"None of the characters matured palpably beyond their introductory arc."

I don't know what frame of mind you were in while watching this, but it can't have been too lucid if you missed Tenma's arc (goes full circle), Eva's arc (stops being a selfish codependent bitch), Nina's arc (forgives Johan; you must have missed her deciding to kill him?), Johan's arc (he faces his identity not as something interchangeable with his mother's or Anna's, or something to punish Bonaparta for, but at something purely his, which he was scared to confront because of his mother's perceived rejection in the final flashback scene).

"Spoonfeeding is bad, but simply tossing (rather derivative) morality plays at viewers ad nauseam does not a philosophical conundrum make."

And throwing buzzwords you barely understand does not a good review make.

Hi Eric,

I, for the most part, liked this series, but I can see where you're coming from. I, too, was very disappointed with what it all led up to (and that horrible, horrible ending). The final showdown in Ruhenheim would have been fine, but it suffered from being built-up too much and suggesting that Johan had something far more nefarious than killing the inhabitants of a small town. Horrifying yes, but not nearly what I was expecting what with everything that led up to it. I've often wondered if Friend's plan in Twentieth Century Boys was originally intended for Johan. That might not have fit as well with Monster's tone, but that would have done a better job meeting the scale of the buildup than what Urasawa actually ended up using.

Beyond the ending, I also felt they left a too much for the audience to fill in the blanks. Not knowing Johan's true motivation made him more frustrating than mysterious or horrifying. I think there's a very delicate balance between showing too much and showing too little and going too far on either end can hurt the story, and, in my opinion, Monster just didn't pull it off.

Ah well, good review, and I'm sorry that you wound up investing so much time into something you ultimately ended up hating.

T.W.W.

P.S.

Insofar,

I get that you like the series, but you're really just veering into White Knight territory. That honestly bugs me because I remember how, even though you disagreed with my own review, you were also very civil and professional about it. I just hate to see someone I respect resort to that kind of post.

Take care.

T.W.W.

Tenma is exactly the same in the final episode as when he first went on the run, ditto Nina, they both hold to the same credo of impractical mawkishness they'd spent the whole series on the teasing brink of escape from (Nina's tough girl act was even less convincing than Tenma's, at no point in the series could I honestly believe she was really going to kill or even legally inconvenience anyone.) Eva is still a selfish airhead, her only noticeable change being that her obsession with Tenma has been toned down to a less harmful level. Johan is totally unperturbed and opaque throughout the series, even killing those responsible for his (and Nina's) traumatic memories seems more like an idle pastime or tedious chore than a real obsession the entire time he's doing it, and the No Ending was sufficiently open where his dependency on Nina didn't seem to have changed one iota either.

I never said (some of) the characters didn't change over the course of the series to varying degrees, but ALL of them ended up “full circle” when the closing curtain dropped, completely nullifying any impact the story might have had. Bodycount aside, the entire thing boiled down to a Shaggy Dog Story.

Eric,

There is character growth if you look beyond Nina and Tenma. Dieter changes from a very broken child to a strong, confident boy. Lunge also demonstrates some real (if minor) character growth. And Grimmer experienced a revelation, if not character growth. For some reason, the minor characters seem to be the ones who change the most, which is about the opposite of what you'd normally expect.

I wonder if the two main characters coming full circle was part of the point, though. I understood Monster to be about the potential for even broken people to choose the right things. It's about the potential for conversion (in a moral rather than religious sense). Over and over again, Tenma gets people to change for the better. It's true, though, that by the end, neither Tenma nor Nina really changes from their original "good" state, except in the sense of being tougher and more resilient. (Nina, especially, seems bolder and more confident to me.) Maybe the essential point of their character arcs is not about the potential for growth, but about the resilience of good when opposed to "evil." If you have characters who already begin from a place of strength, what else can they do but return to it at the end? . . . unless you're writing tragedy, of course. But Monster is ultimately an incredibly optimistic series.

