Reviews Comments: The strange case of Daisuke/Davis
The strange case of Daisuke/Davis
This review is a bit out of ordinary, since it mainly concerns one character, but I believe that his unique characterization (or rather the lack of it) reveals a lot about the series. In short, I believe that Davis is the only case of a main character that shines in media other that the one he stars in. In V-Tamer, for example he doesn't know why he should help his so called "friends". In his perspective, all they ever do is hurt him by dismissing his ideas, and it takes a while for him to realize that they were actually keeping him from danger. While Davis would be described by most as a simple minded dumb jock that doesn't think at all, I think that he was supposed to be a immature kid that simply has trouble focusing for long periods (i.e., only thinks for a short while before making a decision) and above all, he is someone who While aware of his buttmonkey status is unable to avoid it (since he has trouble thinking ahead). What does this mean? The most obvious effect is that he can't stand people that have it easier than him. This is why he butts heads with TK and dislikes the digimon emperor (which would also allow him to easily empathize with the spore children). It is also a possible reason why he wants to be with Kari (him being with someone who he thinks of as perfect would definitely raise his self-esteem), but most of all is the reason why he accepts Ken so quickly. After all, he can see that the world screwed Ken over far more than it did him, and (perhaps instinctively) knows that if Ken overcame his problems, then so could he. The above would explains why Davis took so long to accept Willis and why he could only relate to him when he understood what a hard decision Willis had to make. It would also explain why he is particularly competitive (i.e. desires to upstage everyone). And its this perspective that prevents him from confronting his friends (since to him that would be the same as hurting them), which would make his problem with attacking agumon understandable. As such, his final development would consist in his heart knowing that to get anything, he would need to work for it, and thus could not accept have what he wanted given to him in the illusion. But as any fan knows all of these potential ideas were scrapped for a nonsensical series of events, and that highlights just how bad 02's writing really was.
Here are some points I have for you. 1. Daisuke does shine in the anime. Unfortunately the way they made Daisuke shine, is by dimming the other chosen children. 2. Daisuke does not accept Ken on his own, rather it was the Digimental of miracles that convinced Daisuke that Ken was not evil. 3. Its hard to believe that Daisuke would know a anything about hard work. After all, when Daisuke accomplishes something, its through luck and/or help, not through effort. 4. While the writing was bad, the lack of planning would have made almost anything an asspull.
comment #11526 LeithSol 26th Nov 11
Okay, here are my anwsers: 1) Daisuke does have awesome moments in the anime, but they never manage to make him capable of any depth, which to me means ruining a character 2)Okay, I've got to say I don't see how did the digimental of miracles convince him of anything regarding Ken, but still I just think the above should be the reason rather any reason they made up 3)That actually got an interesting lampshade in Revenge of Diaboromon when Ken wonders if any miraculous solution shouldn't have appeared by now (which it does right afterwards, hilariously). However, note that they had been running ragged before, and that is the kind of hard work Daisuke has to do; everything he does never goes well at first try. And it's only after he has tried, and failed that a solution appears, and if you think about it that also adds insult to injury since it means that he had never actually succeeded before. And it is that string of failures that should have been gradually changed to sucesses by having him actually make the right decisions, which he never gets to make in the anime because by the end things happen for the wrong reasons. 4)Although I agree with the need for planning, I must say that if a change is gradual, usually that never comes off as a asspull. Still, the writing did suck, despite inicially having some great ideas.
comment #11527 luislucas 26th Nov 11
Daisukes only looks awesome because everyone else gets Worfed. How many times does Takeru give up hope before the episode 50? The same Takeru that did not lose hope even when death or failure where the only options. Sigh... Daisuke is not the only ruined character. Its silly I know, but the digimental of miracles is the crest of kindness somehow and it told Daisuke Kens true heart. Also, Daisuke was very angry with Ken at first and wanted to "take him down a notch", so its not like he did not fully trust him after he learned he was the Kaiser.
comment #11561 LeithSol 27th Nov 11
Judging by his popularity, I've got to say the writer's attempt failed. And I see writing is really bad if they consider THAT a valid excuse for him to emphasize with Ken so completely. Although I thought he only wanted to take him down a notch before Ken stopped being the emperor, he most definitely accepted Ken after he saw the state he was in. Anyway, I was just trying to demonstrate the kind of character Davis should have based on how he was initially presented, the decisions he makes and the characterization he gets when he is written properly (i.e, not for most of 02).
