Reviews Comments: A firm disbeliever
A firm disbeliever
To a lot of fans this show pretty much is a religion or they watch it religiously. Just as religions can have zealous and outspoken fans low and behold so does this series. The show has nothing in modesty. It varies so much that it can really throw you off. But ultimately is the pay off worth frustrations? Should something so frustrating be considered that good? Onto characters, the main character Shinji; is an inconsiderate, self-centered, low on self esteem, pampered, weak willed, stupid, shallow jerk nearly all the time. It seems heaps of characters are nice to this dude and he takes no notice. That makes no sense. Loners exist because they willingly remove themselves from society or they are shunned. Shinji is neither. Everyone has very repetitive problems of mother and father issues aside from Gendo and Rei. But Gendo isn't much of a villain at all as he just sits there behind a desk like a pencil pusher with his hand folded and his glasses on full eyebeams whilst some professor gives him the daily report. Rei repeats her monotonous ponderings on existentialism which rather than feeling deep becomes mute as she never even tries to properly answer it. The plot involves shipping through the Christianity, Judaism and kabala crafting some half asked plot and not giving a damn. Anno is sure respectful to a religion with over a billion followers also using Abrahamic themes, so nearly half of the globe. An old cabal of power exists who sit around ominously speaking of their distrust of Gendo every time only for him to easily hoodwink them. Exactly what was stopping them from just putting him in a smaller role or replacing him? The animation is bland and kept lengthy for all but the fight scenes which is understandable. But the incessant sound bites of insects really grate on the nerves and silence would have been preferred. Virtually everyone is worse than they started and none more so than Asuka. This show gives no answers to any of the over exaggerated problems it proposes. It is a frugal waste of time which cannot even be edited or skipped in order to fully understand it. Where Zen philosophy encourages self thought this show can't even provide foundations for an answer. It lazily expect you work it all because it can't be asked. It seeks $$$ not to educate; failing even to entertain.
Your review has some very good points but lacks focus, please rewrite.
comment #3127 joeyjojo 1st Jul 10
^ Sorry. Whilst I'm happy that the first comment wasn't an utter blood cry, I could use a little more than just rewrite as advice. No offense.
comment #3133 shinfernape 1st Jul 10
THANK YOU. This show destroyed Anime, and is the main reason why I hate the medium.
comment #3499 TweedlyDee 22nd Jul 10
"Anno is sure respectful to a religion with over a billion followers also using abrahamic themes." Stop, seriously, stop where you're going with that, if a religion can't stand having it's imagery used in something, then it needs to get over it self, really, really fast. You don't hear pantheists bitching about Dn D. ^ Wait, how? How can a show cause you to hate an entire medium. HOW? One More Day doesn't make Hellboy a worse read? NGE isn't connected to Cowboy Bebop or Baccano, WWII didn't turn every German into a Nazi. Though I agree, this show replaced plot, likable characters, resolution with overly dense, needlessly obtuse, ultimately pointless symbolism and turned out to be just a platform for it's creators various psychological problems.
comment #3503 Phrederic 22nd Jul 10
^ Yeah sure i mean we have loads of these religious consipiracy and end of the world kinda films. Sure Dan Brown has an alternate interpretation but i wouldn't say he was reinventing the religion or gratuituosly using crucifiction. The cross is a powerful symbol and even the media manages to respect that. They simply thought christianity looked alien and used it however they felt. Dante in dante's inferno uses the cross to purify souls and fight evil. But in evangelion they just use cross beams to blow sh*t up. That has both nothing to do with the cross and isn't respectful.
comment #3514 shinfernape 23rd Jul 10 (edited by: shinfernape)
Actually, I found the last two episodes of the original series entertaining beyond measure, making me laugh hysterically for about thirty minutes.
comment #3587 Squall 28th Jul 10
@Phrederic: Because it's a medium stagnated in shallow symbolism and angst. Not to mention shit-tastic animation quality.
