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mack
topic
04:55:36 AM Jun 13th 2014

This line in Abandon Shipping needs to be moved to Ship Sinking. Abandon Shipping is a fandom term that will involved shipped pairings that aren't ever hinted at in canon, while Ship Sinking is a YMMV in-universe example of a teased pairing being sunk.

The Finn/Flame Princess ship was sunk in "Frost and Fire" when Finn manipulated Flame Princess into fighting the Ice King, causing her to break up with him, though there was some reignited hope for them in Earth and Water with the two continuing to be on good terms, only to be completely dashed in The Red Throne by Cinnamon Bun of all people, admitting his feelings for Flame Princess.

Ship Sinking should also get a line added about yet another revival of Finn/Bubblegum in "Breezy" with Finn imagining Bubblegum while the lines "Who calls to my heart", and "My hero arise, let love be your guide" are sung in the background.
emeriin
05:56:28 AM Jun 13th 2014
FP wasn't interested in Finn at all after what he did though, and Bubblegum has never seen him that way. Not really reignited hope when neither woman want it.
Sleepy_Eyes
topic
10:18:51 AM May 1st 2014
So since I can't seem to use the thread for requesting to unlock pages to, well, do that, I'll resort to putting my suggestion here anyway: Can we please add mention to the Unfortunate Implications entry of how uncomfortably ableist Princess Bubblegum's decision (namely her reasoning behind it) regarding what to do with Lemongrab at the end of Lemonhope Part 2 was, and similarly how problematic arguments defending her choice tend to be?
Larkmarn
10:32:28 AM May 1st 2014
Okay, a few things:

A: Why can't you use the request pages to be unlocked thread?

B: What you want is the "Request Edits to a Locked Page" thread.

C: You're going to have to actually say what you want to go onto the page, and not a vague notion of what it should be.
Sleepy_Eyes
05:42:32 PM May 1st 2014
The answer to A is that the "Add a Post" button is mysteriously missing from the bottom of the page and so I don't see any way to make the request I want to make. Same for the link you gave me in B. I'll work out how to phrase exactly what I want to go into the page once I have an idea of what I'm doing wrong with the forum.
Larkmarn
06:29:50 PM May 1st 2014
... are you banned from the forums for some reason?
Sleepy_Eyes
11:01:03 PM May 1st 2014
I've never posted anything in the forums, and the button to add a post is there for several other threads so I don't really know what's up.
Larkmarn
05:40:07 AM May 2nd 2014
Ah. Are you on the last page? You can only post if you're on the last page.
Sleepy_Eyes
09:21:12 AM May 2nd 2014
......ah, yes. Why didn't I think of that it is so obvious. Thank you though, I'll do this properly now.
Larkmarn
09:44:08 AM May 2nd 2014
You're welcome. And no worries, it's a fairly odd quirk of our forums.

But yeah, make sure that you post the exact edit that you want them to put in, with proper markup and everything. You'll also have to be a lot more specific than you were in your initial post on this page. Happy troping.
Ecclytennysmithylove
topic
09:50:58 AM Mar 29th 2014
Can you please unlock the editing option? I found a trope in the recap episode page "Lemonhope Part 2" that needs to be moved to the YMMV page:

  • Epileptic Trees: It's extremely likely that Phlannel Boxingday is actually Princess Bubblegum in disguise: both are pink; have an identical face apart from the mustache; have the same initials and same number of letters and syllables in their first and last name, Boxingday's last lines include Gratuitous German ("In deinem Kopf."), references to being unable to interfere in Castle Lemongrab's policy due to treaties and Techno Babble. The only other possible explanation is that Boxingday is a "sibling" that came from the same pile of goo where she came from.
SeptimusHeap
12:21:38 PM Mar 29th 2014
Ask here.
illegalcheese
topic
08:47:44 PM Mar 11th 2014
May I ask why the page was locked?
SomeNewGuy
08:54:04 PM Mar 11th 2014
An overabundance of Lemongrab fanatics and PB demonisers, mostly.
KuroKokoro
03:13:51 PM Mar 12th 2014
...that were mostly just one person using multiple handles. It's a long story.
Mo
topic
11:20:42 AM Mar 9th 2014
I believe we should just list Somvilay Xayaphone as a Scapegoat Creator mainly because the fanbase likes to blame the Finn/Flame Princess breakup and Finn's Character Derailment on him.
Druplesnubb
topic
11:30:17 AM Feb 23rd 2014
edited by 78.72.246.158
I don't like Lemongrab's entry on The Scrappy. As far as I've seen several people felt genuinely sorry for him and the vast majority found him hilarious before Too Old. Can we edit the entry to clarify that it only applies to him after the episode Too Old (or maybe Another Five Short Graybles)?
Asger
02:15:52 AM Mar 1st 2014
Honestly I don't think I saw much dislike of Lemongrab in his earlier appearances either, and he clearly did garner a large fandom of his own by those who found him sympathetic. Yeah I think it should specify the Too Old incarnation.
Mo
topic
10:57:59 AM Feb 17th 2014
I would like to address the backlash to Xayaphone in the YMMV in some way. I added him to the "Scrappy" section, but it was rejected. So, I want to know if there's another way to address this.
emeriin
11:00:16 AM Feb 17th 2014
I might be wrong, I'll ask on Ask The Tropers. Maybe Die for Our Ship in the meantime?
Mo
11:04:01 AM Feb 17th 2014
edited by 108.228.14.153
Probably. I think "Fire Him for Our Ship" is a more accurate term for Xayaphone's backlash, though.
emeriin
topic
08:58:08 PM Feb 13th 2014
** In "Rattleballs", Princess Bubblegum created a group of robots to guard her kingdom. When they became too violent and battle-loving in doing so (which is hardly different from Finn's usual attitude), she became worried about what they might do rather than anything they do. They don't betray her and don't cross any line, yet she gathers them all in a factory and, without them knowing it's coming, destroys all of them but one. She commits genocide on what she created when they did nothing but serve the purpose she created them for. Naturally, many fans have backlashed against her for this.

I removed this because the trope says "the Moral Event Horizon refers to the first evil deed to prove a particular character to be irredeemably evil. Note the word irredeemably. It is a demonstration of permanent evil; as in, the first evil deed whose role in the story is to tell us they will always be evil. That moment where you know for sure that it is simply not in their character to do something genuinely good and unselfish." Whether you think it was good enough or not, she still is treated by the characters at least to be less bloodthirsty at the end. If she was "permanent evil", she would have slaughtered Rattleballs too. Plus this was decided in Ask The Tropers to be a sign of the trope's Trope Decay.
turina
topic
06:49:41 PM Feb 5th 2014
* Base Breaker: Princess Bubblegum, in spades. Most of it is centered around how she is almost never called out for her morally ambiguous actions and/or nothing of signifience ever comes out of her being called out.

Off the top of my head, "I'm Just Your Problem" kickstarted her and Marcy acting better towards each other, Lemongrab yelling at her constantly got her back to "18" and trying to look after him better, Rattleballs got her less bloodthirsty than in her younger days, people were mad at her in the second game and she apologized, the yelling in Burning Low was completely unwarranted, and neither Flame Princess or Tree Trunks trust her.
Customer
topic
03:30:46 PM Sep 16th 2013
I just added these back to the page, but it would help if all of these Unfortunate Implications examples get some sort of reference that shows that each concern isn't limited to a single editor/fan. With a show with as big of a fandom as this, it's fairly easy for someone to put in an entry right after an episode has aired before an adequate consensus can be reached.

