YMMV RWBY Discussion

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Wyldchyld
Topic
10:13:21 AM Feb 5th 2016
edited by Wyldchyld
Narm entry brought here to discuss rewrite:
  • The very first minute of "Battle of Beacon" is supposed to be a horrifying scene, with innocent people fleeing in terror from the Grim in every direction. But having Blake and Weiss stand in the middle of this chaos and not react to it at all adds a certain level of comical suicidal obliviousness to the scene.


To clarify: I'm not questioning whether parts of the fanbase view the scene as narm. However, it's pretty clear from both their expressions and the things they say that the two girls are in absolute shock at what they're witnessing. I'd suggest a rewrite along the following lines. Any suggestions welcome.

  • The very first minute of "Battle of Beacon" is supposed to be a horrifying scene, with innocent people fleeing in terror from the Grimm in every direction. Blake and Weiss stand in the middle of this chaos and discuss meeting at the dock. They're clearly in shock at what they're seeing, but their muted behaviour downplays the drama happening around them.

Larkmarn
11:30:20 AM Feb 5th 2016
Yeah, that's misrepresenting it. Maybe "But having Blake and Weiss stand in the middle of this chaos in a Heroic BSOD and seemingly not reacting to it at all adds a certain level of comical suicidal obliviousness to the scene"?
Wyldchyld
03:19:46 PM Feb 5th 2016
How about "But Blake and Weiss stand in the middle of this chaos in a Heroic BSOD, and their apparent lack of reaction to it all adds a certain level of comical suicidal obliviousness to the scene."?
ForTaxPurposes
Topic
12:31:52 AM Jan 31st 2016
edited by ForTaxPurposes
Hi, I made the What an Idiot post regarding Mercury confronting Ruby. I thought it was idiotic that he chose to confront her after being told to lay low merely one episode prior. It was first removed because we didn't know enough about Cinder's plans yet, and then again because it was apparently so close to the time the plan would be executed that it wouldn't matter anymore.

Which, in my opinion, kinda makes this stand-off even MORE pointless and still potentially detrimental to their plan. For one, as I said, Ruby was not even investigating what she heard from Velvet about Coco's similar experience. All she did have was a hunch. Did that REALLY warrant needing Mercury to silence her, when Ruby couldn't have possibly been able to do anything to jeopardize their plan by that point? All this accomplished was make her aware that not only was Mercury perfectly fine, he's likely linked to the people causing this huge catastrophe. That sounds pretty idiotic to me.

And for that matter, if Mercury was never meant to lay low, why would the writers even write Cinder telling him to, when the next episode directly contradicts that order? Why not have her tell him to come out "when the time is right" or something, and then have a scene of him receiving a message to take care of Ruby? And why have the cover story say Emerald went back with him to Haven when she's seen watching the very next match?

Anyway, that's my case.
SilenceInTheLibrary
06:43:37 PM Jan 31st 2016
I think you're thinking too hard about it. Even if your point was valid, What an Idiot wouldn't really be the trope to put it under—that has more to do with defying orders than acting in a stupid manner.

The "lay low" business lasted a day, maybe two. Enough time for it to be important not to be seen, but not so much that it matters at the end of another episode. I also made mention of this part on Mercury's page, but consider him as a sociopath. He's defied orders once already simply for amusement (killing Tukson), and this is likely a repeat—he goes after Ruby for amusement, entertainment. He stops attacking for the same reason—not because the plan is already in effect, but likely because she's no longer running or fighting and therefore no longer interesting.
Zaptech
04:05:30 PM Feb 2nd 2016
As was discussed on the headscratchers page, Cinder's plan is at a point where they needed to keep any potential interference away, if only for a few minutes. It's clearly obvious that Mercury wasn't trying to kill Ruby, he was just there to stop her from interfering for a few moments until Emerald could mess with Pyrrha's mind. All they really needed to do was keep things quiet for the remaining day they needed to set up Pyrrha's fall. Cinder telling Mercury to lay low is, in retrospect, clearly just her telling him to stay out of sight to not ruin their cover for the short time they have remaining, but be ready to covertly step in if there's any potential interference at a crucial moment.
Wyldchyld
10:16:26 AM Feb 5th 2016
I second Zaptech's response.
Wyldchyld
Topic
04:27:03 PM Jan 24th 2016
edited by Wyldchyld
Removed to here to discuss what are genuine entries and what are just "fandom is not 100% united in opinion".

The move has been triggered by the last entry on the WoR segments which was added within an hour or so of the Maidens episode sponsor-only release. It's not possible to form a Broken Base situation in such a short, and restricted, amount of time. While I know fans don't agree on whether the segments are good, bad or just 'meh', I've never seen anyone care enough to argue about differences in opinion either.

All the entries could use a review, however.


