Reviews Comments: Even the greats can fall.
Even the greats can fall.
Ah, Greg Weisman. The man who created Gargoyles and gave the world the best damn Spidey series ever. When I learned they were making a show that aimed to be a successor to both the DCAU and my beloved Teen Titans, I was cautiously optimistic. And then I learned Weisman was on board. Surely, this would be the true successor to the DCAU - or at least, something to make up for the cancellation of the brilliant Batman The Brave And The Bold. Sadly, I was wrong. It started off well enough - the four sidekicks, Speedy, Robin, Kid Flash and Aqualad fighting a bunch of ice-themed supercriminals with their mentors. And then it hit me - Speedy was an insufferable prick. Fortunately, he was removed from the main team, but then we got Superboy, who I can't help imagining with the voice Linkara uses for the infamously whiny Superboy-Prime. Not only that, but Aqualad, the team leader, was bland - he had no real personality to speak of. He was an attempt at The Stoic, but was just boring as all hell. I held out hope that it would get better. Sadly, it got worse. In a stunning display of Canon Defilement, they made Superman - yes, the nicest DC hero - a Lawful Stupid deadbeat "dad" who would not accept Superboy as his son, even though a major part of Superman's character is that he's ALWAYS excited to discover another Kryptonian, even if they're just a clone. As for the other two heroes: while Miss Martian, like Kid Flash and Robin, is tolerable, she comes off as a half-hearted attempt at Starfire without any of her quirks. As for Artemis, she's one of the most thoroughly bitchy female characters since Asuka Sohryuu. Regardless, I still held out hope it would get better. The show then shattered that hope with the reveal of The Light's members - only four made any sense, with the other three not fitting at all - and the worst portrayal of The Joker in history, all in the same episode. I dropped the show in disgust after that. And when Weisman said the reason there weren't any more females on the team was because of "tradition," I gave up hope for both this show and any future projects by a man I once admired. Despite great animation, character designs and (mostly) good casting, I give it a C-.
I'm a Teen Titans fan myself so I can see why old fans would do so, but I never bothered to compare this show or it's characters to that show. That's I have to say on your comparisons, and your review.
comment #13011 VeryMelon 29th Feb 12
Very Melon, I do admit it's often best to not directly compare it to something, but my problem with Young Justice is that it's trying to start up a new DCAU without any of the things that made the Timmverse such a success - likeable protagonists, villains who, while competent, don't play every other character for chumps, and good plotting. About the only thing YJ has over the Timmverse is the animation quality, and that's because it has a higher budget and came out five years after the Timmverse ended. I tried to like YJ, but it was too flawed for me to enjoy. A good work succeeds despite its flaws - in YJ, its flaws, such as unlikeable protagonists, boring invincible villains who only succeed because the other villains and the heroes toss around the Idiot Ball, a Romantic Plot Tumor as forced as Anakin and Padme's, or, in a similar example of a once great superhero creator churning out a poorly done work - the Kevin and Gwen romance, and an overuse of Wangst... It's just not a good show, IMO, and is easily the weakest show WB animation's produced since Loonatics Unleashed.
comment #13012 AllsparkSpinOut 29th Feb 12
Even Loonatics Unleashed was a masterpiece compared to Young Justice.
comment #13013 MisterDT 29th Feb 12
Mostly, I agree wholeheartedly. Though I personally quite like Aqualad and don't like Kid Flash because even if he is stoic, Aqualad is a nice guy. Kid Flash is as big a jerk as his pal Speedy, especially towards Artemis, whose bitchiness kind of becomes justified in that light. I also think Robin's okay too; whenever he's a jerk, at least he's pretty funny about it. But Superboy, Kid Flash, Speedy, and Artemis are all total jerks and Miss Martian is most defenitely a poor man's Starfire who's wearing Raven's cape. Superman...do not get me started on that Character Derailment. There are some people who actually like Superman being a dick because it makes him "less perfect", but there should be a limit to how that's done and this Superman's "flaws" are not done well. And the Light...my God, are they bad! Just a bunch of DC villains thrown together in a strange Illuminati group where everything goes just as planned for them because their pawns are all idiots. I'm just thankful that Joker isn't in the group for real because he was badly designed, totally mischaracterized, and Brent Spiner did an awful job at his voice, too. I wish they'd cancel this thing and bring back The Spectacular Spiderman, 'cause if there's any Greg Weisman show that deserves to get cancelled, it's this.