comment #3713 TweedlyDee 3rd Aug 10 (edited by: TweedlyDee)
Shinfernape's last comment drew on an actual trope: Creepy Cool Crosses COULD be considered offensive by Christians, but most really don't care, given how much other countries misinterpret Japanese mythology and symbolism, and how (relatively) unknown anime is to most 'fundies'. (Also, demons generally explode when hit with 'Holy' power in Dante'sInferno. Just pointing that out.) For the...variable use of the symbolism involved, we could just chalk that down to Rule Of Cool, or translation problems. On a lighter nore, I'm glad to see that this review hasn't been swamped with Fan Dumb. Even if I am offended by your sporadic use of capital letters and grammar.
comment #3773 18.104.22.168 6th Aug 10
""But the incessant soundbites of insects really grate on the nerves and silence would have been preferred."" This is very much a cultural thing, it's a mood setting, I grew up in a region with those kinds of sounds and having lived in such a place it's not grating it reminds you of the large opens space cool wind and the warm summer days when those insects are in full flush and trying to mate. I'm sure for anyone who hasn't lived in a place like that it is grating to hear end on end, but it was a setting device and it didn't come across for you. But saying that silence would have been better, is like having scenes on a roadside without the car noises because they are grating and silence would be nicer.
comment #4616 Wuffy 29th Sep 10
I can take the ending, it was getting hit over the head with the ‘THESE PEOPLE ARE SCREWED UP!’ anvil I found annoying.
comment #5432 Strawberrycrepes 13th Dec 10
About the cross: I somehow doubt the people who made the show were thinking that people who actually cared enough about Christianity would watch it. You know, it being Japan, one of those countries that isn't America or a developing country. When was the last time you saw a film that portrayed a foreign culture accurately? It's the same reason there was controversy over RE 5. Americans apparently think that every foreign game developer should study American history and be familiar with their cultural screw-ups before making a game, despite knowing nothing about foreigners themselves. /rant
comment #5434 22.214.171.124 13th Dec 10
First of all, religion deserves no more respect than your favorite sports team. Secondly, "Loners exist because they willingly remove themselves from society or they are shunned." Wrong. Tons of people are loners because they're convinced that everyone shuns them, and instead of feeling happy or proud when praised, they feel as if they're being patronized. If you were forced into slavery, would you feel proud when you meet your master's unreasonable expectations? Because that's what it would be like in Shinji's shoes.
comment #5664 126.96.36.199 6th Jan 11
"Shinji is pampered" Stopped reading right there.
comment #5717 GodlessCommunist 9th Jan 11
^^ And that's nice but in a world where you can risk offending people you gotta have something known as respect. If you think religion doesn't deserve respect then please by all means go tell that to a Muslim. Your second point sounds like they are willingly removing themselves from society anways. Nobody is forcing them to be a loner and it is their choice. Shinji's position and a slave is a rediculous comaprison. Shinji get to save the world and the slave can't even save themselves. But really Shinji get's some comfy perks like that lady officer helping him out and what not. A slave is at the bottom of the starta and Shiji isn't through his poistion as a pilot. But also Shinji can quit if he wants to, infact many times he's tried to throw it in whereas slaves have no such luxury. ^Yeah Shinji is pampered as in he is in a post-apocalptic world where resources and land are scarece and he has all him material desires met and people around him who are nice and willing to do things for him. But perhaps this is relativsim as people in the 3rd world will say what the hell has he got to complain about. What does Shinji know about REAL hardship? Being scared at night for fear of what others will do to you etc.
comment #6150 shinfernape 28th Jan 11
^Yes, you're perfectly right. The amount of respect someone deserves is directly proportional to how much they're willing to kill you over it. And seriously the implications of your statement was seriously racist (Ignore the fact that Muslim isn't a race) against Muslims. Way to follow your own standards, you fucking hypocrite.
comment #6155 188.8.131.52 28th Jan 11
Niec spelign in yur reveiw
comment #6159 iheartmountains 29th Jan 11 (edited by: iheartmountains)
^^ So it's racist to ask whether you'd tell Muslim's you don't think their religion deserves more respect than a sports team? Well I find your comment stupid because obviously I and many people wouldn't be as so stupid as to say that to Muslims, Christians and many religions for that matter because it is the values they believe in, not something they merely like and take an interest to. A religion comes close to a way of life and saying that it deserves no more respect than a sports team is so freaking stupid, as sports cannot come close to telling you how to live your life compared to religion. Or the fact that religion is an integral part of people's history. So perhaps you should comprehend the gravity of what you say before you splurge it out.