Dieter doesn't change at all beyond his intro, when he and Tenma set off from the site of 511. The same can be said of all the other characters that survive beyond one arc too, like Gillen, Suk, and Karl. I agree Grimmer and Lunge were probably supposed to have matured some by the finale, but the writing just wasn't good enough to communicate this believably, as Lunge's reconciliation with his family felt like him attempting to wear yet another of his masks, while Grimmer's last words sounded exactly the same as what he'd been saying throughout the series.

I guess you might be right about Monster essentially being an extended anvil-drop of how incorruptible Tenma's ethos is compared to Johan's (or perhaps his lack thereof,) even when his nose is repeatedly rubbed in the worst scum and tragedy the human race produces. Whether or not this is the case, I still think each arc is far too similar, and that the ending undermines all of this both by having Tenma fail to resolve the situation and having Johan refuse to concede a victory.

Eric,

It's always fun to watch people philosophize fiction.

I agree that the series's overall arc failed because of the Shaggy Dog factor you brought up.

However, I also think the side character's (Martin, Dr. Schumann, Detective Muller, the guy who first teaches Tenma how to use guns, etc.) individual plotlines worked; and the series had a lot of those, so that's probably why I still rate Monster as high as I do. So, to me, the series is less than the sum of its parts, but a lot of those parts are still good on their own.

T.W.W.

Theweirdwarrior, disagreement is different from believing that a review should not be given any consideration because the reviewer hasn't paid attention to the work to the point of missing its most obvious themes. I'm not going to argue over interpretations if I don't believe one is not qualified to make them in the first place.

Maybe he just completely missed the point? Some people might have some kind of strange mental disorder that causes them to do that (See the Ender's Game review).

Insofar,

I'm not willing to concede that Eric's review missed the point, but even if it did, does that honestly merit being a jerkass about it? Couldn't you have criticized the review without being so caustic? No you couldn't, because Monster is Serious Business to you; way more serious than a piece of fiction should be for a person.

In my earlier post, I had a feeling my words would fall on deaf ears, and what-do-you-know I turned out to be right.

Sometimes, doing the right thing requires being a jerkass.

This is one of those times.

What? Do you understand what 'requires' means?

Somehow I get the feeling that a comment which gave little to no contribution was not actually necessary.

Don't bother, Heartbreaker. That guy is a troll. I've seen them post on a whole bunch of forums this weekend. I don't know exactly what they're compensating for, but it's pathetically obvious they're compensating for something.

And here comes the part where everyone starts their troll accusations whenever they see someone who doesn't agree with them.

By the way, to answer your question: The word "requires" means "necessary". You should have learned what the word means in grade school, but I guess it's never too late to start getting an education now.

"In my earlier post, I had a feeling my words would fall on deaf ears, and what-do-you-know I turned out to be right."

Likewise. As I said, there's no point in me criticizing a review if I think no thought and effort to understand the work were put into one. Now you can continue personally insulting me and thinking you're being classy and high-minded about it because you're doing it on behalf of someone else.

Tenma wasn't *supposed* to change. If he had, and did not stick to his morals, the series wouldn't be as great as it is. This is one of the few series where the main character's static characterization is better than a dynamic one.

I loved the ending. I know a lot of people saw it as a letdown, not being flashy enough, and perhaps a bit anti-climactic. But it's still incredibly smart and moving.

