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VeryMelon
topic
09:37:40 PM Sep 17th 2014
This entry is being edit warred over.

  • Naoto Shirogane may be popular with the fanbase, but her character has more than enough aspects to qualify as a Canon Sue - she has students of both genders commenting on how attractive she is both before and after it emerges she's merely pretending to be a guy; she's characterised as being socially inept and abrasive yet still manages to net a bunch of friends and admirers shortly after transferring to Yasogami; her Social Link is the only one of the Investigation Team's which doesn't have anything to do with their Shadows; she's the only one of the Investigation Team who's actually a licensed Detective; she was raised by and assisted her detective grandfather from a young age following the deaths of her parents; and despite the clues all being there, the Investigation Team only figures out who's behind the kidnappings shortly after Naoto joins them, at which point the contributions of the rest of the Investigation Team make to the investigation dramatically decrease as Naoto takes the lead.

Talk it out here.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
11:32:02 PM Sep 17th 2014
It seems to fit, only following the entry.
SpectralTime
04:00:01 AM Sep 18th 2014
I don't believe that that entry *does* paint a realistic or even-handed portrait of the character. Naoto *is* considered attractive, but so are other characters in the party. Her Social Link *does* relate to her Shadow, specifically, her feelings of inferiority regarding the art of detection and her gender. As to being a young detective and so on, it's a common-enough fictional trope that we gave it its own trope, and the entry greatly exaggerates the degree to which she "takes over" the investigation.

If I wanted to, I could easily construct such an entry around Yukiko, making many of the same observations and using the same kind of biased, tinted language. But I won't, because Yukiko and Naoto are both painted as flawed human beings with their own contributions to the case, not as infallible wish-fulfillment devices.
Larkmarn
06:49:15 AM Sep 18th 2014
I'd say she counts. I like her, but she's oddly competent even compared to the rest of the cast. She's the one that figures things out first (now, that's justified in that she's a detective, but being a brilliant detective when she's the youngest in the group? That Improbable Age is more evidence).

She doesn't take over the investigation, but the thing is, once she joins the team she's pretty much infallible. Despite being the least experienced member of the cast in terms of this investigation, when she makes an observation or point, the player can count on her being right.

Not to mention P 4 A, where she does basically keep up with (if not pass) the Shadow Operatives and winds up figuring out the plot. Yes, it's again justified as her being Ms. Exposition, but she still does an improbably good job of keeping up.

Now, Tropes Are Not Bad. Just because she has Canon Sue tendencies doesn't make her a Flat Character or a Black Hole Sue.
VeryMelon
08:27:51 AM Sep 18th 2014
I really don't care one way or the other I just don't want this to get out of hand.
Larkmarn
08:36:50 AM Sep 18th 2014
Neither do I; I hadn't made any edits on the matter, but having seen them it makes sense to me.
SpectralTime
10:15:01 AM Sep 18th 2014
edited by 71.226.98.222
Whelp... *shrugs* I disagree, but I haven't made any edits either, and it *is* on the YMMV page. If it gets sent back in, I wouldn't fall over dead or anything. I guess I'm just not sure what the definition of "Mary Sue" is if Naoto fits.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
10:40:16 AM Sep 18th 2014
Mary Sue is, as its page says, a very broad label.
Larkmarn
11:16:23 AM Oct 15th 2014
... so should we readd this?
back to YMMV/Persona4

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