Western Animation The Legend Of Korra Discussion

Larkmarn

topic

06:47:08 AM May 13th 2013

Am I the only one who liked the older image better? Despite being a bit small, it was clearer since this one is so dark, plus it had more characters.

Though I suppose there is some value in omitting Tenzin, since he was an Advertised Extra compared to Korra, Bolin, and Mako.

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Torresp

topic

11:41:13 PM Jan 1st 2013

Hello, I really think it would be easier and better to have a character index that will contain characters from both series. The Legend of Korra and Avatar: The last airbender are both part of the same franchise, so it would make more sense to have a character index for the entire franchise. For example, Ben 10 has spawned 3 sequels, but they have one index page that indexes all characters that have appeared across all series. Here is the link to my example: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/Ben10?from=Characters.Ben10Omniverse

. I hope you take this into consideration.

Telcontar

01:21:19 AM Jan 2nd 2013

Thing is, there's little character overlap between them. Those who appear in both series are much changed in the interim, so it makes little sense to treat them as one thing. Every work can have a character sheet; with Ben 10, people simply haven't bothered to create a separate page because there is more overlap.

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Torresp

topic

10:06:58 AM Jan 1st 2013

Wouldn't Mako be a Hypercompetent Sidekick? How many times has Korra saved the World? By herself? Zero. Everytime, there has always been someone there to help her. Mako has already saved Korra countless times. It's a surprise Korra even made it as far as she is now.

Besides, Korra is in a sense, The Leader of Team Avatar

Larkmarn

01:12:47 PM Jan 1st 2013

No. Korra relies on him as part of her team, but MOST characters with a team would've failed but for their teammates. Korra herself is way too competent for Mako to be considered a Hypercompetent Sidekick. Mako isn't hypercompetent enough for him to be one, either. Not saying he's incompetent or anything, but the trope is about a sidekick who is way more intelligent or capable than the leader. Which is not the case.

Torresp

05:07:57 PM Jan 1st 2013

First of all, what you are saying does not make any sense. You might have some typos or something.

By the way, there were numerous times Korra made decisions that made her look dumb and obnoxious. Without a doubt, Korra is cocky and arrogant. Countless times, Mako is usually the one who has to save her. After seeing one book, it is already clear that Korra wouldn't even be alive without Mako's help.

Larkmarn

06:14:59 PM Jan 1st 2013

Nah, I'm good. Not sure what you're referring to.

Anyway, long story short, Korra isn't incompetent enough, Mako isn't hypercompetent enough. Yes, he's saved her life a bunch of times but their dynamic is a fairly standard Hero/Lancer dynamic, not that of a Hypercompetent Sidekick.

Rebochan

01:01:32 AM May 13th 2013

I'd also point out that every hero on this show needs help from someone. The only reason Aang was able to take on Ozai one on one was because he had every single ally he'd accumulated ensuring there was nobody around to back up Ozai. Sokka, Toph, and Suki took out the entire air force, the White Lotus took out the standing army, and Zuko and Katara took out Azula.

And for that matter, Korra went up against Amon with Mako while the rest of her team dealt with the rest of the Equalists. Even if Mako wasn't with her, she still couldn't claim the efforts are hers alone when a lot of other competent people were ensuring there was nobody to come back up Amon or that the city or military burned while she was trying to subdue him.

Man, the way people write about Mako, you'd think he single-handedly defeated Amon without breaking out a sweat while Korra swooned at his feet. Whereas in the actual show, even breaking blood-bending to hit him with lightning got nothing more than a amused taunt out of Amon.

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IG42

topic

09:17:37 AM Nov 18th 2012

On the subject of soft water, I would say that the first point is going a little overboard, I mean the bending arena is high enough that it's going to sting like a b**ch but not injure seriously

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Rebochan

topic

08:00:01 PM Sep 20th 2012

I don't want to pull without double-checking, but I noticed The Unfair Sex was added to describe a fan reaction to the love triangle. While I've certainly noticed this behavior in the fandom, looking at the trope page itself, the actual seems to only concern itself with the behavior of characters in-universe, and nobody in the show actually displays behavior like this (i.e. holding the man more responsible for a transgression than a woman). Closest may be Asami blowing up at Mako and not seeming to react to Korra during Kissgate...but Asami also A) doesn't know who started the kiss, only that it happened and B) doesn't care because Mako still hid it from her and that alone is a good reason to get mad at him.

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Rebochan

topic

10:51:35 AM Sep 14th 2012

Could we get a mod note on the page about Complete Monster? I didn't even know it had a thread, but apparently there seems to have been an edit war over it. Seems appropriate to halt fresh edits.

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Flipdarkfuture

topic

06:28:59 AM Jul 11th 2012

Fanfic Recommendations removed: why?

Not much to say apart from it being a mistake or something.

Telcontar

07:35:12 AM Jul 11th 2012

They're still here, it's just that the tab doesn't show up on the main page. No idea why.

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MichelleHowe

topic

04:25:12 AM Jun 30th 2012

So I added First Girl Wins, the example of which was rightfully changed, but I still feel the whole Bolin-meeting/Mako-radio/who's-first(?) thing deserves a mention. Just not sure how to do it, though. xD

Larkmarn

09:43:04 AM Jul 3rd 2012
edited by Larkmarn

I edited it, was that what you had in mind?

MichelleHowe

01:31:50 PM Jul 3rd 2012

Pretty much, except I found it interesting that she actually heard of Mako before on the Radio, so technically, it's sorta played straight, but... xD;

Just something I found really interesting that the creators did and think it deserves mentioning under this trope, except I'm unsure how to phrase it. xP

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MasamiPhoenix

topic

11:55:16 PM Jun 28th 2012

removed the following

Distress Ball: Lin wraps her metal cables around the Lieutenant's electrified kali sticks. She's an experienced fighter, a master earthbender, and has squared off against Equalists with electrified weaponry before. This is done to allow Tenzin's children an opportunity to pull a Big Damn Heroes moment.

Because Lin didn't wrap her cables around the Lieutenant's kali sticks, the Lieutenant caught her cables with them. I.e. it was him exploiting a weakness, not Lin performing a dumb move.

Eagal

01:24:04 PM Jun 29th 2012

The cables aren't whips. Lin actively controls their entire length. They couldn't have wrapped around the Lieutenant's sticks unless Lin wanted them to.

And that still doesn't excuse Lin using metal cables against a guy she knows for a fact uses electrified kali sticks.

Rebochan

02:28:20 PM Jun 29th 2012

When people add a contested trope to this page, that's not an invitation to re-add it before anyone's actually had a chance to talk about it.

I disagree that it's a Distress Ball as well. Lin using her most common weapon isn't actually being blindingly stupid.

Eagal

03:36:07 PM Jun 29th 2012

1: Knows cables don't work on Lt, and in fact does more harm than good.

2: Has been using earthbending on Lt's subordinates, whom are not at risk of exploiting the metal in the cables (At least I don't remember them having shock gloves, could be wrong, but doesn't really matter).

3: Does not use earthbending when Lt shows up, instead choosing to not only use the cables, but actively enables the Lieutenant to use his electricity against her by grabbing his sticks with them.

I can't imagine any way in which it could be less of an example of Distress Ball.

Rebochan

10:41:22 AM Jul 1st 2012
edited by Rebochan

Now, I finally had time to watch the scene again.

First off, let's get one thing out of the way - you're basing this trope application on the idea that any single time a character needs help, it's this because the character must be acting blindingly stupid for the villain to get the upper hand.

Second?

Watching the scene again, the Lieutenant clearly caught the cables while they were being thrown, and he wasn't her only opponent. Lin may be able to control the length, but physics still applies. You're suggesting its Distress Ball simply because the villains got the upper hand on her bending.

I'm pretty sure Distress Ball is not intended for the viewer to analyze every single situation to look for how the character that just got hurt and needed help should have known better.

Larkmarn

08:48:20 AM Jul 2nd 2012

It's a Distress Ball because Lin should know better.

She's a master Earthbender, she's seen her subordinates get taken down this exact same way, she's encountered him before, and she attacks in the worst possible way. You don't grapple the guy with electrified weapons. If she had used her cables as whips (or spikes), if she had thrown rocks at him, if she had done... pretty much anything else, it would have gone differently. Lin had one of the most versatile skillsets at her disposal. She did the single worst thing she could have done.

Moreover, there's a very Doylist reason for her doing it: She had to be in distress in order to justify the Airbending kids. That's part of Distress Ball; not only do they have to do something they wouldn't, but it has to be clear that the author did it in order to advance the plot (or in this case, introduce a scene that they had clearly wanted to make sure was included).

We've had this discussion before, on this page, and the general consensus was that it was Distress Ball (albeit begrudgingly).

Eagal

07:14:01 PM Jul 2nd 2012
edited by Eagal

I'm not claiming that any time a character needs help it's a Distress Ball. Dunno where you got that idea. If Lin legitimately fought the Lt and lost because he was just better, that wouldn't be an example. But that's not what happened.

Lin knows about the Lt, she knows his Weapon Of Choice, she knows that grabbing the sticks with her metal cables is a bad move.

As I said before, the cables are not whips. Lin controls them. There is no possible the Lt could have gotten them to wrap around his sticks without Lin actively wanting them to.

She was using earthbending like nobody's business on the fodder Equalists, but the second a guy it would actually be useful against shows up she switches right to using the Achilles Heel he explicitly targets. Even with using the cables there were things she could have done that didn't end in her being electrocuted. She didn't do them though. Instead she grabs his electrosticks and the Distress Ball in one fell swoop and is electro-distressed for her efforts.

Cue Big Damn Heroes for the Airbender kids.

If Lin hadn't gone down there would have been no reason for the AB Ks to show up and save her.

Larkmarn

07:00:58 AM Jul 3rd 2012
edited by Larkmarn

Now, I am going to say this, I doubt that Lin was trying to grab his sticks. He twirled them as the cables came close, presumably actively trying to get them wrapped around them. She was probably trying to grab his arms. Or body.

