The General Star Wars Thread

I would like to point out that none of us have mentioned how Watto is a Jewish stereotype. Respect people. We are all enlightened and it doesn't need to be brought up.

While we're at it though, is there anything else problematic about Watto, a slaver, being a "not that bad of a slaver?" Something tells me that at least, some people, would find that a little offensive of a concept? Right?

Edited by Patar136 on May 5th 2024 at 9:58:40 AM

If nobody brought it up, why address it?

Pretty much that. We actually get a later example of that happening in Clone Wars - during the arc where Obi-Wan has to go undercover, he ends up temporarily captured by Hutt enforcers on Nal Hutta - because Cad Bane roughened up a random outfit vendor and the Hutts apparently really don't like when you mess with businesses on their turf.

It's less "this random used car dealer has clout with the local crime syndicate" and more "the local crime syndicate doesn't like it when somebody else is shaking people down on their turf".

It's kinda like robbing a store and then finding out the owner was actually paying protection money to a local gang.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on May 5th 2024 at 7:01:00 PM

I don't know, it just hit me is all. Something I thought one of us would have brought up by now.

x4 Both of those are definitely things that have been discussed before. There's a reason that every appearance from Watto or Toydarians in general after TPM has them talking more Italian than anything, to try and beat those allegations. And yeah, people have pointed out the weirdness of him being a "good slaver", though one could argue that bit's purposefully meant to be fucked up in a "he's not as bad as some of the others we've been owned by" way.

I suppose that's fair. Though it does once again kinda run into the weirdness I pointed out of the Hutts apparently having strict law and order in their "hive of scum and villainy" where you supposedly can do whatever without fear of legal reprisal.

Edited by immortaleditor on May 5th 2024 at 10:02:34 AM

Especially not an officer of the Republic.

Edited by M84 on May 6th 2024 at 1:01:56 AM

Yeah, I think the implication there was that Watto, unlike some other slaveowners, doesn't go out of his way to further mistreat his slaves. Just look at bloody Jabba, for example.

I think the best way to put it is this.

Jabba the Hutt wants you to pay your dues. You respect Jabba. But if his henchmen dies, Greedo, you don't give a shit about Greedo's family. Greedo doesn't matter. Jabba does.

Yep. One imagines that anything is a step up from people who are likely to feed you to a rancor because they think it's funny.

That example is ironic because, like, Jabba doesn't give a shit about Greedo's death at all in ANH. He makes a token "you shot poor Greedo" comment in one deleted scene and than in that same deleted scene immediately shrugs it off and gives Han more time to pay off his debt.

Edited by immortaleditor on May 5th 2024 at 10:12:07 AM

I think I'm just gonna say this. Hope this isn't too political and hope to God I don't offend anybody. Ahem. Here goes my attempt.

... If we had a story where a white slaver owned a black slave but we deluded ourselves into saying "oh, but the white slaver treated the black slave well, see? Not as bad the other slavers. See?"..... I wanna say that this probably wouldn't be tolerated as well in any given story.

That is kind of how Watto and Anakin slavery relationship looks to me. If I am just completely off and insane, I'll drop this idea and we can move on. Cause I admit, I don't like to think about this.

Okay, so I'm not insane.

Edited by Patar136 on May 5th 2024 at 10:18:39 AM

That'd definitely be fucked, but if it was meant to be fucked sounding as it was in the movie, I imagine people can be like "okay, yeah, whatever".

Is there really no moral problem with a Jedi stealing a ship from an innocent?

Now, granted, many of the inhabitants of the planet, are smugglers, bounty hunters and similar sketchy characters, but still.

...................

This reminds me of Kotor, where the only way to escape Taris, is to still the smuggling ship of the local crime lord, ( a human version of Jabba).

And you just answered your own question . Just find some asshole and do the mind-trick and get on your way.

Oh but ImmortalEditor think of the poor slavers. We can't disrupt the slave economy that exists on Tatooine. Stealing from slavers, criminals, bounty hunters and more is wrong you know.

