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Reviews Comments: How to go from awesome to Darkness Induced Audience Apathy RWBY whole series review by Some New Guy

Wow...I mean, WOW.

It pains me to have to write this review, but the fact is, Miles, kerry and Monty (rest his soul) REALLY dropped the ball.

Seasons 1 and 2 were amazing, with awesome characters, amazing fight scenes, and the perfect balance between drama and humor. Then...Then volume 3 happened.

Pointless, graphic violence. Overpowered villains who never lose. Overly pessimistic, oppressively dark tone. Teenage girls being mentally and physically broken. One of the most horrendous and insulting examples of Stuffed into the Fridge I have ever seen.

Volume 4 just continues the downward spiral. Literally, its been nothing but misery, darkness, misery, death and misery. What\'s the fucking point anymore? I came to this show to watch an amazing, badass dramedy, not anime!Game of Thrones.

Add in a staff that absolutely refuses to respond to or even acknowledge any form of criticism and a cult-like fandom that attempts to mercilessly silence anyone who doesn\'t sing the show\'s praises, and you have one of my biggest disappointments ever.

What happened? What the fuck happened?

Comments

  • MiinU
  • 6th Dec 16
What happened? What the fuck happened?

Cerberus Syndrome.

That said, there's two things I'd like to point out: first, Cerberus Syndrome isn't inherently a bad thing. Some shows even benefit from it, when done wellnote . Second, the villains have to be competent to portray them as a legitimate threat.

The closest you'll get to an OP villain is Cinder, and she's been humbled. Her dragon's dead, her face is scarred, and she can barely speak above a whisper as a result. Not to mention, she's scorned by her superiors (minus Salem).

As far the others: Torchwick's dead and Neo's MIA (possibly also dead). So that's three major villains down, leaving only Salem and the two other newcomers.

Nor has the show gone all 'doom 'n gloom' like you're making it out to be. It's the exact opposite. Try listening to the lyrics of the new OP. It's all about overcoming adversity.

Do we just go home?
Can we follow through?
When all hope is gone, there's one thing we can do:
Let's just live!
The past can't hold us down, we must break free.
Inside, we're torn apart', but time will mend our hearts.
Move forward, not there yet, so let's just live!

Get it?
  • Knightofbalance
  • 6th Dec 16
Dude.

Okay first off: Cerberus Syndrome is NOT a bad thing all the time. In fact, Monty\'s favorite anime: Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagan under went Ceberus Syndrome. It started off as a hammy, over the top Super Robot show that was fun but relatively unremarkable, it\'s themes of moving forward being said but met unchallenged thus falling on deaf ears with only hints of darkness. It was only when the mentor character died did the show become as grand as it is now, having pushed itself and tested it\'s themes so they can be more relate as well as more inspiring.

Just like RWBY. RWBY is now testing it\'s themes and it\'s characters, putting them through harsh situations and harsh times so they can grow, adapt and evolve. While Volume 3\'s ending was a Downer ending, Volume 4\'s opening showed us that while they may be in harsh situations, there\'s still hope and there\'s still a chance. They will overcome those odds and prevail. Will they do so without suffering? No, that\'s not how life works and RWBY has shown that it wants to show things realistically.

And while there may seem to be more darkness now, that was always there. Blake\'s backstory and the White Fang, Weiss\' childhood, Yang and Ruby losing Summer and nearly dying themselves. Not to mention the constant reminders that humanity is only barely hanging on and often die to the Grimm appeared as early as Volume 1. It was always this dark (for reference, see the Fridge Horror and Nightmare Fuel taps), RWBY\'s just being more forecoming with it. With it now accepting the darkness, the show can use it to show people how to overcome it and triumph realistically. Like with Yang putting the artificial arm back on or Ruby traveling to Mistrial despite her sadness.

Also, on your \"cult-like\" fandom remark, look at the reviews and the comments before you. You\'ll see that the fandom is more accepting than you make it out to be.

