Reviews Comments: It could have been worse, but that's not saying much.

It could have been worse, but that's not saying much.
I'll admit that I do not like Silver Age camp, but I do believe Lighter And Softer approaches can turn out well. However, I feel TB&TB uses its campy style less to invoke comedy than it uses it as an excuse for being silly and unorigial. The show doesn't feel like an action series with comedic elements, it feels like an action series with a layer of silliness all over it (though admittedly, as I'm not a very frequent comic reader, some of its humour may be lost to me).

While seeing these obscure "B-list" heroes is fun, there is one thing that prevents them from being endearing for long: Batman. Batman has no reason to even be in this show. His backstory, rogues' gallery, his sidekicks and his Bruce Wayne persona almost never appear, and the character feels cheapened as a result. But that's not all, because Batman's presence also makes the other heroes seem weak. Because Batman HAS to have the spotlight, none of the other heroes are allowed to be even semi-competent. They must always be completely dependent on Batman and helpless without him. In the long run, Batman feels tacked on to stories that he shouldn't be in. Are the Green Lanterns in trouble with Despero? Send a Green Power Ring to Batman! Is planet Rann being attacked by Gordanians? Call Batman, the greatest strategist of planet Earth! Will apes and tigers evolve beyond human intelligence far in the future and are at war? Batman must travel in time to give the humans a hand! All in all, the show would be far better if Batman WASN'T in it. Even besides that, Batman is a very irritating protagonist. He constantly subjects the viewer to internal monologue that most of the time is just blatantly obvious exposition (I'm guessing this was meant to resemble the narration boxes that pointed everything out in the Silver Age, but that's no excuse for being annoying). The show constantly sets Batman up to be more awesomer than every other hero put together, and much dialogue is wasted so the other characters can comment on how awesome Batman is (possibly the worst exaple being in "Fate of the Equinox", where Batman acts very rude torwards Dr. Fate's masters and is commended for it).

This isn't a horrible show by any means, but neither is it a good one.


Someone on the internets shares my opinions!
comment #737 Mr. Lostman 4th Aug 09
Silver Age campiness is not necessarily a bad thing, if done right. While some episodes are better than others, four episodes in particular, "Deep Cover for Batman," "Game Over for Owlman," "The Color of Revenge," and "Legends of the Dark Mite" show why the formula essentially works. It's blind fanboyism that veers away from anything not Grim Dark Batman. It's actually refreshing to not see a Heroic Sociopath Batman who is probably just as twisted as the villains he fights.
comment #739 Ganondorfdude11 4th Aug 09
Actually, it's that blind fanboyism that allowed this nonsense to stay on the air.

'The Batman' on WB was actually pretty good and was a good mix of light and heavy. B&TB is just lame.
comment #740 Mr. Lostman 4th Aug 09
I find the other heroes aren't cheapened. It's more like "These guys are cool like Batman!". Often, like in the Green Lantern episode, the characters are separated at some point and each have to prove themselves. Sometimes, the themes of characters are compared and tied into each other, like the Man Bats in the Kamandi episode, or Bruce almost following his parents into the afterlife in the Deadman episode. And sometimes the character demonstrates a strength in something as great if not greater than Batman's, like in the Blue Beetle episode (Which was a MUCH better sendoff for (spoiler) than Identity Crisis ever was).

You have to go in with a certain attitude, though, and that's probably why your mileage may vary.
comment #744 5th Aug 09
Quite frankly, I thought that The Batman was essentially a soulless attempt to recreate the complete mastery of the medium displayed in Batman The Animated Series by way of the "X-treme" trend that was big in the early '00s. B:TB&TB is good specifically because it doesn't try to match the intensity of the cartoon that essentially defined the brand in the '90s. The new show is basically a series of C Mo As and designed as Fan Service to DC fans. That's just cornercase geek enough to meet my ultimate approval while still being 100% watchable for non-geeks.
comment #745 Dracomicron 5th Aug 09
You know what was wrong with The Batman? The 5th season guest stars. There was no character development after that, really, for Bruce. It wasn't as good as B:TAS, I guess, but the point of me bringing it up was it wasn't all GRIM AND DARK! I don't really see the "EXTREME!" bit you're talking about, either.