  • Broken Base:
    • The voice acting is easily the most contentious aspect of the series so far. The question is whether you're basing your complaints on the voice pitches or the voice acting. In a remarkable transition, Vocal Evolution has rendered much of the conversation obsolete.
    • Ruby's Perky Goth voice at the end of the Yellow trailer led to mixed reactions as well. The high-pitched, somewhat childish tone does fit her, admittedly, given her short height, youthful appearance and apparent cheerfulness. However, it doesn't mean people particularly like it either. Part of the blame can be attributed to the fact that the way she was presented in the ''Red'' trailer suggested otherwise. Monty himself says that the "Red" trailer was more of a weapon resume than a character trailer; Ruby had no actual character in it. Of course, following episode 1, most people aren't complaining about it as much now due to Vocal Evolution and her personality becoming better established.
    • Weiss:
      • Her bitchy attitude during the first half of Season 1 caused some friction, especially from those who saw her trailer and pictured her as The Stoic lonely girl. Some like the extra fire (and the extra comedy that comes from her friction with other characters), but others dislike it on account of her being, well, a bitch when it isn't really needed. Finally seems to be lessening as of Episode 8.
      • Her Fantastic Racism regarding Faunus is causing her to fall back into the bitchiness in some fan's eye. Some believe she has her reasons (namely, being terrorized by a group of them that caused problems with her father), but the debate is in whether it makes her in the right or not to judge an entire race based on the actions of a few of them. Does not help that her jerk tendency is zig-zagging. Her acceptance of Blake in Vol2 and her attempt to get Blake to communicate with her team in chapter 2 calmed this particular break.
    • Volume 3 brought a much needed improvement to her personality from acknowledging Ruby as a friend to even sacrificing her spot in the tournament for Yang.
    • Some people have a problem with Blake's behavior during 'The Stray' and 'Black & White', on account of them believing she throws an almost uncharacteristic temper tantrum at Weiss. Others defend her behavior, proclaiming that it was only natural for someone like Blake to eventually get fed up with Weiss' (not entirely unjustified) Fantastic Racism. Some feel that it was rather cold of her not to defend Velvet from Cardin (other than stare in silent contempt), while others say that her inaction isn't particularly different from how literally everybody else did nothing to Cardin (on screen, of course).
    • There is a large Broken Base over Volume 2, Chapter 6 "Burning the Candle" regarding whether there is a case of Bait-and-Switch Lesbians. (The crux of the argument is that Rooster Teeth said that Remnant is "queer accepting" and then at the dance, everyone quickly went into male/female pairings.) While this ignores how Blake and Yang actually danced on-screen together before Sun arrived, and nobody batted an eyelash, the background dancers lacked any male/male or female/female pairings who were explicitly together during the slow dances.
    • The fact that Sun's remaining team members, Scarlet and Sage, don't show up in Volume 2 (save for one brief shot of them from very far away) despite appearing in the title opening and being hinted at during the hiatus, has left many fans very bitter.
    • One complaint from Vol1 was a lack of characters with diverse ethnicity. Some argue that since RWBY is, or at least is based off, an anime, the tendency for white and asian characters to have similar skin tones shouldn't be surprising. Emerald's addition in Vol2 was happily accepted, but the tendency for the majority of background characters to be various shades of white is still criticized.
    • Zwei is a mixed bag depending on who you ask. An instant hit with the fandom when he was first introduced, his further appearances have soured some fans into thinking Zwei was thrown in for comedic effect and/or fanservice. Most notably, in "Breach," while other characters expended considerable effort and resources to defeat Grimm, Zwei manages to stop one simply by headbutting it.
    • Whether Ozpin's decision on how to address the White Fang base at Mountain Glennote  was a good idea or not and how much blame he deserves for the subsequent breach is a hotly debated topic.
    • While many fans readily enjoy what's been released for Grimm Eclipse, many are upset that it just focuses on Team RWBY and relegates other teams (especially JNPR and CFVY) to just being possible DLC. However, since it's an early access game, it's likely other characters will come as a free update. According to Word Of God from the games creators during the recent RWBY life stream they are in fact going to add a lot more additional content to the game, including new playable characters.
    • Yang's winning streak. The only fight she's ever unquestionably lost was a Curb-Stomp Battle against the older and more experienced Neo. Other than that, Yang has won all of her fights and even against opponents that require teamwork, Yang is almost always the key element to ensuring Team RWBY's victory. Is making Yang a total Badass who wins all of the time an interesting and satisfying subversion to the usual expectations by showing just how powerful characters like her should be, or does Yang's badassery make her fights boring and predictable along with making the rest of Team RWBY, especially Ruby herself, look like incompetent wannabe's by comparison?
    • Ruby's losing streak. With the exception of her initial fight in the beginning of the series, solo fights tend to go poorly for Ruby, especially if Ruby should be relieved of Crescent Rose for that particular encounter. It's either portraying Ruby as in over her head against more cunning foes, realistic given her training with a sniper-scythe rather than her fists, or a blatant usage of The Worf Effect to bolster up the others.
    • When it comes to the World of Remnant segments, there's usually two sides. The one side that loves the segments as they expand on the lore of RWBY and find them to be nice break. Others, however, find it to be meaningless padding that would have worked better if it were put in exposition in the actual show, rather than be separated into a brief episode. There are others who find the segments being placed in the worst spot, usually when the story hits a high note. This becomes egregiousnote  when the episode focuses on the Maidens, as some people are split on whether this as a nice episode, being longer and even more animated than the other WoRs, or if it was pointless considering that Ozpin already talked about them in "Fall", right as the story hit its Darkest Hour.
Psyga315
06:28:07 PM Jan 24th 2016
When I added that, I was gauging the reactions on 4chan and comparing it to what people thought regardless.
DAN004
03:38:45 PM Jan 25th 2016
I believe we need to actually wait for, like, 2 weeks - a month after anything new is released to see if they can be added to the list or not.

