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Epicocity Since: Sep, 2016
Jan 4th 2020 at 12:57:28 PM •••

I think it needs to be said for future edits that any coming episode of Pocket Monsters 2019 should not have an entry to They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot just because they didn't engage in heavy continuity with previous series.

It's become obvious now that PM 2019 is doing its own thing and, more or less, ignoring past continuity. Nothing in the plot setup of the series suggests heavy callbacks and shouldn't be treated as a missed opportunity, because it's not really there to begin with and isn't suggested.

Epicocity Since: Sep, 2016
Jul 21st 2019 at 11:25:53 AM •••

Recently, troper Ms CC 93 seems to be making a slew of edits regarding Iris. In and of itself, this isn't an issue, except that they seem to be focused on a very small subset of the fandom and not the fandom at large, while applying tropes that don't fit (Draco in Leather Pants for instance) for what they're trying to say (most of fandom does not demonize Iris nor glorify Burgundy or Georgia to the point of heightening Iris' negative traits or emphasizing the latters' positive).

Further, they seem to be using the edit function to attack other tropers for editing their entries to reflect more accurately.

I realize this is a YMMV page, but it is meant to represent the fandom at large, and not a specific subset, and I'd like to think we can address this issue before it gets out of hand.

Hide / Show Replies
MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
Jul 21st 2019 at 11:41:52 AM •••

No, I was upset because he called me whiny. I don’t care about anyone’s opinion of any character of the shoe I even went through the history of this page & I see that other tropers have had had this same issue in the past as well regarding edits of characters.

I will admit that I felt I violated the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement For this page, but the Ron the Death Eater one should stay because I even see fanfics, videos, and posts on You Tube/Tumblr supporting the opinion

Edited by MsCC93
Viroro-kun Since: Feb, 2016
Jul 21st 2019 at 5:10:10 PM •••

As I assume you were referring to me here, I'd like to chime in and point out your behavior so far has been somewhat inappropriate. First of all, you did act impolitely when you dismissed my and Epicocity's corrections as 'Iris haters' (which I at least am not, I'm neutral at worst on Iris), alongside telling Epicocity to 'chill' just for correcting you and calling us Orwellian Editors.

You're also bringing up past incidents right now (which dealt with people who, for the most part, clearly were trying to pass their own opinions as the voice of the majority when no one shared it), which makes you sound rather aggressive. And that's without pointing out that doing 'non-edits' just to reply to an at best indirect comment (if Happy Man even intended it to be one, they said 'sound less whiny') aren't really good form here on TV Tropes. All this combination of factors makes you come off more poorly than you probably intend to, and while I'd assume it's unintentional, I feel it was worth pointing out.

On more pressing matters, however, keeping a Ron the Death Eater entry here is redundant when a Ron The Death Eater page for Pokémon specifically exists, here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/RonTheDeathEater/Pokemon . If you really want to keep it, it should at least be deleted from the YMMV page and moved there.

I'd also think you should check if something is truly as much of a majority as you think. There was a previous attempt by Epicocity himself to submit a trope which was deleted by another troper on the grounds that not many people thought it was true, so the 'even if you disagree it should be there' reasoning isn't as strong as you probably think it is. And while Iris is probably the most disliked Pokégirl, people tend to just claim she's insufferable rather than demonizing her more often than not.

Edited by Viroro-kun
MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
Jul 21st 2019 at 5:18:33 PM •••

I wasn’t taking about any of you regarding the RTDE. I was talking about the Troper Happy Man who edited my entry & accused me of being whiny. I could care less about you guys now because I felt my entry of DILP was flame baity anyway. IM GLAD it was deleted because I’m not trying to start any fights (mind you I’m typing from my phone so you will see typos).

PS : I only called y’all an Orwiellien Ediot or whatever because of the past edits, not towards me because I felt that you deleting the DILP was justified. I mean I do noticed that nobody can even have an opinion on this YMMV page without anyone getting offended (hence the commented out ROCEJ edit you see on top of the edit page) & it just tells me that fans see Pokémon as Serious Business (I’m not even talking about you now I’m speaking in general =/).

Y’all also say Iris isn’t demonized but you can see fan fics that exaggerate her problematic flaws & that proves me right.

Edited by MsCC93
Epicocity Since: Sep, 2016
Jul 26th 2019 at 12:11:56 PM •••

In terms of the edits we make to the page, it's to reflect the wider fandom. A lot of the things we delete are those we do so in order to make sure we're displaying that and not just a single troper's opinion. It can be hard to decide, but we're part of forums and various places filled with fans. If we don't see a sentiment echoed at large, it means it's not widespread enough to belong on the page. Nothing to do with our thoughts towards a specific character or anything of the like.