comment #13014 ManwiththePlan 29th Feb 12 (edited by: ManwiththePlan)
Mister DT: Pffffff, YJ's bad, but it's not as actively wretched as Loonatics... Aside from some exceptionally bad episodes. Manwiththe Plan: God, I can't stand when people want Superman to be a jerk just to make him "less eprfect." I mean, hell - people complained about Superman Returns and Supes being a "deadbeat dad," buat at least when he found out the kid was his son, he wanted to raise him. YJ Supes is just an asshole who reminds me of Val-Yor from Teen Titans, but with the racism against Tamaraneans replaced with clonism.
comment #13018 AllsparkSpinOut 1st Mar 12
While I haven't seen this show, I think that to write off Weisman permanently is absurd; everyone makes missteps now and then. That's like saying "Dollhouse was crap, so I'm not going to bother with the Avengers movie; screw you, Whedon!" (disclaimer: I actually thought Dollhouse was good, just not great like Buffy, Angel, or Firefly)
comment #13046 psycher7 4th Mar 12 (edited by: psycher7)
^ Well I wouldn't know, seeing as I wrote Whedon off as a creative sell-out long ago.
comment #13048 ManwiththePlan 4th Mar 12
I think the problem with this show is that Weisman's just trying to do too much. He mentioned that in the first season only he's going to have between 100 and 200 DC characters appear, but a lot of these are just cameos and short scenes that completely rewrite the characters. He's focusing too much on making this so grand and big and estblashing everyone who's ever appeared in comics then on the actual characters. His a-plots actually seem to be really good and I like how he's focusing each episode on a particular character, but his b-plots really need some work. And the Light subplot is written REALLY badly. It seems like he's just trying to redo the Xantos Gambit and failing. Anyway, I like this show and write a lot of fanfiction for it, but it's not the best show I've ever watched. It's very far from the greatness of the DCAU and even Teen Titans. They've done some really great things with this show but they've also done so many bad things that I think it evens out. I don't think this show's going to get any better this season but I'm once this show is established and they are able to focus it more then next season will be better.
comment #13050 KaNugget 4th Mar 12
Exactly. The a-plotting is good, but the characterization is where it all falls apart and, combined with how terrible the Light subplot is, just makes the whole thing smell like teen spiri - er, teen Wangst.
comment #13061 AllsparkSpinOut 5th Mar 12
Ka Nugget hit the nail on the head on him trying to do too much. He's clearly trying to firmly establish his series as the successor to the DC Animated Universe, but wherewas the DCAU built up to that point (first BTAS, then STAS, then TNBA, then BB, then JL and THEN the heavily-cast JLU), he's trying to cram everything in right from the start. And likewise, he saw how recharacterized characters tended to work in said DCAU and tried to do it with EVERYONE. Basically... he's looking at some of the things that worked in the DCAU and applying them wholesale to his YJ universe, without taking a closer look at WHY they worked in those specific instances.
comment #13062 MisterDT 5th Mar 12
Greg's actually ALWAYS tried to do too much with his shows, really. He had an entire expanded universe of series' planned out for Gargoyles that he simply couldn't make happen, and he had so much plans for the long run of The Spectacular Spiderman that instead of tying up most loose ends at the end of the second season in case of cancellation (which happened, unfortunately), he left alot of stuff hanging and the series ended on a cliffhanger. He overreached in what he assumed he could accomplish. The man's a great writer but he has his problems, and this is probably his biggest failing. Young Justice shows it better than ever.