Doesn't change the fact she was trying to grapple him anyway. Like Eagal said, she does have control over her whips. If she had just gone in for a whip-like strike, then she could have done that. She's not accidentally wrapping metal whips around things.

Also: Rebo, you mention that he's not the only one she's fighting. Actually, he is. The mooks get nice and chivalrous for his arrival, rather than just be cannon fodder. Honestly a shame for her, really, since she was doing quite well using the mooks as weapons against the other mooks.

MrDeath

09:41:08 AM Jul 3rd 2012

Of course Lin was trying to grapple him. That's what the whips are for. And even if she's metalbending instead of just swinging them, they still have to do truck with physics, and they're not solid, rigid structures.

It's not even the first time she threw the whips at him that fight—it's the move she opens up with, and he dodges out of the way.

If you throw a punch at someone, and they deflect it, even if you have "control" of your arm, the punch is still going to be deflected. That's what happened here. She threw an attack at him, and he defended.

ccoa
moderator

11:05:25 AM Jul 3rd 2012
edited by ccoa

Okay, here's my take on it:

Lin did do something relatively stupid here, and she clearly did it because the writers needed her to be in trouble. However, the way Distress Ball is written, it's exceedingly negative and gives the impression that the character did something Too Dumb To Live and we should point and laugh at the writers for it.

It fits the spirit of the trope (characters action is contrived and sub-optimal for the situation in order to set him or her up to be rescued), but not the bile-filled trope we have written.

Eagal

11:49:11 AM Jul 3rd 2012
edited by Eagal

Tropes Are Not Bad, non? So if Distress Ball gives the impression of excessive badness then it needs to be rewritten to reflect its relative neutrality. But that don't change that Lin was playin' ball.

As to the need for the cables to obey the laws of physics, uh...no, not really. This is the part where the fact that it's fiction comes in. The writers have total control over everything that happens in the plot. They decided to have the cables wrap around the Lt's sticks even though Lin should have complete control over them. She's a master earth/metalbender. I don't think such a paltry thing as simple momentum should be beyond her power to counteract.

And because Lin's cables wrapped around the sticks, Lin got shocked, thereby putting her in Distress. And then the airbender kids came in to save her. And Ikki was riding a ball. :p

You got your doing something stupid, you got your distress, you got your being saved, you got your ball. What more do you need.

Larkmarn

08:55:59 AM Jul 5th 2012

Added. Tried to keep it neutral. Let me know what you think.

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VoiceInTheNight

topic

02:30:16 PM Jun 28th 2012
edited by VoiceInTheNight

So—apologies, because apparently I goofed. I committed the grievous error of Natter, although I wasn't aware at the time, that I was committing said crime. I went through the history of the page to see just why my edit was deleted, and noticed a reference thusly: "Send Voice in the Night (me) a PM regarding the problem of natter." So, therefore, my question is three-fold: Why was my post natter, what can I do to fix it (because I believe I was making a valid addition to the Fridge, if not, any help is appreciated), and three, where can I access said P Ms? I'm kinda new to the wiki-format of doing things...

EDIT: Okay, so I can see how my entry wasn't quite Fridge Logic—as there wasn't anything -wrong- with it in-Universe, per-se, but then, where would it go? I don't think it's Fridge Brilliance, either? For reference: I was talking about when Korra unlocks her airbending, her technique isn't standard at all, and that could either illustrate her awesomeness as an avatar or her desperation in the face of Amon de-bending Mako

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Whossname

topic

04:30:33 PM Jun 27th 2012
edited by Whossname

First time I've added a trope to a page, just checked whether it had been edited and its gone.

The trope was "Art Major Physics" because the metal benders armor would act as a faraday shield against the power gloves, but in the cartoon the gloves seem to be quite effective against the metal benders.

Just wondering why it was deleted, is there supposed to be some sort of process before a trope is added?

ccoa
moderator

04:36:37 PM Jun 27th 2012

Artistic License Physics is trivia, which means it goes on the Trivia tab. In theory, the person who removes it should have moved it there. It doesn't always happen, though.

RedwoodElf

04:45:50 PM Jul 9th 2012

If Artistic License Physics is trivia, then why isn't it listed on the trivia main page as a trivia trope? Or is it just a case of this PARTICULAR item being Trivia?

I ask, because people have been going around deleting any Artistic License reference they find, even if it is a definite in-world example, like the totally ubiquitous "Black holes gain a zillion times more gravity the instant they're formed, instead of having the same gravity as the star that collapsed to form them, just in a much smaller volume"...(An example of "even though it's wrong, it makes stories interesting, so they use it anyway")

This is clearly not Trivia, as it's not "Behind the scenes" at all. Perhaps it's time for a new catagory at the top of works like "Unrealistic Reality Tropes"

"Trivia" would be things like continuity errors, not something integral to the story.

SeptimusHeap

01:25:40 AM Jul 10th 2012

Artistic License Indexes is not Trivia. It's a not-quite-a-trope and it was rejected in the trivia crowner anyway

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ashlay

topic

12:40:09 PM Jun 27th 2012
edited by ashlay

Deus Ex Machina:

seems to me this is a pretty straight foward justified example: Korra and everyone else is saved at the last minute by the intervention of Aang, it's justified in that Korra's "hitting a low point" (not self identifying as the avatar anymore, realizing she's lost most of her bending for good, whatever you want to qualify it as) allows it, which fits in with the entire Enlightenment Superpowers the avatar is known for.

So what are other's issues with it? Is there a way it could be worded that would make it clearer to you?

Eagal

03:46:11 PM Jun 27th 2012

As I said just a few seconds ago when I removed the entry (and then readded it when I saw there was a discussion):

As I said the first time this popped up back when the finale aired: It aint a type 1, where the method to resolve the problem did not previously exist (ironically, that method in itself was originally a type 1).

It aint a type 2. Illogical placement and timing? Feh. When else would you expect a Spirit Guide to appear than when the guidee is at her lowest and in need of help?

It aint a type 3. It was obvious to anyone who bothered to pay attention that energybending would play a prominent role in undoing Noatak's handiwork.

Which makes it as type 4, AKA Not actually a Deus Ex Machina.

ccoa
moderator

04:55:10 PM Jun 27th 2012

I'm not entirely convinced of this myself, but I think there's room to make a case for this being a DEM.

Energy bending was not set up in Korra, but rather a previous series. Furthermore, no indication was given that it could be used to heal, well, anything. The only use set up for energybending is taking bending away.

Eagal

05:59:29 PM Jun 27th 2012

Aang used energybending on Yakone during the flashback. Got me on the healing part though/

ashlay

06:52:47 PM Jun 27th 2012
edited by ashlay

Tropes Are Not Bad. Regardless of how negatively that trope page is written now, a Deus Ex Machina is first and foremost a miraculous event that solves the negative consequences at the end of a story, especially if Trope Maker the ancient Greeks have anything to say about it. It does not in any way have to imply a lack of skill on the part of the writer, that's what we have Ass Pull for.

This particular example would probably fit into a type 3. They set up a Chekhovs Gun (Energy Bending), but it only shows up at the last second, and in an unexpected way (Aang can finally contact Korra directly after they established he couldn't) for an unexpected purpose (giving bending instead of sealing it).

Rebochan

07:04:38 PM Jun 27th 2012

I took it out because it is not a miraculous event. Korra is clearly invoking the Avatar state at the time, and by that point in the series, she'd clearly been growing closer and closer to her spiritual connection to Aang. The previous series established that contacting previous Avatars allows them to learn new abilities or use other ones, and this one established that the Avatar State could resist bloodbending. They were building off of something that was being foreshadowed, not dropping a magical solution out of nowhere.

ashlay

07:10:39 PM Jun 27th 2012
edited by ashlay

That would imply Korra expected to get into contact with Aang and regain her bending, which she clearly did not given the level of her emotional distress and her line to Mako "I'm not the avatar anymore".

And again, Tropes Are Not Bad. It doesn't have to be a magical solution out of nowhere for the audience (that's Ass Pull), it has to be a miraculous solution none of the characters expect. That's why we can have a Chekovs Gun that's also a Deus Ex Machina.

Rebochan

07:33:02 PM Jun 27th 2012

Just because Korra herself did not expect Aang to appear does not mean the viewer did not have a reasonable expectation for him to considering the foreshadowing the series provided. Couple that with the previous series and it's approach to the spirit world, the Avatar state, and how deceased Avatars affect living Avatars.

Tropes Are Not Bad does not change whether a trope is valid or not, and even you yourself pointed out the trope is presented negatively. It's also on the Bad Writing index, so I'd point out that Tropes Are Not Good as well.

ashlay

07:41:22 PM Jun 27th 2012
edited by ashlay

The particular Tropes Are Not Good guideline you're thinking of is "tropes can be written badly", not "using trope (A) makes you a bad writer".

There's a reason the Bad Writing Index says "often indicative of plain bad writing" instead of "always indicative of plain bad writing".

ccoa
moderator

09:09:01 AM Jun 28th 2012

I don't think Aang showing up is the DEM, I think that energybending being able to solve her problem is. It isn't the Avatar state that cures her, it's Aang using energybending on her.

The only use set up previously for energybending is to take bending away - we never got any indication what other uses it might have. Thus, being able to cure whatever it was Amon did to people with bloodbending did seem to come out of nowhere.

Rebochan

01:40:27 PM Jun 28th 2012
edited by Rebochan

Is Korra using Energybending? Was that confirmed anywhere? Otherwise, she is using the Avatar state, which the show previously established through flashback can resist or negate bloodbending, to undo bloodbending.

Actually, even if she IS energybending, the flashback showed Aang was able to easily resist bloodbending when channeling the Avatar state. Amon's debending is bloodbending, so why can't Korra tap into Avatar powers to do that?