You know what is wrong the TB&TB? Guest stars all series long. That, and it's just outright immature. The point of it being fanservice (and therefore "geeky enough") is lame. The whole "silver age" thing is terrible and intentionally referencing it should be met with looks of disapproval and shame. Knowing how bad it was isn't an excuse to regurgitate it back on us.
comment #746 Mr. Lostman 5th Aug 09
So TB&B is immature while The Batman is not. Both are cartoons aimed at 7 year olds. Okay, I get it already. You only like the most MATURE cartoons about Batman for kids.

You could just say "I do not like this cartoon." without describing the way you would an unspeakable horror from beyond and calling out its fans as horrible shameful people.
comment #747 5th Aug 09
I think his point was, most appeal to older fans from TB&TB seems to be directed at "geeks", whereas The Batman was a somewhat more rounded series. That said, while I certainly don't like this series, I have nothing against people who do.
comment #748 Dr Dougsh 5th Aug 09
All the series were aimed at kids. TB&B really doesn't have any appeal to non-geeks and kids, like at all. It's just too immature. (A santa episode? A freaking lightsaber?) All the aesops are the more childish "Power of friendship!" crap thrown right in your face. There are no moral dilemmas you wouldn't see in an afterschool special.

The Batman, while generally lighthearted, did that Dracula movie and the more serious tone worked out great. TB&B couldn't pull off something similar without some looks of confusion. It's banal, formulaic (even for a kids show), and has zero development for Bruce (complete with zero appearances as himself outside a costume). [Again, the whole point of bringing this show up was that it wasn't all Dark And Edgy. Except for the movie. Which again worked.]

I don't have anything against fans. I do have it against people who assume not only is it just the BEST, it's the BEST because it references something terrible.
comment #755 Mr. Lostman 6th Aug 09
Er, I had a hard time taking the Dracula movie seriously when he just happened to have a sunlight generator sitting in the Batcave. Parts of the movie worked, but if we're going with undead crossovers, the Deadman episode of Brave & the Bold was more satisfactory (poor Speedy gets to be the Butt Monkey of the episode with all the times he's possessed).
comment #758 Dracomicron 7th Aug 09
I think the Brave and the Bold was meant to bring back a more classical edge. The way I see it, it looks like it's coming from the earlier comics. (Have you even seen the very first ones?) After all, there have been so many modern variations that I think the producer of this version felt that there had to be one to take it back to a classic form.
comment #760 GatoGirl12345 7th Aug 09
This is an awesome cartoon and the review sucks.
comment #763 Chaltab 7th Aug 09
This is an awesome review and your comment sucks.

@Dracomicron: They established the sunlight generator earlier, like, repeatedly. Granted, I don't remember why it's in the Batcave, but this is missing the point. I was talking about the tone of the film. Let's drop The Batman. This isn't working.

Compare "Super Friends" to "Justice League/Unlimited." Which is the better show? Justice League, right? Why? Super Friends is lame and juvenile (and not quite as well animated..). Wouldn't a semi-serious version of TB&TB work better (with a minor art-shift so they don't look like Secret Saturday rejects)? I don't mean as serious as JL, but something to get away from the Super Friends vibe.
comment #764 Mr. Lostman 7th Aug 09 (edited by: Mr. Lostman)
I always felt Batman was best suited to the role of gritty urban crime detective, but now you guys have got him up against Santas, and Easter bunnies? I'm sorry, but that's not my Batman! *FART*
comment #765 7th Aug 09
My main problem with the series isn't the campiness as much as it is the fact that it reduces Batman to a Black Hole Sue who runs around stealing spotlight from practically every other character in the DC Universe while reducing said characters to incompetent third wheels. In this show, not even Sherlock Holmes is allowed to do anything without Batman!
comment #766 Dr Dougsh 8th Aug 09
The guest star thing is pretty much just a gimmick.
comment #767 Mr. Lostman 8th Aug 09
Mr. Lostman: "They established the sunlight generator earlier, like, repeatedly."