comment #13068 ManwiththePlan 5th Mar 12 (edited by: ManwiththePlan)
Correction: He USED to be a great writer when he could write likeable characters and villains who weren't blatant Villain Sues.
comment #13097 AllsparkSpinOut 7th Mar 12
^ Hey now, we don't know if this series is an indication of how he'll write everything from now on. He's probably just been trying something with this series that really hasn't worked out.
comment #13104 ManwiththePlan 7th Mar 12
Yeah. Let's hope he can fix it, because one of my favorite superheroes is being brought on - Jaime Reyes.
comment #13140 AllsparkSpinOut 9th Mar 12
Great review; it sums up a lot of how I feel about the series, too. That said, Artemis isn't anywhere near as bad as Asuka—and this is coming from someone whose favorite Eva character is Asuka. Yeah, the Superman thing really bugs me, too, and I do echo what Manwiththe Plan said about Weisman having ideas that tend to overstep his own limitations. That said, the people who don't really fit into the Light: is it safe to assume Klarion is one of them? If not, who are the three, then?
comment #13466 Anicomicgeek 26th Mar 12 (edited by: Anicomicgeek)
No, freely assume as it does not make sense in a perspective.
comment #13472 qtjinla15 27th Mar 12
I'm curious: How do some of the members of the Light not make any sense? And where did you hear that crap about not adding any more female members because of "tradition"? Last time I recalled, Zatanna joined the team, with Rocket joining as well.
comment #13481 GamerSlyRatchet 27th Mar 12
Tradition? Who made that dumb comment?
comment #13490 qtjinla15 28th Mar 12
^ Greg Weisman, apparently.
comment #13496 ManwiththePlan 28th Mar 12
That's not true. He only said that the very initial line up was a nod to the first line-up of the Teen Titans (Robin, Speedy, Aqualad, Kid Flash), with no Wonder Girl due to rights issues. The nod ended when Speedy left the team and Superboy and Ms. Martian were added in.
comment #13499 GamerSlyRatchet 28th Mar 12
I like this show. it's not the best, but it's really cool. plus it has a few hot chicks in it
comment #13524 RobbieRotten 29th Mar 12
^ That's not enough reason to call it "good", though.
comment #13527 ManwiththePlan 29th Mar 12
^ s/he didn't call it good
comment #13538 marcellX 29th Mar 12
I am a he.
comment #13563 RobbieRotten 30th Mar 12
Well, I mostly disagree. But since you've seem to have touched upon every problem people have with it, I can't call this a bad review.
comment #13758 noitsnot 9th Apr 12
Final episodes on Youtube.
comment #13789 qtjinla15 11th Apr 12
Uh, no. What he said was that they didn't want cram the premiere with too much stuff, so they chose to homage the original Teen Titans (starting with Robin, KF, and Aqualad) and Young Justice comics (Superboy joining with Robing and KF) and had to introduce the female members later. If you're genuinely disappointed with Weisman and the show, that's fine, but don't be an whiny little shit and make stuff up to make him look bad because you feel betrayed. also, all of the new additions to the team aside from Red Arrow in the first season were girls, so that negates your false complaint anyway.
comment #13791 Brokenshell44 11th Apr 12
Although I do believe that this show has its problems (the Superboy/Miss Martian relationship just feels really fake to me, and at times it does seem like Weisman puts way too much details into his shows), I actually really like this show. Also, am I the only one who actually likes this show's version of the Joker? I mean, sure he's nowhere near as good as Mark Hamill's Joker, but he's really not that bad.
comment #13803 llawliet 12th Apr 12
^ I don't really like him, but I understand what they were trying to do and respect it, and I don't see how this is he worst Joker ever ( especially when The Batman gave us dreadlock deep voice gorilla foot Joker..)
comment #13805 Brokenshell44 12th Apr 12
^ Even Joker from The Batman, despite his looks, was more true to the character than this one, though. The problem was that this show's Joker, in design, voice, and writing, was just a psychopathic thug in clown make-up rather than...well, the Joker. I mean, multiple personalities? The Joker does not suffer from that sort of insanity!