VoiceInTheNight

07:45:30 AM Jun 29th 2012

Not to sound pedantic, but is this even energybending? The only -confirmed- two uses we've had of energybending in -both- series have been by Avatar Aang, and in each time they had a certain look to them. Aang grips his target's forhead and chest, and uses his spirit to bend the target's spirit back into line—and in Yakone and Ozai's case, back into line = no more omnicidal bending for you. However, in both Amon/Noatak's case and in Aang restoring Korra's bending's case, all that is done is a thumb is pressed into the forehead. That's the only thing that's consistent.

Aang grips Korra's shoulder, but that looks more like a reassuring gesture rather than an actual chi/chakra heal, and Amon sometimes will grab the back of the target's throat, but even that's not 100%...could we say that Aang learned bloodbending in the interim? Occam's Razor makes sense to me here...Aang learned bloodbending after Yakone went nuts, taught it to Korra, and Korra used it to heal Lin.

ashlay

09:30:35 AM Jun 29th 2012
edited by ashlay

Tenzin says Aang and Korra use Energy Bending. Tarrlok says Amon was Blood Bending. We will operate under what the show established until such time as it establishes something else. If you want to suggest alternate theories, use the WMG page.

VoiceInTheNight

09:56:13 AM Jun 29th 2012

Erm...somehow, I must have missed that comment. If Tenzin says it's Energybending, that's as close to Wo G we're going to get...so then my above comment can be disregarded. My bad...sorry.

Rebochan

02:29:30 PM Jun 29th 2012

It still isn't a Deus Ex Machina due to the reasons I provided.

ccoa
moderator

02:33:06 PM Jun 29th 2012

If it is energybending, then how are those reasons still valid?

Rebochan

03:07:40 PM Jun 29th 2012
edited by Rebochan

Every time we've seen energybending required the Avatar state, which we already saw could ignore the effects of Bloodbending. Korra's clearly still invoking it when she gets re-bended (tee hee).

For that matter, a really good bloodbender could blow off bloodbending, as seen via Amon - which also jives, by the way, with why Katara couldn't undo it as it was already established that Amon was an insanely powerful bloodbender. So it's not like a blood-de-bending is impossible to remove.

All of these clues were dropped ahead of time. On top of that, before Aang could control the Avatar state or easily contact other spirits, he was more capable of doing so when at emotional extremes. I don't buy that Korra was suicidal, but she was definitely emotionally overwhelmed at the time when the contact was made.

To sum up, not a Deus Ex Machina when its using plenty of previously established elements to get there.

Also, I'm not actually able to rewatch the episode right now to confirm Tenzin's dialog.

As a side note, did we lose the ability to set discussion pages to "watchlist"? I keep having to check these manually unless I'm missing something.

ashlay

03:56:57 PM Jun 29th 2012
edited by ashlay

But your theory about the Avatar State being the same as Energy Bending is pure speculation, not something established by the show. Especially when it completely contradicts non-avatar the Lion Turtle using Energy Bending in Avatar The Last Airbender, and the Lion Turtle establishing it was a forgotten art used before the Avatar even existed.

Rebochan

05:02:22 PM Jun 29th 2012

The Lion Turtle is a spiritual being. The whole point of the Avatar state is related to the spiritual nature of the Avatar.

Every time we've seen energy bending, it's been shown in the Avatar state, so while nobody has explicitly said so, the fact it keeps getting invoked when its being used suggests its necessary - and for that matter, in the show itself, everyone expressed surprise at the concept of anyone except the Avatar being capable of it, so even if humans could do it once, they don't seem capable of it now.

I keep bringing it up because to be a Deus Ex Machina, it has to happen for no reason or without reasonable setup (i.e. a quick Chekhovs Gun vs. actual foreshadowing). In this example, we've got plenty of visible examples of the principles of bloodbending being undone in the face of the Avatar State/Energy bending, so it's not a Deus Ex Machina when the plot builds off of this to end the series with the de-bending and the contacting of Aang.

ashlay

09:13:46 AM Jun 30th 2012
edited by ashlay

Look, this is besides the point. Let's assume what you say is true: Korra had visions showing she could regain her bending through being the Avatar. Let's even assume Amon taking your bending is a form of ongoing blood bending instead of an injury caused by blood bending. Not sure how Amon keeps blood bending after he's dead, but who cares?

Why have Korra say "I'm not the Avatar anymore" then? Why have her massively depressed? Why have a scene where the greatest healer in the world says her powers are lost forever? Why not have Tenzin tell her to meditate to contact Aang again?

Once again, Tropes Are Tools. This Deus Ex Machina isn't a mistake, it's an actively set up one for Rule Of Drama purposes. Regardless of what anyone assumes from earlier sections, that doesn't change the fact the script is designed to make all that seem meaningless in the scenes directly preceding Aang's appearance. It's entirely made to be a seemingly unsolvable problem suddenly solved by an unexpected intervention.

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Elle

topic

11:23:43 PM Jun 25th 2012

Ok, the "Korra was momentarily contemplating suicide" theory. I buy it, and I can see the imagery in the show implying it, but unless we get Word Of God confirmation, it remains a theory (made popular by an A.V. Club reviewer nonetheless). What trope(s) are in play, and is it YMMV or not?

JBK405

06:32:26 AM Jun 26th 2012
edited by JBK405

Unless there's something explicit (Like her actually leaning over the edge or turning back and whispering "goodbye" to the village or something like that) it's just a theory and shouldn't be referenced on this page. Many people, even depressed people, and even depressed people in the Avatar universe, stand near large drops without contemplating suicide. Sometimes they like the view (It's good for thinking), sometimes they like the isolation, sometimes it's just a coincidence that they're right there. I'm not saying she absolutely wasn't contemplating suicide, just that there was nothing saying she was apart from "She's sad near a big drop".

DrPsyche

10:42:38 PM Jun 26th 2012

When I saw the scene I thought that she was being reflective, and going off to be alone (Wasn't she on that same cliff looking out in the first episode?). It wasn't till It was suggested on this site that the idea crossed my mind. I would wait for a Word Of God for this.

Larkmarn

07:41:45 AM Jun 27th 2012

While I personally think it's ridiculously likely that she was contemplating suicide, I do agree that without Word Of God it's just a theory.

Reeeeeeally not sure if they could possibly get a more direct away past the censors, though. That's pretty damn dark stuff right there.

MadCat221

07:29:32 AM Jun 28th 2012

Korra was trying to make Mako go back and "get on with his life". After Mako confesses he loves her, she seems torn by... something. The most plausible explanation for me over that scene with Mako made her realize her suicide would now have the complication of crushing Mako.

IMO, it was just like the Tarrlok/Noatok boat explosion: It was as explicit as could be shown in a Y7 show.

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WhiteCrane

topic

07:09:42 AM Jun 25th 2012
edited by WhiteCrane

I'm not sure what the right trope for this is, or if it's just my opinion that doesn't warrant a mention, but I can't help but feel that Tenzin and his family's capture in episode 12 is a bit of an Ass Pull and Diabolus Ex Machina. Firstly they are shown getting away in episode 10 thanks to Lin Beifong's Heroic Sacrifice (the undamaged airship turned away), but it seems the only purpose of their capture and threat of de-bending is to give Korra and Mako a reason to attack Amon and set-up a final showdown instead of retreating as they were planning on doing.

JBK405

07:16:28 AM Jun 25th 2012

It's certainly odd as all hell, especially since the opening narration in "Skeletons in the Closet" explicitly says that they escaped, but it's not a Diabolus Ex Machina since this leads to the conflict and Amon's defeat, as opposed to actually assisting him. What it does count as I'm not sure.

DrPsyche

12:32:54 PM Jun 25th 2012

How did they get captured? Did they send an Airship, or the planes? The plane could shoot the air-bison down, but they couldn't capture the benders. And of the two Airships that chased Tenzin, Lin took down one, and the other took her back to the island (and presumably rescued the guys from the first ship). Tenzin had a massive lead on any airship that could follow (Even if they could go slightly faster).

MrDeath

12:59:53 PM Jun 25th 2012

They don't have to shoot down a bison. All they have to do is present enough of a threat to make Tenzin surrender. Considering his newborn child was on Oogi, he couldn't have gotten away with the kind of acrobatic dogfighting Appa always did in the original series, and Master though he may be, Tenzin couldn't stop a bunch of planes all at once, so all it would've taken was a credible, "Stop or we'll shoot!"

DrPsyche

04:30:38 PM Jun 25th 2012
edited by DrPsyche

So they just led him back? If your explanation is to be believed, then that is plausible.

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DrPsyche

topic

09:11:27 PM Jun 24th 2012

Is The Lieutenant Dead? He was Blood-bent in an incredibly agonizing way, and then thrown away. Some people think that his organs were crushed, or his neck snapped when he hit the boards.. No body has died from the technique before (Onscreen anyway), but it is very easy to make something like that fatal. If he was dead, then I wonder why Amon didn't just drop him instead of throwing him away.. If he is dead, I feel it's kind of wasted potential, because they could use his character to showcase the disillusionment with the Equalist cause, and disbanding (or reorganization) of the organization.

Larkmarn

06:50:34 AM Jun 27th 2012
edited by Larkmarn

Logically, he must be. He was a huge threat to Amon since he knew his secret. Amon would have to kill him to keep him quiet. Unlike the Avatar, who is "discredited" by Amon's followers, the Lieutenant's word would carry a lot of clout. It would be very foolish and not befitting Amon's ruthless nature to leave a loose end like that.

The only excuse I can think of is maybe he left him alive so he could kill him later, in a manner he could blame the Avatar for, thus turning him into a martyr.

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isoycrazy

topic

06:32:04 PM Jun 23rd 2012
edited by isoycrazy

Okay, I must question who here believes Amon knew Tarlok was going to blow them up? I for one don't. He believed he was on his way to starting a new life with his only family left and was crying because of that. Amondid not see he and his brother had crossed the Moral Event Horizon and could only find peace in their next incarnations.

So I think it is wrong to have Amon in Face Death With Dignity as that implies he knew it was coming.