comment #11568 luislucas 27th Nov 11
Davis is actually a very well done character on paper. And it's not because of the The Worf Effect that he was the only one to except Ken at first,the only one who did not immediately try to comfort Yolei and Cody's wussy stance on Digimon. Even TK and Kari were not so adamant And what about Yolei? She's just Davis with a few more brains,except far more stubborn and like I said wussy (Eh hem "Oh no I can't kill Lady Devimon because she has a heart"). She doesn't seem to have any depth like Cody or even any implied Crouching Moron Hidden Badass like Davis. Her final dream is easily the shallowest of them all. It seems Yolei can just be looked the other way because she isn't the goggles person and isn't the Butt Monkey. She doesn't even seem at all to resemble the Crests given. Sincerity easily fits Cody better,and Love is definitely more like Ken. Davis definitely fits Courage and after a little more observation fits Friendship. Definitely agree the writing for Davis could've been better,but it definitely was much better than Yolei
comment #11570 terlwyth 27th Nov 11
That all has the hallmarks of The Worf Effect. And lest we forget, the digimentals have never been and never will be crests.( Digimental of miracles does not count. )
comment #11573 LeithSol 27th Nov 11
I didn't use Yolei as an example because of two reasons: 1) Her best appearance outside of the series was a near cameo in movie 3, so I didn't have much to support my theory. 2) In my view, she never became a character in the first place. At most, I gather she was supposed to be a modern girl, with a dash of a tech-savy otaku and independence (which for the japanese is really unusual). Any further analysis would be personal opinion, but I could be wrong so I would advise to read the character analysis webpage whose link is in the Digimon page .
comment #11575 luislucas 27th Nov 11
Are you people seriously trying to argue about good characterization and plot in a show like Digimon?
comment #11582 eveil 27th Nov 11
Yes, because digimon ranks among Card Captor Sakura, Moster Rancher and Princess Tutu as exceptions to the rule of badly thought kids shows; it has a plot that isn't an excuse, and it also brings up interesting issues (and I'm talking about all seasons except Xros Wars). Most of all it's characterization is extremely strong, or at least it's supposed to be, so by all rights the lack of characterization is an important issue.
comment #11585 luislucas 28th Nov 11 (edited by: luislucas)
Too bad it resolves most of its conflicts by using the power of friendship to upgrade the arbitrary power levels of the mons. Oh no, we're all going to die! Use the power of friendship/believe in yourself for a deus ex machina! The characterization is generic shounen crap. Meaning, you have a hot-headed idiot for your main protagonist (Except Tamers), an anti-hero rival who's usually the opposite of the main protagonist, and give the rest of the cast a glaring and unique quirk in an attempt at variety.
comment #11586 eveil 28th Nov 11
That is indeed a good description of the most characters of adventure 02, with the exception of Ken (who got an extremely good amount of character development, reaching well into the depths of seinen), and Iori who in no way is made of a single quirk, and struggles with his sense of family, duty and honor which, even though are typical japanese values, are far from presented properly in generic shonen crap. The power of friendship/believe in yourself is used as a mechanic (which indirectly is supposed to help character development) so complaining about it is bit like complaining about ninjas using new chackra techniques in Naruto. Besides, I am reviewing exactly to demonstrate how poor is the writing of the tv series by comparing it to the movies and the manga chapter from the very same series, whereas there are for the moment 7, very different series. Judging all of the digimon franchise by one series would be like calling the Gundam franchise depressing and traumatic just because of Victory Gundam.
comment #11597 luislucas 28th Nov 11
No, it's a broad description of seasons 1-4. Some seasons lack one of these (Season 3 didn't have a hot-headed idiot, anti-hero rival, or the quirky supporting cast, Season 2 had a villain turned protagonist instead of an anti-hero, and two members of the 4 quirky supporting cast didn't really have quirks). Season 1 and 4 fit these perfectly, however.