it's sad to see intelligent and smart people (insofar,theweirdwarrior) fall down (in terms of respect like that) specially theweirdwarrior. I agree with you that insofar was rather confrontational but even after saying all that the anvil of hypocrisy fell hard when you went and did the same thing. Again I say, it's a shame to see such people slowly fall from grace (you know what I mean). But I digress, to the OP, you got to remember that Johan after being subjected to the series of things he went through (511, the book readings, the deal with her mother, etc. etc.) that his main aspect is nihilism, I heard somewhere in this site, that the Joker from Dark Knight doesn't want money or power, he wants the world to burn, while Johan just wants to light the world on fire. He doesn't enjoy killing, but he doesn't feel remorse either. He's killing and torturing people, but he doesn't know why, he just does it, he doesn't really have a goal as seem when he simply threw all political chances he had at the moment just to burn a library. That is the "monster" inside of him he keeps talking about. But I gotta agree with the anticlimactic ending. I see that it wouldn't had gone so well with the series, but we're accustomed to finales being the moment when the series goes all out, with saving the world/universe, evil incarnate, the strongest of the strong, all the powers combined, etc. etc. (obviously the series wasn't going to do any of those examples but you get the idea). On the subject of character development, well a lot has been said here already so I don't think there's much need to be redundant, although I will say this. Did characters develop? yes, did characters did a complete 180? no. In fact if characters Tenma would had been any different at the end he would had been a failed character Overall it seems you're complaining because the series didn't do what you wanted, instead of trying to understand what they tried to do. Which is why while I don't fully agree with the approach, I see where insofar is coming from.

I just wanted to say that the plots and conspiracies are only in place to show how Johan likes to play with people's minds. He doesn't care about the Neo-Nazis' ideology, he doesn't care about making money and gaining power, etc. He simply wants to cause destruction. He likes to make people think that he does so that he may manipulate them. In addition, IMO, Johan "killing off the conspiracy," is supposed to serve as a Deconstruction of Johan's motives and make the viewer wonder just what the heck Johan really wants. Now whether or not that makes a good plot is a matter of opinion.

I don't think Eric got what the story meant and if he wanted an easier to understand story, he should watch simpler plots. Perhaps it is becausehe watched the show instead of reading the manga, and even if the Tv Tropes page says the manga is very similar to the anime, I haven't watched it so it might be that.

You can't expect that all finales are "Save the world" or a big reveal that twist everything you've learnt before. This proved to be a mature series precisely with that type of ending.

He also refuses to believe in any kind of change in the characters, even the minor ones, because it contradicts his theory so I think any example I wirte here will be shruged off as garbage... not worth the effort then.

My problem isn't that I disliked the way the story turned out, but that absolutely nothing happened. Comparing the “grand finale” to the ending of any other arc, there is no difference. Tenma is still completely assured about his Lawful Stupid ways in spite of nearly allowing Johan to shoot an innocent kid out of sheer hesitancy (saved by a Deus Ex Machina of classically wimpy writing) right before his eyes, while Johan is still at large having apparently absorbed nothing from Tenma or Nina. Minor characters undergo changes and maturation neatly confined within the arcs that introduce them, but fail to change later in any meaningful way even many arcs down the road.

Every story doesn't need a flashy tour de force for every ending, but if you have continuity in a story with multiple installments, you must have them progress and build on each other, which it failed to do. TWW said that he enjoyed it on the merits of themes, individual arcs or episodes standing on their own strength, but while I can appreciate series on that basis (Mushishi, Kinos Journey, Haibane Renmei…) Monster simply placed too much focus on its overall plot (or lack thereof) for me to let it slide.

Regarding Johan's mysterious motives, I find it most likely that he was not meant to be nailed down precisely, that he was instead supposed to be a gestalt accumulation of formless malice, one whose personality is beyond the ken of the characters, audience, and even the author, so as to do whatever the story calls for without needing much excuse beyond “he so crazy.” Creepy, yes, but not exactly concrete.

In essence, Monster posed questions to the audience, then brushed them aside without any honest attempt at rendering answers, dangling them over the audience's head throughout. That's frustrating, and shallow.

Eric,

Then it's just not liking it because the story didn't do things how you wanted to be done instead of the series doing what they were trying to do badly. I was gonna try and device a counter argument what you said, like why does a character that already changed to the desired result did it need to continue changing (there's changing and there's having a personality disorder) but I made a full stop after Monster simply placed too much focus on its overall plot (or lack thereof) for me to let it slide. it doesn't have a plot but apparently it focus a lot on it, apparently you can make complains like that and not notice the failed logic in that. I find it most likely that he was not meant to be nailed down precisely yes, he was, it was said here and even in-universe that he was molded into a nihilist, basically just watch the For The Evulz trope.

