A very harsh truth that many people aren't willing to realize. You describe most of my thoughts on the show very well. I wish the very best of luck for your future endeavours.
comment #18997 x86x2 21st Apr 13
I think the show is good enough on its own merits. However the fandom has flooded the internet so thoroughly and constantly fills the show with praise that it builds unrealistic expectations for those who have yet to see the show.
comment #18999 Asger 21st Apr 13
I can't agree with you enough.
comment #19010 Lightflame 21st Apr 13
Would be an okay review if it wasn't for all the blatant condescension.
comment #19013 kay4today 21st Apr 13
I won't try to say that the show hasn't been hyped to hell and back, but while Friendship is Magic may not be the work of artistic genius some of its more zealous fans paint it as, it's not as cheap and clichéd as your criticisms (while not entirely invalid) make it out to be, either. "They are not the well rounded characters people believe they are, as they are quite lame." They're more rounded than you're giving them credit for, and just calling them "lame" isn't a critique. If you think they're lame, that's fine, but it's an opinion, not a factual statement about the depth of the characterizations.
comment #19014 Robotnik 21st Apr 13
@son Yes. Yes, it was. "one would at least expect them to hold SOME standards"; See, it starts in the first paragraph, even. Seems like you don't like my opinion.
comment #19025 kay4today 22nd Apr 13
There's so many negative review about this show recently.
comment #19026 flamemario12 22nd Apr 13
Except I was talking about my comment, so it totally works! >:P
comment #19030 kay4today 22nd Apr 13
@ Son I agree with kay4today, it's not like tropers are a special group, just a collection of different people that know of the existence of this site, not to mention that there are indeed several negative reviews about this show. And s/he wasn't doing a no you are, it was indeed very condescending.
comment #19041 marcellX 22nd Apr 13
If we sidestep the "standards" swipe at people who like the show, this review gives you what is wrong with the show from the first paragraph: "I thought it was going to be a gold mine of action/adventure and witty punchlines." Listen, I don't like the show, but I know it's a show geared for eight year old kids. Sure it has a massive fandom, just like plenty of other kid shows, but where does the "gold mine of action adventure" show up? Whether you've intended it or not, you sound like someone who went in wanting something that was a different genre and target audience. It's a kid's show designed to sell toys. You're expecting Saving Private Ryan when you watch Transformers.
comment #19046 fenrisulfur 22nd Apr 13
I see the show as very good when I judge it from kids show standards. The aesops are very obvious and the characters simple, but they're good as what they are and above average compared to most other shows designed for children. Seeing MLP as more than a good kids show is pushing it, I agree.
comment #19060 kay4today 23rd Apr 13
But the hyperfans are the ones who hype the show to ungodly levels. It is that opinion which leaves many people attempting to get into the show disappointed. Look at all the praise, all the fanart, all the discussion. Judging from the sheer amount of fans and praise, you'd imagine a show that could change the world with it's influence. But when a "nonfan" watches it and gets disappointed, it's their fault because their expectations were too high. Please, knock it off.
comment #19063 MrMallard 23rd Apr 13
What do you mean by lacking in talent? If you're talking about the voice actors, you should probably know that at least a few of these actors are just about everywhere already. Look up the wiki articles for Tara Strong, or Grey Delise. You've probably heard them somewhere.
comment #19064 Star1412 23rd Apr 13
It could had been worse it's a really bad argument, everything can always be worse, and the point is that when you disregard something that did happen, and now try to find so many poor loopholes, then yes, you come out as not receiving different opinions well, in fact most of your posts here are like that. I also don't find MLP such a big deal, but compared to the other toddler shows, it has a lot more effort put into it, specially given they don't really have to try that hard and they usually don't, I mean yeah Dora The Explorer teaches Spanish (or English) but it's basis is things like "do you see the red mountain?", it's a freaking red mountain. And I don't think that even with the inputs of the most devoted fans, you can expect that much from a show titled my little pony friendship is magic.
comment #19065 marcellX 23rd Apr 13
@son I was making fun of your nonsensical comment. :P @Mallard wut. Who are you talking to?
comment #19066 kay4today 23rd Apr 13
As a clarification to my earlier comment about being disappointed. It's not wrong to be disappointed, but it is inherently wrong to expect any product motivated tie in to be the "gold mine" described above. That's unrealistic expectation. Fandoms will always make something sound amazing, that's what a fan does. For example if you only listen to brown coat reviews on Firefly, you'd wonder why there isn't a multimillion dollar movie franchise based around the show, or homestuck fans will make it sound like Andrew Hussey is the next Mark Twain. A great deal of the reviews on Tvtropes are from fans. When you want a critical eye, you need to read from a neutral party.
comment #19071 fenrisulfur 23rd Apr 13
@son Is poking holes and trying to pass them as arguments the only way you can discuss?