So please, do not delete a whole entry based on one recent mistake alone.
Psyga315
07:19:36 PM Jan 25th 2016
So motion to restore the entry without the recent Wo R entry?
Wyldchyld
02:20:51 PM Jan 26th 2016
Dan, I'm not deleting the entry. I've brought it here for discussion to see which entries are valid and which are not. If everyone declares every entry valid, so be it. If people agree certain entries are valid, we can add those back to the page as they're agreed, and I can strike them out of the original post to show they've been sorted out.
jboone93
02:27:27 PM Jan 26th 2016
edited by jboone93
My two cents
  • The voice acting is easily the most contentious aspect of the series so far. The question is whether you're basing your complaints on the voice pitches or the voice acting. In a remarkable transition, Vocal Evolution has rendered much of the conversation obsolete.
  • Ruby's Perky Goth voice at the end of the Yellow trailer led to mixed reactions as well. The high-pitched, somewhat childish tone does fit her, admittedly, given her short height, youthful appearance and apparent cheerfulness. However, it doesn't mean people particularly like it either. Part of the blame can be attributed to the fact that the way she was presented in the Red trailer suggested otherwise. Monty himself says that the "Red" trailer was more of a weapon resume than a character trailer; Ruby had no actual character in it. Of course, following episode 1, most people aren't complaining about it as much now due to Vocal Evolution and her personality becoming better established.

Both of these are very outdated and only have to do with the trailers, which can lie anyway. These can be removed safely I think.

  • While many fans readily enjoy what's been released for Grimm Eclipse, many are upset that it just focuses on Team RWBY and relegates other teams (especially JNPR and CFVY) to just being possible DLC. However, since it's an early access game, it's likely other characters will come as a free update. According to Word of God from the games creators during the recent RWBY life stream they are in fact going to add a lot more additional content to the game, including new playable characters.

This has nothing to do with the show itself. If/When Grimm Eclipse gets a page, it can go there.
SilenceInTheLibrary
06:35:34 PM Jan 31st 2016
I agree, cut out the bits that are, at this point, years old. But leave what's recent. I would say that almost everything barring Yang and Ruby's win/loss streaks can be removed. The anger at the lack of Sun's teammates isn't broken base—it's literally the entire base. No one is happy about. Everyone is pissed and they are still pissed. The incendiary reactions to Zwei have calmed down, as have the parts about Ozpin's decision-making. Other than that, everything from before Volume 2 can be safely removed.
SilenceInTheLibrary
06:38:03 PM Jan 31st 2016
edited by SilenceInTheLibrary
Suggested fix:

- There is a large Broken Base over Volume 2, Chapter 6 "Burning the Candle" regarding whether there is a case of Bait-and-Switch Lesbians. (The crux of the argument is that Rooster Teeth said that Remnant is "queer accepting" and then at the dance, everyone quickly went into male/female pairings.) While this ignores how Blake and Yang actually danced on-screen together before Sun arrived, and nobody batted an eyelash, the background dancers lacked any male/male or female/female pairings who were explicitly together during the slow dances.

- Yang's winning streak. The only fight she's ever unquestionably lost was a Curb-Stomp Battle against the older and more experienced Neo. Other than that, Yang has won all of her fights and even against opponents that require teamwork, Yang is almost always the key element to ensuring Team RWBY's victory. Is making Yang a total Badass who wins all of the time an interesting and satisfying subversion to the usual expectations by showing just how powerful characters like her should be, or does Yang's badassery make her fights boring and predictable along with making the rest of Team RWBY, especially Ruby herself, look like incompetent wannabe's by comparison?

- Ruby's losing streak. With the exception of her initial fight in the beginning of the series, solo fights tend to go poorly for Ruby, especially if Ruby should be relieved of Crescent Rose for that particular encounter. It's either portraying Ruby as in over her head against more cunning foes, realistic given her training with a sniper-scythe rather than her fists, or a blatant usage of The Worf Effect to bolster up the others.