All in all, a very poorly done review.
  • Epicazeroth
  • 6th Dec 16
Oh dear. Where to start? I guess I\'ll just go in order:

\"Pointless, graphic violence. Overpowered villains who never lose. Overly pessimistic, oppressively dark tone. Teenage girls being mentally and physically broken. One of the most horrendous and insulting examples of Stuffed into the Fridge I have ever seen.\" 1) The violence is neither pointless nor graphic. There is barely any blood shown, and only one on-screen injury of any kind (even that isn\'t shown graphically, but rather stylistically). It also all serves to move the plot, character arcs, and world forward. 2) The villains, while very competent, are not \"overpowered\". They actually lose quite often; the ones from before this Volume are all out of commission. Even the Fall of Beacon seems to be more of a setback or a Darkest Hour for the heroes than a total loss. 3) The dark tone lasts for about 2.5 episodes. This does not count as \"Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy\". 4) None of Team RWBY is either mentally or physically broken. Yang suffered through some depression, but that\'s about it. 5) Not only is is arguable whether this is even a case of Stuffed into the Fridge – she was not just killed to provide angst for others, but rather had a purpose besides that – it\'s really not even that extreme. I could easily find more \"insulting\" examples (the original, for one) and as far as violence, it\'s pretty far down there.

The whole of Team RWBY\'s arcs in Volume 4 (so far) have been them coming back from what they suffered. Comparing it to Game of Thrones is not only a massive stretch, but a bad comparison in any case (in terms of themes and basically everything else they\'re vastly different). A show doesn\'t have to constantly be cheery and upbeat for there to a \"fucking point\" to watching it.

Regarding the staff and fandom, I don\'t really know what you\'re talking about. The staff I don\'t know much about, but I haven\'t heard of them insulting or brushing off any fans. It\'s also not actually their responsibility to listen to any individual person\'s feedback (or really any feedback at all), especially since so far the reaction to this Volume has been generally positive. While I\'m sure there are unpleasant parts of the fanbase, they\'re not the norm; everywhere I\'ve seen has been pretty open – including here, where all the responses to negative reviews are constructive criticism.

And as for \"What the fuck happened?\" The show matured and grew up. You don\'t have to like it, and you are of course entitled to your own opinion, but just because you don\'t like dark themes doesn\'t mean the whole show is terrible and falling apart.
  • Knightofbalance
  • 24th Dec 16
  • MFM
  • 25th Dec 16
Holy overly long URL, Batman.
  • Valiona
  • 25th Dec 16
MFM,

That URL also doesn\'t work (at least not for me), so I can\'t tell what Knightofbalance is trying to show us.
  • Warclam
  • 25th Dec 16
It's worse than that, actually, in that it's better than that. There are still glimmers of promise, peeking out from the sludge. "Menagerie" gave us some information about the White Fang, about Blake, and allowed us to wonder, and imagine, exactly what the deal is with Adam. He's not the actual leader of the White Fang? So, he used his influence with the daughter of the former leader to gain power, perhaps?

And then, this piece of shit Final Fantasy villain shows up at the end to mug for the camera. And it's a reminder of everything that went wrong.
  • Knightofbalance
  • 30th Dec 16
Some how Tv Tropes screwed up my link. Here's the good one: (I hope) https://twitter.com/MurderOfBirds_/status/812626503422922752?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&iid=37db92ea2b0643c491841e4ae6a48a54&uid=3105187887&nid=244+281088000

And 1.) RWBY was influenced by Final fantasy if the fact that yang fights like a more aggressive Tifa, The Death Battle, Dead Fantasy and the fact that Monty himself has said it wasn't obvious. And 2.) If Tyrian being cliche is a problem for you then why did cliche Villain Cinder, Cliche villain Adam, and the cliche heroes not drive you off before?
  • MFM
  • 30th Dec 16

  • Warclam
  • 31st Dec 16
Knightofbalance:

1) I didn't know that, actually. Let me be more specific, then. I tend to use "Final Fantasy villain" as a shorthand for a villain that gets what they want because they just mysteriously have every ability and everything they need, and nobody can stop them because they succeed with flimsy plans while everyone stares in a cut scene. When I say it, I think specifically of the clown in 6, and the clowns in 9 (seriously, what is it with clowns?). Really it applies to Cinder, but I guess I think of her whole circle of buddies in the same way due to how much she embodies it.

2) Cinder: she did drive me off. Her successful insertion of the Queen worm into the CCTS while crashing around fighting everyone is literally unbelievable (A violent intruder was messing with the computers! Restore from backup!), and she just got worse from there. I don't watch the series anymore, I just read summaries for the sake of proper context for RWBY fanfiction.

Adam: well, first, I never got that far. But I also appreciate that he's genuinely menacing, instead of just a smug asshole like every single one of Salem's flunkies.

Heroes: it took me a while to warm to the series. The first season was pretty rough. I don't think I would have gotten to season 2, actually, if it weren't for Penny (We know how that went, eh?). But the writing improved, and character development happened, and things were looking up for a while. And then it all collapsed into grimdark.

