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naal2
topic
07:43:41 PM Sep 12th 2014
  • So Spike, someone who is treated on the same level as the ponies in the sense that he can interact just as well as the other ponies and is considered to be something akin to Twilight's adoptive little brother... and he becomes a dog when he crosses into the mirror, and not someone equal to Twilight or the other ponies. Though this adds to a pile of Unfortunate Implications surrounding Spike's status in the show. Thankfully, this is somewhat assuaged by the fact that he can still talk.
    • It doesn't help that in the sequel, the Diamond dogs appear to be human, showing that all species in equestria appear to be human in this universe. Yet Spike is still given the role of pet/animal sidekick.
Why was this deleted? If someone doesn't answer, I'm going to restore this.
MagBas
08:30:26 PM Sep 12th 2014
Quoting Eagal's edit reason: "Unfortunate Implications require citation"
naal2
01:43:52 PM Sep 26th 2014
How would somebody do that?
SeptimusHeap
moderator
01:45:33 AM Sep 27th 2014
Find an outside source that shares that opinion.

If you can't find any, then the entry won't be allowed.
Elfkaiser
topic
07:36:44 AM Sep 3rd 2013
edited by 69.172.221.4
I noticed that it's keep being mentioned that Twilight not telling Principal Celestia = Idiot Plot. While I can see that explaining things to Principal Celestia might have solved the whole affair much more easier and faster, the movie proper however has some points to justify why Twilight doesn't do this. The biggest one is the scene after Twilight leaves the office and Spike asks why she didn't just do it. Twilight explains to Spike that the explanation that she's actually a pony from another world would just make her look crazy by comparing to what would happen if the scenario was reversed.

Spike: Twilight, why didn't you just tell the crown was yours and ask for it back?
Twilight: Well I was going to but imagine if one of them shown up in Equestria saying they came from a place filled with tall fleshy two-legged creatures with these (referring to her hands). They'd they were crazy.

As a sort of lampshade that any explanation of Equestria would make Twilight just look crazy, a student who passes by sees and overhears her during this explanation. He just slowly walks away as he just saw a crazy girl waving her hands and body around while explaining some stuff to her dog.

Spike (in response to Twilight): You make a good point.

Now according to the Idiot Plot page, "It's not so bad if the characters are supposed to be acting like idiots, but it's very bad if the Idiot Plot depends on a character suddenly acting stupid enough for the Plot to work." Likewise according to the Idiot Ball page, "This is generally not a compliment on the writing because the person carrying the idiot ball is often acting out of character, misunderstanding something that could be cleared up by asking a single reasonable question or performing a simple problem-solving action, but that he isn't doing solely because the writers don't want him to." Based on those criteria, the scene in which Twilight doesn't explain herself to Celestia doesn't seem to match either Idiot Plot or Idiot Ball as Twilight was not acting stupid nor out of character since she gives her reasons to Spike. Her giving an explanation to Spike shows that she was thinking and not suddenly doing something stupid necessary to drive the plot.

Now despite Twilight's explanation to Spike, there have been some alternative solutions I've noticed to how Twilight could prove that she isn't crazy if she were to explain such a farfetched story to Principal Celestia. These seem like really obvious solutions in the office scene itself but in correlation to the rest of the movie, they just don't work.

Show Spike Talking to Celestia: The obvious alternative solution would be to show Spike talking since it worked when Human!Pinkie guessed Twilight's story. This would work if only the scene prior to the office scene with Celestia didn't happen. The scene in which Human!Fluttershy tells Twilight to hide Spike.

Fluttershy: Oh wait. You're not really supposed to have pets on school grounds. Might wanna tuck him in your backpack. That's what I do.

Twilight was told by Fluttershy to hide Spike. Something she clearly remembers during the office scene as Spike is in Twilight's bag and when she quickly pushes Spike's head down when he briefly pokes out. Being told something like this a few moments ago and completely ignoring it, seems more like an Idiot Ball than not explaining things to Celestia. Now Principal Celestia could be a Reasonable Authority Figure like her pony counterpart, but showing a dog before the principal, who knows and probably made the "No Pets Allowed" rule, in the school, in her own office and after giving some crazy explanation just to show it can talk and prove your crazy explanation looks like a Zany Scheme that's maybe too unbelievable to work.