- The power of friendship/believe in yourself is used as a mechanic (which indirectly is supposed to help character development) so complaining about it is bit like complaining about ninjas using new chackra techniques in Naruto.
comment #11599 eveil 28th Nov 11
So frontier used the power of friendship to solve every single battle when it didn't have any partners to be friends with in the first place? (not to say the writers came up with good reasons instead, and I'm not also talking about the pokemonesque ending). Besides, the power of friendship failed several times; one example is the first episode, when despite all partners digivolving Kuwagamon still threw all of them down a cliff. Anyway, it's surprising you mention the difference in power levels when they are given an adequate explanation, and it's not nearly as simple as seems; The two mega metal mons were sent flying until they gained experience fighting the other dark masters (note; no power of friendship involved here), and were only defeated by a broken ability (a bit like a boss spamming one hit kill moves). Piedmon sucked at hand to hand combat (most ultimate mons managed to stand up to him, not just magna angemon), and the angels (including Angewomon) were noticeably super effective against evil long before (And I don't hear pokemon fans complaining about type effectiveness). Besides, Piedmon only got sucked into the gate of destiny because those two mega metal warriors attacked him at the same time. Not to say there aren't Deus Ext Machinas; Magna Angemon just happening to be able to reverse Piedmon's spell was one of them, but I'm surprised you didn't mention the battle with Apocalymon, which was won with nothing more than Deus Est Machinas (the same type that had appeared before, so at least it was consistent) but even then they had to struggle a lot. Digimon is especially notable for introducing problems that other kids anime wouldn't dare (remember, digimon is aimed at seven year olds and above. Even Tamers), having the characters really suffer and showing the aftereffects of that suffering afterwards (an example from the first series was when Hikari got sick), and that is far cry from Deus Est Machinas solving everything .Heck, even if you just shunned works that have fictional characters being unharmed by things that should have hurt them as an Deus Est Machina then you wouldn't be left with much. Anyway, because this is getting too long: Overall, the digimon anime turned out good characters and plots (even though recently the anime has been failing in that regard), which is why the badly done examples are so noticeable and therefore worthy of complaint.
comment #11603 luislucas 28th Nov 11 (edited by: luislucas)
Matt is NOT an Anti-Hero,he's practically the Ideal Hero most of the time. Yes he has his problems,but he never makes the decisions an anti-hero would. Besides they really play around with the whole Red Oni Blue Oni thing towards the end of Digimon Adventure And the rest of the cast "quirky",sounds more like you don't want to say kind of deep. I cannot name another anime after Digimon Adventure where my least favorite character develops into one of my favorites The only things wrong with Adventure are these 1) Chrome Digizoid used for Deus Ex Machina (If it was already known why didn't Zudomon just crack open Metal Seadramon's head? Seems more like they made that up on spot,since they didn't want Matt to find them.) 2) Too much Diabolous Ex Machina (Especially in Episodes 8,37,52,54) 3) Too many Metal Megas (Metal Etemon,Metal Seadramon,Machinedramon which ironically Metal Garurumon never battled) 4) Writing decline after Myotismon [Puppetmon had two filler episodes that could've been anywhere else, the other three Dark Masters hardly had any time,and Apocalymon was literally a Giant Space Flea From Nowhere] 5) Sora went Out Of Focus after 26,making her my least favorite by the end.
comment #11606 terlwyth 28th Nov 11
1. Zudomon hammer only hit Metal Etemon because he stood there like a dope, and other then the hole in his armor he may as well not have been hit. 2. I feel that the Diabolus Ex Machina balance out the Deus Ex Machina. 3. Why is it ironic that Metal Garurumon never battled Machinedramon? 4. The Dark Masters arc needed more episodes period. Apocalymon could have been worked into the story better. 5. I disagree. I do not think that Sora ever went Out Of Focus. Yamato, Mimi and Joe did go Out Of Focus for a few episodes.
comment #11612 LeithSol 29th Nov 11
Fine, I'll take "It's good for a kids show" as a valid answer.
comment #11615 eveil 29th Nov 11
^ who said it was anything else?
- is generic shounen crap.Who are you going to whine about?I want to start with every single shonen author and end with every single MMORPG.
comment #11627 marcellX 29th Nov 11 (edited by: marcellX)
Complaining about a show you don't like in the reviews section? Unforgivable!
comment #11650 eveil 1st Dec 11
^ nice try but I'm not condemning you for it or anything of the sort, I'm merely just pointing it out.
comment #11662 marcellX 1st Dec 11
Calling it a problem sorta implies a condemnation.
comment #11673 eveil 2nd Dec 11
doesn't actually imply it but ok, then here is me telling you it wasn't done wit the purpose of condemnation as I said, I'm just pointing it out.
comment #11703 marcellX 3rd Dec 11
You're gay. The problem is that you're gay. You don't see any difference between these two?
comment #11710 eveil 3rd Dec 11
@eveil Yeah I do You're gay could in fact be a true statement without offense,it's ambiguous by nature,though usually it's used like an insult. This type of argument is probably what marcellX meant The problem is that you're gay is not ambiguous,however since it seems that's how the post ^x6 above was worded,it does seem to be a condemnation.