Also, fanfics should rarely, if ever, be used to justify something like exaggerated flaws, because you'll always find those in shipping fanfics, particularly. You'll see Misty turn to raging demon, Serena as a Clingy Jealous Girl Taken Up To Eleven, and a number of other things. That doesn't reflect actual fan consensus.

MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
Jan 2nd 2020 at 7:04:52 AM •••

I retured here because I feel guilty over how I handled things here.

To me, this subpage of the anime (and other subpages) would work better if negative posts about any of Ash's traveling companions were to be banned to prevent edit and flame wars.

Ash's traveling companions will always be a very delicate subject in the fanbase, and by not adding any posts that throw jabs at said companions or any of their fans/haters, this page will function properly and wouldn't be at risk of getting locked.

MysteriousZorua1994 Since: Jan, 2013
Sep 1st 2019 at 3:44:45 AM •••

They've just announced an announcement for a potential reboot for September 29, and reaction has been intensely negative on the Bulbagarden forums (as in potential jumping the shark negativity). I would suggest locking the page again because of this constant flame wars.

The honorable Prince of the Sea: Manaphy Hide / Show Replies
MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
Sep 1st 2019 at 4:08:40 AM •••

You can go on the locked pages thread to request the lock, not here.

Edited by MsCC93
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
Sep 15th 2019 at 11:11:44 PM •••

At this point, there's nothing to trope about even if they don't like it. And with Ash finally winning the League, there's chance this will die down.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught
Viroro-kun Since: Feb, 2016
Feb 18th 2019 at 11:19:22 AM •••

Searching through the edit history, I've noticed that the troper Gentilernandez just tried to add again the very same trope they tried to add back in October 2018 after it was already deleted once, using the exact same text, to relay information that was already given on other sides of the YMMV page. I'd like to bring attention to this fact in case such an occurrence were to happen for a third time.

Epicocity Since: Sep, 2016
Dec 5th 2018 at 3:12:19 PM •••

There seems to be a new user for the page that insists on editing Serena in a more negative light, which wouldn't be a problem, except that:

  • 1) Most of his posts aren't supported by canon (Serena's Unintentionally Unsympathetic and her Character Development being null and void by the kiss, along with being a Memetic Loser in regards to Ash).
  • 2) I've not seen any of these opinions shared by the fanbase until this moment, which makes a lot of it seem like the troper's opinion (certainly not anything listed above).

Really don't want to start an edit war over this, so I was hoping it could be handled.

PDL Since: Jul, 2010
Aug 23rd 2018 at 7:56:13 AM •••

So there seems to be an edit war over Alain's role in the anime... Again.

Which would be correct? Was he planned to defeat Ash all along or just be his final rival?

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Viroro-kun Since: Feb, 2016
Aug 23rd 2018 at 9:12:41 AM •••

Just final opponent, to my knowledge. No word on who was meant to win the Kalos League was ever given, beyond theories.

Epicocity Since: Sep, 2016
Aug 23rd 2018 at 9:13:54 AM •••

Just be his final rival.

The interview with Yajima said nothing about him defeating Ash; just that he was going to be made a part of the main series and Ash's final battle from the beginning.

Gentilernandez Since: Aug, 2018
Aug 23rd 2018 at 11:41:46 AM •••

But where is that interview? I can not find it. It could be that interview or claim was never translated to begin with?

Epicocity Since: Sep, 2016
Aug 23rd 2018 at 7:40:18 PM •••

That interview is right [[here https://forums.serebii.net/threads/pokA9mon-the-series-xy-pokA9mon-the-series-xy-z.654751/page-5#post-18312722]], capable of being found with a simple search. It doesn't explicitly say that he was meant to be his final opponent, but rather that he was always meant to be integrated in the main series. Either way, that does not mean that he was always meant to defeat Ash. Plans change, after all.

Epicocity Since: Sep, 2016
May 19th 2018 at 5:37:56 PM •••

Like Hilarious in Hindsight, I feel like Broken Base is becoming huge. Should it have its own page or remain here?

Epicocity Since: Sep, 2016
May 14th 2018 at 9:32:05 AM •••

Does this really apply? By that, I mean, is an evolution considered a Deus ex Machina? And usually when more powerful characters interrupt, they've been established in an episode already. I really can't think of a single instance wherein the villains are actually given this treatment, and Gym Leaders don't pose an actual threat to the villain.

Planning to remove unless a case is made for keeping it.

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Viroro-kun Since: Feb, 2016
May 14th 2018 at 1:07:42 PM •••

In my personal opinion, while evolutions or new moves *can* feel like a Deus ex Machina instance, Only the Author Can Save Them Now refers to incredibly specific instances where there's literally nothing but deus ex machina that can save the characters.

Also, aside from that, this whole thing doesn't name examples, which goes against the mantra that Examples Are Not General. I'd be in favor of excising it.