Show the portal to Celestia Another alternative solution would be to bring Principal Celestia to the portal to prove Twilight's case. Here's the thing, Principal Celestia is a principal. A principal who when Twilight visited her was clearly working. She was nice enough to give Twilight the time for some exposition on the Fall Formal. However the same might not be said if Twilight gave her some crazy explanation and then asked her to go somewhere just to see the portal. She is busy and due to being around the school more and said portal not always being open, it's very likely that Celestia would just think that Twilight was wasting her time.

Show Princess Celestia to Principal Celestia: This is kinda the reason I decided to make this whole post in the first place. Kinda the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. While this could prove Twilight's case, this new alternative solution kinda completely ignores what was stated back when Twlight was leaving for the human world.

Princess Celestia: I'm afraid I can't let you go.
Rainbow Dash: What!? Why not!?
Princess Celestia: Sending all of you could upset the balance of this alternative world. Creating havoc that would make it impossible for Twilight to get the crown back from Sunset Shimmer. This is something that Princess Twilight must do alone.

Based on that, the solution wherein Twilight shows Principal Celestia the proof of her crazy explanation in the form of Princess Celestia is not doable as the Princess herself gives an explanation. If the Princess herself is not willing to risk sending Twilight's friends along with Twilight in fear that it may cause havoc, what would be the chances that she herself would comply to go through the portal to help Twilight out. There's also the whole returning back to Equestria and explaining to everyone why Twilight didn't return with the crown, however the conflict that this solution brings kinda stands out more.

I understand that this office scene is a pivotal moment in the movie and it leads to a plot that can be seen as ludicrous to most. However, the scene combined with other parts of the movie shows that it isn't a point to label the movie with an Idiot Plot.
GoblinScribe
topic
10:52:19 AM Jul 23rd 2013
edited by 69.172.221.2
The potshot at Meghan under The Scrappy has NO place here. I've been hearing a lot of hate for her over the movie—as if there's a way people WOULD be satisfied with the premise she got given—and very little evidence into how exactly she's lied. If there is evidence, how about the troper actually include it? As-is, commenting on her 'track record' is just a petty, childish jab, and I suggest it be removed.
Psyga315
11:00:49 AM Jul 23rd 2013
Have you even read the thing? It's talking about her statement that Flash Sentry won't appear in season 4 and fans thinking it's a lie because of what happened with Rarity (which, to her credit, was more of a last minute change to the episode than it was an actual lie). It wasn't about her writing the movie in a whole.
GoblinScribe
09:41:50 AM Jul 28th 2013
edited by 69.172.221.8
If people want to accuse her of flip-flopping, I still want a source. I don't actually know what the deal with Rarity is, and as it was the line read pretty clearly as a 'potshot'. Regardless, you've edited it, and I have no further complaints of substance.
Psyga315
02:30:02 PM Jul 28th 2013
I edited it out mostly because I kind of realized one incident does not equal track record... Ironic since I was the one who said that in the first place. I think what I was trying to do was say "because of this event, fans yadda yadda". I'm pretty sure there was evidence, but I'm not sure where to find it. Derpibooru, the place that contained the proof, is offline for now, but I'd check there once it's up.

As for the Rarity deal, she was said to be the focused character in Spike At Your Service, but because she came off as a dick, they changed it so that Applejack would be the one focused upon. Merriweather said that "there's a Rarity episode", and she was referring to the episode, but the change happened after the announcement was made.
GoblinScribe
09:51:01 AM Jul 29th 2013
Ah, so it wasn't so much a flipflop as just poor communication. Though I didn't know Merriwether had ever communicated with the fans—she doesn't even have a Twitter.
Psyga315
topic
07:36:06 AM Jul 21st 2013
Alright, now I understand that Shimmer was redeemed and all that, but Moral Event Horizon is still a YMMV trope, which means that not everyone's gonna agree on liking her. If I recalled correctly, Moral Event Horizon is more about the sympathy of a character being lost as opposed to the "chance of redemption", but it maybe a while before I read the description.
MsCC93
11:51:11 AM Jul 21st 2013
edited by 216.99.32.42
It's because some fans sympathized with her after Sunset felt remorse for her deeds.
Peteman
topic
02:03:48 PM May 17th 2013
Would Fanfic Fuel be an appropriate addition? It's a mirror that leads to an alternate reality.
PDL
03:32:38 PM May 17th 2013
Are there fics about the mirror already? I'd say we wait until it becomes a thing in the fanfic community first.
dogman15
10:04:34 PM May 18th 2013
There may not be fics about this mirror yet, but I have a feeling people have already written about a very similar subject already.
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