DonnyKD

02:46:59 AM Jun 24th 2012

I do think that he did, because he wouldn't be shedding a tear if he thought that they were going to live in peace even when the boat exploded. Unless he was thinking of something joyful, but he doesn't have that "I'm crying tears of joy" face on either.

Here's what I think: Amon was TRYING to get Tarrlok to go live peacefully, but the latter felt to guilty for his crimes, so when he said "Yeah, it'll be just like old times, I'm pretty sure Amon knew that he was thinking of something different at that very second.

ccoa
moderator

07:58:14 AM Jun 27th 2012

It's speculation, so it doesn't belong on the page. Whether we think he knew it was coming or not isn't really relevant, since the text is unclear about it. Barring Word Of God, it belongs on WMG.

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isoycrazy

topic

03:09:19 PM Jun 19th 2012
edited by isoycrazy

I object to the removal of Cat Fight because it was an averted trope. Mr. JBK 405, you cited the reason for deletion was because "averted tropes don't need to be listed." That said, there are five tropes which are cited as "Averted" (Beauty Is Never Tarnished, Medieval Stasis, Not The Fall That Kills You, Soft Glass, and Teens Are Short) and two tropes listed as "subverted" (Heroes Insurance and Underdogs Never Lose). By your reasoning all seven ought to be removed.

But it was my understanding any version of the trope, whether enforced full on, played with, averted, subverted, or any other form I have yet to think of, was fair game to be added. So, besides the above reason you cited, why is Cat Fight not eligible for this page?

MrDeath

03:43:07 PM Jun 19th 2012

Aversions are noted if the trope is expected to happen so much that the mere absence of it is notable in and of itself—as is the case in the tropes you listed, for a kids' cartoon.

Tell me, did you really expect there to be a fight between them that's "invoked for Perverse Sexual Lust purposes more than anything else"? In a Nickelodeon cartoon? So much that the absence of it struck you as entirely out of place and noteworthy?

The trope is more than just "two girls fighting," and an Aversion, to be notable enough to list, is more than just "it doesn't happen."

isoycrazy

04:13:31 PM Jun 19th 2012

I see. Given that bit of information, I accept its deletion as correct. It just felt the one provided was short on the matter. Thank you for the clarification.

loveandsausages

08:11:10 PM Jun 23rd 2012

It struck me as noteworthy. Anytime a cat fight is averted is noteworthy because of how prevalent the trope is as well as the general belief that any fight between two women will become a cat fight. They go hand in hand. Even I considered it in the back of my mind against better judgement. So I think it should be listed.

MrDeath

09:44:19 AM Jun 24th 2012

I think you're really, seriously overstating the prevalence of cat fights.

lu127
moderator

09:59:52 AM Jun 24th 2012

Cat Fight is not an Omnipresent Trope. Those are the only tropes where aversions are encouraged.

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MrDeath

topic

07:03:13 PM Jun 18th 2012

Very tempted to add Vocal Dissonance for the new General Iroh. He looks 30, sounds like a teenager. I'm all for bringing back the old voices, but seriously. He sounds like he's barely old enough to shave.

Larkmarn

05:08:47 AM Jun 19th 2012

Why don't we let him make a real appearance; it's possible that the VA played up his "Zuko-ness" for the first appearance.

loveandsausages

08:15:56 PM Jun 23rd 2012

I think it applies. Maybe YMMV.

tatiana

09:32:53 PM Jun 25th 2012

Believe or not Dante Basco's regular voice sounds like that.

Werebazs

03:21:24 PM Jul 13th 2012

Iroh II doesn't sound like a teenager, it's just we're so used to hearing Dante Basco's voice coming from the mouthes of teenagers, that it's strange to hear it from an adult's.

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kenman884

topic

12:50:23 PM Jun 18th 2012

The Worf Effect on The Lieutenant.

This has been edit warred a couple times, so to the discussion we go!

Thoughts?

Larkmarn

01:36:50 PM Jun 18th 2012

At first I was in favor of him counting as the Worf Effect as he was still pretty menacing up until about "The Aftermath"... then he... wasn't. He already didn't exactly have a stellar win-lose record then, but was at least portrayed as menacing. After Asami takes him down, him going down has become something of a running joke in the show.

Maybe say something along the lines about how he was initially portrayed as a genuine threat, but... stopped. I suppose Badass Decay is a better fit.

MadCat221

03:36:12 PM Jun 19th 2012

Should it be pulled from the character trope list too?

kenman884

01:04:05 PM Jun 22nd 2012

The portrayal of it as a running gag I think makes the difference. Badass Decay, perhaps with some Number Two For Brains mixed it, is the general consensus?

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Eagal

topic

07:11:25 PM Jun 17th 2012

May I ask why Idiot Ball was removed? No real explanation was given...I suppose it might count as a character trope since it's largely focused on Lin...

JBK405

09:09:54 PM Jun 17th 2012

Because the trope isn't "is defeated" and is not to be used to point out character errors. Using what weapons they have, which they are experienced and trained with, and which they think they can use to win, is a reasonable and logical decision. Even if they're wrong, they're not driving the plot with bad decisions.

Larkmarn

07:17:05 AM Jun 18th 2012

... wrapping your metal cables around the enemy's electrified weapons, when she should know full well what will happen. She's also a master earthbender, opting to use metalbending at that point is a terrible, terrible idea.

I'll give you the metalbenders against the mechatanks the first time around since it was the first time they came up against anything like that, but Lin was pretty stupid in "Turning the Tides."

Larkmarn

07:18:38 AM Jun 18th 2012

But, I agree, it's not driving the plot so in the strictest sense, it's technically not Idiot Ball. That's not a prerequisite for Distress Ball, however, which this is definitely an example of.

JBK405

07:52:03 AM Jun 18th 2012

It's her primary weapon, which she is trained and experienced with, and she didn't know that she'd be up against the Lieutenant (Not every Equalist uses electric weapons). What was she supposed to do, get rid of the equipment that she is best suited to use on the chance that she encounters some specific enemies, and then when that enemy arrives to take the time to take off her metal equipment?

She used what she had and was defeated in a way that made sense within the context of the show. That's what matters when it comes to defining tropes such as these; does it fit the character within the show. Lin acted exactly as Lin acts, so she wasn't handed the Distress Ball, she was just defeated. Distress Ball would be if she somehow changed herself to make it more easy to capture her.

Larkmarn

08:32:56 AM Jun 18th 2012

She doesn't have to take off the metal equipment, but just attack in... any way other than how she did. Yes, it's her primary weapon, but she is a master earthbender. Throw a rock, make a wall, or even strike with your whips, do anything but try to grapple with your conductive whips. That fact that Lin chose to do pretty much the worst thing in that situation is out of character; she's smarter than that.

Basically, she went with When All You Have Is A Hammer, disregarding the other tools in her disposal. Moreover, she used said hammer in the worst way possible.

And from a meta-perspective, the reason behind her choice wasn't because it made sense, it was because the writers needed a reason for her to need saving. They wanted to show off the airbending kids, but had to get Lin out of the way first.

kenman884

12:58:46 PM Jun 18th 2012

If Lin had no idea that there was a chance of that happening, it wouldn't fit.

BUT

She knew The Lieutenant used electricity, she knew many equalist mooks used electricity, and that particular strategy has been used before. This may be a case of Damn You Muscle Memory, but she really should have learned not to attempt to grapple with the equalists in that manner.

Really Lin had to make a few very poor choices to be taken in the way she was. I vote Idiot/Distress Ball.

JBK405

06:59:45 PM Jun 19th 2012

I still disagree, but you have pointed out that (Whether I agree with the reasoning or not) she does something, gets defeated and needs to be rescued, which is the trope.

Rebochan

12:54:46 AM May 13th 2013

Okay, I hate to bring this back up so much later, but it looks Idiot Ball has a completely different definition that what this discussion was based on. Maybe it got reworked, I dunno, but here is this trope's definition:

"A moment where a character's stupidity fuels an episode, or a small plot line. If multiple characters have the Idiot Ball it becomes an Idiot Plot. Temporary (or permanent) Genre Blindness is often a cause of this trope. "

Making a single mistake in a long combat where the character would reasonably make a mistake from simple exhaustion is not being an idiot to drive the plot. Otherwise, ''any single instance of a character making a mistake is an Idiot Ball."

End of story. I'm going to pull this again if someone can't provide evidence of this being a serious plot driven moment of pure, out of character stupidity.

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Larkmarn

topic

06:43:32 AM Jun 15th 2012

Is the Council made entirely of Benders? It's made up of representatives of each nation, but has there been any confirmation that they're all benders? We know Tenzin and Tarlokk obviously were, but episode 9 confirmed that Sokka, a non-bender, was on the council.

Several tropes make mention of this "fact" but I haven't seen anything to confirm it.

aozoi10

07:13:21 AM Jun 17th 2012

If you notice one of Korra's flashbacks, Sokka is a member.

JBK405

06:34:57 PM Jun 17th 2012

The current Council are all benders, they have referred to themselves as "us benders." That doesn't mean it's a law that they have to be benders, like aozoi pointed out Sokka was a member in the past, but just because it's not a rule doesn't mean it doesn't happen anyway.

coolman229

05:22:57 PM Jun 27th 2012

Not to mention that there was an Air Acolyte council member in the flashback. He definitely couldn't have been a bender.

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Dcoetzee

topic

08:48:03 PM Jun 14th 2012

I'm skeptical of the Spiritual Antithesis entry, because this is actually an official Sequel Series, not a "spiritual" sequel. However I'm reluctant to remove it because I'd like to preserve the observations under it somehow.

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JBK405

topic

10:13:11 AM Jun 14th 2012
edited by JBK405

In order to head off an Edit War:

The Avatar and related powers are not Wrong Context Magic, because a key part of the 'rules' of Avatar is that the Avatar can do these things.

For example, the rule is not "Nobody can bend more than one element," it's "Nobody, except the Avatar, can bend more than one element." That's part of the rules, part of the context, and so are all the extra Avatar bits. The Avatar isn't breaking previously-established rules of the universe, and isn't doing something that was previously thought impossible, she's working within the established and agreed upon law of magic in this world (Magic A Is Magic A).