And while we're talking about what drove me off, the proliferation of double super powers was dumb. The maidens were just acceptable, though I think the powers should replace the recipient's semblance rather than add to it. But then Ruby's got an ultra-special-secret-superpower too! Move over Pyrrha, skill doesn't matter. It's all about how many superpowers you have. Cinder's got two, so only Ruby's Shoop-da-Whoop power can drive her off.
  • Knightofbalance
  • 31st Dec 16
If you don\'t watch the show then how can you judge Tyrian? And sure, gets everything she wanted. That\'s why she\'s humiliated, scarred, shamed, barely capable of speaking and under Salem\'s thumb. She got everything and it totally didn\'t come tumbling down.

Yes and people where totally justified in leaving Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann after Kamina died. It\'s not like that series came into it\'s own and beat out Neon Genesis Evangelion of all things.

Also, the superpower from Ruby only works on Grimm or Madiens which, shocker, 3/4 of Salem\'s associates can kill her. In fact, Tyrian almost did. And they\'ve dealt with those powers before so they can counter them.

And sure, Pyrrha sucked. That;s why she almost killed Cinder a super powered nigh-Huntress while Ruby and her three friends and Huntsman Uncle combined barely drove a normal guy away. Sure, skill is so useless. Ruby\'s powers would have been so effective against that guy whose explicitly CANNOT be harmed by them.

Your complaints, aside from the CCTV one, have no ground to stand upon.
  • Warclam
  • 31st Dec 16
Knightofbalance: Gracious, we've got a full discussion going here. Let's do this one paragraph at a time.

1) I think it's quite possible to judge a character based on episode transcripts. I haven't really paid much attention to Tyrian specifically though. I was reacting to the company he keeps, because I resent Cinder and Salem. He remains a reminder of them, which was my main complaint. I revoke my calling him a piece of shit Final Fantasy villain though, that was uncalled-for.

Regarding Cinder: yes, my complaint of implausibly getting everything she wants has a huge "until, abruptly, she doesn't", obviously. For me, though, it was too little, too late. The CCTS infiltration that, impossibly, carried all the way through to the tournament, allowing her smug henchwoman to, implausibly, manipulate the entire outcome, and then she pops up out of nowhere to kill Amber… she was an irredeemable mess of a character, and I would only have been satisfied by having her killed or otherwise removed permanently from proceedings.

2) I don't know what you mean with this one, I'm afraid.

3) I did not know that. Thank you. I wondered why a legendary anti-Grimm superpower worked on Cinder. That's better then. I still resent that it took a a brick joke from the first episode to bring down Cinder's reign of getting away with whatever she wants. I also really dislike the addition of extra bonus superpowers at all in place of gaining skill in using the ones they already have, but that's a personal preference.

4) Well, yes, Pyrrha is extremely skilled. That's exactly my point. What did she accomplish? Nothing whatever, for all her skill. She just died. Horribly. Then Ruby, who's a skilled fighter but not on Pyrrha's level, walked in and fired her laser and away went Cinder. Skill is dead, long live extra bonus superpowers.
  • Knightofbalance
  • 31st Dec 16
Not really with Cinder. All she had to do was infect the CCTV, which was the hardest thing to do. She then fixed the fights, which since nobody has ever done that before it wouldn\'t be thought of. Then she needed to frame someone, with Yang it\'s easy due to her destructive behavior and her temper, and lower morale enough to attract Grimm, which with atlas hanging over their heads is easy and combine this with mercury and emerald\'s skills it\'s even easier. Then she needed the Atlas military disabled which is easy as they are pretty arrogant and reckless seeing as Ironwood brought an army into a kingdom his fucking warred with. Then she just let humans do what humans do best: fuck each other up. The amber thing is...unexplained but RWBY is far from being the first anime to do stuff like that. Hell, I\'ve seen well-written anime pull that.

There I was under the assumption you were hinting that the death of a character ruined a show. I simply brought up an anime that did exactly that and thrived because of it.

And Pyrrha didn\'t die for nothing. She awoke Ruby\'s power and showed that even in the face of overwhelming strength, you can still do damage. She nearly killed Cinder several times like when she pinned Cinder and nearly crushed her with the gears. And then there\'s how Cinder got the Maiden powers, where she faced teh far more powerful Amber but won by using her wits and skill, forced away only when someone just s skilled as her (Qrow) shows up. And then there\'s when you remove the superpowers, like in Tyrian\'s case were he wiped the floor with Team RNJR (4 Vs. 1) but struggled against Qrow (1 Vs. 1 [No, Ruby doesn\'t really count. She fired a couple of shots that Tyrian blocked with ease and only cut off Tyrian\'s stinger when Qrow distracted him]) Skill still plays a factor in the fights since Ruby can\'t use her powers fully yet, they don\'t work on normal people so she needs to step up her game or else lose even more (Like she might do soon.)