Your answer Eric is so obtsuse and logic-less I desist of reasoning with you... I can't believe you even kicked Johan's character. He gives the whole manga the thriller athmosphere of a real monster (no pun intended), he is credible and because of that, the manga is very scary. Actually, today I've bought the first volumes of the deluxe edition of Monster to promote the mangaka and this great manga in Spain.

BTW, why do you need to sign all your posts with your name... we can see who wrote the comment just below, in fact,your nick is simply yor name plus DVH. Do you need the attention so much???

"Tenma is still completely assured about his Lawful Stupid ways in spite of nearly allowing Johan to shoot an innocent kid out of sheer hesitancy."

Uh, you do realize that it was unclear whether or not he would have actually shot him, right? He was just barely beaten by Wim's dad. Go ahead and complain about the cop out ending, but please get the facts straight.

Oh, and it is notable that Tenma shot two people in self-defense. Just saying.

I'm sorry for spamming comments here, but comments don't seem to be editable now. :/ Anyway, I also say that while I love Monster, people do have a right to their own opinions and I don't think insulting people's intelligence for not liking what you like is warranted. Please stop it.

I agree with Angewoman, please don't insult people's intelligence.

I disagree with Eric completely and I really love this series.

Yeah. Opinions. They exist!!! XD

This.... // Monster simply placed too much focus on its overall plot (or lack thereof) for me to let it slide.//

and this... // so as to do whatever the story calls for without needing much excuse beyond “he so crazy.” Creepy, yes, but not exactly concrete. //

and this... // In essence, Monster posed questions to the audience, then brushed them aside without any honest attempt at rendering answers, dangling them over the audience's head throughout. That's frustrating, and shallow. //

Thank you,oh so much. This was my problem with the series as well.

The series ending wasn't much of a disappointment, because it was pretty clear that neither Nina nor Tenma would shoot anyone ever. Nina came pretty close when she wanted to stop that warehouse fire, and Tenma when he shot Roberto ( i was actually surprised he did that and was majorly happy that Tenma maintained his sanity and composure after it) but after Roberto came back, i thought, like hell this guy is going to have any dimensions.

Johan.... i don't even know why the series bothered with his backstory. Rule #1 of scary is you DON'T EXPLAIN SCARY. If you do, you need to put in uncomfortable questions which really have no good answers, or a really huge moral mess. What WAS Johan's deal? Guilt at being accepted or the thought that he could be rejected? And seriously, is that grounds for turning into a long term psychopath who kills anyone without compunction?

And taking up his sister's memories as his own? That's messed up... but also very, very stupid. It was the dullest feeling that the author was implying that shared horror could turn something into a monster... while leaving the one who suffered it as a bit broken, but ok. All that drama, all the lead up with Nina collapsing left, right and center while explaining memories which were too damn obvious from the flashes we saw for nearly all the arcs after the Library fire, was too much buildup, leading to nothing. Her breakdowns led nowhere, that drama could have been dealt for her own personal development, but shoehorning reveals about the twins past as drama was a very bad idea. It made the series too frickin' long.

I like the side characters, i love Grimmer, Dieter is awesome as he is and the very first time he stood up, Lunge is nicely flawed. They all work very, very well as side characters. Eva was nicely broken down and allowed to build back up... i thought she was dead when she walked in on her father, but they surprisingly decided to work on her for some reason and the result is pretty good.

Overall the story, is actually a lot like a story from real life... with the people involved in the center being completely dull compared to the story they're supposed to be carrying (Nina and Tenma) rather than showcasing Johann from the beginning the mystery might have worked better if no one had any idea who was pulling the strings. Johann is good for what he is, he's an excellent character but i can see his use being DULLED by the protagonists. They might as well have not existed for all the challenge they gave him.