Amon probably is breaking the rules of the Avatar verse, but probably isn't is. We don't know how he's doing what he's doing; maybe he's not Energybending at all, but is using some sort of technology. Please note that I'm not saying Amon is using some sort of technology here, I'm only saying that we don't know. To assume that he's breaking the laws of magic in the universe when we don't have all the facts is jumping the gun.

DragonRanger

07:45:30 PM Jun 18th 2012

Sorry, didn't see this earlier because I almost never check discussion pages.

My understanding of the trope is that it refers to exceptions to the usual rules. Even if the exception (in this case, the Avatar) is widely acknowledged and recognized and/or has rules of its own, it's still an exception. I would say the same of energybending, simply because its rules are so different from elementbending. If it was widely practiced as just another bending art, that would be another story, but since only one or two people can do it (Aang, and we're assuming Amon), it qualifies as being outside the usual context.

As for Amon, he has been continually portrayed as not following the rules at all. At this point, if it does turn out he's been following bending rules, it would qualify as a subversion of the trope rather than not worthy of mention.

JBK405

07:40:39 AM Jun 27th 2012

Dragon, I think at this point we're talking past one another, since we disagree fundamentally on what the trope itself means. I'm going to go post on Ask the Tropers for a new perspective, since right now we're just going back and forth.

ccoa
moderator

07:54:13 AM Jun 27th 2012

The way I'm reading Wrong Context Magic is that it has to be a violation of Magic A Is Magic A, which is fundamentally about internal consistency. The rule of the Avatarverse is "you can only bend one element, unless you are the Avatar, and then you can bend exactly four." This is established in the opening narration in both series.

It's a borderline issue, however, since the Avatar is the exception to the rule. But since it's an exception that is set up strongly, in advance, I'd tentatively say it doesn't qualify because the exception was worked into the rule from the beginning, and thus doesn't violate consistency.

DragonRanger

09:54:18 AM Jun 27th 2012
edited by DragonRanger

I agree. I've thought about it, and there's a disconnect between the spirit of the trope; a violation of internal consistency, as ccoa put it; and it's letter, which is what I've been trying to use up till now. The trope itself probably needs clarification.

Sorry if I caused any trouble.

JBK405

10:45:12 AM Jun 27th 2012

No trouble, a lot of tropes are vague and hard to understand, and I've been on the wrong end more than once. I'm glad we got it straightened out.

ccoa
moderator

11:39:20 AM Jun 27th 2012

No trouble, thank you very much for discussing it rather than edit warring. You have no idea how refreshingly rare that is! Take a Made Of Win trophy.

DragonRanger

01:09:34 PM Jun 27th 2012

Thanks. This isn't my first vague trope either; I've been trying to straighten out Kid Appeal Character off and on for a while now. But I digress.

But there is another thing about this that I'm not sure about. I don't think I'd count Amon's abilities - his true, waterbending-based ones, as an example. The way it's portrayed is that it follows all the known principles of waterbending - and maybe some unknown ones - it just takes more power and control than most benders have on their own. Other benders would be capable of it if they knew what they were doing and had their power increased like they do when the moon is full. And since he did claim to have supernatural powers outside of the context of bending, that would make his use of waterbending - abnormally powerful waterbending, but waterbending nonetheless - a subversion.

(Spoilered in case anyone hasn't seen the finale yet.)

JBK405

02:10:34 PM Jun 27th 2012

I would count his abilities as an example since nobody has ever even thought of using waterbending to take away someone's bending. They didn't even know such a thing was possible, and still don't now exactly how he does it. There's no defense against it and nobody else can do it. In the context of "using bending to move stuff" he's moved on to "using bending to take away somebody else's bending." That's way outside what the rules say bending can do.

DragonRanger

07:27:24 PM Jun 27th 2012

I tend to think of it like metalbending and bloodbending. The potential was always there, it's just that nobody knew how and they were thought impossible until Toph and Hama discovered them. There is the matter of a bender's personal power, but Hama demonstrated that there are ways to augment that.

The bottom line is that I think there's a difference between breaking rules, and following rules that nobody else knows about yet. Toph and Hama's discoveries can be explained in-context, and it feels like the same can be said for Amon's abilities - given what we know about bending being affected by the flow of chi, I can totally buy that restricting bloodflow in some form can cause damage that disrupts that flow.

At the very least, only bending-blocking would be wrong context, I think. The rest is very clearly within the bounds of normal waterbending. Even resisting bloodbending with little visible action. (Hey, if King Bumi could earthbend with just his face...)

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Butterfinger

topic

04:50:50 AM Jun 13th 2012

Okay, I fail to see how this isn't invoked in the series:

Angst What Angst: Averted. Korra tries to invoke this after seeing that Amon can take peoples bending away. But after she encounters him face-to-face, she admits to Tenzin that she has never been more afraid of anything in her life.

From the trope page: The polar opposite of Wangst, this is when a character has every right to be depressed or Ax Crazy, but isn't, and life goes on.

Another excerpt: In a variant, some stories rarely have the characters angst out loud, but make it clear that they're cracking on the inside and are just putting on a brave face.

What an invoked trope is: The writer invokes a narrative trope by having a character consciously set it up.

Korra consciously tries to set herself up as unfeeling about Amon, knowing full well that the opposite is true. She knows that she's scared, but doesn't want to show it, so she invokes this trope to avoid having to avoid her own fears and having others know how she's feeling. This instance of the trope is not YMMV because it's not the audience that is questioning why Korra is not being impacted by the situation. There's an entire episode dealing with this trope in relation to Korra.

JBK405

06:34:39 AM Jun 13th 2012
edited by JBK405

You're misunderstanding what 'invoked' means. it's not "Person tries to do the trope," it's "Person tries to cause trope to happen."

For example: An invoked Damsel In Distress is not somebody taking a woman captive, it's somebody putting a woman in an easily-captured situation with the plan of having somebody capture her. He's not doing the trope, he's trying to cause the trope. See the distinction?

Invoking Angst What Angst would be somebody causing somebody else pain with the plan of them not feeling bad afterwards. Invoking is setting up the trope, not just trying to do it.

Butterfinger

12:49:43 PM Jun 13th 2012

Looking it over, what you said does make sense. Perhaps the term I was looking for is simply in-universe. This instance of the trope does not deal with audience reaction, but rather Korra's reaction as a character to a situation, and an entire episode is spent on the idea that Korra is purposely hiding her emotions.

JBK405

12:59:17 PM Jun 13th 2012

I get what you're going for, but I don't believe it would count as in-universe, either, because it doesn't happen (As in, she never didn't angst). Aversions don't need to be listed unless the trope is so universal that it's absence is noteworthy, or its lack of inclusion had some in-story relevance. As it is, she just had a normal "I'm scared and trying not to show it or accept" reaction."

Larkmarn

06:52:02 AM Jun 20th 2012

Isn't an in-universe attempt to fake Angst What Angst just a Stepford Smiler?

JBK405

06:59:27 AM Jun 20th 2012

I agree that that is the closest trope there iswould be Stepford Smiler, but I don't think that would apply here.

Is there a Brave Face trope? That right there is a red link, but there has to be a trope somewhere for "person is scared, but tries to present an unconcerned appearance" .

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crimsonstorm15

topic

07:06:19 PM Jun 12th 2012

I couldn't help but notice a pattern developing in the series. Asami's mother's death, Mako and Bolin's parents' deaths, and Amon's family's death and his scarring have all been the result of a firebender. I've been thinking: Could it be the same firebender in all three instances?

MoonyJinx

08:35:39 PM Jun 12th 2012

Don't know but we'll just have to wait and see what it's about if it ever get discussed in the series.

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Aryhil

topic

10:25:17 PM Jun 2nd 2012

I find it a bit strange that Tv Tropes is saying that Tarrlok had something to do with the Yakone incident that happened 42 years ago. Tarrlok is only 37.

Wouldn't it be better to say that bloodbending has something to do with Yakone?

aozoi10

07:14:49 AM Jun 17th 2012

Luckily, several tropers were right in this one. Tarrlok is indeed Yakone's son.

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ashlay

topic

07:14:35 PM May 27th 2012
edited by ashlay

Five Man Band: Generally seems to be another example of shoehorning. We've got a Hero and a Lancer, and we're trying to shoehorn other characters to try and fit a trope that for the time being doesn't fit.

The Hero: Yes, Korra is the hero of the show. But for it to be a five man band Korra has to be leading the other members, which so far she has not. I suspect she will, but until then she doesn't fit the Hero position in a five-man band.

The Lancer: And yes, Mako is a Lancer to Korra.

The Smart Guy: Mako may be intelligent and street-smart, but that is not the archetype. Asami is more tech-savy than him, and certainly less in touch with large portions of society. And worse, Mako does not put together plans any more often than Korra herself. Unless of course he's the one who figures out how to beat the mech tanks or other Equalist weapons in the future, but that hasn't happened yet.

The Chick: Chick has to be the stabilizing element for the entire group, Asami only serves as emotional support of Mako. Bolin has served the chick role more often than Asami so far. So she may serve this role going forward, but again, she hasn't yet.

The Big Guy: The problem with classifying Bolin as a big guy is that he's quite simply the weakest member of the team in battle so far. No matter how much of a dumb-dumb he seems at times and how much wider his frame is than the others, you can't have a big guy who isn't a powerhouse.

xVanitas

08:50:59 PM May 27th 2012
edited by xVanitas

Alright, just want to understand... We basically need to see more of the team and it's inner dynamics to fully say whether we have a proper Five Man Band, although you are saying that one thing for certain is that Mako is The Lancer to Korra. I'll have to ask a bunch of stuff to make sure I understand, if that's okay.

