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A timeless formula.
The recent Avengers film, while noted for being ostensibly a Wheden film, still has a few pitfalls, despite being relatively entertaining: it has relatively little character development. It all boils down to roughly 1/3 action sequence, 2/3 acceptable amount of plot, following a traditional formula I first saw used in Ben Affleckís Daredevil, which is noted for containing nothing notable. Avengers is the same way, with the exception of a giant fish lizard thing rendered acceptably well in CGI.

Among other things is the exceptional amount of Whedon dialogue, by which I mean the jokes are funny, such as Loki getting ragdolled, but the dramatic scenes, designed specifically not to make you laugh, ended up being the most humorous parts of the film. Deaths are riddled with narm in sufficient amounts to make this overall a very hammy film. Some characters are outright useless. Captain America pulls a lever and hits things with his shield. End Scene. Black Widow kicks people and has tits. End Scene.

Pros of this movie:
  • Fan Service, in the form of Black Widowís tits, and Chris Evens in spandex.
  • A better portrayal of the Hulk.
  • A few funny moments
  • And the mandatory 40 minute long action scene.
At the end of the day, we are left with a generic, formulaic, superhero movie with a unique cast, written by the guy who made Firefly, so unless you are a huge comics fan, this is probably not the best movie out for you.

Haters gotta hate. Let's be nice and not cause a massive Flame War. It would be amusing if the Hulk reviewer held up to his promise though.
comment #14383 encrypted12345 22nd May 12
Captain America certainly wasn't useless. Not only was he taking as many foes down with him as Tony and Thor, but he ended up leading the team and telling them where they should head to deal with the alien waves. Black Widow got the plan out of Loki, brought Hawkeye back on the team, hijacked an alien flier, and used that flier to get the portal opening device and find out how to shut it down.
comment #14384 Tuckerscreator 22nd May 12
Captain America's primary plot point was to pull the lever of anti-death for Tony, and then spent the rest of his movie acting as obligitory leader, mainly because the other team members were and egotistical alchoholic, a phisical god more concerned for the macguffin than earth, a spy, a cold sniper with arrows, and the hulk. And also keep in mind that the other team members like tony, thor, and hulk, weren't just taking out individual mooks in an endless swarm. Hawkeye reads like a failed attempt at a badass woobie,and black widow got a plan out of loki 10 minutes after the entire audience figured it out due to loki's conversation with Fury entirely about the hulk, which served no real purpose anyway, since the hulk ended up falling out of the helicarrier. That was a convoluted plot point to allow whats his face from Iron Man 2 to die dramatically and unite the team. It only makes since from the perspective of a writer desperate to make the plot work in a semi-coherant fashion.
comment #14385 Esprit 22nd May 12
'unless you are a huge comics fan, this is probably not the best movie out for you?' Then what about the thousands of people who don't really read a lot of comics but are familiar with the other movies in the MCU that loved this movie?

I agree that the movie doesn't have a lot of character development for Iron Man, Cap, and Thor, but it does have some character development for Black Widow and Hawkeye, in terms of backstory and their interactions with each other and with Loki. So I wouldn't exactly call Black Widow useless. Captain America led the team in the final showdown in New York, so I wouldn't really call him useless either.
comment #14386 higherbrainpattern 22nd May 12
I agree with your point about character development. For some characters, namely Iron Man and Loki, I thought that there was actually a regression in characterization.

As for "haters gotta hate", or "never express your own opinion, just go with the will of the masses", I read Whedon's run on X-Men, and I thought this movie was just part of his typical superhero formula, with the constant snarky dialogue and inability to create dramatic moments. But if people enjoy his usual routine, that's fine.
comment #14387 CasualBanshee 22nd May 12
I ... like things because of my own opinion not because of the masses.

Did the movie have a lot of character development? No.
Did it have a complex plot? No.
Was it deep? Fuck no.

Was it fun? Fuck Yes.