Psi001 Since: Oct, 2010
May 16th 2018 at 4:35:16 AM •••

I think it often stems from anime conventions, ie. getting power just from emotion and "really really wanting it". From one perspective, it's toughing out and getting inner strength. From another, it's the plot giving you a power boost out of nowhere because it will break if you lose. The Japanese Transformers series have a similar stipulation which English dubs have trouble bearing logic onto.

The times a bad guy puts up a good fight and Ash still wins simply because he fought that little bit better or smarter aren't common at least. Usually they just trade Curbstomp Battles depending on whose around or who gets what power boost, with the more strategic fights saved for official battles. Almost any time Team Rocket fought competently in Hoenn or Sinnoh for example, you knew it was just to set up a new character or power up emerging, and the twerps were just gonna stand there fucked until that in question tipped the scales again, while Bewear in Alola is pretty much an in-universe justified case of this.

Edited by Psi001
Epicocity Since: Sep, 2016
May 16th 2018 at 5:37:55 AM •••

Except that's not an example of this trope.

Team Rocket fighting competently does not suddenly make it a case of Only the Author Can Save Them Now. That only happens when there is nothing but a Deus ex Machina that can save them. Given that Team Rocket are shown to be a bunch of idiots often, it's in character for them to screw up, just as it's part of the show's MO for Ash and company to use Team Rocket as a chance to master new moves. I've never seen a situation so hopeless from Team Rocket or any other villain where it was written as hopeless and needed a Deus ex Machina. Remember, just because they use one, doesn't make it this trope, and evolution and new moves may not even be considered that given it's part of the world mechanics and something known to happen (now if, say, Lycanroc were to suddenly evolve, it'd be a different story).

And also, Bewear isn't justified in-universe given we have legitimately no explanation for how or why it does these things. Being Played for Laughs doesn't automatically excuse its usage, but that has no play on this trope either.

Epicocity Since: Sep, 2016
May 6th 2018 at 9:05:30 AM •••

Going through the page, it seems the Hilarious in Hindsight is really long. Would it, maybe, be more prudent to create a whole separate page for it?

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Psi001 Since: Oct, 2010
May 16th 2018 at 4:36:50 AM •••

Perhaps. It is a long runner after with plenty Early or Later Installment Weirdness. Loads of ironic context is bound to happen.

Epicocity Since: Sep, 2016
Apr 29th 2018 at 10:44:56 AM •••

For this one, I'm not entirely sure if it's just the troper's opinion, and especially since I've never really seen anyone complain about Cresselia not being used much. Just wondering if it's worth keeping on the page:

  • Compared to how much mileage the anime has gotten out of Darkrai over the years, Cresselia received the short end of the stick. She only gets one episode, and even then she doesn't get to appear until the second half due to the first half being dominated by Team Rocket. And then Team Rocket comes back to hijack the plot again, and she spends the majority of her screentime as a Distressed Damsel who doesn't even aid in her own escape. The only thing she actually gets to do is confront Darkrai at the end of the episode, and the sequence takes fewer than thirty seconds. This would be weak representation for any Pokémon in the series, but giving this treatment to a legendary, and especially one that never gets a movie, not even appearing in the one starring Darkrai...

PDL Since: Jul, 2010
Apr 13th 2018 at 1:20:10 PM •••

There seems to be a bit of an edit war regarding Ash's status as a Designated Monkey.

Edited by PDL Hide / Show Replies
Epicocity Since: Sep, 2016
Mar 28th 2018 at 10:49:54 PM •••

I figure it's better to discuss this, if we can:

  • Ass Pull: If you've watched the show and played the games, there's a fair chance you've seen something in the show that doesn't match the games, and especially where the battles are concerned. Bulbapedia has a list.

Is this really something we can consider an asspull? By the choices of the narrative that has run for 20 plus years, doing something different from the games can't really be considered that. I mean, the games can't exactly do what the anime can, and the anime can't exactly go by a stats system. Just wondering if we should rework it or eliminate it altogether.

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PDL Since: Jul, 2010
Apr 13th 2018 at 1:19:01 PM •••

That's a bit too broad for an example, especially mentioning that Bulbapedia has a list at the end.

Viroro-kun Since: Feb, 2016
Nov 28th 2017 at 11:10:38 AM •••

So, about this recent entry:

  • Fans have gotten sick of "The Ash Show" when it comes to story arcs. Melotetta following Ash, Ash-Greninja, and aura powers in an attempt to make Ash seem special just because of these gimmicks. Fans believe these gimmicks are what further character development; however, other fans are quick to point out that Ash didn't earn any of these or they were never explored. It has come to a breaking point in Sun and Moon when Ash is charged with Cosmog rather than Lillie, leading to debates on whether Ash "stole" Lillie's spotlight.