So, we'll just have to wait and see if Korra will lead her team (Mako, Bolin, and Asami for sure, along with Korra herself.), which may be likely, against the Equalists, but so far, while she is the Hero of the show, she's not yet the Hero of her team. Right? Once we see her team do stuff together, maybe go raid some Equalists or something, and once we see Korra take charge, then it would be fair to fully apply the Trope to her, right?

And, since Bolin is perhaps the most emotional of the team, as well as being so far the weakest (although could his strength even be compared to Asami at the moment? We did only see both of them in like, one or two fights. Both went up against the Lieutenant. Either way, Korra and Mako have proven that they are stronger, so I do see that he's the weakest when compared to the two of them. Asami has her self-defense training and she was able to defeat the Lieutenant, however, he was caught off guard and underestimated her.), so he could fit more as The Chick, only at the moment, right?

In fact, perhaps since Korra is the strongest so far, and how into fighting she is, perhaps she could count as The Hero and The Big Girl?

As for The Smart Guy... Mako's street-smarts and trickery do prove his intelligence, and from the trope page itself: "Some incarnations have The Smart Guy be less of a genius, and more of a Deadpan Snarker; a wisecracking, street-smart Trickster who has traded in strength for intelligence, and uses his guile and wits to outwit his foes. This type may well be The Lancer if roles are overlapping, or the Token Evil Teammate. "

Does that not apply to Mako? It's agreed that he is The Lancer, he might not know about the Equalist mechs and weaponry as much as Asami might, but he has also proven to use his wits and trickery, like against the Metalbending officer.

But what you're saying is, we need to see him actually formulate plans on how exactly to accomplish any goal they may need to, like raiding an Equalist base and seeking out Amon or something. His street smarts and trickery may prove he's smart, but to fully be The Smart Guy, he needs to be coming up with ALL of the plans. Is that what you're saying?

Finally, would Tenzin, Lin Beifong, Pabu and Naga not count as The Mentor, The Sixth Ranger, and the Team Pets, respectively?

Well, maybe not so sure about Beifong. We did just see her claim that she'll now go against the law, but not necessarily joining Korra's team. She may just be an independent force for that matter, but so far, we just are not sure. So she can not count as The Sixth Ranger, right?

ashlay

09:47:24 PM May 27th 2012
edited by ashlay

I know the 5 man band page says it can be four, but generally if you have to drop it to 4, you shouldn't be making any other stretches. (And that clause may actually be removed as well, as the trope's currently undergoing repair.) "Leader, dissent, brains, brawn, and heart", that's the setup.

Basically yes, we need to see more of this new 4-man team's interactions. Because let's face it: the 3-man fire ferrets weren't any combo of "Leader, dissent, brains, brawn, and heart" when acting as a team. Bolin played heart in episode 5, and that's it. Korra never led the group, Mako never came up with a plan, Bolin was never the tough one, etc. There's no way we can just assume the dynamics of this new one are going to move to "Leader, dissent, brains, brawn, and heart" yet.

Bolin might be the heart on a more regular basis, but we have to see. And If Korra is Leader/Brawn and Mako is Dissent/Brains, it's not a 5 man band. Again, a single person holding 2 roles is pushing it. Any more and it's just not that trope.

And yes, Mako may have qualities of a secondary type of brains, but that doesn't mean much when you've got Asami exhibiting the more standard qualities of the archetype. The point really is that qualities don't matter, what matters is that the character has to be the brains of the team, which Mako has not been to date.

Pabu and Naga fit Team Pet. Tenzin should not be included for now, as he's only Korra's mentor instead of the team's (though that could change).

And yes, we cannot assume Lin will even be part of that current team. and even if she was, she would not be The Sixth Ranger, as they only have 4 members. Having a standard 5 will usually just reveal the 4 man team never quite fit the trope, "fixing" the 5 man band dynamic instead of breaking it.

So one more time: Five Man Band is first and foremost a group dynamic trope. We cannot say Korra's group is a 5-man band until we've a) confirmed the makeup of the new group and b) seen their dynamic as a team working together. So Mako can be smart, but if he's not the brains of the group it's not a 5-man band. Korra may be the hero, but if she's not leading the group, it's not a 5-man band. Asami may be pretty and girly, but if she's not the heart of the group it's not a 5-man band. And Bolin may be an earth bender, but if he's not the muscle of the group it's not a 5-man band.

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tatiana

topic

03:20:28 PM May 27th 2012

Since the High Nightmare Fuel page is technically the same as Nightmare Fuel, can we have HNF icon removed please.

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Butterfinger

topic

10:24:20 AM May 18th 2012
edited by Butterfinger

Can we change the page quote? It doesn't really provide any insight into the show other than "this show has an awesome female protagonist!" (paraphrased). While true, that is not really the main point of this show. Are there any quotes that better represent some of the major themes from Korra? Preferably in-universe, but maybe something from the creators could work as well.

aquartertwo

02:09:51 AM Jun 15th 2012

I think The Lieutenant and Korra's "dialogue" in "The Revelation" deserves some merit for the page quote, It kind of sums up the events of Book 1.

Lieutenant: "You benders have to understand. There's no place for you anymore."

Korra (after knocking him out with Earthbending): "I wouldn't count us out just yet."

Either that or Tenzin's intro for the first episode.

Taevin

02:32:18 AM Jul 1st 2012

I vote for the Lieutenant and Korra's dialogue. It does a much better job of establishing Korra as a character as well as the central conflict of the show, rather than saying that this is an action series starring a female. It's also far more succinct than Tenzin's intro.

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Aiguille

topic

06:03:07 AM May 14th 2012
edited by Aiguille

Alright, regarding the deletion of this line of the culture police example.: "The Council's anti-Equalist task force, in turn, targets the Equalist's chi-blocking dojos, stamping out Muggle martial arts in the process of fighting terrorists." The example remains valid.

Yes Tarrlock and Korra are fighting terrorists. That's not in dispute. But providing an in-universe justification why Tarrlock and his task force are in the right to stamp out the cultural vectors of the (only) Muggle-developed martial artform does not invalidate the example, because Tarrlock's line of reasoning doesn't negate the fact Benders are waging a Culture War against Muggles by targeting Equalist dojos. (They're taking away the means of learning the martial art of chi-blocking, suggesting that only benders may learn an offensive martial artform, or have one as part of their culture) In-universe, even Tenzin picks up on the Culture War implication, which is why he calls out Tarrlock on Not Helping Your Case and driving a wedge between the benders and non-benders. If culture ceases to be valid when exploited to malicious ends, then Amon is in the right for wanting to eliminate the bending arts, after all.

fakeangelbr

10:23:30 AM May 30th 2012

Do we know that the dojos targeted were the only ones that existed in the city? Would it be any different if instead of martial arts, they were learning how to shoot to gun?

The moment that one group can be labeled as "terrorist", any kind of justification for their activities becomes null.

MrDeath

11:22:21 AM May 30th 2012

It's less about learning martial arts or learning to shoot a gun, and more learning a specific martial art, in secret, specifically in order to instigate and perpetuate a war against people in the city. This wasn't some public, unaffiliated dojo, this was a secret basement with Amon's face all over it, where the instructors and students were all wearing masks.

It's not teaching them, "Here's how to defend yourself," it's teaching them, "Here's how we're going to bring down the government and take over."

And no, those wouldn't be the only dojos in the city, and I doubt there's any effort to remove or prevent normal people from learning martial arts—nobody in Korra's group bats an eye at Asami mentioning she knows some martial arts, for instance.

FunstuffofDoom

10:39:08 PM Jun 5th 2012

The implication of the show wasn't that secret dojos were being taken down, it was that all dojos were being taken down, provided they taught that particular art. So if you openly practiced chi-blocking, in a public setting, with no affiliation to Amon, and no intention of ever fighting a bender, you were still just as valid a target as a member of Amon's organization.

fakeangelbr

06:12:28 PM Jun 7th 2012

Uh, no it wasn't. The only dojo they show being attacked is very clearly an equalist training ground.

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Vincenth

topic

12:45:17 PM May 12th 2012

I added an image of Amon to the Nightmare Fuel page, but it turned out kind of rough. If anyone feels like added a better quality image, go right ahead. I just thought some dark shot of Amon was needed for the page.

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player2start

topic

07:30:46 PM May 10th 2012

Two items: One, should the Fridge Brilliance and Fridge Horror entries be divided by episodes? There appear to be several episode-related ones, and we're only five episodes in.

Two, should there be a quotes page like on ATLA? There already appear to be some rather popular ones, perhaps having a page dedicated to them would be nice.

Vincenth

07:20:46 AM May 12th 2012

I second the quotes page, but it's important that memes and quotes remain separate.

MysticSongbird

09:03:14 AM May 12th 2012

I also put my vote in for a quotes page but, I'm not really sure about the fridge. I mean, how much fridge is there really? Am I just missing it?

player2start

12:44:06 PM May 12th 2012

As far as sorting the fridge entries, it's a bit of a pre-emptive organizing idea. If you look at the entries for Avatar, you'll see the list is rather long. Sorting them by episode and general and such may make navigation easier. I'm not talking about using folders, just headers really.

player2start

05:33:59 PM May 12th 2012

Alright, started the Quotes page. Needs work appearance-wise I'm sure, but at least it's there. :D

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SilverWings

topic

05:45:44 PM May 9th 2012
edited by SilverWings

KaizerNeko has announced that TLA and Korra are his favorite works of Western Animation. And apparently someone chucked a piece of cabbage at him at a con once, and someone actually did a Cabbage Merchant joke! Listen to the interview [[http://www.ustream.tv/channel/wha-chow,-it

's-like-a-kick-in-the-nuts! here!]] Watch the May 9th 2012 video!

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player2start

topic

05:58:11 PM May 6th 2012

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but this is the first wiki I've ever worked on, so please bear with me. I know basically nothing about editing or entering information, all I've done so far is make some entries in fridge brilliance and horror, but I tend to have a lot of free time on my hands, and I would like to help keep things organized and coherent. For example, I think it would be a good idea to sort the Fridge entries into episodes and general. I still need to learn a lot about how to actually do stuff, but what I mainly want to ask here is what could use help with organization or categorization? Also, what are the general guide lines for correcting other entries? For example, would it be improper to shorten WMG's that have been Jossed? (A rather ironic question, as I'm quite wordy myself)

In summary, any suggestions for organizing information? And what potential faux pas are there regarding entry editing?