For the record, the necessity for UI entries to require citations is primarily for the UI page itself, not to other YMMV pages, as was discussed in the TRS thread and in the discussion page for Unfortunate Implications. That said, it should be expected that eventually other YMMV pages will require the same rule, so preemptive measures should be taken.
The examples are here:
  • Jesse Moynihan, a writer on the show, saying that he used a real-life autistic person, Stephen Wiltshire, as partial inspiration when writing the character Lemongrab, who comes across as Ambiguously Autistic and also very evil and the butt of many jokes.
  • While the show is fairly groundbreaking in its frank and often realistic and often very sympathetic portrayal of people who are mentally ill, it is a fact that most of their mentally ill characters either exist to be scary, comic relief, or both. Ice King's insanity is often played for laughs, Lemongrab's autism and other issues paint him as a frightening villain or a laughable idiot, Princess Cookie was extremely violent and was taken to a mental hospital, and the Royal Tart Toter existed just to be a non-sequitor.
  • Lemongrab mauling his twin to the point of deformity and abusing him afterwards is rife with this.
  • Lemonhope is the only lemon child that has a more "normal" looking appearance (i.e. he's more human-looking, even compared to the Lemongrabs themselves). He has a knack for music (with the harp anyway) and is said to be gifted enough that Princess Bubblegum immediately wants to take him to the Candy Kingdom to enroll him in a school for gifted children. When the other lemon children are freed from their shock collars, instead of trying to escape with Finn, PB, and Lemonhope, they help the group escape with the prodigy lemon child so that he may return and save their kingdom, while the lemon children themselves all stay behind, with their now very angry lemon father. Not only does this give Lemonhope some serious early Purity Sue/Marty Stu vibes, but reeks of unfortunate implications because Bubblegum chose (good-intentioned or not) the only "normal" child that was special enough to leave a horrible place that all the children were abused at.
VeryMelon
topic
04:13:02 PM Aug 15th 2013
Deleted the Complete Monster entry for Lemongrab as it violates our Cleanup Thread rules.
KuroKokoro
topic
01:50:30 PM Jun 19th 2013
Should we remove the Lemongrab entries? They're incredibly creepy.
KuroKokoro
topic
05:17:17 PM May 1st 2013
The Lemongrab guy is back.
hoskins88
topic
06:27:01 PM Apr 4th 2013
We might need to start making folders for the page as its getting very long.
vexusdylan
topic
01:33:07 PM Jan 4th 2013
edited by vexusdylan
Why was the Fight King taken off of the Complete Monster list? How does he not qualify? Until then, I re-added him.
Thedoctor112
topic
08:24:33 AM Dec 13th 2012
All The Little People is not a Take That towards shipping. It's a tale about a boy going through puberty, getting urges he doesn't understand and learning that it's not a good idea to manipulate people.
vexusdylan
01:33:59 PM Jan 4th 2013
I thought it was a reference to The Sims.
LadyPhantomhive
09:01:38 PM Jun 14th 2013
edited by 216.99.32.45
hoskins88
topic
07:44:13 PM Dec 4th 2012
I made Adventure Time its own Ho Yay page since the examples on this page and the main ho yay page were getting long and only going to get longer. I moved everything from this page and the main ho yay page to the New page with only minor tweeks for redundancy.
KuroKokoro
topic
06:50:27 PM Oct 11th 2012
tropemunch is back.
KuroKokoro
topic
02:38:08 PM Sep 10th 2012
Am I the only one who reads the Lemongrab entries and expects the writer to start screaming "ABLEIST SCUM!"?
LadyPhantomhive
09:02:47 PM Jun 14th 2013
No you are not.
Geostomp
topic
07:49:32 AM Sep 5th 2012
Can we get some limiting on the Lemongrab content. It's getting ridiculously long and obsessive on this one character.
KuroKokoro
10:19:53 PM Sep 5th 2012
It's actually starting to get creepy.
KuroKokoro
01:34:56 PM Sep 6th 2012
It's just one guy adding all that stuff in, talk to him/her.
hoskins88
topic
10:02:31 PM Sep 1st 2012
edited by hoskins88
I dont think the Marceline/Bubblgum and Lemongrab/Lemongrab pairings actually count as Crack. I mean both pairs have ship teasing if YMMV on what kind of relationship is teased
hoskins88
11:53:22 AM Sep 9th 2012
After waiting a couple days I removed both pairings from the Crack Pairing list, my reason being is that both pairs do have a relationship of some kind weather it be (ex-)friendship, sibling, or other is of course YMMV. The Crack Pairing description is two characters that etheir have never met or have little to no interaction if they do know each other or have no way of meeting in canon.
KuroKokoro
topic
07:44:06 PM Aug 1st 2012
A lot of entries about Lemongrab are downright disturbing. HE'S NOT REAL.
SFH
06:18:12 PM Sep 11th 2012
Something to remember when any fandom starts scaring you: the word "fan" comes from "fanatic".
Oleetar
topic
04:15:36 PM Jul 23rd 2012
YMMV/Adventure Time is nothing but a constant Edit War over whether or not Princess Bubblegum and Lemongrab are scrappies. There should probably be something done about that.
LadyPhantomhive
09:06:51 PM Jun 14th 2013
Seems to be fixed now, with general consensus being that Lemongrab is a scrappy and Bubblegum is not.
Brokenshell44
topic
04:46:49 PM Sep 1st 2011
So...should their be character entries for the Rule63 characters now that they will be in an episode? I know its (so far) just one episode, but so was the Lich other than his Early-Bird Cameo in His Hero.
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