This is written in a quite nitpicky way, not to mention it ignores that aside from the mentioned arcs in XY proper it was Bonnie that had the more plot-relevant bond with Squishy (which proved more important on the long run than Ash-Greninja), and how in DP Dawn and Brock were chosens of the lake guardians much like Ash, meaning between the complained things there we also had cases of arcs not being about Ash, not to mention Aura is hardly unique to him and has only been 'special' to Ash for about a movie and two episodes of DP, to the point his Aura connection played no role in XY. The Cosmog point is the only complaint that I feel is particularly valid (and even then, Lillie seems to still be the focus of this arc much more than Ash is). Do you feel this should be reworked?

Viroro-kun Since: Feb, 2016
Nov 24th 2017 at 1:39:48 PM •••

I think this entry under Replacement Scrappy needs to be reworked:

  • Every single one of Ash's rivals after Gary, because they steal Ash's chances of winning and (compared to Gary) are One-Arc Wonders with little Character Development other than the typical "Worthy Opponent" buildup. Alain seems to be getting it the worst, because Ash losing to him is believed to have driven the Status Quo Is God of him not being a League winner beyond Yank the Dog's Chain/Diabolus ex Machina levels.

The main rivals after Gary were Paul (which tends to be well-liked as a rival more than any others), Trip (the purest Replacement Scrappy), Sawyer (which is polarizing but has his fans) and Alain (which I don't count as a main rival honestly, but everyone else does). Among them, Paul is considered the best rival because he was much more present throughout the region than Gary ever was by most fans and Sawyer had explicit character development throughout XY, which means only Trip and maybe Alain qualify for this trope. It seems that the entry was written by the perspective of an OS fan that didn't watch the following series, if I'm allowed to say.

Cilanfangirl Since: Mar, 2015
Oct 23rd 2017 at 2:49:36 PM •••

Should we move Burgundy from the Ensemble Dark Horse section on the Pokemon page to the Base-Breaking Character section on this YMMV page? Although she is classified as one, she is ranked number 7 on a list of Worst Pokemon Characters on the Top Tens website. Reasons for this are she seems to be disliked for her obnoxious attitude towards Ash and his friends, told Ash to get rid of his Pokemon and she virtually didn't win a single battle. Or is it more of character bashing?

Edited by Cilanfangirl Hide / Show Replies
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
Oct 23rd 2017 at 2:52:50 PM •••

I'd have a herd time calling her a Base-Breaking Character since those are reasons we are supposed to hate her, a distinction few popularity polls make.

Cilanfangirl Since: Mar, 2015
Oct 30th 2017 at 6:05:40 PM •••

So should we keep her in Ensemble Dark Horse? I know everyone has a different opinion on a particular character, but I often can't tell if a certain character is considered to be an Ensemble Dark Horse, a Base-Breaking Character, or The Scrappy.

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
Dec 7th 2016 at 11:10:10 AM •••

Cut this from Franchise Original Sin:

  • The team Ash built in the XY series is scrutinized for having 3 flying types, and 3 have a shared weakness to ice types. Common weaknesses and typings actually exist in previous series note , but the real issue is that back then the type chart is only relevant in the anime when the plot actually calls for it.

When did "type chart is only relevant in the anime when the plot actually calls for it" stop being in effect? No small part of the Kalos League controversy is that it is still in effect. Also, when did the shared typing and weaknesses actually come up in-story to hamper Ash? The entry seems like just a giant nitpick over things that never actually came up.

Any objections to cutting?

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Dr.XXX Since: Aug, 2014
Dec 7th 2016 at 11:40:22 AM •••

The type chart is pretty much on again off again at all times. Sometimes it's in effect. Sometimes it's not. Take a shot for all the times shadow ball hit a normal type and actually harmed it. No objections for cutting this entry from me.

ExSlacker Since: Sep, 2015
Dec 7th 2016 at 4:58:06 PM •••

My issue is that whether the type chart "exists" then (OS-BW) or now (XY) then people shouldn't be complaining about Ash's team having shared typings and weaknesses.

Edited by ExSlacker
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
Dec 7th 2016 at 5:07:27 PM •••

If they shouldn't be complaining, then it's not this trope.

Franchise Original Sin is not about complaining about things that existed un-critiqued in prior works, but for when there was a tangible reason why it wasn't viewed as a problem then. If the reason that the typing issue wasn't an issue before is still in effect, it is not this trope.

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
Nov 30th 2016 at 10:48:00 AM •••

This was removed since they were under the impression Eight Deadly Words requires citation or In-Universe examples (that only applies to the examples page).

Before adding back, does the fact that this wiki (the "audience" in question) follows it as much as we do and was so disappointed and outraged by a certain event (I believe the entry was added in response to that) that the page had locked for months show that we care even if we aren't happy with some of its outcomes?

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
Sep 15th 2016 at 3:35:18 PM •••

In light of recent controversies getting this page locked, and staying locked for the foreseeable future, here it the thread to get additions/edits approved.