comment #6247 shinfernape 4th Feb 11
Why the hell did you use Muslims as an example when we were already talking about Christians? Is there some kind of difference between Muslims and Christians? There's absolutely no reason why one should respect something just because other people think it's important. Unless of course, one actually care about random peoples' worthless feelings. History is worthless other than for taking pride and credit for things you didn't do and for learning from past experiences that others faced for you. I'm perfectly aware of what I'm saying. And I really don't give a damn how butthurt others are over it, because frankly, the benefit of preventing a few (billion) of their hurt feelings isn't worth the cost.
comment #6249 184.108.40.206 4th Feb 11
Because Muslim is a buzzword which gets everyone to react. Much like Christian. shinfernape: I think the sports team metaphor only goes for the extent to which you should respect them. As in, they are both important aspects of a person's life, but you could honestly do pretty well without either. And that others will inevitably disrespect them. That's the way the world works - deal with it. Also, I don't know the exact word for someone who discriminates against religions (faithist?), but someone who discriminates against Muslims is not racist. Just FYI. Now entering YMMV territory: 150 IP address: Your views of history as presented here seem like one big generalization. I'm pretty sure history is much more than that. And while you do have the right to say whatever crazy shit you feel like, you should at least maintain some sort of respect for other peoples' opinions, regardless of whether you agree or not.
comment #6278 crystallize 6th Feb 11
Now why would I respect other peoples' opinions if they're completely stupid opinions?
comment #6279 220.127.116.11 6th Feb 11
Simple, you respect the opinion itself, as opposed to the person who said it. Also, if you really think they're stupid opinions, why are you reacting to them? You don't really think you're going to change anyone's opinion, 'stupid' or not, do you?
comment #6319 crystallize 8th Feb 11
Now who said I was trying to change anyone's opinion? I'm not naive enough to think people actually care about logic and reasoning more than being correct.
comment #6320 18.104.22.168 9th Feb 11
@ Crystalize, I only used the term racist because that is how 150 adressed the issue as. I think it's quite simplein that yeah I would openl insult a sports team as that is part of friendly competition. But I wouldn't be as so stupid to insult Muslims or other religions like that. Like I said, if 150 doesn't respect religions then I wonder whether if they would have the balls to say that to Muslims in real life. I'm calling 150's bluff here because I think they're acting like an internet tough guy when in real life they wouldn't dare say this stuff.
comment #6326 shinfernape 9th Feb 11
Of course I wouldn't. People in real life do bad things to you in real life over it, and I really don't need to cause myself any more trouble. Much harder for it to happen over the internet as long as you exploit the advantages it has. The only difference between you and I are the things we disrespect and our awareness of our own behavior.
comment #6331 22.214.171.124 9th Feb 11
I think you guys are missing the point. The point [[Tropers/Shinfernape]] is getting at is that the symbolism is shallow and used crelessly, and that there aren't any likeable protagonists.
comment #6424 TweedlyDee 14th Feb 11
No, actually, I'm pretty sure one of the points was exactly what we were arguing about.
comment #6425 126.96.36.199 14th Feb 11
Yay! Hate Dumb!
comment #6544 TheMalignancy 22nd Feb 11
Just because we like to remind you of the fact that you hold stupid opinions doesn't mean we hate you.
comment #6557 188.8.131.52 23rd Feb 11
I really don't get what your problem is with the Judeo-Christian imagery, shinfernape. I mean, so what?
comment #7139 DonZabu 31st Mar 11
^ Just the way it is used is annoying to say the least. Somehow you've got lazer beams that end up making a cross, and these are coming from the beasts rampaging around Japan for crying out loud. My peeve with this is that they mishandled an issue but even worse, they made it Japan-centric and all this crap happening and relating to Japan for the most part. They took out the symbolic meaning of something that is religious and made it hollow. They use the cross in pace of the mushroom cloud because they just don't care. It's total cultural insensitivity coupled with taking out any meaning and using it in an national centric manner. But it's just brought out in a way that makes little sense anyways, probably less sense than the Bible. The Davinci code, this is not.