comment #13812 ManwiththePlan 13th Apr 12 (edited by: ManwiththePlan)
Yes, I agree with what is said above. He just seemed like a thug and his voice does not suit him at all. He's the Joker, he's not supposed to be that low key. And no, not the worse Joker as there is still a chance he can develop.
comment #13827 qtjinla15 13th Apr 12
Wait, wait....you took the "multiple personality" line seriously? That was just Joker banter. And considering today's reveal about Superboy and Miss Martian, I'd hardly call it "fake" anymore like I originally thought.
comment #13843 GamerSlyRatchet 14th Apr 12
^ I couldn't really tell because Brent Spiner delievered so deadpan seriously.
comment #13889 ManwiththePlan 18th Apr 12
given that Joker's the Trope Codifier of Multiple Choice Origin Stories, I'd say multiple personality disorder wouldn't be too far off base. That said, the deadpan delivery was definitely _not_ Joker. Oh well, it's just one measly stain on what has been an excellent first season.
comment #13939 romxxii 23rd Apr 12
The Joke ris a fictinal charter his insaity si whatever teh writers ay it is!
comment #14039 CodeRobin 28th Apr 12
comment #14040 CodeRobin 28th Apr 12
Well, I seem to be in the minority in that I generally enjoyed everything the writers did with the season, save for introducing Rocket only to be a love interest to Aqualad and promptly removing her. But I don't read comics at all and was too young to have throughly enjoyed Gargoyles, so that's probably why I'm not as furious
comment #14107 Blacknumber 2nd May 12
As an adult and DC Comics fan, I'm not particularly impressed with the show. I've only watched the first three episodes but Teen Titans had a much better team dynamic. Superboy being a douche is not helping either. Miss Martian just comes off as being a bad Starfire expy. The fight scenes are generic and I dislike Robin, Dick Grayson, who is my favorite character in DC Comics because they gave him annoying Buffy Speak lingo in order to make him appeal to young boys and teens, he never talks like that in the mainstream comics and the show's writing is average at best. I guess I'm spoiled by better writing in DC's New 52, and the fact that the show says people will die, but I've not heard about anybody dying yet.
comment #15444 mglittlerobin 19th Jul 12
While I enjoy the show, you do make some good points in your review. Linkara's superboy-prime voice; I totally kept thinking that! Angst is good for character, but too much (even for good reason) can alienate the audience. The Light are threatening, but they take sooooo long to get fleshed out, and succeed at everything, I don't see any reasonable reason for them to be defeated; they should have more flaws. However, I do like How the Season finale plan was set up, and not just an Asspull Ms. Martian's catchphrase is annoying (The tragedy of it was nice, but I still find it annoying), and Robin using the root words is as well (but I don't think detracts as much). Superman is the friend to all things (almost all), and is, as you say, the nicest DC hero (I don't know If I agree with that, but I need to read more comics), Superboy is a clone "stealing" Superman's face, and yet Superman would still accept him, he is the ultimate Lawful Good (to me anyway). Season 2, however, rectifies my Superman complaint though. I agree with the Joker complaints. I'm not feeling the voice, the design is just sorta off to me (He's too skinny, I think), and He's not as "funny" as other jokers. I don't agree with your total opinion, but you do make some good points, and your argument makes a lot of sense. Kudos.
comment #16013 DrPsyche 4th Sep 12
the design is just sorta off to me (He's too skinny, I think)More often than not the Joker is very skinny
comment #16014 marcellX 4th Sep 12
Why is this review always the one that's bumped? Allspark Spin Out has another review he made later that completely changes his opinion on the show.
comment #16015 VeryMelon 4th Sep 12
"Why is this review always the one that's bumped?" Because of comments.
comment #16034 Estvyk 7th Sep 12
@Estvyk If this review was made before the other, then it has been bumped up because it was edited at a later date, and the most recent date stamp appears first. This happened to a few of my reviews.
comment #16105 DrPsyche 12th Sep 12
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