Lets take our dissuasions there, where they can do the most good.

anoni Since: Nov, 2010
Sep 13th 2016 at 7:22:29 PM •••

Is it safe to unlock the page now?

I was asking because I kinda wanted to put a Tainted by the Preview example or something like Dork Age due to the leak of the Alola arc.

http://www.serebii.net/news/2016/12-September-2016.shtml

Specifically the artstyle seemly taking a nosedive in quality. The premise of Ash going to school, and what seems to be blatantly copying Yokai Watch to draw fans of it in.

Maybe someone else can who can word it better?

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Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
Sep 13th 2016 at 7:50:36 PM •••

I say it gives more reason to keep it locked since there is a new thing to complain about. We should at least wait until XY is done to see if it does anything to absolve the current complaining.

Still, I agree Tainted by the Preview is a viable response (though I think moving away from the League formula that has always disappointed might be good). Add as soon as unlocked.

If you really want to add, try flagging a mod, asking politely, and giving them something to just paste in so it's not a bother. I'd recommend hammering out a draft of what you want added here to make sure it passes muster.

anoni Since: Nov, 2010
Sep 13th 2016 at 8:23:31 PM •••

how do I flag a mod?

I haven't done it before or know who to ask

EDIT: Figured it out.

Edited by anoni
PDL Since: Jul, 2010
Sep 15th 2016 at 1:35:31 PM •••

After the reveal of the Pokemon Sun and Moon anime saga... I think it would be best if the page remains locked due to people's reaction to the art style (I personally don't think its too bad, but others disagree).

Edited by PDL
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
Sep 15th 2016 at 1:52:43 PM •••

Agreed. Now we really need a Tainted by the Preview entry.

What is the policy for additions to locked pages. Do we post proposed additions here? Should there be a dedicated thread/forum for that?

Now that the page looks to be locked for the foreseeable future, but plenty of new things to talk about, this page now needs a way to get updates approved.

Awhile ago, this page was locked and got a thread for discussing clean-up and getting edits approved. How can we get another one of those.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
Sep 15th 2016 at 1:55:53 PM •••

I'm surprised you don't know, you've been around for a while. There's a thread for it on the FAQ board.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
erazor0707 The Unknown Unknown Since: Dec, 2014
The Unknown Unknown
Sep 14th 2016 at 1:55:37 PM •••

I'm starting to think we need to lock the anime DMoS. Half of the Kalos (maybe more than half) entry is about the you-know-what incident.

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh. Hide / Show Replies
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
Sep 14th 2016 at 2:03:41 PM •••

Locking is excessive, but cutting some of the examples (halve of which are redundant) looks good.

Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor Since: Aug, 2014
The Mad Doctor
Sep 8th 2016 at 12:53:58 PM •••

Can we despoiler the It Was His Sled entry? If it was an example of the trope, then no one would be spoiled.

Hide / Show Replies
TimG5 Since: Jun, 2015
Sep 12th 2016 at 1:14:24 PM •••

It Was His Sled entries always get spoilered out in an attempt to respect anyone who still hasn't heard about it. The trope is meant to let you know a big plot event is widely known but still give you the chance to find out for yourself. Not become a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy.

Edited by TimG5
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
Sep 12th 2016 at 1:16:57 PM •••

But It Was His Sled, by definition, is something so well-known that it isn't a spoiler, even to people who aren't viewers of the work.

Which honestly leads me to assume this isn't the case.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
TimG5 Since: Jun, 2015
Sep 12th 2016 at 1:56:47 PM •••

It IS a case of this of this trope. Tons of people who don't watch the anime proper and are just into Pokemon or even just Nintendo have heard about this so it's definitely an example. What I am saying is that I've seen tons of It Was His Sled entries spoilered out on this site despite the definition simply out of respect for that one guy out of ten thousand who still doesn't know would've preferred to find out himself. I doubt it's a requirement that literally every person must know about it. Just a good majority. We either leave this one as it is or should go despoiler every entry on the site. I say just leave it.

Edited by TimG5
shonengirl Since: Oct, 2014
Blazer Since: Mar, 2012
Aug 31st 2016 at 6:00:48 PM •••

If I had to hazard a guess, I would say it'll be awhile before it gets unlocked, just to make sure that the majority of the people has the rage of that episode out of their system.

Dr.XXX Since: Aug, 2014
Sep 1st 2016 at 8:18:19 AM •••

I'd say around SM anime release. People are still really salty.

SpinAttaxx It doesn't come from Zelda. Since: Jun, 2013
It doesn't come from Zelda.
Aug 28th 2016 at 9:53:13 AM •••

So since TV Tokyo privated the post-League next episode preview, perhaps someone could replace the YouTube link in the Internet Backdraft entry with a snapshot of the vid shortly before then and update the text from "50,000 dislikes" to "60,000"?