comment #7140 shinfernape 31st Mar 11
Nine reviews of Eva on TV tropes. And only one truly negative one... less than I expected. NGE is truly a love-it-or-hate-it show. So while I disagree with you, I think you have valid points. (overuse of symbolism and whatnot)
comment #8165 HandyHandel 18th Jun 11
Ok I have a question, why do I see so many complains and taking such offense about not using the full religious meanings? Two aliens fall on earth, the first was code named Adam, and the second Lilith, since they were going with this use of code words they named the whole race angels and used names of angels, they keep making it clear time and time again that they're making stuff up, getting it wrong on purpose, Artistic License if you will. They're even come up with Blood type blue and blood type orange, something that would seem retarded to someone who knew a little bit about biology if it wasn't fictional. They're not trying to be the Davinci Code, they're trying to be as different as that in fact.
comment #8492 marcellX 7th Jul 11
Because it's way more than code names as I've said with the cross-shaped laser blasts. I have no problem with reinterpretations of religions because that has been done for hundreds of years. My problem is that NGE does so to make something with little coherence at all. And it does so by taking a Japan-centric attitude and yet doesn't make much sense. I find it offensive because they can't be asked to do more of a meaningful interpretation and they just abuse their license to steal gratuitously from the Bible and do whatever.
comment #8495 shinfernape 8th Jul 11
Because it's way more than code names yes, but they're not obligated to make it more than that because they're not trying to be accurate as I explained before. The game PROTOTYPE your character Alex Mercer is code-named ZEUS, even thought he doesn't have any electrical powers (like the character from inFamous), you can try all you want but you can't find much relation between him and Zeus. In One Piece the fleet admiral is code-named Buddha, even though he's far from a pacifistic guy, you don't see Buddhists complaining. In Naruto there's a technique called Izanagi, it has nothing to do with the Shinto God but it fits with the other techniques named after other Shinto gods. I can go pointing out all instances were Christian, Shinto, Hindu, Buddhist, Judaism, Greek, Norse, Celtic, Egyptian, Mayan (you get the point) things were just vaguely used even though they are a LOT more than that. So yeah, lighten up.
comment #8517 marcellX 8th Jul 11
I suppose it never occured to you that they just didn't know that there would be some sensitve people out there who would be offended by using a few symbols from their religion. After all, the west always portrays religions and cultures accurately and meaningfully in fiction, right?
comment #8518 eveil 8th Jul 11
Alright, I'm gonna step in as an actual religious fellow and say the show didn't offend me a bit. Tell me, when you ask people what they think Christianity is like, do they hold up a copy of Eva as a shining example of all the Bible is about? No? Then don't sweat it. Using Biblical motifs does not make it a sacrilegious affair so much as a misguided one. If their lack of knowledge truly irks you, Bibles are rather cheap nowadays and Japan is only an ocean away. For you who seem so confused by shinfernape's offense, keep in mind that, surprisingly, there are still quite a few people in the world who do believe this stuff, and as such are rather nonplussed to see something so dear to them so mangled. You can count on your fingers the amount of fans of a work who actually enjoy Adaption Decay, and religious peoples are no different. And to those of you amateur philosophers being rude to the poor kid, kindly research the objects of your hatred before you spill out something as ridiculous as "History is worthless other than for taking pride and credit for things you didn't do and for learning from past experiences that others faced for you," which reaches those sorts of hilarious levels of nihilism that you only read of in comedies. It's only making you look like disgruntled suburban teenagers.
comment #14456 LostHero 26th May 12
comment #14458 MrMallard 27th May 12
I never said anything against the religion or was trying to come out as promoting atheism or belittling other's beliefs. My point was, how it was a little hypocritical and close minded that pretty much everything is changed and altered to fit a fictional story, from physics to religions and mythologies, so why it's ok when it's done with everything else but "your" religion, for example, so many people started complaining about Supernatural when it started taking an Artistic Lisence on Christianity but had no trouble when it did it with other things. Why when you understand full well you shouldn't take Buffy or Charmed as your guide to Wicca, or that you would fail a Cultural Studies test if you study for the Greek portion by playing God of War 1 through 3. Don't get me wrong, I know there are indeed misconceptions about religions based on popular culture (famously Dante's Divine Comedy and Roland's 2012) but it's obvious you don't have be afraid that people are gonna start using an animated show about giant organic mechas as a reliable source to learn about Christianity.
