YMMV Pokemon X And Y Discussion

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06:09:05 PM Jan 30th 2017
Just as a note (figured I'd put this here before editing) it is indeed possible, though still darn difficult, to get five stars on Tile Puzzle unlimited (I actually find it the easiest out of the three). The trick with the Hard ones is to deduce the position of the frame pieces.
08:17:25 PM Sep 18th 2016
So is Hydreigon considered a Memetic Loser? I haven't really seen any fans treat it as a loser compare to how some fans treat Delphox and Zygarde (before that reveal) before.

Sure, it's now extremely weak to Fairy-type. But have that ever stop Tyranitar and Weavile from Fighting-type moves before? Still, the example for Hydreigon is related to the metagame, so it should belong to Website/Smogon rather than here. (don't blindly move it to there, though)
07:48:20 PM Mar 1st 2016
So a "It's been 3000 years" KYM entry has been created, should I put that link for "It's been 3000 years"? I'm unsure of it though since it contains spoilers from X and Y.
07:54:23 PM Mar 1st 2016
We don't need a link to KYM. What we have under Memetic Mutation explains it well enough that links are not necessary.
02:10:02 AM Aug 28th 2014
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I'm going to reinstate That One Boss for Grant. It's called YMMV for a reason, and the Grant's entry in That One Boss still exists.

This troper had some serious trouble trying to get rid of both of his fossil Pokémon, and yes, I had a Grass-type (which ended up being useless against both Pokemon), Water-type, a Fighting-type, and a Steel-type. Both Pokémon had such ridiculous bulk as to render super-effective moves as scratch damage, and my water Pokémon nearly got OHKO-ed in the process. Furthermore, it all came as a shock to me, because most other 2nd Gym Leaders that I've played did not have such thorough strategy. Misty was a joke if you had a Bulbasaur/Pikachu, Bugsy also could easily be countered if you had Geodude, Pidgey/Hoot-hoot or a Cyndaquil. Even Leonora is completely doable if you had a Roggenrola, and/or a Timburr/Sawk/Throh.
05:51:43 AM Aug 28th 2014
I personally can't imagine anyone having trouble against him, but it's YMMV.

Though honestly, I question why we have a That One Boss section if there's a Pokemon page for that anyway.
06:44:48 AM Aug 28th 2014
Because this page is more specific and more easy to reach, too.
08:01:01 AM Aug 28th 2014
Just a link to the That One Boss page seems like it'd be a lot less redundant.
01:24:19 PM Jun 13th 2014
Pulled the entire Creator's Pet section:

  • Creator's Pet:
    • Mega Mewtwo Y, due to its being marketed more aggressively than most of the other new Pokémon and Mega Evolutions (even including Mega Mewtwo X). This reaction is largely due to its appearance in Pokémon: Genesect and the Legend Awakened and the movie's failure to catch on.
    • Charizard for being the only other Pokemon to have two Mega Evolutions instead of one. Slightly more Egregious than Mewtwo due to Charizard being tournament legal, its being one of a set of three supposedly "balanced" starters, and Charizard X beating the crap out of Mewtwo in Pokémon Origins.
      • Again, the trope is more than just "aggressively marketed." Charizard isn't a Scrappy, that's for sure.
    • Blaziken, for being the only Hoenn starter made available to the player as well as being the only one with a Mega Evolution. Justified, as Mega Blaziken was revealed to be one of a set of three Mega-Evolved Hoenn starters in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, making its appearance in X and Y a tease for those games.
      • The Torchic distribution may also be a reference to the fact that the national animal of France is a rooster.
      • Same as Charizard. Special treatment doesn't equal Creator's Pet
    • Pikachu gets this treatment even more than before due to having a new Pokémon Speak cry, which no other Pokemon has - whether you like the new cry or not, it is indicative of Pikachu getting special status. Goes Up to Eleven when you realize that Pichu and Raichu have more "traditional" cries, although Pikachu's case is somewhat justified in that it had Pokémon Speak before in Yellow Version.note  Despite this, it's generally agreed that Pikachu's case here isn't nearly as bad as it was during Generation V (see the Pokémon Black and White page for more details).
      • Okay, just poorly written. And again, the entire gist of it was "he has a Pokémon Speak cry
    • Dedenne, Pikachu's new "cousin" this generation, is a variation of this. While it is indeed overmarketed and hated by many older fans, Dedenne is mostly marketed towards young children, who don't mind it at all, via the anime and toys. In anything aimed towards a larger demographic or specifically towards older fans, Dedenne is usually ignored.
      • So its intended market likes it... and the nonintended market doesn't even hate it? Yeah, no.
12:34:14 PM Feb 12th 2014
Under Broken Base:

"While the Kalos region is popular and praised for being huge and well-designed, some fans of the Unova games view it as a Creator's Pet; Kalos very faithfully replicates the French atmosphere, culture and geography, while the same can't be said about Unova and America (Unova doesn't even have a Statue of Liberty equivalent, and instead has Japanese shrines and the like). Not helping matters is that Kalos is the region with all the huge overhauls to gameplay and breeding, whereas these fans argue that Unova, as the first non-Japanese based region in the series, would have been a more "iconic" point to introduce these changes."

This is the first time I heard this complaint and even then, people are complaining because an improvement was made? What?
12:35:48 PM Feb 12th 2014
That doesn't even make sense. Cut it.
10:03:26 PM Aug 21st 2014
Apologies for reopening this old topic, but I'm kind of curious about this as well. It was added back in, but I didn't see any evidence given for it being put back in. It just was without any conversation on the matter here or a note explaining why. Related to this, I've been seeing a lot of the BW vs. XY rivalry being put up over the two pages, which I've not seen in any section of the Pokémon fanbase, except for here (at least, no more then say, RS vs. DP or the like). If there's any reason why this was put back up and why this rivalry has been brought up constantly on both pages, just share it and I'll drop it, but I'm really curious why this is all here when at large, I haven't seen the fanbase give it much thought.
01:08:01 AM Aug 22nd 2014
You'll have to ask Darth Megatron for this. That said, Americans Hate Tingle as-is is for characters, so it should probably be removed.
06:14:17 AM Aug 22nd 2014
I get the feeling it's one of those "some people = me" situations where the writer is saying it's a popular opinion to get it on the page. They've done it before claiming opinions I'd never heard of were the majority.
07:56:50 AM Aug 23rd 2014
I agree that it needs removing. I've never heard that opinion before.
09:47:26 AM Nov 27th 2013
  • In terms of Protag/Rival ships, Shauna/Serena is surprisingly more popular than Shauna/Calem.


  • Helioptile. While it is based on a frilled lizard, with its frills down it looks more like a lizard crossed with a puppy.

Why were these removed? Serena/Shauna DOES seem to be more popular than Shauna/Calem, and Helioptile DOES look like a puppy with its frills down.
11:19:21 AM Nov 27th 2013
What were they removed from?
01:51:50 PM Nov 27th 2013
I'm not sure where the Helioptile was removed from (I think it was under Ugly Cute). The Protag/Rival ships was under Fan Preferred Pairing.
02:33:51 PM Nov 27th 2013
If that's the case, then probably because it's not really Ugly Cute. It's pretty traditionally cute.

No clue about the shipping one, though.
03:11:43 PM Nov 27th 2013
I'm not sure if Ugly Cute was the trope or not.

Would it be all right to add the shipping one back in, then? Or should I wait?
06:51:48 PM Jan 20th 2014
"Serena/Shauna DOES seem to be more popular than Shauna/Calem"

That still falls under misuse though. Being slightly more popular than another pairing doesn't making something the Fan Preferred Couple. Fan Preferred is when the greater majority of the fandom is shipping a pairing.
08:37:52 AM Nov 19th 2013
I don't think the rivals need to be moved to 'Broken Base'; nearly everyone despises them (bar the main rival of the group)!. Any thoughts, or should I move it back?
08:49:11 AM Nov 19th 2013
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Well first off, they'd be Base Breaker, not Broken Base.