EDIT: Apparently a lot of TV Tokyo's uploads, even the ones not related to Pokémon, are getting downvoted a lot. If they dun goofed hard enough for that to happen, is it worth mentioning?

Edited by SpinAttaxx Um... er... wait one moment, 'll be back in a sec... Hide / Show Replies
Dr.XXX Since: Aug, 2014
Aug 29th 2016 at 4:47:10 PM •••

I'd say so. That deserves to be an example.

Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor Since: Aug, 2014
The Mad Doctor
Aug 25th 2016 at 5:16:24 PM •••

Should we folder this page off? It is long.

TheFarmboy When you see the Legionaries after you. Since: Jan, 2013
When you see the Legionaries after you.
Aug 22nd 2016 at 4:24:21 PM •••

*Unfortunate Implications: The message when Ash lost the Pokemon League first time was "Losing is not the end, you can always try again better next time". This would have been a great aesop, if it wasn't for the fact that this is being applied in a show where Failure Is the Only Option no thanks to the writers of the show having the idea that if Ash wins even once, the show's over. Not surprisingly, after the Kalos finals many fans start saying a certain quote: "You will always fail no matter how hard you try." One commenter even stated this:

An Unfortunate Implications example needs a citation. At least link where the quote came from. Or at least have this entry moved under "Family-Unfriendly Aesop"/

Edited by TheFarmboy "The Caesar has marked you for death, and the Legion obeys! Ready yourself for battle!" Hide / Show Replies
Dr.XXX Since: Aug, 2014
Aug 23rd 2016 at 6:34:51 AM •••

An Unfortunate Implications example would need to cite multiple sites or multiple people in one link. This is just one person's thinking.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
Aug 23rd 2016 at 6:41:27 AM •••

No, it just needs one reputable citation.

Of which a random person (probably the guy who added it quoting himself) is not.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
latios2 Since: Apr, 2012
Aug 22nd 2016 at 1:11:24 AM •••

So since the hate over the Kalos League finale is being cleaned up can I ask these two entries be looked at:

  • Not to mention, the reason that such an implosion would occur in the first place was that the fans aren't even asking for Ash to suddenly become an Invincible Hero. They just want him to win at least ONE video game-based league!!! This had many fans blaming the writers for thinking that the moment Ash wins a league, he would suddenly retire and the show would end despite him winning the Orange League and the Battle Frontier proving otherwise.

  • What makes the loss to Alain far far worse than all the other defeats was that not only was the young man totally disinterested in the entire League, save for Ash's presence, but he's working with a terrorist/criminal organisation. Fans are already discounting his victory and calling for him to be disqualified. The aftermath means he'll be stripped of his titles by the authorities if he does not honorably submit them to Ash. Even if there's a re-match, Alain has made a joke of the entire competition. There's NOTHING more hollow than Ash winning by default or technicality!

I'm not the only one who feels they were added out of spite for the Kalos League right? If they aren't I'm sorry for bringing this up.

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Blazer Since: Mar, 2012
Aug 22nd 2016 at 10:06:15 AM •••

No, I feel like they were added out of spite. There might be some good points in there, but it needs to be cleaned up.

Blazer Since: Mar, 2012
Aug 20th 2016 at 6:20:16 PM •••

Can we put a moratorium on the Kalos League thing for now? Especially people saying that the series is ruined forever. It seems that it might be flipping back around with the start of the Team Flare arc, so the anger bit might be something of a momentary thing.

In other words, can we wait so it isn't another Captain HYDRA thing where the YMMV page gets locked down?

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erazor0707 The Unknown Unknown Since: Dec, 2014
The Unknown Unknown
Jun 3rd 2016 at 10:56:26 AM •••

Should we put folders on the page? It's long enough.

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
erazor0707 The Unknown Unknown Since: Dec, 2014
The Unknown Unknown
Sep 3rd 2015 at 9:28:00 AM •••

I've seen and heard many people, especially older fans, who want Ash to be replaced. Of course, not everyone wants this. Should this be added to the YMMV page in some form (with more detail)?

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
CharlestonMan Since: Mar, 2013
May 25th 2015 at 11:48:46 AM •••

OK, who the Hell was adding all the entries about how BW/Unova was most definitely loathed by everyone and indisputably the worst arc and worst era of the anime EVAH, and how XY is so much better received and considered one the best arcs and eras EVAH by comparison, and how characters like Iris was the Scrappy to everyone and how Ash's lack of competence as a trainer was a deal breaker for everyone, etc.?

Because this is very, very blatant bias. The issues are part of a Broken Base, and just because a large part of this HUGE fandom hates everything about BW and loves XY doesn't mean it's universal. There are many who feel the opposite, and there are those who think they're both good or both bad. You cannot write entries in such absolutes unless you are absolutely sure it's a near unanimous thing, and in this case, it's not. You only think it is because you don't venture outside your bubble.