comment #14466 marcellX 27th May 12
People are self-centered, and are ignorant of things irrelevant to their own lives. And then they complain when others do the same.
comment #14471 Medder 28th May 12
I applaud you, sir (marcell), for not making this into a flame war. It seems few people these days can keep their cool on the internet (myself excluded), so it's nice to see someone have a go at it. I'm not sure if you're responding to me (given we make many of the same points), but nonetheless I agree with your assessment.
comment #14474 LostHero 28th May 12
I suppose instead of "myself excluded," that part should read "and I am not one of them." My bad.
comment #14475 LostHero 28th May 12
You know, if you didn't want a flame war, you really shouldn't have necrobumped this review.
comment #14477 Medder 28th May 12
I agree with Medder, but then again people should have the common sense not to reignite an extinguished flame war. Keep it civil. It's only a cartoon.
comment #14479 MrMallard 28th May 12
Of course. It's just, I figured the kid needed a gentle reprimand rather than a backhanded scolding. Seemed brash and rude of some of the other posters, hence my rather disappointed post. I apologize if I seemed uncivil. I just don't treat these sorts of matters with much gravity, and I suppose it was rather naive to think everyone else thought the same. (That really was a sincere apology, in case I had misconstrued something. It's rather hard to get tone across in plain text).
comment #14505 LostHero 29th May 12
Holy crap, the questions that the show asks is "What is the meaning of life?" in various formats and pieces and of course that's subjective as all heck. How are they going to answer that and why do you expect some clean morals shoved down your throat? You want an evil, super-powerful, active 'bad-guy,' and a heroic, undoubting, confident 'good-guy.' Just because they don't fit in your little niches you don't have to totally reject them, similarly to the way you group everyone who likes the show as 'viewing it as a religion.' Whaaaaaat. Also, I can't believe you're taking offense because vague religious imagery how does it even degrade them wow. But seriously, no offense, watch it again later when you crack your mind open like two centimeters, or watch something else.
comment #15829 Starburstia 16th Aug 12
I'm about 75% sure the revival of this review is going to lead to a new flame-war. Eva doesn't necessarily ask what the meaning of life is. If anything, it details a kid's journey trying to get over his depression, even after the world had thrown everything at him. The crosses and religious imagery? Gainax thought it looked cool. Evil Kaijuesque monsters fought? All a part of the narrative framing the main theme. At the end of the day, Evangelion is really nothing more than a good watch. You can ask questions and theorize all you want, but you have to remember: it's just a show. Don't take it so seriously.
comment #15836 MrMallard 17th Aug 12
That goes for you too, Starburstia. You revived a long-dead flame-war just to insult the fans you don't like. How selfish.
