
Secondly, just a small tweak I wanted to make to the Stacked Like Cordwood Traitor’s entry.
- This Traitor is a relative of the Haunt's primary antagonist, Crimson Jack, an infamous Serial Killer who revives every time he's killed to slaughter any people who come inside the mansion. To kill their boredom the Traitor takes advantage of their relative's dangerous mindset and befriends people with the sole purpose of leading them to the mansion to watch them get slaughtered by Crimson Jack, for their own amusement. When the explorers enter the mansion, they notice how the Traitor is standing in a room filled with stacked corpses of victims that the Traitor brought for Crimson Jack in the past. If the explorers succeed in killing Crimson Jack with a cursed weapon that stops him from reviving, the Traitor abandons their relative to his fate and flees the mansion. If Crimson Jack kills all of the explorers, the Traitor quickly grows bored and decides to go to a frat house in hopes of finding new victims for Crimson Jack.
I think the penultimate sentence is unnecessary, as nowhere in the Haunt does it say what happens to the Traitor after Crimson Jack is killed. It can be assumed they got away, but most Haunts in the game omit the Traitor’s fate. In fact, the only Traitors on the Monster page alone that receive explicit Karma are the ones from Comes the Hero and The Feast, as they have to be slain for the explorers to win their respective Haunts.
Thoughts?
No power in the ‘verse can stop me.
Cut Kudrow
Edited by VeryVileVillian on May 1st 2024 at 2:07:25 PM
Not the Eye
Cut Kudrow.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Sorry I misread bit about never saying what happened to traitor and mispoke about my original vote. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to rewrite.
Edited by EmperorGeode on May 1st 2024 at 6:32:30 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
I wasn’t suggesting we cut that Traitor, just saying that one sentence could be taken out. And the House was actually cut, but never removed from the Monster page.
No power in the ‘verse can stop me.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Jogo
Cut Kudrow, though it's mostly due to him being an Action Movie villain who has only 4-6 kills without much of a nasty niche in a genre where the baseline tends to be around 30 or so kills and his resources don't help much either, as he's an NSA Colonel and as such would likely have high resources.
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
Snip Kudrow, good with the rewrite.
Edited by TurlesTheVegan on May 1st 2024 at 10:04:48 AM
to the Traitor rewrite
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to the rewrite and cut Kudrow but as a friendly piece of advice Robert, some of what you're saying in the cut proposal could be seen as running down the OP more than is necessary and we might wanna watch that as we go through these suggestions.
Edited by PassingThrough on May 1st 2024 at 12:30:22 PM
Alright, so... keep it short?
I mean, sometimes a thorough analysis is needed
I thought Etelgar was already approved to cut?
Anyways, Alien Bat did the multiversal conquest thing previously, and IIRC some other earlier villains attempted the same thing.
Edited by RobertTYL on May 2nd 2024 at 12:57:42 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
FWIW, the Time After Time dude is still there; I haven't touched that yet.
Same with Etelgar; was this ever answered?
The wifi here sucks
Cut Kudrow but I have to agree with Passing that the post comes off as unnecessarily aggressive towards future.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I mean, I'm fine if Etelgar goes; I just wanna make sure there are enough votes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
Putting aside whatever Passing said, I would like to remind Rob that sandboxes are not "leader boards", so much as "record keeping".
Rewrite works.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 1st 2024 at 1:57:22 PM
Feels good, don't it?
Showtime!
In addition, the constant emphasis on how pathetic it is to be outsmarted by an "autistic child" is a really bad look, dude
Edit: thought this was the MB thread, this is zmt relevant to this cut proposal
Edited by Libraryseraph on May 1st 2024 at 3:13:14 PM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
No one said keep it short or don’t be thorough, the tone towards OP is the issue I was quite clear about and Library had another legitimate concern.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Especially because (as someone on the spectrum myself), it's not even factually improbable. I've not seen the movie, but it seems like the kid has high-functioning autism.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Kudrow
Caesar
Yeah I'm fine cutting him but am gonna reiterate that I feel the post took too aggressive an approach and the constant referring to a named major character, Simon, as "autistic kid" is...not great wordage. Like, you name-dropped others who aren't even that important to the film, but when it comes to Simon you just kept saying "autistic kid". Not great.
Edited by Ravok on May 1st 2024 at 12:23:14 PM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Cut Kudrow. But I am echoing Ravok that the post feels very aggressive.
Edited by Bullman on May 1st 2024 at 2:28:07 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Ok, just got back from work and everything I feel has already been said but Library, what does zmt stand for?
In honor of Akira Toriyama
I'll remove the A-word from the post if thats fine
EDIT: Aaaand done
Edited by RobertTYL on May 1st 2024 at 7:14:22 PM
Because of some recent incident about an ex-contributor embellishing monstrosity in their EP(s) to make a candidate count as CM, I've decided to check out some other stuff from future's leaderboard.
Right off the bat, the first CM on their "Live-Action Films" list already raises some eyebrows - I remember watching the film in my teens and that the movie's rather generic, after reading the CM writeup on the relevant movie page, I literally said "that's it?" with a shrug and decide to re-watch that movie — I'm afraid I'm proposing another cut.
The Work
Mercury Rising, from the late 90s starring Bruce Willis and Alec Baldwin - former is the MC, latter is the CM. Plot's mostly forgettable, but I'll just throw in a quick rundown regarding the candidate:
Rundown of Kudrow's deeds according to the EP (that I can confirm DID happen, having seen it recently):
So we're looking at like 4 - 6 deaths for Kudrow, a high-ranking NSA Colonel with loads and loads of resources. But what's really damning is this part: prior to the rooftop confrontation
, the boy is being led up there by a nurse / lady-friend of the MC (the MC is supposed to rendezvous with the boy up there) only to be intercepted by Kudrow and Burrell (which then segues into the final shootout in bulletpoint #3).
Kudrow, whose stated intent is to kill the boy, actually told the innocent woman "you should go home now, and forget you were ever here"... note that Kudrow and Burrell doesn't know that woman; nor does he knew the FBI is hiding nearby or that the MC just hijacked his helicopter.
I think there's a rule that C Ms will perform every nasty deed possible "within their resource limit", Kudrow is a High-ranking NSA Colonel with precisely zero reasons to not just shoot both of them (or tell Burrell to shoot), considering there are no witnesses around. I can buy that Kudrow follows the Why Don't You Just Shoot Him? trope, too, but he clearly lets the unarmed woman leave instead of executing her (or allowing her to board his hecliopter with the kid, then kill them both)... when a legit CM could've ended the climax right then. Which demotes Kudrow from "Colonel Stupid Evil who barely does enough to keep" to "Colonel Stupid Evil who barely does enough to keep AND spares an innocent bystander despite having no pragmatic reasons to do so" .
Anyways, cut.
(Chronology of the previous discussion isn't relevant, self-thumped that part out)
Edited by RobertTYL on May 1st 2024 at 8:29:52 PM