(It must be noted that ratings were actually good and steady for BW in Japan up until after the Unova League, so the League being disappointing among fans and casual viewers alike is the ONLY thing that one can say for certainty here.)

Edited by CharlestonMan Hide / Show Replies
GordyTepig Since: Aug, 2011
Aug 18th 2015 at 3:25:52 PM •••

When you have enough fans of a certain mentality on a page, they can essentially control how it.

A minor example would be how you can find some obscure-ass show here that no one has ever heard about, then write whatever YMMV you want. Here, you have enough XY fans to outweigh others and tailor the page to however they want.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011
Jul 28th 2015 at 9:53:09 PM •••

This entry

  • During the fight with Valerie, Hawlucha is able to break Trick Room by hitting it with X-scissor. It's never hinted at beforehand and the idea that you can stop a Reality Warping effect by what is effectively punching it hard enough is silly.

Was a Justifying Edit magnet. Talk it out here before re-adding.

Karxrida The Unknown Since: May, 2012
The Unknown
Jul 24th 2015 at 5:07:31 PM •••

Link to clean-up thread.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011
Jul 15th 2013 at 11:30:02 AM •••

This entry was deleted before due to it referencing a very small fetish niche. If it should stay, come here and give a good argument for it.

  • On a lesser note, Georgia's become incredibly popular with a certain Periphery Demographic, mostly in part due to a fanfic of her becoming moderately popular.

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Karxrida Since: May, 2012
Jul 24th 2015 at 5:07:17 PM •••

Ignore.

Edited by Karxrida If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
DonaldthePotholer Since: Dec, 2009
Jan 2nd 2014 at 11:50:57 PM •••

Modified this Misblamed entry:

A sadly hefty amount of fans unfamiliar with how animated television show production actually works think that the pulling of the "Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma" two-parter due to the 2011 earthquake and tsunami caused the later Seasonal Rot of Best Wishes because an entire arc with Team Plasma was scrapped as a result, when in fact no such arc ever existed. Up to the Nimbasa City episodes were already well into production when the disaster struck, and everything up to Iccirus City was written as-is by that point as well. In reality, the Seasonal Rot that affected Best Wishes was due to the Black 2 and White 2 games happening rather than a special third edition of Black and White like the writers initially anticipated. No major plans were changed due to the earthquake and tsunami other than two episodes getting pulled from the air.

The airing of a single-focused villain arc was not the writers' M.O. with either Magma and Aqua or Galactic; those arcs utilized the Half-Arc Season of one- or two-part episodes moving the plot with about a twenty-episode between such episodes.

The fact that the in-production episodes had nothing to do with Plasma could mean nothing more than Plasma not being in the plot up to Nimbasa City; which is an argument that, given that Team Rocket being a "Second Line, Some Waiting" actually made their plots more menacing, has some merit.

As for then to Iccirus, episodes in the script stage could be retooled if need warranted, remember that one episode then in post had to be rescheduled; Team Rocket's increased competence making such retooling easier. And, from what I recall of the game's plot, any Plasma-related episodes would merely be skirmishes; the real hook to the Plasma plot occurred just after Iccirus.

The alternative that this entry implies leads to a conclusion that would be production-suicide, as my edit mentions: Showing Plasma in only a two-parter would have been met with utter fan rage. I strongly doubt that the writers were going to give the game's villains only a single two-parter.

Edited by 68.1.57.131 Ketchum's corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced tactic is indistinguishable from blind luck. Hide / Show Replies
CharlestonMan Since: Mar, 2013
May 25th 2015 at 11:42:10 AM •••

This is correct. There likely was a Plasma arc planned, perhaps one episode scripted near the Black Hero's Ruin and then more near Iccirus that hadn't even entered pre-production yet by the time of the earthquake and tsunami. The point in the end is that said disaster was NOT responsible for that Plasma arc getting axed and Episode N happening instead, that was the new games' fault. If those episodes had aired, then the kind of stuff Team Plasma was doing in it would still just end up an Aborted Arc and replaced with Colress and his scientific shenanigans anyway.

Karxrida The Unknown Since: May, 2012
The Unknown
Oct 2nd 2014 at 6:08:47 PM •••

I'm going to nuke Base Breaker when I get a chance because it's one of the tropes listed with "No Examples Please". Just a heads up.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with? Hide / Show Replies
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Oct 2nd 2014 at 6:11:19 PM •••

It means no examples on the trope's page. On individual YMMV work pages is fine, actually.

Per the mods' repellant efforts to avoid all responsibility, I regret to announce this is the end of my time on TVT. I'm going now. Goodbye.
Karxrida Since: May, 2012
Oct 2nd 2014 at 6:22:44 PM •••

Thank god I'm on a phone and can't edit. You sure? A mod told me it meant no examples anywhere, including YMMV.