comment #11717 terlwyth 3rd Dec 11
^ Then I apologize for my bad wording.
comment #11728 marcellX 4th Dec 11
Wow I'm late the to the party, but I'll add in my piece. According to Word Of God Daisuke was created with the intention to have no depth, he also didn't develop at all throughout the series, and frankly makes no sense as a character, and that's what they intended. The whole point to his character in the tv series is to actually not make sense (which is why he's just as bad as Miyako) and be the opposite of Ken. Ironically this is why his character is better in the hands of other writers (or at least where the producer can't touch) because when writing a narrative they have to make his character makes sense, and with no one meddling in how his character "should be" he usually ends up better for it. With that said I think I think that you're assessment on his character is incorrect. What happened in V-Tamer was just another writer taking in the same tv series Daisuke and doing something that the tv series, didn't ,developed his character. Daisuke is never shown to be a hard worker, he's shown to be a slacker, a reckless person who always just lucks out because the plot is always there to cushion him, and prove that he is always right. However, in V-Tamer the plot wasn't cushioning him, this writer didn't care about having Daisuke always in the right. So in this case the 02 team was faced with a powerful enemy whose abilities made their usual mode of attack according by Daisuke's lead (aka rushing head first into the situation without thinking) useless and dangerous, and his teammates not being dumbed down and realizing the lack of plot cushioning had to save him. However, Daisuke didn't view it as such, he was too busy being selfish, feeling too sorry for himself, blaming Takeru for "stealing" Hikari, and his limelight to see the situation for what it really was (aka same as how he is in the tv series). It wasn't until until Taichi had snapped him out of it and pointed out to him that the others had in fact sacrificed themselves to save him, and that it was his fault because he was the one that wanted to rush in head first, that Daisuke came to the realization on what was really happening, it was also Taichi who got Daisuke to realize that just rushing in to situation guns blazing was dangerous, something that he never realizes in the tv series, basically calling out the so-called courage he showed in the tv series for what it really was recklessness. What the writers did in V-Tamer wasn't showing a new aspect of his character, they played his character straight in an environment that wasn't catered to him, forcing him to grow up and own up to his mistakes, which is something that the tv series never did, making him a character.Ironically this created the only situation where the 02 crew in character legitimately needed his help. Also Daisuke was pretty much gungho about defeating Ken just to defeat him, it was the digimental of kindness and subsequently the digimental of Miracles that allowed him to "see Ken's true heart", basically the plot, he wasn't able to do that on his own accord. However, with the others Ken had to prove himself to them and they accepted without the plot creating some dues ex machina so that they suddenly understand and forgave him for his past transgressions (before he showed any bit of remorse for his actions mind you). Daisuke accepting Ken wasn't about Ken being a hard worker, they barely knew each other before and after his defeat. Daisuke learned about Ken when the others learned about him. The reason why he couldn't accept Wallace was because well Wallace was better than him and Daisuke was jealous. He only really accepted Wallace after he found out what Wallace going through, that he was a person to be pitied not envied, and also because he was forced into a situation where he had to rely on Wallace in a foreign country whose language he couldn't speak. Its always jealously which was always a part of Daisuke's character, he hates people that are better than him, regardless of how hard they work. The simple fact that they are better than him pisses him off. For example Takeru, we've seen Takeru from Adventure to 02 and so we the viewers know that he has never had it easy (at least compared to Daisuke), and Daisuke knows this (finds out what all of the original kids went through) but it never made him any less rude to or jealous of Takeru.
comment #11732 TheTropeEater 4th Dec 11 (edited by: qtjinla15)
So the writer's intentional wrote him to have no depth and intentionally did several bad writing traits as well? What the sense make?
comment #11739 qtjinla15 4th Dec 11 (edited by: qtjinla15)
^^ Not a one, but it was still done intentionally. Twas the producer's idea.
comment #11751 TheTropeEater 5th Dec 11 (edited by: TheTropeEater)
So They Just Didn'tCare sigh. Anyway, has anyone done a complete and good fixfix of Digimon 02?
comment #11758 qtjinla15 5th Dec 11
I didn't think I would say this, but I have to agree with The Trope Eater's analysis, rather than my own; I seem to emphasise hard work as motive, when it actually isn't there. Although I do believe Daisuke's competitiveness (which is so far unique to him) still has to do with his inferiority complex.
comment #11793 luislucas 6th Dec 11 (edited by: luislucas)
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