Saying you don't like the reviewer's opinion is nonsensical?no, saying it's not condescending was, which I highly doubt you actually misinterpreted and just wanted to continue with the trend of pathetic hole pocking.
In light of the fact that YOU said it was "very" condescending, saying "it could have been worse" is a valid counter-argument. Dora the Explorer doesn't have the same peripheral fandom as My little pony. As far as kids shows go, don't try to ignore the phenomenon of the fandom. It's presented as more than a kid's show by the peripheral fans. Most of the nonfans wouldn't have expected much from the show based on the title alone (as you suggested), however they wanted to see what all the fuss was about and so they watched the show... and they were disappointed and/or confounded by its popularity.But that all brakes down when we take into account that you already said to kay (before I even made that post) that it wasn't condescending and that the reason s/he thought it was it was because she didn't like the review, even when the "second" sentence in the "first" paragraph shows it pretty clear. The reviewer said they based this expectation on the "positive" reviews on the site, but there are negative and more neutral reviews, showing that not everyone agrees. There are people who don't like Star Trek and or Star Wars, there are people that do or say they're good, ok, average, decent, etc. then there are the trekies. Limiting the basis of your expectations to just one group of people is a bad idea.
comment #19072 marcellX 23rd Apr 13
Marcellx Seriously, is there an epidemic of projection? It was not condescending based on the fact that worse reviews were made AND the negativity is valid in light of the disappointment from nonfans who don't get the appeal (appeal and popularity are weak terms to describe this phenomenon, it's a subculture spawning memes, fan art, and 'membership nicknames' like brony and pegasister.) It's not just some people watching a show and liking it, it's much bigger than you give it credit for. Therefore, a person has a right to localize their lack of understanding. I would say the same for Pokemon if this was the 90s (and I'm a Pokemon fan though I was a part of that demographic). Stop this apologetism, no one is saying that they don't have the right to enjoy the show, but the fans (really the super fans) are responsible for the backlash.
comment #19075 son 23rd Apr 13
1: "There are worse reviews!" does not in any way less condescending, nobody compared it to other reviews. 2: Understandable condescension (even though I don't think it is) is still condescension.
comment #19077 kay4today 23rd Apr 13
- does not make it
comment #19078 kay4today 23rd Apr 13
Projection again. If their point was meant to generalize all fans and not just the super fans then they are insulting and elitist (and basically condescending) (I will concede that much). But if he or she is addressing the numerous super fans their words are valid. What standards do you have if you are basing your personality on a young children's show? Let's not get into the adult fan art in this fandom. I taught special ed and preschool, I like seseme street and other kid shows but I don't call myself a sesemite or whatever. I still like pokemon and I'm going to buy X version in the fall. I'm not calling myself a Pokefan. Do you identify strongly with your peripheral fandom experience?
comment #19080 son 23rd Apr 13
Here's the problem: He said "I at least expected Tropers to hold some standards"; if he had said something like "those hardcore bronies sure take this show way too seriously, gosh", then that would've been okay. Instead he generalized it as "Tropers". His fault for not elaborating. You don't need to take the show all that seriously while still praising it to hell and back.
comment #19082 kay4today 23rd Apr 13
Once again, no one (that I know of) is saying that they can't enjoy the show. This is about the subculture who makes it bigger than what it is.
comment #19083 son 23rd Apr 13
... I wonder why I even talk to you, considering you're apparently unable to read what other people write properly.
comment #19084 kay4today 23rd Apr 13
condescension must be contagious I said I conceded on that debate, is that not good enough for you?
comment #19085 son 23rd Apr 13
Or could you not read it ;)
comment #19086 son 23rd Apr 13
It was unfortunately too late for that. And now I'll have to live with it forever. ;-;
comment #19087 kay4today 23rd Apr 13
... I wonder why I even talk to you, considering you're apparently unable to read what other people write properly.I think for a while now he just hoping for a Chewbacca Defense result.