Did they establish it in a previous episode? If that were true, then I'd be impressed. I admit that I hadn't watched enough of the show to know if they had set it up in the previous season or something, but it looked like they just tried to set up a hilariously bad Chekhov's Gun (Wayne Enterprises was working on THAT the week Dracula rolls into town?).

I'm done now.
comment #773 Draconis 10th Aug 09
Are you still on that? It was properly set up in the movie. If it had no reason to be in the Bat Cave, then I forget. "THAT week" Call it a contrived coincidence then. TB&B is full of them, each more egrerious than the last.

[It's like you can't read. I brought the movie up (the only weakness apparently being "coincidences!" according to you) because of the TONE of the film being more serious than the regular series and still working and that TB&B couldn't do the same. The Batman was also a more rounded show for general audiences to where you didn't have to read several poorly written comic books from the sixties to appreciate or understand.]

Let's talk about TB&B then, or what I refer to as the New Super Friends.
comment #775 Mr. Lostman 10th Aug 09
Superfriends rocked, thank you very much. Of course, I was like, six, when I watched it. Wonder Twin Powers Activate!

This is shaking out as a generational issue to me. You just gotta ignore me at this point, I guess; I first gained an appreciation for Batman with Batman The Animated Series. The Batman was just similar enough so that the differences were both glaring and jarring at the same time. The art seems wrong. The characters seem shallow. Nothing it does will ever be good enough for me. I'm not afraid to admit that I'm completely biased.

On the other hand, TB&TB shares so little with my favored version that I'm free to appreciate the fun mayhem and slick humor. I'm not a silver age comics fan, and I (as well as the small children the show was ultimately written for, seemingly) have no problem following the plots. The "egregious" contrived coincidences in TB&TB seem entirely forgivable in such a lighthearted format (something that the Dracula movie didn't have... it was trying to be serious).

To me, it's just a fun show that specifically does not tread on the legacy of previous animated series (unless you go back about thirty years).

Fair enough?
comment #780 Dracomicron 11th Aug 09
The writers seem to be having fun with the whole "Batman" concept, and that is getting across to the viewer. It is an interesting alternative to the doom 'n' gloom Dark Deco look and style. There is room for both approadhes, if they are well done. B&B is, and has not yet descended into the camp of the old Adam West TV series. I look forward to seeing those last four episodes when CN runs them—whenever that will be!

Contraptor, 15 Aug 09
comment #814 15th Aug 09
I like the show for what it is: a mostly-humorous adventure cartoon with lots of Shot Outs for comics fans. It's not B:TAS, but it's not supposed to be.

I *do* have a problem with the series, though: the quality of the writing varies too wildly from episode to episode. Some are TOO silly, others are shockingly dark. The show's producers need to pay more attention to the scripts before approving them.
comment #877 Sijo 23rd Aug 09
@ Dr Dougsh On the other hand, without Batman, none of them would be see at all.

Given that It's His show, and skewing both younger and Silver-Age, it stands to reason that the show is 'supposed to be all about Batman to some extent. But at the same time, I believe the series does well at showcasing the character of each Guest Star. Especially the Red Tornado episodes, and the Adam Strange one a.k.a.: How Aquaman Got His Groove Back.

Which is the difference between being the Big Star, and being a Black Hole Sue: All the Guest Stars get time to shine. Not just in a single moment, but throughout the episode(s).

