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DrakeClawfang
topic
05:58:45 AM Nov 19th 2012
edited by DrakeClawfang
The Laguna Sequences are indeed candidates for Big Lipped Alligator Moment - they never have any warning they're coming up, the reasons for why they happen are unknown for much of the game, nothing seen in any of them is relevant to the main story, the characters are confused about what happened and outside of discussing them immediately after they occur, they don't talk about it often.

True, the flashbacks tell the story of Laguna, Ellone and Adel, but these things do not come into play until the last like, three hours of the game. As a result up until you get to the space base, the flashbacks are entirely without context, but even with context their link to the main story is weak. Their main relevance is not for the sequences themself, but how they occur, ie, Ellone. Laguna's tale of how he came to Esthar is largely inconsequential to the rest of the game except it shows how he came to Esthar.
KingZeal
07:30:54 AM Nov 19th 2012
That's still misuse of the trope. It doesn't matter how long it takes for it to be explained. If it gets explained, it's not this trope. And that's not even discounting that it flat out explains every major character's backstory.
Rebochan
12:12:04 PM Nov 19th 2012
Yea, the Laguna sequences are referenced frequently and they're an important plot element. The fact they can even happen is key to much of the storyline. And the fact that they come out of nowhere and the characters are given little warning is itself a relevant story element that allows for other elements to happen.

Even earlier than the late game, if you start checking Selphie's diary, she adds a Laguna fan page based on her obsession with him specifically from these flashbacks. So yea, there's even further acknowledgement of their relevance to the storyline.

And that's not even pointing out that one of these flashbacks gave Zell the knowledge he needed of the prison he was trapped in so he and his team could escape.

While there's certainly room for criticism over whether a plot element is being executed successfully, that's not really the point of a BLAM entry, which is mainly focused on complete plot non-sequitors.
Zaptech
02:58:36 AM Nov 20th 2012
There is warning that it's coming up - you just don't have the context until you've played through the game once to recognize Ellone's significance. The visions are relevant; they fill in background, particularly regarding Ellone and Laguna and their connection to Esthar.

BLA Ms are completely unconnected to the storyline or setting. Even an event that explains background regarding characters is relevant to the setting and doesn't count.
lu127
moderator
05:40:09 AM Nov 20th 2012
It's been a while since I played VIII, but I don't think it's a BLAM, as the story makes a big deal about it. The issue is that the flashbacks and their connection to the overall story were never spelled out like other major reveals in the series, but instead left the very clear implications.

I could see the flashbacks falling under a related trope though. Can't think of anything off the top of my head. Maybe see Lost and Found?
Rebochan
topic
04:44:20 PM Dec 27th 2011
edited by Rebochan
So now because of a single piece of natter, this came up AGAIN.

  • Strangled by the Red String: Depending on the player's actions, Squall and Rinoa's romance can come off this way; not taking Rinoa along in your party and missing some key events can leave out some crucial elements of character development that make Squall's sudden attachment to her come out of nowhere.

So. There's nothing really wrong with this entry as is, it came out of several different passes on it on the page dedicated to the trope itself. It does not unfairly bash the player, and it does not needlessly troll the game.

There has been an attempt to simply delete any actual explanation for the trope and simply replace it with the equivalant of "This happens." As I am really not interested in another massive argument with King Zeal over a single topic, I'd prefer a legitimate reason to not explain anything about the trope at all in its entry both here and on the actual Strangled by the Red String page.
Stratadrake
06:47:46 PM Dec 27th 2011
King Zeal posted in the forums about this. My thoughts on the matter is that merely saying "this occurs in the game" is not sufficient context to explain how the trope applies — the minimum context is to specify it's about the Squall+Rinoa pairing in specific.
Zaptech
11:11:22 PM Dec 30th 2011
I agree. An example that doesn't explain what the example is really cuts to close to X Just X for me. Some context is necessary.
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