The morality and ethics of this franchise are screwed up when you think about it. Slavery is outlawed in our republic. Except for droids. Fuck those droids. They have to lick our boots, without any tongues.

Edited by Patar136 on May 5th 2024 at 10:25:33 AM

Has anyone present implied they think antagonizing slavers is genuinely wrong? It feels like you're making a dig at someone who doesn't actually exist.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 5th 2024 at 10:26:20 AM

I mean, I don't think we're supposed to view it as a good thing that the closest Anakin had to a father figure in his early childhood was a guy whom the nicest thing you could say about was "Well, at least he didn't beat his slaves, I guess?"

I think there's also a bit of a disconnect between how Anakin views Watto and how other people (like Anakin's own mother) view the relationship between him and Watto.

While Anakin loves podracing, Watto is still making a small kid participate in what's an incredibly dangerous activity for monetary gain.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on May 5th 2024 at 7:28:43 PM

Yeah, I mean, in the actual scene where Anakin says that, there's a focus on Padme being clearly like "uh what?".

That being said, this franchise does have some pretty wonky Protagonist-Centered Morality at times, as I've noted before.

Only mildly related, but it really is hilarious how stupidly dangerous pod-racing is. As is the fact that the danger is clearly part of the show, given that the crowd cheers when they see Tuskens taking potshots at the racer.

Edited by immortaleditor on May 5th 2024 at 10:31:26 AM

"Is there really no moral problem with a Jedi stealing a ship from an innocent?"

Calling the people on Tatooine innocent is a stretch. One Jawal seems to recognize. Not a dig at Jawal by the way. You do great. Keep up the good posts, enjoy your perspectives (and also contributions in writers block.)

Tatooine is home to all sorts of scum and villainy.

And yeah, Podracing is one of the most dangerous sports that ever existed in all of sci fi. In the deleted scenes, Watto used a flamethrower. A literal, flamethrower, and nobody cares. Hell, it's really strange that the podracers aren't actually shooting at each other with guns. Well, blasters, but you know what I mean..... Unless you are a Tusken Raider, in which it actually IS guns.

Edited by Patar136 on May 5th 2024 at 10:34:02 AM

Someone's podracer literally explodes at the starting line and all it gets is laughter out of the crowd. Granted, Quadinaros was (miraculously) fine, but still.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 5th 2024 at 10:34:03 AM

I don't think portraying a slave-owner as being not-entirely-evil, to the extent that Watto is, is inherently problematic. The fact that Anakin and Shmi are slaves is still portrayed as a bad thing, which is the important part.

Remember the scene where the Pit Droid got sucked into that generator for the pod? Imagine if that pod just fucking exploded and showered the audience in fire, debris and shrapnel.

Instead, the droid rides it out like a boss. God I love this franchise sometimes.

Yeah I don’t appreciate the straw manning implying I am sympathetic to slavers.

My favorite remark about how dangerous pod-racing is comes from this very wiki where somebody talks about the lore of the Empire outlawing pod-racing and this being seen by many as an example of their anti-alien discrimination since most pod-racers were nonhuman... which is then followed up by the writer pointing out how the ridiculous fatality rates of the sport means the Empire was arguably accidentally saving alien lives by banning it.

As a kid, the guy whose podracer runs into the stalagmite in the cave and he just, like, instantly dies screaming may have freaked me out a little.

Also, I have no idea how the hell Sebulba survived that crash.

You can put all the goofy sound effects and Greg Proops one liners you want onto it, George, it's still gnarly as hell.

They really nailed the whole "mob run underground blood sport" thing. Also the old Podracer games are some of my favorite Star Wars games ever and I wish they would make a comeback.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 5th 2024 at 10:41:41 AM

I watched the podrace scene again with that one song from Jedi: Fallen Order playing in the background, And then again with Mute City. Both times, it strangely worked.

TBF, the music that plays in the final sequence is still incredible. An underrated gem from John Williams that still kicks ass.

Edited by Patar136 on May 5th 2024 at 10:47:16 AM