comment #905 SAMAS 29th Aug 09 (edited by: SAMAS)
But that's just it: This show isn't really about Batman. Most episode premises have practically nothing to do with him. Take The Eye of Despero episode, for example. Guy Gardner, Sinestro, Despero and the Green Lanterns are more than interesting enough to carry the episode on their own, but then the show squeezes Batman into it for no reason whatsoever. Guy Gardner, G'Nort and Sinestro are the real protagonists, and Batman is the guest star. An extremely obnoxious guest star who has no reason for being there.
comment #916 Dr Dougsh 31st Aug 09
BOTH "The Batman" AND "BTBATB" are cool shows. If one doesn't like them, fine, but they are well-made and apparently successful among kids.
comment #945 7th Sep 09
True, they could have just called the show "The Brave and The Bold" and would have not included Batman, but then very few people would watch the show because they have no idea who some of the characters are, the popularity of the character Batman was used so they could give knowledge to lesser known heroes, and seriously, Batman isn't always turning the characters into incompetent fools, seriously, the review kind of irritates me, yes, Brave and the Bold does have problems, but honestly, some of the information in the review can be somewhat inaccurate. Sorry if I didn't look at the review that much, but honestly. Didn't Justice League work on a similar note? The had the A-Listers, but the B-Listers were also there, and people didn't previously know about them, they're trying to introduce new heroes through Batman.
comment #1155 Etheru 18th Oct 09 (edited by: Etheru)
Batman: the Brave and the Bold is an underlooked show because of the art visual design and the humour they show. The reviewer of this show completey ignores the more serious aspects. Such as Aquaman's depression, Bruce's parents getting murdered in a FREAKING christmas special episode, White Ghost getting executed (tho offscreen but mentioned), Batman's trainer getting killed and most of all: Plateleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! :(((((

Really people who don't think this show is serious or dark really need to watch "The invasion of the secret santas", "Fall of the blue beetle", the two-part episode titled "deep cover for batman!" and "game over for Owlman!". Ofcourse the show has a good taste of humour such as Paul D Ini's legends of the dark mite or the god damn musical episode. <3

I would say the only character as an Undergod is Blue Beetle, because hes less experienced and younger then for example this show's Dick Grayson (Robin still, hopefully he becomes the disco-suited Nightwing). Aquaman and Green Arrow are always equal ground to Batman. Heck Batman and Green Arrow constantly battle who catches more thugs for example.
comment #1169 20th Oct 09
^Thank you.
comment #1173 Etheru 21st Oct 09
Okay, the Music Meister episode was pure genius. They had a bat-shark repellant Shout Out.
comment #1188 Dracomicron 27th Oct 09
I can actually say my opinion of the show has changed since I started watching it. When I first watched it, I thought it was reasonably well done, but based on a hopeless premise. Since then, I have gained some respect for the overall idea behind the show, but I STILL don't think it's really good. In a way, being based on the Silver Age strikes me as little more than an excuse for not putting effort into the show (yeh, I know being clichéd is kind of the point of this show, but that doesn't excuse the extensive ripping off Darkwing Duck in "Deep Cover for Batman/Game Over for Owlman"), as well as a way of invoking Nostalgia Filter. Teen Titans (which I actually consider a Lighter And Softer approach done right) tends to be bashed more than this show for its comedic approach. Why is that? Because Teen Titans doesn't have the benefit of borrowing its style from old comics, that's why.
comment #1227 Dr Dougsh 4th Nov 09
Personally, I like the show. But that doesn't mean that this review isn't fair. I think it points out some of the shows flaws quite well. As for Batman being a Spotlight Stealing Squad I don't know. It is kind of his own show. Calling him a Mary Sue would probably be a bit more accurate (although it might be a bit harsher.) Bruce Wayne is a very flawed man, but he is nowhere to be seen in BBATB.

As for the spotlight gimmick: I love it. It gave Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes and Ted Kord) and The Atom (Ryan Choi) some screen time they would not have anywhere else. I mean, does Jaime Reyes even have a solo series anymore? Or did they uncancel it? If you REALLY want these B-heroes in the media spotlight, you are going to have to cough up some cash and buy their comics first.
comment #2671 LaCapitana 28th May 10
Guys, there is something much more important to consider here.

An animated Batmobile design actually looks cool for the first time since B:TAS.
comment #4728 8th Oct 10
I can accept the fact that people don't like this show for being a love letter to the silver age (because Batman always has to be dark and gritty!!!!!) or the fact that its actually you know clever. But to think The Batman was good or a better show? No.
comment #13707 NotSuperman 7th Apr 12
I feel bad for people who don't get this show, or Batman, apparently.
comment #26853 Batman39 8th Nov 14

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