- When it comes to the World of Remnant segments, there's usually two sides. The one side that loves the segments as they expand on the lore of RWBY and find them to be nice break. Others, however, find it to be meaningless padding that would have worked better if it were put in exposition in the actual show, rather than be separated into a brief episode. There are others who find the segments being placed in the worst spot, usually when the story hits a high note. This becomes egregiousnote when the episode focuses on the Maidens, as some people are split on whether this as a nice episode, being longer and even more animated than the other Wo Rs, or if it was pointless considering that Ozpin already talked about them in "Fall", right as the story hit its Darkest Hour.
Wyldchyld
10:22:36 AM Feb 5th 2016
edited by Wyldchyld
Okay, I've given it a week for any further responses.

Take a look at my first post. I'll remove the ones that I've put strike-through on, and then replace the four remaining ones with Silence In The Library's rewrite.

Does that work for everyone?
MosquitoMan
Topic
11:43:49 PM Jan 23rd 2016
Can we add Ensemble Darkhorse back? If the problem is 'too many examples' then we just trim the fat or give the show its own page. It wouldn't be the first time a work has its own page for it.

It's a trope that applies to the show, how long are we going to hold it back? Last post regarding it was December 14th.
NNinja
12:49:59 PM Jan 24th 2016
Before that happens we should at least discuss who IS Ensemble Darkhorse in the first place. The reason it was cut out as far as i can tell was serious overuse by adding all likable characters wheter they were meant to be or supposed to have minor role.
Wyldchyld
04:21:31 PM Jan 24th 2016
edited by Wyldchyld
The reason it hasn't been added back is because the discussion stopped without resolution. Feel free to add anything you feel needs to be said to the discussion below - and may be add an edit reason to the YMMV page in the process to direct people to the discussion to get it started again.
Larkmarn
05:26:42 AM Jan 26th 2016
My issue with them is that the entries, especially early on, were basically "yep, this new character is sort of interesting and talked about" without waiting to see whether they actually wound up staying popular or just were interesting because they were new. A lot of those "Darkhorses" were just flashes in the pan, someone that fans talked about when they were new and swiftly stopped caring about.
Wyldchyld
10:26:10 AM Feb 5th 2016
edited by Wyldchyld
That was my issue, too. I'll add back Velvet and Perry since there was agreement on those two. Any others can be discussed if they crop up in future.
Karxrida
10:35:48 AM Feb 5th 2016
Just going to say that Roman is too important to qualify anymore.
Wyldchyld
03:20:45 PM Feb 5th 2016
That's fair enough.
Karxrida
Topic
07:22:50 PM Jan 23rd 2016
What's with all the Jaune hate?
NNinja
12:50:26 PM Jan 24th 2016
What hate? I don't see anyone particularly hating this guy.
Wyldchyld
Topic
11:08:42 AM Jan 20th 2016
Brought here for discussion:

  • Take That, Scrappy!:
    • Cardin finally receives a little retribution in the episode Forever Fall Pt. 2: Jaune finally growing a spine to stand up to him, his teammates running away from an incoming Ursa and leaving him behind, said Ursa giving him a beating, and then being saved by his own bully victim.
    • Episode 5, Volume 2: Watching Pyrrha absolutely demolish all of them together in a sparring match is extremely gratifying.

Cardin has never been given The Scrappy designation, so can the Take That, Scrappy! trope apply to someone who isn't The Scrappy?

I'm not asking whether or not Cardin should be designated The Scrappy. There's a forum thread where that question can be asked, should there be a desire to ask it.
AnoBakaDesu
11:52:43 AM Jan 20th 2016
edited by AnoBakaDesu
It doesn't necessarily need to be The Scrappy. Take That, Scrappy! explicitly says The Scrappy and its ilk, which is an index of hatedom tropes that are also perfectly applicable to Take That, Scrappy!. It's unusual for you to be pulling this into discussion before reading the trope in-depth. It's been asked in Ask The Tropers, too.
Wyldchyld
01:34:35 PM Jan 21st 2016
edited by Wyldchyld
I did read the trope in depth before I pulled. I found the trope description confusing and open-ended. However, if the trope description has been clarified anywhere and he doesn't need to be first designated The Scrappy, then I'm fine with putting it back on the page.
Larkmarn
01:47:53 PM Jan 21st 2016
edited by Larkmarn
Pretty sure that it shouldn't count. A Hate Sink getting its comeuppance is an entirely objective instance. A subjective trope like that is wildly inappropriate. Especially since Asshole Victim exists.