comment #19088 marcellX 23rd Apr 13
@Marcell X Read Comment 19080, I'm not trying to intimidate anyone (as the Chewbacca defense states), I conceded on the "condescension" argument because they were too general in their words. I did not get that feeling, but I've been wrong before. The points are still valid though.
comment #19089 son 23rd Apr 13
Thanks for agreeing, then!
comment #19090 kay4today 23rd Apr 13
"The points are still valid though." Can we get on to the rest of the review?
comment #19091 son 23rd Apr 13
Yes, my points are still valid, thanks for agreeing!
comment #19092 kay4today 23rd Apr 13
Not talking about your points. I'm talking about the review, this Isn't a discussion board. It's a comment section where you comment about the review. Let's do that now, or stop posting. What do you say?
comment #19093 son 23rd Apr 13
I know, I was just screwing with you. :P Feel free to comment about the review!
comment #19094 kay4today 23rd Apr 13
I never said you were, who ever said or in your words "stated" that intimidation was a requirement for Chewbacca Defense? I was talking about (as you showed again even on that post) this
- Having semantics or nitpicks about the argument come up repeatedly, either to tire out or distract the opponent, or to waste time.
- If you can shock or confuse your opponent and make them think you are a lost cause and not worth arguing with, you've won.
comment #19095 marcellX 23rd Apr 13
I was talking to son btw
comment #19106 MrMallard 24th Apr 13
And it looked like he became an even bigger buttplug while I was away.
comment #19107 MrMallard 24th Apr 13
but at least he stopped.
comment #19108 MrMallard 24th Apr 13
Man, I didn't expect for so many comments in this review. I'm actually kinda surprised that Kay4today's comment get replied a lot.
comment #19109 flamemario12 24th Apr 13
"And it looked like he became an even bigger buttplug while I was away." .....
comment #19130 son 24th Apr 13
Sorry. I get irritated with people's behaviour and I couldn't help myself. I saw that you and Kay had stopped bickering so I tried to at least slightly rectify the comment. For the record, I find that your fighting was completely ridiculous, and your justifications to keep fighting made no sense.
comment #19131 MrMallard 24th Apr 13
Well, thanks for your totally nooooot pointless post, Mallard!
comment #19138 kay4today 25th Apr 13
"Sorry. I get irritated with people's behaviour and I couldn't help myself. I saw that you and Kay had stopped bickering so I tried to at least slightly rectify the comment." It's difficult to stop when people bring it up. "For the record" apology not accepted, but it's the internet so who cares? I was trying to address the content of the discussion, the condescension debate was not a major nonfactor in the crux of my argument which was (in agreement with your point) that the "hyperfans" need to take responsibility for the hype. That's why I said it wasn't condescending, the reviewer's opinion had merit and to nitpick about it being offensive is a reductionist way of looking at it. To be fair though, Marcell X did address the content as did Kay4today after a while.
comment #19141 son 25th Apr 13
but those were two different issues, the condesending part was "grouping" up everyone who followed one criteria, in this case being a troper, because of the similar view of a minuscule percentage, specially when it was painfully obvious that not even everyone on the demographic driven to specification (tv tropers who have watched and "made a review" about MLP) are still at odds about it, with reviews titled It's my Twilight (no pun intended), I'm not all that impressed, Meh., Friendship? Yes. Magic? No, Overrated. and that's without getting into what they say like "I watched every episode of this cartoon,and I hated it." The issue about fans is that the author said and I quote "After reading all the positive reviews I thought it was going to be a gold mine of action/adventure and witty punchlines. Sadly, I feel that I've been bait-and-switched." well if you're gonna perform a Confirmation Bias on yourself then there's a good chance you will be disappointed.
comment #19147 marcellX 25th Apr 13
Bronies, stop taking this like word of hell and think. You are like an army of online TF 2 Pyros. Please, just please, leave us alone. Countless arguments I have been in with random bronies that take their time to troll me. Also, this is a review. To quote many people in your fanbase, “Not everyone likes what you like”.
comment #20411 whatisahandleagainguys 2nd Aug 13
Haters, stop whining please. It's getting obnoxious.
comment #20424 kay4today 2nd Aug 13
Indeed it is.
comment #20439 qtjinla15 3rd Aug 13
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