ProgenyExMachina

09:13:33 PM May 6th 2012

I really wouldn't touch anyone else's entries on pages like WMG other than to fix spelling/grammar or broken formatting. Otherwise, I don't think organizing stuff a bit would be unwelcome, but you should still ask first if you're not sure.

Telcontar

02:56:23 AM May 7th 2012

Sorting stuff is generally fine, provided you say that's what you're doing. It makes things a lot easier with regards to avoiding duplicates, finding entries, and splitting pages when they get too big. Editing someone's actual entry except for what's stated above is bad form, and deleting stuff shouldn't be done unless it's a duplicate or trolling. Other than that, go for it!

player2start

08:10:00 AM May 10th 2012

Understood. Thank you so much!

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CompletelyDifferent

topic

02:34:43 PM May 5th 2012

Now that Bolin has expressed interest in Korra, in part because she is very buff and athletic, is it justified to add Hot Amazon to trope list?

troacctid

10:45:46 PM May 9th 2012

marheavenangel89

09:16:48 AM Jun 26th 2012

I think it would be justified, because HE seems to think she is one. Though I think it would more under the character page than the main one.

JBK405

09:30:31 AM Jun 26th 2012

Since this discussion was started there has been a change to the trope; Hot Amazon itself was renamed to Amazon Chaser, but the Hot Amazon link is now a redirect to Amazonian Beauty.

Korra does not fit as an Amazonian Beauty, though fit she is not bulky or of greater size than other characters, but Bolin does count as an Amazon Chaser, since of the things he lists for her positive qualities was how fit she was (Right? I think he did, but I can't recall the exact quote). Amazon Chaser should be added to his character page.

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LordKnightcon

topic

02:33:38 PM May 3rd 2012

"If fire and water are opposites, then what's the opposite of air?" "That's why it's so hard for you to get this; you're working with your natural opposite." —Katara

"Water was especially difficult for me. But, in time, I mastered it as well." —Avatar Roku (Fire nation native)

"Often the element that's the most difficult for the Avatar to master is the one most opposite to the Avatar's personality. For Aang, it was earth." —Master Tenzin

I'm sorry, but if this isn't a Retcon, then please tell me what is. Or failing that, please define Retcon in terms that causes it to not be applied to this situation. Sure, maybe Katara was being metaphorical. At best, that still makes this a revision, because it creates a circular chicken vs. egg argument: Either Aang is a doormat because of his upbringing and training as an airbender, or airbending training comes naturally and easily to Aang because he's a doormat. Logically, the former is most likely correct because it's implied that you are born being a bender, while personality traits are all learned.

MrDeath

07:26:48 AM May 4th 2012

I don't think it's a Retcon because Korra was trained differently from every other Avatar. Every other Avatar only started training in the other elements after they'd grown up and their personality had, more or less, solidified at the age of 16. Korra started being trained at the age of 4, so she wasn't raised with just a Waterbending mindset. Her personality ended up being shaped by all three of the other elements besides Air—since that was the last one she was supposed to be trained in, she probably wasn't exposed to much of its philosophy at all until she was in her teens, and her personality had started to set.

LordKnightcon

09:37:00 AM May 5th 2012

If it's not a Retcon, then it means the creators always intended the personality to be the deciding factor.

So why did Roku say the the most difficult element for him was water? Because his aggressive, driven, no-nonsense nature did not lend itself to the Waterbending discipline of flowing with the opponent, adaptability, and flexibility? That's not what Roku was like at all. He was a pretty likeable and easy-going guy. In fact, he even says to Aang that his biggest regret was being too merciful to kill Sozen when he had the chance.

Tenzin's attitude towards Korra when addressing this also indicates this is nothing special. He sounds like he's talking to a child about puberty, or about the nervousness of going on a first date. He suggests this is something that every Avatar goes through, and explicitly for this reason. This isn't what they say or even imply in the original show.

Finally, there's no good reason to assume Korra started her Avatar training at age 4. Aang, after being raised as only an Airbender, mastered all of the elements in less than a year when he was 12. Korra is now 17 which could just as easily suggest she started when she was 16, like she was supposed to, and progressed at a similar rate to Aang.

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BroDudeMan

topic

08:40:02 AM May 1st 2012
edited by BroDudeMan

The Nightmare Fuel and High Octane Nightmare Fuel pages are exactly the same. Literally, I mean, like, word for word.

Should someone delete one of them, are we eventually going to start adding distinct examples to each of the pages?

Telcontar

09:37:00 AM May 1st 2012

There are some changes happening to Nightmare Fuel. In brief, all wicks to HONF (and maybe ANF — I'm less clear on that one) are being changed to NF and pages in the HONF namespace are getting cleaned and moved to NF (so the original will be cut; in this case, that simplt hasn't happened yet). See this thread

for more information and to help with the cleanup.

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Nashk

topic

11:40:34 PM Apr 28th 2012

Can I get some help categorizing a trope for Korra? I'm a new troper here, and the editing tips didn't help (or I havn't found the right ones.) Spoilers abound for episode 4 of korra, (A voice in the night.)

Again Spoilers, read at your own risk.

Near the end of the episode, Korra experiences some abuse at the hands of her antagonist Amon in an event that is very close to rape. This event seems to break korra pretty good, and although Amon did not physically harm her (outside of knocking her out) he seems to have done some pretty good psychological damage.

Is this an example of the Mind Rape trope under the mundane aspect?

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JBK405

topic

03:53:15 PM Apr 24th 2012
edited by JBK405

In the hopes of heading off an Edit War:

The note covering the repeated appearances of some characters in the background should not be listed under the Cast Of Snowflakes trope. If it turns out that these are the same characters appearing over and over again then it's simply irrelevent to the trope, because the trope is about drawing characters to be distinguishable from one another, and has no bearing on their role in the series, number of appearances, etc. If it turns out that these aren't actually the same character, and are just the same models being used over and over again, then it actually disproves the trope, since that's the very essence of what the trope isn't.

Either way, a note mentioning that the same people appear in the background in several scenes does not belong under Cast Of Snowflakes, since either way it isn't the trope.

The note probably does belong in Freeze Frame Bonus, or Meaningful Background Event, or Ascended Extra/Chekhovs Gunman (If it turns out these background appearances ae important), but that's there, not this trope.

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isoycrazy

topic

11:54:24 AM Apr 22nd 2012

Amon isn't energybending, or using the full move. A friend on another website posted this:

troacctid

10:48:59 PM May 9th 2012

Fixed [1]

◊

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Aiguille

topic

09:27:06 PM Apr 20th 2012
edited by Aiguille

Okay Republic Citizens, there seems to be confusion as to what the main page is for. The answer is everything not character or YMMV related. There's no trope too specific. Per mod Fighteer: All tropes that a work uses are "notable" in the sense that they belong on the work's page. If a trope was ever used by the work, even if it was in Minor Scene 25 of Season 5, Episode 20, it is valid to include it. Its not

policy

or routine, to use Recap pages as dumping grounds for episode specific tropes, (they mirror

instead) and we only split pages into alphabetical subsections once a 400000+ character limit is reached Check the lower lefthand corner for the numeric value.(the smaller number immediately below it is of no consequence) Trope Overdosed is a measure of wick count, (a badge of honor for the Entry Pimp) not page size, and we are barely over 300 wicks, nowhere near a thousand. Its also not meant to be a disparagement or an indicator that examples need be removed. (That's an issue of quality, and whether a trope is being misused, not quantity)

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Kalaong

topic

03:39:59 AM Apr 15th 2012

I was bouncing Hot Amazon or even Amazonian Beauty through my head while re-watching the online episodes when I realized that Korra doesn't really fit any body type - just by shifting posture she can go from wiry elegance, to muscular power, or even late-teenaged-girl cuteness. I don't even know where I'm going with this, except maybe that the animators rock.

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newtroper

topic

08:02:15 PM Apr 13th 2012

The airbender in the intro the one right after roku is tenzin, anyone else have the same thoughts?

darkpuck

02:37:20 PM Apr 14th 2012

Nope, it's an adult Aang, with a chinstrap beard. All of the benders in the Korra intro are Avatars.

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newtroper

topic

06:28:32 AM Apr 4th 2012

Where'd all the rest of the tropes come from like the additional information about amon and his crew with just two episodes? are there new episodes or did this just come from promotional materials?

Aiguille

01:56:32 PM Apr 5th 2012

Well, there's the nickelodeon press site (from which the pilot was likely leaked before its limited korranation streaming) trailers and some advance interviews, plus the 2011 Comic Con Panel, and korranation itself. They cultivated a lot of advance buzz through various channels.

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ccoa
moderator

topic

07:35:50 AM Mar 27th 2012

To answer JBK's question about pro-bending rules, waterbenders, and headshots, Bryan posted a video of pro-bending rules

on Tumblr, and you can also see the official rules linked from this article

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CompletelyDifferent

topic

05:50:38 PM Mar 24th 2012

Is the page picture we have right now really the best choice? People can already tell the title from...well, the page title. Surely something with the main character(s), like we had before, would be better?

MayesBookworm

08:18:45 PM Mar 25th 2012

I agree. I like the one that was before it with all the characters. Why was it changed?

ccoa
moderator

08:48:09 AM Mar 27th 2012

I'd suggest going through Image Pickin' on the forums. That way, once it's changed it can't be arbitrarily changed back without going through IP again.

MayesBookworm

04:04:22 PM Mar 30th 2012

. . . I don't know how to do that

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LavanyaSix

topic

07:15:26 AM Mar 24th 2012

Time for an episode recap page?