I like the Avengers for what it is. A fun movie with quirky and entertaining character interactions and a simplistic but awesome plot. I said haters gonna hate because the reviewer is entitled to his own opinion and no one can or will change his mind. Same goes with me since Likers gotta like. Flame Wars are stupid and meaningless.
comment #14388 encrypted12345 22nd May 12 (edited by: encrypted12345)
"Haters gonna hate" has never appealed to me, it just seems... dismissive and glib. It's entirely possible someone has a valid reason for disliking something. I think that particular meme is often used for the purpose of basically saying, "You have a different opinion? Well, screw you, you don't get to have an opinion! You're nothing more than a hater!"

I'm not trying to start a flame war with anyone. But so far, there seems to be a lot of hostility from people who think the film is great towards those who don't think it's great. One of these reviews praised the film but pointed out a few flaws, and that review was lambasted by other tropers for daring to have anything negative at all to say.

Seriously, "Note to any other reviewers: I am not actually a giant green monster hell-bent on hunting you down and crushing you for an internet review. At least, I'm not a giant green monster," and "It would be amusing if the Hulk reviewer held up to his promise though"? I understand that it's just jokes, but why is this sort of spite necessary? I get that these people are fans of the movie; I am a fan of Marvel and its movies, but not this specfic movie.

If people enjoy the film, good for them, but other people did not, and the latter's opinions are just as valid as the former's.

comment #14390 CasualBanshee 22nd May 12
^ Although in the OP's comment it kinda looks like that's the case (it's rather factualistic). Not to mention that the last line of the review only works when your opinion is not the minority.
comment #14393 marcellX 22nd May 12 (edited by: marcellX)
^^ -_- I ... was trying to actually prevent that type of situation by politely asking future posters not cause any Flame Wars. My second comment was snarky I admit, but I was just playing along with the Hulk joke review.

^True, since more than just die-hard comic fans enjoy this movie. I don't even read American Comics. At all. It seems more likely for people who are comic fans to hate this movie due to elitism or something like that.

For the record, other than the last statement, I think the reviewer's review and the opinion it states are perfectly valid and justified. I just disagree with it.

Oh, the reason why I felt the urge to go ahead post a first comment about not causing a Flame War is because the review's title was "A TIMELESS FORMULA" but was negative. It seemed provocative.
comment #14395 encrypted12345 22nd May 12 (edited by: encrypted12345)
From The-editing-room abridged script

'Nah, thatís just writer/director Joss Whedon dialogue. Funny when itís trying to be funny, hilarious when itís trying to be serious.'

Was there some influence from there in this review or is this a thing that a lot of people know/think? I don't really have enough experience of Josh Whedon, just Firefly/Serenity/Avengers/Dr Horrible to judge it's accuracy. It's true I've never seen him do good plot dialogue. Serenity's plot felt as tacked on as and Dr Horrible succeeded by having a character arc rather than plot, so I guess I've never seen any evidence to the contrary?
comment #14396 Tomwithnonumbers 23rd May 12
I didn't enjoy the movie as much as others and I think it could have been better . . . and therefore, my opinion doesn't count? I'm just waiting for the accusations of "Youre Just Jealous that you're not as artistically talented as Joss."
comment #14464 CasualBanshee 27th May 12
who said your opinion doesn't count?
comment #14467 marcellX 27th May 12
I actually enjoyed the movie waaay more than I predicted I would. Sure, the director attempted to augment the storyline to appeal to the masses and I admit, there were a few plot holes (Loki had the ability to control minds, why didn't he just take Nick Fury under his control rather than controlling lesser agents?) but it's a good popcorn movie.
comment #14684 Danniiee 6th Jun 12
I have to disagree. I'm not a huge fan of superheroes, and I loved the movie. I also have to disagree on the narm; I didn't see narm anywhere. Yes, there was a lot of snarking, but look at the characters involved. I thought it worked great, personally.
comment #16996 SpamWarrior3000 27th Nov 12
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