There's discussion in ATT... but ABD is the only one who responded so that's rather... inconclusive.
Peteman
06:28:50 PM Jan 21st 2016
Take That, Scrappy! is when a character who is hated by the audience gets their comeuppance, hence the subjectivity (it's possible for a character intended to be a Hate Sink to become liked despite the intention, it's why Draco in Leather Pants and Unintentionally Sympathetic exists). Asshole Victim is in-universe.
Larkmarn
06:14:00 AM Jan 22nd 2016
That's actually a good argument. The subjective-ness comes from the audience's catharsis, not the Scrappy-ness. Makes sense to me.
Peteman
04:40:55 PM Jan 24th 2016
edited by Peteman
Yeah. An Asshole Victim doesn't need to be a Hate Sink or The Scrappy. The author might have written them to be suave, they might have traits that the audience latches onto, despite or even because of the author's intent for them to be despised. Or they might have no character at all because they're a Plot Device to get the episode going.
NNinja
Topic
02:33:18 PM Jan 18th 2016
Explain this to me. Why killing Penny is considered Moral Event Horizon for Cinder's group? I'm not saying that it wasn't evil, but MEH is a line that seperates simple badguyism from irredeemable evil and i don't really understand why at this specific point they crossed that line. Keep in mind Penny wasn't their first kill, before that there was Tucson, who died because he pulled off Screw This, I'm Outta Here!, and unleashing Grimm invasion. And yet the line was not killing basically male, more unlucky version of Blake, or unleashing monster attack, or even more recent Grimm invasion Up to Eleven, but death of Ridiculouslyhuman Robot, which mind you, was key part to their plan we have yed to understand. Viewer-centered morality much?
AnoBakaDesu
03:34:24 PM Jan 20th 2016
Agreed. Unless someone can justify a reason for that entry to stay, burn it on the grounds that it's not in accordance with the trope's description.

That also raises the issue of shoehorning the trope in other series.
BlackSunNocturne
06:39:17 PM Jan 20th 2016
edited by BlackSunNocturne
Because Cinder and her crew of anarchists have been doing more and more evil. Cinder, for lack of a better term, nearly killed Amber because she wanted her powers.

She had Penny get brutally killed by a mind-controlled Pyrrha just to cause a scene. Penny, who had nothing to do with any of her plans up until that point.

Also: Moral Event Horizon's Laconic entry states it's "An act that puts its perpetrator beyond any chance of redemption."

I think causing a beyond brutal death of an innocent just to cause enough discontent to summon legions of Grimm would qualify there. Honestly, Cinder and her crew just seem to be piling on the villainy more and more. Any possibilities of their redemption at this point would be an Ass Pull at best.
Shaoken
11:26:18 PM Jan 20th 2016
You're missing the main point here; why is organising the severe maiming and possible death of Penny worse than trying to suck Amber's soul out through her face, murdering a man for trying to get out of a terrorist group or organising a Grimm incursion into a major population centre putting hundreds to thousands of people's lives in jeopardy? The only answer I can see here is because Penny is more popular than the rest of the victims, which does not justify it.

Also there are plenty of villains who have done similar or worse and still got redeemed without it being an Ass Pull, simply because the story was written well enough to justify it. So I say the MEH is very premature seeing as we don't even know what Cinder's backstory, motivation or true end goal is.
NNinja
12:52:28 PM Jan 24th 2016
Ok then, if we agree i'm cutting Moral Event Horizon out. If we ever agree on when exacly was it crossed and if it was crossed at all we can allways bring it back.
Larkmarn
Topic
07:59:11 AM Jan 14th 2016
  • Penny's Robotic Reveal in "A Minor Hiccup". It had previously been confirmed in the earlier episode "Black and White", which shows she has a large mechanical compartment in her body that holds her swords. note 

Got changed to this:

  • Penny's Robotic Reveal in "A Minor Hiccup". It had previously been confirmed in the earlier episode "Black and White", which shows she has a large mechanical compartment in her body that holds her swords.

For being natter. That's all well and good, but if the natter is true, then claiming that is had previously been confirmed is at the very least quite misleading.
Karxrida
04:15:10 PM Jan 18th 2016
The audience still called it much earlier than it was intended to be shown, so the entry still counts. Rewording it is the best you can do.
KuroMaboroshi
Topic
10:31:23 AM Jan 3rd 2016
I have noticed some debate on the internet about the recent episodes, with some praising them for the darker tone and heavier focus on the overarching plot of Cinder's plan, and the other side pointing out various plotholes and problems with the storytelling that have occured in the wake of said change of focus.

However, the Broken Base entry is already insanely large as it is, so I don't thing adding an entry for that would be a good idea until this phenomenon becomes more wide spread (if it ever does), which I assume can be properly judged once season 3 nears its end.

Still, as it is obviously difficult to keep track of all the different communities invested in RWBY, what's everyone's experience regarding this? Anyone else run into it yet? And how far spread do you think it should be before it calls for an entry on the page?
AlisterFaust
11:16:16 PM Jan 3rd 2016
In an effort to make sure that the Broken Base does not become completely swamped by examples like you mentioned I would suggest waiting until the volume ends and then judging the reactions from the typical sites (Reddit, Tumblr, etc.) along with whatever other communities bring up valid points. As of now we have more information as to what Cinder's plan is, but clearly not to the full extent, but it most likely involves unleashing a horde of Grimm at a festival celebrating the gathering of nations, and at least one or possibly more of the maidens. The bigger theories can go under WMG and the smaller plot holes that you mentioned I feel should go under Headscratchers until they are properly answered. I am totally open to other suggestions though.
jboone93
04:30:19 AM Jan 4th 2016
You could always give the broken base its own page.
AlisterFaust
07:32:42 AM Jan 4th 2016
Oh duh. Yeah you could totally do that as well.
Wyldchyld
Topic
01:15:12 PM Nov 30th 2015
edited by Wyldchyld
Ensemble Darkhorse seems have turned into nothing more than a list of characters that at least some people in the fandom like. Even for YMMV entries, that's People Sit on Chairs. I've brought the list here so that we can discuss who really is an Ensemble Darkhorse, which is a non-main character that turns out to be unexpectedly popular as opposed to having been designed to be popular.