Anyway, I hate the fat dancing guy and the little know it all, but I'm fine with the girls. I don't expect this is an accurate representation of the fandom, though. Each of the guys is objectively a Flat Character.

I'll say this: the part I dislike most about Tierno is the wasted potential: guy's obsessed with dancing, talks about how he's trying to find inspiration about dancing from his Pokemon, and he doesn't have a dancing-Pokemon team? I mean, Meloetta's technically a Legendary, but what about Jynx, Hitmontop, Aromatisse, Ludicolo, Lilligant, Bellossem... they could've easily filled out a pretty diverse team with Dance Battler Pokemon, which would've been a lot more interesting and fitting.

(Yes, I know his Pokemon had moves with Dance in their names but I still don't think that's nearly as interesting or noticeable)
07:22:55 AM Nov 13th 2013
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I actually don't see why Pokemon X/Y would be considered to be unreasonably easy. Especially considering that a lot of trainer battles seem to involve better AI, more moves to choose from, and Abilities to counter type advantages of the player's Pokemons.

Example 1: Lesandre's Mega Gyarados vs my Raichu. I've expected my Raichu (5 levels higher than Gyarados) to effectively exploit the 4x weakness with Thunderbolt, but I wasn't able to OHKO Gyarados. Instead, if I remember correctly, he OHKO-ed me with either Earthquake or Bulldoze (either way, it was Ground-type).

Example 2: Viola's Vivilion in the rematch. It used powder against my Pansear, effectively rendering my two Fire-type attacks useless. Otherwise, it would have been a straightforward 1-2 hit KO.

Example 3: One of the trainer's Dedenne in the Lumiose Gym continually did the combination of Rest, then Snore. Either due to sheer bad luck, or RNG working against me, my Steelix continually flinched and could not KO Dedenne, so I had to switch out to another Pokemon.

Also, fighting types are the worst - particularly those that have Endeavour. I was in a horde battle at one point, with mons at least 15-20 levels lower than me, and there was one Pokemon (a Scraggy?) that wiped 70-80% of my HP with Endeavor. And it wasn't even a super-effective attack. (updated - Yeah, it wasn't an OHKO. Close, though)

Admittedly, I haven't played Gen 3-5, so I had a bigger learning curve than many other players. (The previous I played was Crystal.) Also, I've raised around 12 Pokemon in my rotation, and most of them were on par or only 5 levels higher than the Gym leaders, so that could be it. At any rate, though, I had a number of nasty surprises, and for this reason, I didn't really find it unreasonably easy. How about you?
07:28:08 AM Nov 13th 2013
I'm pretty sure it's impossible to OHKO something with Endeavor. But yeah, those Scraggy hordes were annoying. If only for Sand Attack.

I found it really easy, myself. I cycled out Pokemon a lot so they weren't horribly overlevelled, but the kicker was that there were so few fights against trainers with six Pokemon. I was able to win most fights through simple attrition, even if they took out multiple of my Pokemon in one go.
09:54:05 PM Nov 13th 2013
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Scraggy? Honedge just laughs at 'em. The game has a few difficulty spikes, but nothing notorious so far. Some are just closer to Goddamn Bats or Demonic Spiders at best. There's many times where they purposely put a guy in the area to heal you.

We probably could slim down the entry to a few instances and examples, though.
03:00:31 PM Nov 17th 2013
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I thought Scraggy was part-Dark type. Or do they (at least the ones you do HE against) not have any dark-type moves to maul Honedge?
03:07:06 PM Nov 17th 2013
They're level 5 so... yeah. No. He doesn't get a Dark attack until 9.
02:09:11 PM Dec 28th 2013
The game is as easy as you make it. If you turn off experience share, don't use Amie or Super Training, and don't abuse obviously powerful things like Korrina's Mega Lucario or Mega Charizard Y, it's a slightly more difficult regular Pokemon game (Thanks to the large levels and better AI). If you want a real challenge, you can do a Nuzlocke run like in any other Pokemon game, or a mono-type run if you're sick of critical hits ruining your Nuzlockes. I especially like the mono-type run idea, since this game has a huge variety of wild Pokemon; the only types a mono-type run will have trouble assembling a team with are Ice and Ghost, especially Ice.
11:13:34 AM Nov 10th 2013
I've taken out the Memetic Mutation section, since none of them were actually memes. If anyone's interested, here's what I cut:

  • Memetic Mutation
    • In general, making crack theories centered around the Fire starter evolving into yet another Fire/Fighting-type Pokémon in its final stage; specifically, stating that it'll be a kickboxer. This has gone to the point where when new Pokémon are revealed with their typing unknown, some will state it will be Fire/Fighting. Thankfully averted for XY, as Delphox, the final stage of the Fire-type starter Pokémon Fennekin, is Fire/Psychic' (a type that is practically the polar opposite of the Fighting type).
    • Xerneas is "Majestic as Fuck".
      • Some people even call it Jesus. Yes, Xerneas is the Pokémon equllivant to Jesus himself.
    • Many comparisons have been drawn between Sylveon and Kyubey.
      • Or alternatively, Sylveon being a Magical Girl.
      • Sylveon has become memetic in its own right, thanks to a fanart with it caressing a clearly-unnerved Pikachu with its ribbons and saying, "My bows are made of flesh."
    • "I named my Fenekin "Mozilla." "Why?" "BECAUSE IT'S A FIRE FOX!"
    • The "handle" on top of Mega Mewtwo Y's head is the subject of a lot of jokes. Also, jokes about it resembling a Sonic the Hedgehog character.
    • "NO ES FAKE" generated from a Spanish tweet apparently revealing the Fairy type. It turned out to be real.
    • BENCHES!
    • "If the games are set in France, can we finally run from Trainer battles?" You can't, by the way.
    • Crobatman and Fletchling.
      • It wouldn't be surprising to see people re-nicknaming their Fletchling once it evolves to a Talonflame to Nightwing considering that the original Robin grows up to become Nightwing. Also it helps that the New52 costume of Nightwing is Red and Black.
    • Flabébé, the ludicrously cute flower fairy, is known as the KILLER OF DRAGONS, due to its typing.
      • Other Fairy Types have also been given these memes. Jigglypuff in particular has fanart of it frightening Dragonite.
    • Before the game came out, any comment about a possible Fairy Gym Leader/Elite Four/Champion became the trainer being an older, built gentlemen with a love of the adorable types and dressed like Sylveon. Some suggested that he would basically be Jorgen Von Strangle. However, these theories ended up being jossed when it was revealed that the Fairy type Gym Leader was female.
    • With Mega Evolutions being a thing, speculation abounds over who else will be getting one. However, one thing most people can agree on is that each one has to have long luxurious hair, like Mega Ampharos. In fact, its hair is a meme in itself.
    • Mega Meganium and Mega Yanmega.
    • Mewtwo being referred as to any Dragon Ball character (Frieza for normal form, Super Buu for Mega Mewtwo Y, and Gogeta for Mega Mewtwo X, specifically).
    • Connecting Litleo and Pyroar to The Lion King, and hoping that its shiny coloration evokes Kimba the White Lion. Bonus points if any of the Luxray line are involved.
    • Pangoro being compared to Jotaro Kujo, due to its fur resembling a Badass Longcoat rather like the one Jotaro wears.
    • "Nintendo'd", after Nintendo took steps to remove a leaked copy of the game from the hands of Kosthedin, a player who purchased it early. For the record, said fan handed his copy over willingly.
    • "Once, there was an ugly Binacle..."
    • Pokémon-Amie generated a lot of naughty jokes when it was announced, given the interface similarity to "interactive games" like Doki Doki Majo Shimpan. Poor Gardevoir and Lucario attracted a lot of these jokes.
    • Naughty PR Videos are making the rounds.
    • What does Delphox say? (based off the viral video What does the fox say?)
    • "It's bonding time!"
    • "It's morphing time!" when the protagonist does the sort-of "Super Sentai" Stance. (Unfortunately, it's the Pokémon morphing.)
    • Fans comparing the Hex Maniac's design to Tomoko from Watamote.
    • "Espurr has seen some things".
      • Espurr in general has become a meme. Its name and especially its facial expressions in Pokémon-Amie have taken the fandom by storm.
    • Congratulations, Snorlax! It took seventeen years, but you finally managed to stand up!
    • "Don't drop that Dedenne" Warning: Ear Worm Present
    • Hoenn Confirmed! The common response to any reference to the Hoenn region is to say that Ruby and Sapphire remakes are incoming. This one has become a Discredited Meme after the Hoenn Confirmed jokes got out of control.
    • Professer Sycamore isn't immune; many jokes have been made about both his attractiveness and his incompetence.