Edited by 104.34.219.208 If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
Oct 3rd 2014 at 1:38:56 AM •••

It's been a recurring issue that such "no examples please" disclaimers don't refer precisely to wicks or examples or both.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Karxrida Since: May, 2012
Oct 3rd 2014 at 1:27:18 PM •••

Fighteer flat-out stated no examples anywhere' on a very recent Ask The Tropers discussion (search my name with CTRL+F on the page to find it, it's the one where I ask for a page listing all Tropes with No Examples Please). I'm going to transplant Base Breaker examples to Broken Base and nuke the rest when I get a chance (fuck phones), unless someone beats me to it.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
Jun 20th 2014 at 6:22:42 AM •••

So, looking at the page, it sounds like Pokémon Speak is hated by most older fans, and almost all fans of the Pokemon games. I... haven't really heard either of these things at all. I've been playing the games since G1, and I've never heard of any other game fans having an issue with Pokémon Speak.

It sounds like there's a Vocal Minority mentioning it, as I'm seeing all most all additions are by one troper.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them. Hide / Show Replies
PDL Since: Jul, 2010
Jul 9th 2014 at 12:09:01 PM •••

I've also got the impression that it's just one troper making it sound like its a common complaint (which I've heard of nowhere else either).

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
Jul 9th 2014 at 12:09:30 PM •••

Maybe take it up with Ask the Tropers?

The Protomen enhanced my life.
SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
Jul 10th 2014 at 12:58:59 AM •••

Unless he's violating rules in some way, I'm afraid hands will be bound in ATT - the YMMV pages are there to list opinions.

Also, no opinion is ever solitary.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
Jul 10th 2014 at 6:31:35 AM •••

It still strikes me as "factually incorrect" as many such entries make sweeping generalizations claiming that most fans hate it, etc. Claiming "there are those who dislike x" is different from claiming "most fans dislike x."

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)
Jul 10th 2014 at 6:34:53 AM •••

Aye, that part can be removed. It's a Weasel Words, anyhow.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Karxrida The Unknown Since: May, 2012
The Unknown
Jul 8th 2014 at 12:41:47 AM •••

Did Paul really hit on Dawn? I don't remember that at all. Also, I need to go shoot myself for admitting to watching the show up to DP Pt.

Edited by 104.34.219.208 If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with? Hide / Show Replies
PDL Since: Jul, 2010
Jul 9th 2014 at 12:07:04 PM •••

From what I remember, there was virtually no interaction between those two characters, apart from isolated snide comments to each other. So no, there isn't anything like that.

DonaldthePotholer Since: Dec, 2009
Jul 3rd 2014 at 10:52:40 AM •••

Removed from It's the Same, So It Sucks:

Whomever wrote this obviously didn't watch what I call the Diamond and Pearl Trilogy (Movies 10-12 inclusive), which do reference each other.

Ketchum's corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced tactic is indistinguishable from blind luck. Hide / Show Replies
Karxrida Since: May, 2012
Jul 3rd 2014 at 1:56:28 PM •••

Just because there are a couple outliers doesn't mean you delete the entire thing, you could have just fixed it (and even then the DP movies are their own self-contained story, too).

Edited by 104.34.219.208 If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Karxrida The Unknown Since: May, 2012
The Unknown
May 22nd 2014 at 10:40:37 AM •••

So is there any reason why The Scrappy isn't even on this page and just tells us to go to the anime section for it?

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with? Hide / Show Replies
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
May 22nd 2014 at 11:03:36 AM •••

Because someone doesn't follow wiki protocol.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Karxrida Since: May, 2012
May 22nd 2014 at 1:36:06 PM •••

So I'm assuming we should fix it, right?

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
May 22nd 2014 at 1:44:56 PM •••

Please.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
DarthMegatron Since: Jan, 2010
Apr 13th 2014 at 3:40:08 PM •••

Would this Statler And Waldorf bit be funny, or would it just be unnecessary bashing of the writers?

Statler: It says here that the Pokémon writers make their show for young children only!
Waldorf: The question is, who are the real babies: the target audience, or the people who write for them?
Both: Do-ho-ho-ho-hoh!

Edited by 24.52.222.35 Hide / Show Replies
PDL Since: Jul, 2010
Apr 13th 2014 at 3:53:18 PM •••

I'd say it is unnecessary bashing. The fact that the anime is mostly directed towards children doesn't necessarily mean that the writers themselves are childish. There could be a lot going on behind the scenes that we simply don't know about, like Executive Meddling and other stuff that they want to include but can't because of mandates dictated by outside forces.

If this were for any other form of media, it would probably be removed quickly.

DarthMegatron Since: Jan, 2010
Apr 13th 2014 at 4:59:00 PM •••

Makes sense. It does feel like an undeserved attack on the anime writers, even if what they produce has lots to criticize, so I wanted to check here first.

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