The original list is as follows:

  • Ensemble Darkhorse:
    • Melanie and Miltia (the former being a bit more popular between the two) are shaping up to be this. The twins already have a good amount of fan art, and quite a few fans hope that they have a recurring role in the actual series. They've been seen in the Volume 2 opening, so the chances are looking good.
    • Peter Port has a small group of loyal Facebook fans for his Hidden Depths and Badass Moustache.
    • Velvet Scarlatina. Mere hours after she was revealed in Episode 11, she already had fanart and fanfics of her, along with a steady fanbase, from both sides of the ocean! Monty himself has responded to this one directly in the season 2 dev diary saying that due to Velvet's popularity she would get a stronger role in the series. It's to the point that, instead of trailers for Volume 2, there was a contest for Velvet's design, and then a simple teaser image of Velvet along with the silhouettes of her teammates.
    • Penny and Sun Wukong tied in a popularity poll for best secondary characters. Penny's popularity comes from her robot origin, while Sun has a cool weapon, cool fighting style, and is considered one of the more attractive males in the cast.
    • Adam has only been seen in a single promo trailer and a brief appearance at the Volume 2 finale, yet he has quite a following.
    • Roman Torchwick is also very popular despite his fairly limited screen time and few appearances, from Tumblr to 4Chan.
    • Neo, the freaky parasol girl who swooped in to save Roman, has already started dominating fan pages with art and speculation, no doubt thanks to her intriguing appearance and trickster type powerset. This only explodes after she trounces Yang.
    • Perry, the White Fang guard who wears glasses over his mask.
    • The leader of team CFVY, Coco. She easily defeats Grimm that took all of Team RWBY and Team JNPR to defeat and does so with style!
    • There's an awful lot of people who hope the chainsaw-wielding White Fang Lieutenant that fights Weiss isn't just written off as an Elite Mook.
    • The faunus girl seen for a moment in the preview clip for Volume 3 got a lot of attention immediately, even given she appears to be purely a background character.
    • The green-eyed Elegant Gothic Lolita girl in Volume 3's trailer generated quite a bit of intrigue from the fandom. The fact that she's already-established Ensemble Darkhorse Neo in disguise can't be hurting this.
    • The "enemy" teams in the first two episode of Volume 3 got a lot of attention from the fanbase for their neat weapons and designs, along with generally putting up good fights. Particular note goes to May Zedong, the sniper on Team BRNZ.
    • Scarlet David, due to the fact that he's voiced by Gavin Free.
    • Qrow and Winter have became instant fan favorites. Qrow for being a Crazy Awesome badass and a loving drunk uncle and Winter for being a cold, badass and loving sister.


My suggestions:

Most of these entries are characters who were deliberately hyped before introduction (eg, Neo, Adam, Qrow, even Winter), designed with fanservice in mind (so popularity is an expected outcome, such as Sun and his team), or People Sit on Chairs (someone in the fandom likes them).

Neo has been discussed on the RWBY forum thread and rejected from Ensemble Darkhorse in the past because she was so hyped by the creators before her introduction.

As far as I can see from the above list, there are only four genuine examples:

  • Velvet and Roman, confirmed by the creators to be one-shot characters who were such a hit with the fans that they were given expanded roles (Velvet's team won't be darkhorses because Velvet's popularity gave her team huge hype before they ever appeared).
  • Perry and the chainsaw-wielding Faunus are bit characters who have become extremely popular beyond all proportion to their roles and they should stay.
dRoy
02:05:12 PM Dec 2nd 2015
As for Perry and the Lieutenant (or whatever his real name is), do we actually have solid evidence for their popularity?
TheLaughingFist
04:32:45 AM Dec 5th 2015
edited by TheLaughingFist
I agree with this fix, we should also add an addendum that a character has to be around for more than a season, so no adding people that are well liked on introduction, and they can't be overly important in the story in the season they are introduced.
Wyldchyld
02:55:14 PM Dec 9th 2015
edited by Wyldchyld
@dRoy: I've seen people on a number of sites "meme" them, but that's just anecdotal, and whether or not it would be enough for Ensemble Darkhorse is another matter. I don't mind whether people want them associated with the trope or not, but I thought it fair to flag them since they do seem to have some kind of following at least, despite being only bit characters.

@ Laughing Fist: Would your season suggestion resolve dRoy's question? Also, is adding this addendum effectively customising the trope? Is that allowed?