The only I can see being put back is the "Gen 3 confirmed!" one.
08:37:33 AM Nov 12th 2013
Have you been on Tumblr lately? Espurr's Thousand-Yard Stare has most certainly achieved meme status.
08:52:05 AM Nov 12th 2013
Agreed. It's definitely reached Memetic Mutation.
09:50:08 AM Nov 12th 2013
I don't go on tumblr, so I didn't know about that one! Probably best to add that one back then.
11:40:08 AM Nov 12th 2013
Personally: I've seen the Snorlax meme, Hex Maniac, Espurr's Thousand-Yard Stare, Fairy-type becoming a Memetic Badass, and BENCHES on places other than this site.
01:16:50 PM Nov 12th 2013
They aren't really memes though, just small jokes. I don't think any of these are widespread enough to be considered.
01:42:36 PM Nov 12th 2013
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05:32:08 PM Nov 12th 2013
I second the fairy examples as those have been pretty present in comics and fan art. Similarly, "Hoenn Confirmed!" is also something I've seen used a lot across the different forums so I would say you could put that back.
01:45:33 PM Nov 14th 2013
I'm going to add Espurr, Hoenn Confirmed, and Fairy being a Memetic Badass.

I'd also like to add Snorlax, but I'll hold off for more opinions on that.
01:56:25 PM Nov 15th 2013
Fair enough.
10:17:09 AM Nov 7th 2013
My last grievance is the Ensemble Darkhorse section. This tends to get misused a lot so I have to ask, how many of them actually really fit the description? By virtue of the trope description the starters and legendaries should not be listed on any of the YMM Vs since they are automatically the mascots of the generations.
10:49:35 AM Nov 7th 2013
edited by
Well, let's see. Here's ones I've personally noticed in the fandom:

  • Mega Kangaskhan was really well-recieved.
  • Goomy has his own subreddit.
  • Hawlucha is popular, if only for Flying Press. And being a Masked Luchador.
  • Tyrunt was popular just for being a T-Rex.
  • Haven't heard of this myself, but the description of Malamar makes me think that's valid.

Not valid:
  • Espurr is less Ensemble Darkhorse and more Memetic Mutation.
  • Honedge, much as I love it. It's definitely a Base Breaker. Aegislash might count, though...
  • Sycamore, since he's not really part of an Ensemble. He's a major player.
  • All starters and box legendaries are not valid. They're way too major to be considered a darkhorse.

The rest I'm not sure of how valid they are, to be honest.
06:51:01 PM Nov 11th 2013
Also, anyone heavily advertised, or shown off just for a new evolution might not count. Inkay was pretty well known, and since his point is to show off a new evolution type alone, him being popular seems more because they advertised him. I'd say he's not valid.

The rest I agree with. Aegislash could count, seeing as it wasn't heavily advertised, right?
07:41:34 PM Nov 11th 2013
The issue with Aegislash is I don't know how popular he is. He's definitely not a main character, so that's fine.

In terms of "too popular to count," I'm pretty much fine with any Pokemon but Starters, Legendaries, and particularly big-name Pokemon like Eeveelutions. I don't think Gimmick Pokemon like Inkay are disqualified. It's not like it's a Pokemon forced upon the player at all.
08:10:55 PM Nov 11th 2013
Hmm. I probably misunderstood then. I thought heavily advertised considered them "too important" to be one. Never mind, then.
07:09:39 AM Nov 12th 2013
To be honest, I'm not really up on how much advertising it got. I personally didn't see any myself, other than the occasional mention in an article about how it's a new type of evolution. Nothing compared to the likes of the starters, box legendaries, movie-centric Pokemon, or any of the early Pokemon (by early, I mean the first ones revealed in a Generation, like Zoroark in B&W).