comment #15837 MrMallard 17th Aug 12
- analyzes review far too much*
comment #16685 GyraSolune 29th Oct 12
I partially agree with GyraSolune, though I would like to point out a few things about which I disagree. First: there are no true villains in Eva: even the Angels aren't evil. In Episode 24, Kaworu reveals that for the angels it's either rejoining themselves to Adam and initiating Third Impact, or be annihilated. One could argue that they have the right to live just as much as humans. Yet, there's only place for one species on Earth. The first angels were nothing more than simple animals, the last ones are shown to be intelligent: very alien, yes, but not malevolent. They don't hate humans: they simply do what they're born to do. Of course, much of this is All There In The Manual (which is probably my only problem with Evangelion), so it's understandable that many won't know it. About SEELE and Gendo, they were one of the things I liked more of Evangelion: because unlike many works who try to have Grey And Grey Morality, they aren't just jerks who nonetheless are right just because. That's one thing that always bugged me: including morally ambiguous figures in a show almost always ends up being a way to shove into the viewers' throats the idea that if you don't Kick The Dog at least once you're ineffectual and weak. Instead, both Gendo and SEELE are, in the end, no different than Shinji: they're scared kids looking for a safe place and certainties. In SEELE's case it's, again, All There In The Manual, but it's heavily implied that despite all his big speeches, Chairman Keel Lorenz is just a lonely old man who is crushed by the weight of his age. And Gendo is still the lonely and scared teenager he was back when he first knew Yui. Sure, he puts up the stoic façade, but he still has feelings and can be biased and influenced like everyone. Also, he didn't abandon Shinji "because he needed to focus on his work, for The Needs Of Many" and all that crap: he only did it because he was scared. It's actually refreshing to see, for once, a character who acts like a jerkass portrayed as a jerkass, instead of justifying his jerkassery. In doing so, in my opinion, Anno made him a much more human character and, ultimately, a character with which I could sympathise: and I could exactly because the show didn't make any attempt of justifying his actions or paint them as Necessary Evil. So I'd say that Evangelion's themes go deeper than just 'Collective at the expense of the individuals', and doesn't give a straight-up answer. Kaji, during Zeruel's attack, for example, told Shinji that yes, he could decide to simply not pilot the Evangelion again and let the world be destroyed... and that nobody could judge him for what he chose to do. And about the religious symbolism, come on people, I never saw anyone complaining about the wrong portrayal of, say, Voodoo. They're there to look cool and build the atmosphere. Do you really need to be offended by that? It is just symbolism, no references to the actual core principles of christian philosophy. On a side note: am I the only one who liked the reused footage and the interior monologues? I think they made a really great job on that.
comment #18080 Timeskipper 6th Feb 13
@ Timeskipper But this isn't about voodoo. The problem isn't that they borrow one or two things, they borrow extensively from those religions. Which is like getting repeatedly slapped in the face with your own shoes. @ Gyra Solune Michael Cera is constantly shown as constantly socially awkwards and shy but how many people call him a loner? That title belongs to people like the Punisher who aren't shy in the slightest. Gendo's plan involves pressing his bare hand onto a naked underaged schoolgirl and merging with her. That tends to slide along the side of villainy. Seele are also villains themselves for willing to cut lose ends and generally being old pricks. Even though they had budget problems, they still did those animation things and I didn't enjoy them. As for the needs of the many thing, well I don't see how the entire human population being forcibly assimilated can be seen as a good thing. Shinji ain't a nice kid. The End of Evangelion proves it by showing him strangle a girl whilst she lays helpless. He has to pressured into helping people. It seems without that pressure he'd be a girl-strangling psychopath. You ask how many shows want me to answer the questions, but a story is supposed to tell me what happens. Otherwise its just some madlibs where you can use the silliest things imaginable to fill in the gaps and that dilutes any chance of the story having and substancial meaning.
comment #18300 shinfernape 23rd Feb 13
By End, the budget was somewhat resolved. There was a brief stint in Development Hell, but they went ALL OUT on End to avoid the same deal as the last 2 episodes.
comment #18303 MrMallard 23rd Feb 13
But this isn't about voodoo. The problem isn't that they borrow one or two things, they borrow extensively from those religions. Which is like getting repeatedly slapped in the face with your own shoes.Are you even reading what people have been trying over and over to tell you have you?
comment #18304 marcellX 23rd Feb 13
Shinji is a loner who has low self-esteem and problems understanding kindness, Asuka has a superiority complex the size of the sun (which hides several other problems), Rei is an artificial life-form that is very near human, but that was created to herald the coming apocalypse at the behest of a group of powerful old men, Misato is an alcoholic with survivor's guilt, Ritsuko is the replacement in Gendo's bed for her own mother (and she eventually goes crazy in the end), Kaji is a womanizing triple-agent, Gendo is an evil mastermind motivated by love of all things, Yui is trapped in Unit 01, Kyoko Zeppelin Sohryu's soul is trapped in Unit 02, Naoko Akagi's soul is in the Magi, and the citizens of Tokyo 3 and the regular Nerv personnel are just along for the ride. Did I get that all right?
comment #18307 ThornSeal 24th Feb 13
Naoko programmed the Magi after herself as a mother, scientist and woman. Her soul has nothing to do with it.
comment #18314 MrMallard 24th Feb 13
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