Wyldchyld
06:48:07 PM Dec 14th 2015
Okay, this was added to the page as well:

  • Ensemble Darkhorse: The three unnamed finalists in the Vytal Festival Tournament have received a good deal of attention from the fanbase due to their cool designs.

So, are we adding this back as well?

At the moment, we've got Velvet and Roman for definite, and are decided on what we're doing with Perry and Banesaw?

If so, are the three unnamed finalists worthy of this or simply a current topic of conversation within the fandom?
SilenceInTheLibrary
Topic
09:27:22 PM Oct 26th 2015
Yo, give me some help on this. I figured Arryn and Barbara's comments (on how the fandom were getting way too hyped about Bumblebee/misinterpreting/taking things way too far in their appeal to the creators) might go in here somewhere. Is it Fan Dumb? It's not Creator Backlash, and I'm not sure it's Fandom Backlash. Here's my proposal:

  • Fan Dumb: The usual segment of fans that send death threats to writers isn't usually an issue, but eventually Arryn (Blake's VA) and Barbara (Yang's VA), despite supporting the ship themselves, said that fans tended to misinterpret and take Blake/Yang way too far, to say the fandom reacted well would be false.

I also do not have the source for this—I would swear I did, but it escaped my tag. Anyone got a link and know what I'm talking about?
Karxrida
09:47:51 PM Oct 26th 2015
SilenceInTheLibrary
11:34:47 AM Oct 27th 2015
Ahh. Pretend I never wrote this~.
Wyldchyld
Topic
02:20:37 PM Oct 21st 2015
edited by Wyldchyld
Base Breaker entry brought here for discussion:
  • The reveal that Qrow would be voiced by Vic Mignogna in lieu of Monty's death has gotten some people angry enough to want him to be removed from the production, or even going to the lengths of boycotting RWBY and/or Rooster Teeth for picking him! The fandom is split between accepting him as Monty's replacement, and the above.


My concern is that this is very close to 'troping real life people' given that it is complaining about executive decisions that had to be made to accommodate a real life person's death. Regardless of what decision was ever made, Monty sadly could never have voiced the character, and the plot has already set up the character to be important and require dealing with. What's left is therefore to either complain or support real life decisions made in the event of a real life person's death.

Is this eligible for a YMMV entry given the circumstances?
DAN004
04:09:23 PM Oct 21st 2015
I guess they wanted Neath Oum to voice him.
Karxrida
04:27:11 PM Oct 21st 2015
  1. Should probs be Broken Base if anything.
  2. People's opinions on whether they like a certain voice actor or not is legit for this, as long as the example makes it clear that they don't like them because of their work.
Wyldchyld
12:25:21 PM Oct 23rd 2015
edited by Wyldchyld
The example doesn't actually explain why there's dislike for the voice actor. The Forum thread has suggested it's because of things the voice actor has said, which would be unrelated to the work in question and therefore not characterisation. If anything, the wording makes it sound like the issue is about replacing Monty. It's not clear how it fits the YMMV item description.

If it is a wide-spread enough enough complaint (I've never encountered it on any forums I visit, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything), I have no problem with it being a Broken Base example.
Larkmarn
12:39:40 PM Oct 23rd 2015
Technically, a writeup for Broken Base doesn't need to explain why people dislike someone, though it would be appreciated. It just needs to explain that the base is split, not necessarily give reasons.
IshiMatsu615
06:41:27 PM Dec 7th 2015
Hi, I'm the person who originally added the entry. I know why people are angry about Vic in particular (long story short, they think he's homophobic and/or a pedophile, both claims have been disproved multiple times but people still don't listen, though some people did complain about his voice as well), but I didn't think adding it in would be a good idea due to Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement and all that. The complaints were primarily on tumblr, and from what I saw people were split by this to the point I considered it a Base Breaker or Broken Base example. I also figured most of the people complaining about Vic voicing Qrow was done by people who didn't know Monty was going to voice him and thought they hired Vic just because.

Either way, proceed with the example as you see fit.
Wyldchyld
Topic
08:20:39 AM Apr 12th 2015
edited by Wyldchyld
The Base Breaker entry is insanely long. I've tried to cut it down as much as I can without removing the point of what's splitting fans. Any suggestions would be great:

Base Breaker
  • The trailers showcased each member of RWBY except for the Black Trailer, where Blake shared the spotlight with Adam, and at one point was saved by him. The fandom was split between viewing the Black Trailer as an intriguing plot set-up or Adam stealing Blake's thunder before the show had even started.
  • Ruby is either viewed as a character who is learning and growing into her role as a future leader of note, or as someone who is being portrayed as too inexperienced and childish to carry the show as leader. There is also disagreement about whether her lack of screentime due to the size of the cast further harms her portrayal as leader.
  • Jaune is a lovable loser with an instinct for strategy and leadership whose story arc dealt with his lack of combat experience, how he's being bullied by Team CRDN, and how to deal with women. The fandom disagrees on whether he's an audience surrogate for introducing the world who is working hard to gain real skill in combat, leadership and socialising, or a hypocrite who needs to take his own advice about women, and who is a Butt Monkey wasting screentime that could be spent on more useful characters.
  • Penny was either an intriguing character with cool combat skills and a lovably quirky personality, or yet another new character hijacking the finale that could instead have been spent be spent on giving the main characters a chance to shine.
  • The Volume 2 finale introduces Team CFVY's fighting abilities which a lot of fans had anticipated and loved. However, it also reduced main character screen time and shifted focus away from the plot build-up in previous episodes. Fans are split between enjoying the introduction of CFVY and their abilities or criticising the loss of plot momentum and the lack of threat tension due to rushed animation as a result of the staff's very tight scheduling. Coco in particular is either praised or criticised for her overpowered destruction of the Grimm threat Team RWBY couldn't handle by themselves.
Wyldchyld
02:25:06 PM Apr 12th 2015
Removed the Jessica Nigri comment based on feedback from the forum thread.
Wyldchyld
Topic
05:19:51 PM Feb 3rd 2015
edited by Wyldchyld
Harsher in Hindsight
  • The criticisms of the Season 2 finale's animation, now that it's the last thing Monty Oum completed before his untimely death.
    • Some of the songs are also harder to hear after Monty's death. Most poignantly, This Will Be the Day, Time To Say Goodbye, and Wings.
"This world's unforgiving, even brilliant lights will cease to burn..."


I have removed this to here. The comment about criticism of the final episode isn't this trope because it's talking about the impact on an audience reaction, not an in-universe event. I'm not sure about leaving the song reference, however. Any thoughts on how best to handle this?
AnotherDuck
04:45:28 PM Feb 25th 2015
edited by AnotherDuck
The ending note on on "Funny Aneurysm" Moment is: "since all actors and creators are mortal, if someone mentions death or plays a character who dies, and then die themselves, that's not a "Funny Aneurysm" Moment unless there's some connection to the circumstances of the death." While it's a different trope, they're similar enough that that still applies. I've as such removed the example. The issue has also been raised in the RWBY forum thread.
Sp8des_Slick
Topic
02:34:47 PM Sep 13th 2014
I just noticed that people are filling the Arc Fatigue section with nothing but Jaune.

We might have to rename that section Jaune Arc Fatigue.
DAN004
Topic
08:25:52 PM Jan 7th 2014
Can someone explain where the name "Pollination" come from and how it describe an OT 4? :/
Larkmarn
08:54:08 PM Jan 7th 2014
Pollination = Bumblebee + White Rose.

Bees pollinate flowers, so pollination is a process that involves both bees and roses. I've... never heard the term before and it does kinda reek of a troper getting too clever but to be perfectly frank I don't have my ear to the ground on this fandom.
DAN004
06:26:16 PM Jan 10th 2014
Ah, I see. Clever name :D
Larkmarn
Topic
08:34:11 AM Nov 7th 2013
Pulled this before it got into an edit war:

  • Unfortunate Implications: The Faunus, the Token Minority group of the story, have recently begun to have a greater presence in the narrative. Their main outstanding feature is their being half-human and half-animal...but the only animals seen so far are the Grimm, pitch black demon-like creatures that are usually killed on sight. So, this raises a question of where the hybrid species came from.

Personally, I'm not certain what the Implications here are. Is it an implication of... bestiality? Except I never got the idea that Faunuses (fauni?) were Half-Human Hybrids in the sense they had a human parent and an animal parent, so much as just a separate species that's a Little Bit Beastly.
Greenmonk
09:39:14 AM Nov 7th 2013
edited by 174.240.0.130
But how do you get that seperate species, especially with so many variants? Pretty much all examples of Little Bit Beastly are either a biological experiment or demons. The Grimm are the closest thing to demons we've got and we've yet to establish whether or not this world even has regular animals or the technology to bond animal and human DNA, let alone create an entire species for whatever reason.

So, it doesn't directly point to bestiality, and I hope I'm wrong, but right now it is an Unfortunate Implication.
Larkmarn
10:08:51 AM Nov 7th 2013
That's meeting the implication more than halfway, I think. You're assuming (for some reason) the only reason that that a Little Bit Beastly are because of cross-breeding, rather than the idea that they're just, you know, a species (which is how they've been shown so far). And then you're assuming that the cross breeding must be with the Grimm even though we haven't seen any cat, monkey, or rabbit Grimm (let alone that they'd be compatible with human DNA). Not to mention, it's explicitly a fantastic setting. Any number of Aura or Dust-based explanations could exist.
Greenmonk
01:50:47 PM Nov 7th 2013
...I'm not crazy. YOU'RE crazy! AHAHAHAHAHA

  • crashes through glass window and runs off cackling into the night*
Wyldchyld
02:20:10 PM Oct 21st 2015
edited by Wyldchyld
Wrong location.
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