Plus, I'm inclined to keep it since its entry is more than just "yes, people like this Pokemon."
07:44:14 AM Nov 12th 2013
edited by
Pulled some misuse of Ensemble Darkhorse:

These can't count because they fail to be part of the Ensemble; they're too heavily promoted. Ensemble Darkhorse isn't just about being popular, it's specifically about a minor character being unexpectedly popular. Bad enough to include one Starter, but every starter family was on the page. That's just misuse.
  • Fennekin more or less received the same treatment as Snivy from the moment it was revealed.
  • Though Chespin's initial reception was... mixed, it eventually achieved this status largely due to being a Ridiculously Cute Critter who resembles Oshawott, who, ironically enough, received the same treatment as Chespin. Better yet, when the games were released, it came to be considered one of the best Grass-type starters when it comes to battle performance, learning useful moves such as Bite and Rollout at very early levels.
  • Professor Sycamore has already become one of the most popular regional professors, due to his good looks, kickass theme, and for being the first professor in the series to actually battle the player.
  • Out of the Kalos starters' final forms, Greninja seems to be the most popular for its cool design and its Hidden Ability making it a top-tier OU contender. Similarly, as for the Kanto starters' Mega Evolutions, Mega Charizard X gets the most love for two reasons: for giving Charizard the Dragon type and for making it a legitimate threat in OU.

Pulled this because it's Memetic Mutation, and Espurr is mentioned in the first bullet point anyway.
  • Espurr, in particular, has become quite popular on Tumblr because of its thousand yard stare.

Please discuss here before putting it back again.
11:07:29 AM Nov 12th 2013
edited by
I think this plays into how the trope has deviated from its original meaning, at least as far as this franchise is concerned. At first it used to mean that it's a minor character that was a part of an ensemble, but now it's become a term for any character that has become more popular then what was expected.

It probably also doesn't help that certain characters still manage to be extremely popular even outside of being the mascots/on the forefront. Charizard for instance is no doubt one of the most popular Pokemon of all time but wouldn't count as a minor characters since not only is it a starter, it was originally one of the main mascots of its respective generation. Same with examples like Lugia, Piplup/Oshawott in the anime and (to a lesser extent) Lucario. So there's that somewhat muddled line in the sense that these Pokemon are extremely popular to the extent that they far outshadow others in their group even over that of what's expected, but are still in the forefront of that group in the first place.
11:37:07 AM Nov 12th 2013
The thing is, it shouldn't have deviated. That's Trope Decay, and the definition is still a minor character who has become popular. The definition hasn't changed, even if people have been misusing it.
05:06:57 PM Nov 12th 2013
edited by
I should clarify, I was more referring to its use in the Pokémon franchise itself rather then the term at large as there seems to be a difference in how it's handled for the most part (though there are examples like Luigi). For instance, no one would dare question examples like Link not qualifying as Ensemble Darkhorses as he's definitely the main character and hell, I've seen those examples stripped out as soon as possible on other pages, but Pokemon don't seem to be subject to that. Examples like the aforementioned Charizard, Lugia and Zekrom have been left alone for quite some time (hell, Charizard and Lugia were considered Darkhorses since I first found the site) despite being the mascots of their respective generations. So the site hasn't really drawn that line between mascots and regular Pokemon, or at least for a certain reason they weren't considering mascot Pokemon to be main characters in the same sense as they would Link. Regardless, there's a reason they weren't bothered and that may have to be considered.

Having said that, I do agree that examples like Hilbert may not count as they're definitely main characters to begin with and there's no muddling of the line there.
07:44:27 PM Nov 12th 2013
edited by
Any main playable like Hilbert shouldn't count. Same with any Starter or Legendary.