And you\'d have to take that up with Monty\'s ghost, he\'s the one who added in the Maidens because they were cool. Between Penny\'s fight in V1 and raven\'s appearence in V2, someone needed to tell that man no.
  • MiinU
  • 2nd Jan 17
@KnightOfBalance: Pyrrha never came close to killing Cinder. At most, she managed to catch her off-guard once or twice, but that was about it. There was never a point where Cinder seemed worried, or that her life was ever in danger.

Those two brief moments aside, she casually brushed off just about everything Pyrrha threw at her. And always with the same smug expression. If you watch reaction videos to the fight between them, it was clear to everyone that Pyrrha was hopelessly outmatched.

So Warclam does have a point there. All of Pyrrha's skill amounted to bupkis, whereas the rookie (Ruby) seemingly got a new power out of nowhere, at the last second and insta-pwnd Cinder and her dragon at the same time.

Also, Cinder being able to manipulate everyone as easily as she did - including people much older and experienced than herself (such as, Ozpin and Ironwood) was hard to buy into. I could've bought it, had it been Salem doing it, but Cinder's not much older than Ruby.

Imagine a story where a highschool junior infiltrates the Pentagon, then flawlessly manipulates all of D.C. - including the President and the CIA.

I understand why it had to be allowed to happen and why it worked as well as it did (from a narrative standpoint), but I was still thinking "bullshit" as it was happening.
  • Knightofbalance
  • 3rd Jan 17
Hoplessly Outmatched...then how did Pyrrha catch her off guard? Vigilance is a part of someone\'s skill set, just look at the difference in vigilance between Ruby and Qrow or better yet Cinder and Amber. The fact that Pyrrha caught Cinder off guard even once is a feat in and of itself. The fact that she caught her off guard and nearly killed her is an even greater feat.

And the worried thing doesn\'t matter as I have seen a character yell out they are the best and they cannot die as they crumble away into dust. AN di saw Cinder struggling for her life when Pyrrha got ahold of her. And if she was so in control, he pride wouldn\'t have let her use the Grimm Dragon to help to emphasize how strong she is. Yet she did use it. Meaning that she needed to use it.

And you try to paint the Silver Eyes as over powered when they only work on Grimm and Maidens. Salem knows this has has three people in her inner council who cannot be either, so that\'s useless. Fat lot of luck Ruby\'s power is gonna do her when Tyrian shows back up and tries gutting her like a fish.
  • MiinU
  • 3rd Jan 17
@KnightOfBalance: Catching Cinder off-guard doesn't change the fact that it was a lopsided fight, nor does it mean Pyrrha was ever a threat. Even after being hit by a giant cog and buried beneath the rest, Cinder burst out of the ruble mere seconds later, completely unscathed.

At one point, she casually swat Pyrrha's shield away with a backhand and, near the end of the fight, she shot an arrow straight through it. Pyrrha landed only one attack the entire fight and Cinder brushed it off like it was nothing. She never came close to killing Cinder.

As for the silver eyes, you're missing Warclam's point: for all Pyrrha's skill, she couldn't touch Cinder. Ruby, who's a rookie by comparison, showed up, got a new power out of nowhere and WHAM! Fight over.

It doesn't matter that it has limitations, because it doesn't change the fact that Ruby's newfound power did what Pyrrha's skill could not: it defeated Cinder. That's who we're talking about.
  • Knightofbalance
  • 3rd Jan 17
Okay...

Sp does the fact that Yang made it out of the mecha fight after taking so much damage without a scratch make it a curb stomp? A Ura just makes it look like a curbstomp because you don't take actual damage until there is none left.

But I'm doing so showing that the "skill means nothing anymore" argument isn't true as Tyrian's mere existence disproves that. Saying that limitations don't matter is like saying Yang is totally OP despite the fact that she can only take so much damage before her Semblance goes off and said Semblance doesn't work without Aura or if she's unconscious.Or that the 3rd Super Saiyan form is the best because it brings out the most power, ignoring the fact it hampers speed and agility. So if you're saying limitations don't matter, they do.

If you're trying to defend the statement "Skill doesn't mean anything in RWBY" anymore, go watch V4 Episode 6 and 7 then. Skill does matter.