Any main Mascot(like Lucario) shouldn't count either. Anybody else is up in the air.
12:49:09 PM Nov 14th 2013
For all intents, Charizard should have never been considered an Ensemble Darkhorse in the first place. If anything, it's a Breakout Character ("starting as one of three starters and now have reached the point where it got two Megaforms.") Same with Mewtwo and Lucario.

And I agree with Irene's criteria.
11:58:44 AM Nov 16th 2013
Could someone help me with the ED trimming on Pokémon? I removed the starters and box legendaries (though some of those got readded without discussion), and I'm not sure if others should go as well.
06:55:56 AM Nov 4th 2013
edited by
Yeah is it ok to start trimming down these examples. Stuff like Mega Evolution in Base Breaker could easily be summed up in one simple bullet point. All the knee jerk reaction entries are ridiculous.
04:14:53 PM Nov 4th 2013
Seconding this. I get that it's the YMMV page but a lot of the complaints are very redundant or are even just the typical reactions to every new Pokémon game.
04:35:32 PM Oct 26th 2013
Is it normal for a Pokemon page to have so much complaining?
01:50:04 PM Dec 28th 2013

You get a lot of complaining and a lot of complaining about complaining and even some complaining about complaining about complaining.

It's one of the worst things about YMMV.
04:42:32 PM Oct 14th 2013
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Okay, I'm getting tired of people removing my comments for no reason. This site is being heavily biased against any kind of criticism, and it really annoys me.

Pokemon may have been made in Japan, but it's not for an exclusive Japanese audience; it's made for an international audience, and it's been drawing ideas from other mythologies and has made effort to be multicultural in-universe. People have the right to criticize a design and should not be labeled under Fan Dumb because of it. Now as for the Tsukumogami argument being used to defend inanimate object Pokemon, what is being ignored is that Tsukumogami are objects that receive spirits and come alive, not simply inanimate objects that just come to life for no reason. Yes, inanimate object Pokemon have been around since Generation 1, but what people seem to forget is some inanimate object are based on concepts that justify why they're designed like that, while others do not(hence why there's criticism). We can pardon Honedge because possessed swords have been in mythology before, and we don't know yet what concept Klefki is based on, but we already have some Pokemon that are already based on the Tsukumogami, so using the Tsukumogami argument to discredit any negative opinion against an inanimate object Pokemon just looks like a flimsy excuse to defend lazy designs.
05:02:31 PM Oct 14th 2013
edited by
Honestly, all of the third bullet there should go. It's just discussion in the main page and justifying edits. A bullet point should never begin with "However."

Though honestly the whole "tsukumogami" argument seems a bit pointless when one could just as easily say "poltergeist" (Rotom in particular is more based on poltergeist than tsukumogami for sure). It's not like objects being possessed is a particularly Japanese phenomenon.
05:25:37 PM Oct 14th 2013
edited by
If the third bullet should go, then so should the second bullet; the whole article is heavily biased against any form of criticism towards the game or even the Pokemon designs. Both sides should at least have a voice in the matter; that's why it was in the Broken Base section.

Edit: Oh wait, I saw that you removed both third bullets there.
01:48:14 PM Dec 28th 2013
Klefki is based on superstitions of household trickster fairies that steal easily lost and valuable items, such as keys. Gamefreak took the "mischievous fairy that steals keys" idea and ran with it by making Klefki a key ring that hoards the stolen keys. I especially like how instead of getting a generic smile, it has a keyhole for a mouth.

Call it what you want, but it's hardly lazy.
08:24:28 AM Oct 12th 2013
"** When Gardevoir Mega Evolves, it gains a Fairytale Wedding Dress. Remember how they are said to love their Trainer with Undying Loyalty? And it has a wedding dress now? It loves you so much that it wants to be your wife! That is both sweet and disturbing at the same time."

This keeps getting pulled for no reason. Is it possible that this is too nattery? It does seem this page is overabundant with a lot of stuff. While the edit war is now done with, it may be best to discuss this first.
08:42:50 AM Sep 7th 2013
On the subject of "Princess Absol" - while it may not be huge, the jokes are definitely out there. I invite anyone to simply google "Princess Absol" and look down the first page or two of results.
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