If you're saying that "Silver Eyes were a Dues Ex Machina" then I agree but it's not Miles or Kerry's fault, It's Monty's and they have been able to show weaknesses in the power, meaning it's not a story breaker.

If you're saying "Pyrrha had no chance" look on the Awesome page as it shows that while Pyrrha was overpowered, she fought smarter, not harder. You can have all the power in teh world but if you're a dumbass or an arrogant bitch, you will not be invincible.

If you're arguing that "Pyrrhaq died for nothing" here's a quote from teh Awesome tab:

"Ruby had never even heard of the Silver-Eyed Warrior legend, much less the fact that both she and her mother had the power itself; she only unlocked this power after seeing a close friend get shot and then turned to ash right in front of her. If Pyrrha hadn't gone back to fight Cinder and Cinder hadn't gone so far as to kill Pyrrha in such a brutal fashion, then it's likely Ruby's power would've remained dormant. So it's completely Cinder's fault that Ruby awakened a power that rivals her own and threw a wrench in the whole plan. Pyrrha's death wasn't for nothing. "
  • MiinU
  • 3rd Jan 17
@KnightOfBalance: Here's all I'm saying:

1. Pyrrha was not a threat to Cinder, she was completely outmatched. 2. Ruby's newly awakened silver eyes accomplished what Pyrrha's skill could not (defeating Cinder).

I never said skill no longer accounts for anything in RWBY, nor am I saying the silver eyes are OP. I'm only referring to the Pyrrha vs. Cinder battle and it's resolution. No more, no less.
  • Knightofbalance
  • 3rd Jan 17
1, I disagree withbut 2. I do sadly.

And sorry about that. It\'s hard to tell what is being said, what is implied and what is just you being a paranoid asshole.

I\'ll take my leave.
  • Warclam
  • 4th Jan 17
Maybe I'm making a severe tactical error by poking back in, but…

Miin U has basically said, in a much clearer way, what I was trying to say. There are just a couple more points I want to mention.

I would, in fact, say that Yang's fight with the mech was a curbstomp because she was never in any danger, yes. I don't think Yang's semblance is inherently OP, but it was being written that way for a while. Something that I commend the later seasons for doing is showing Yang's weaknesses, and highlighting how she over-relies on her powerful semblance so she's just about helpless when someone can work around it. I'm sure she'll be fixing that deficiency as soon as she can.

Regarding Pyrrha's death unlocking Ruby's extra bonus superpower: yes, that is true. However, I think the fact that it's true is an example of bad writing. Ruby has had tragedy in her life. Her mother never came back from war, and she still hasn't quite gotten over it. Now, Ruby wasn't RIGHT THERE watching Summer die, so it's a different sort of stress. But she was right there, helplessly too late, when Penny was killed. If the stress of watching a friend die was going to trigger a laser-eyes episode, why didn't the gryphon that scattered the pieces of Penny's corpse get lasered?
  • Knightofbalance
  • 5th Jan 17
No no, you\'re well within your right to talk again. As for the Pyrrha death thing can be justified by acculimated stress. The death of a friend is tramuatic but can be amplified even further by the death of another friend, the death of a long time enemy, the stress of fighting so many Grimm, the maiming of her sister and the betrayal of Cinder: All of these expontially wear down on Ruby. It\'s kind of like what happened with Taiyang: Summer\'s death alone wouldn\'t have broken the man but Summer\'s death was amplified by Raven\'s disappearance and the stress of being a widower with two grieving kids. Ruby\'s not someone who breaks easily but everyone has a limit.
  • SomeNewGuy
  • 8th Feb 17
@knightofbalance

So one of the things you\'re saying is that Pyrrha died to awaken Ruby\'s Silver Eyes. Ergo, she died in order to give another character motivation/a power boost/etc

Gee, I think there\'s a word for that. Whatever could it possibly be?
  • leoryff
  • 23rd Feb 17
Pyrrha\'s death was not a case of Stuffed into the Fridge. All her actions in the finale were well within character. Hell, I could write a small character study about Pyrrha explaining why her death, while still technically avoidable, was not about any form of shock value, nor did it cheapen her character at all. I COULD post a character study, but this is a comment chain on a review, and not really the proper place for it.

...Where would one go about posting a fan made character study anyway?
  • Knightofbalance
  • 24th Feb 17
I\'d go to reddit. Tumblr sucks.
  • CharlesIX
  • 25th Feb 17
I\'d go to reddit. Tumblr sucks.

Eh they both have there strengths and weaknesses.

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