(Note: I don't know how to start one.)

ilsemmr

10:58:24 AM Mar 24th 2012

Yeah. I definitely think we need one. I'll try to make one right now. If I can't, I'll go to the forum to ask someone how to do it.

partner555

12:42:30 AM Mar 27th 2012

Two episodes in and we already got a recap page? Just shows how popular this is among tropers.

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ztyran

topic

01:20:46 PM Mar 18th 2012

I think the intro to Korra with her quote "I'M THE AVATAR! YOU GOTTA DEAL WITH IT!" counts as a crowning moment of funny and a Take That at the audience. Who agrees?

Quadrophenia

12:41:44 PM Mar 21st 2012

Agreed.

SNES

01:37:06 PM Mar 21st 2012

If you think it's a CMoF, go right ahead and add it to the appropriate page. But I doubt the line was directed towards the audience.

ztyran

04:00:08 PM Mar 25th 2012

At the very least it was a Take That at the White Lotus who were skeptical.

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IronAnimation

topic

09:24:45 PM Mar 17th 2012

I know I know, not the right place, but I didn't know where to put this.

How about in this series we start out a well developed recap page? The original series is overbursting with tropes I suspect because of this problem, could we start a system with each episode getting a page?(we all know there will be more then enough tropes for each..) like Doctor who, MLP, and other shows get? It almost baffles me that a show this enormous on this site doesn't have that system. I Honestly don't know how this works. so, suggestions?

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MegaJ

topic

08:32:29 AM Mar 1st 2012

Hey, the official US title (as in the home market) is The Last Airbender Legend Of Korra. This needs changing.

HTorranceGriffin

09:28:14 AM Mar 1st 2012

Yes, Nickelodeon does need to adjust the US title to get rid of the nonsensical Artifact

MegaJ

11:15:32 AM Mar 2nd 2012

Not so non-sensical due to James Cameron. In any case, The Last Airbender: Legend Of Korra is the official title.

JBK405

11:25:05 AM Mar 2nd 2012

There was this discussion on the previous discussion page where it was decided that it should be moved here. if we're just going to go back and forth there should be a much more thought-out discussion.

MegaJ

09:38:58 PM Mar 2nd 2012

Can you link to the old discussion?

JBK405

07:12:31 AM Mar 3rd 2012
edited by JBK405

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=WesternAnimation.TheLastAirbenderLegendOfKorra

It's quick, but is essentially the same conversation that happened two posts up (The official name is XXX, let's change it).

MegaJ

03:26:06 PM Mar 3rd 2012

Oh okay. That link didn't really have proof of the change...we have the official website that labels it The Last Airbender: Legend of Korra. Before I move anything, yeah there should be more discussion.

SavvyAngel

11:56:40 AM Mar 14th 2012
edited by SavvyAngel

According to Bryan, it's The Legend Of Korra. He posted it on his tumblr here.

So....do we move everything over?

darkpuck

01:40:55 PM Mar 14th 2012

It is indeed officially The Legendof Korra. I second moving everything.

Wackd

12:42:23 PM Mar 15th 2012

Thirding!

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SeptimusHeap

topic

10:51:05 AM Jan 31st 2012
edited by SeptimusHeap

Re cut: This ptitle has 138 inbounds. PLEASE DONT CUT.

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SavvyAngel

topic

06:59:31 PM Jan 30th 2012
edited by SavvyAngel

Anyone want to help me move all the wicks over to Avatar The Legend Of Korra?

ccoa
moderator

09:24:14 AM Jan 31st 2012

Sure, I'll help you out.

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24.20.249.147

topic

04:03:25 PM Jan 1st 2011

So it says on the WMG page for TLOK that a Korean animator said something about Tenzin having a son. Is there any evidence for this anywhere, or not?

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75.74.152.215

topic

06:36:32 AM Aug 29th 2010

About the Hey Its That Voice section: When was it stated that Dee Bradley Baker's daughter would be voicing Korra in a flashback? Also, the description for the show says it takes 75 years after the original. Should it be changed to 70?

SalFishFin

07:18:57 PM Aug 29th 2010
edited by SalFishFin

Dee Bradley Baker Stuff

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AlmightyHamSandwich

topic

09:49:59 AM Aug 23rd 2010

Changed "And The Fandom Went Splodey" to "And The Fandom Went Squee". Splodey wasn't sitting well with me and squee is a much better description of the fanbase reaction. If everyone else is more partial to Splodey we can revert it, but Squee deserves at least a trial run.

anrwlias

03:01:19 PM Aug 27th 2010

There was a lot of irrational fan posts complaining about characters, setting, etc, in addition to the squees of glee, so I feel that splodey made sense, at the time. On the other hand, it seems that the squee has come to dominate the reaction, at this point, so I think we can go with that, for now.

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91.45.2.19

topic

07:22:38 AM Aug 22nd 2010

I agree that leaving this on the main page is more trouble than it is worth:

And it becomes even more insulting and Wallbanging when Zutarans claim Tenzin is the product of a ONE-NIGHT STAND between Aang and Katara. They absolutely refuse to believe that Katara and Aang genuinely love each other, and want Katara to get together with Zuko ultimately. Is it any wonder why Zutarans are becoming the Avatar Fanbase's 'cancer' in how they refuse to change their minds or even admit for one moment that their ship isn't a doomed relationship.

But could someone, anyone, explain why this particular One True Pairing will not die?

AlmightyHamSandwich

09:53:47 AM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by AlmightyHamSandwich

Zutara shippers are some of the most rabid shippers in fiction. Must have something to do with Zuko being a Woobie with major abandonment issues regarding his mother and Katara having abandonment issues with her father as well as being Team Mom, which I guess in their minds makes them perfect for one another. So perfect they won't let little things like Official Couple or Kataang having a son together interfere with Zutara.

At least, that's just my best stab at it.

SalFishFin

11:36:17 AM Aug 23rd 2010

They have that whole Yin/Yang thing going on. Plus, Zuko lost his mother, Katara acts like a mother...

...Yeah, I tried.

72.93.214.69

11:38:17 AM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by 72.93.214.69

Hey, people ship what they ship. Doesn't always have to be a solid reason. [/zen]

SalFishFin

12:18:45 PM Aug 23rd 2010

That philosophy only applies to crack shipping... Wait, we're talking about Zutara here. That explanation fits perfectly. Thank you, I'll be here practically every day for the rest of my life.

ProgenyExMachina

03:11:29 PM Aug 27th 2010
edited by ProgenyExMachina

-snerk-

In all seriousness, though, I don't usually bother looking for a good argument for my ships, crack or otherwise (in fact, when I do try to explain a ship, it's almost always a crack ship). Honestly, if I like two people together, I'll ship it, and screw what everyone else thinks...my philosophy is closer to "each person has their own tastes" than "my ship rules and yours sucks, go get yourself immolated". Maybe the fact that I don't feel the need to explain it to others also means I don't feel the need to explain it to myself. I just like what I like. I'm sure that's how it is for almost everyone, really, at a core level — who would bother trying to back up a shipping for which they didn't just happen to have a personal preference? Maybe those kids on the debate team...academics, y'know, but most of us aren't all...academic-y.

Aaand there goes my attempt to be concise...and not sound like I have a stick up my ass. :P

(Oh, and yes, the 72.whatever person is me...sometimes. Shared computer, y'see. That one was me though.)

ProgenyExMachina

08:07:27 PM Aug 30th 2010

To add: According to Extras, the staff originally toyed with the pairing, but most likely dismissed it long before the series started. Maybe there's a bit of leftover chemistry from the early planning stages. (I'm trying to sound completely shipping-neutral here, and so will accept that I also sound unobservant enough to not know whether or not my guesstimate has any merit.)

mythbuster

08:13:18 PM Jun 23rd 2012

And apparently it isn't enough for them to ship them in their old age. Want to obsess about Zutara? Go right ahead and ship them after Aang and Zuko's wife are dead.

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HarpieSiren

topic

11:14:30 PM Aug 3rd 2010

So, on the WMG page for this series, in every instance of someone mentioning someone from the previous show showing up someone replied "jossed, they're all dead"

Where is that info coming from?

BornIn1142

01:09:10 AM Aug 4th 2010

http://www.toonzone.net/news/articles/34609/sdcc2010--batman-under-the-red-hood-roundtables-pt-2-timm-greenwood-amp-romano

This link was in the edit history. It's mentioned at the very end.

71.191.145.214

08:58:11 AM Aug 4th 2010

Tv Tropers are as hyenas when it comes to picking apart random articles for tidbits of info on a show. We scavange what juicy scraps we can from Word of God and naw on the bones.

AlmightyHamSandwich

09:42:00 AM Aug 23rd 2010

It's from the casting director, which is as good a source as any short of the creators themselves. I don't consider all those WM Gs truly Jossed just yet, but the guesses are definitely on life support.

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Chubert

topic

11:06:16 AM Jul 28th 2010

Can we have a notice or something saying that it's not Fantastic Racism or Burn The Witch (yet)?

beeftony

10:37:09 PM Jul 30th 2010

How about the topic at the beginning of this page? People could try looking at that first.

Chubert

12:06:21 PM Aug 3rd 2010

...so it's probable that I just need to read the discussion pages more thoroughly.

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72.8.54.130

topic

05:35:37 PM Jul 26th 2010

How can Meelo possibly have acheived Scrappy statis already? We havn't even met the guy yet, much seen a defining picture of him. GET A HOLD OF YOURSELVES PEOPLE! For all we know, he's the minion with an F in evil for the antibenders, or is Korra's younger brother whom tags along despite protests. Seriously, if anybody hates him, it must the extreme Fan Dumb who are still bitter about the fall of Zutara. I demand a recount.

Korval

08:06:57 PM Jul 26th 2010

I think it has to do with oversensitivity/butthurt after Epic Fail of The Film. Anything they see that they don't like even slightly becomes the Dragons at the gate.

Malchus

01:05:14 AM Jul 27th 2010
edited by Malchus

Nope. It's just plain Fan Dumb jumping to rash conclusions. Anyone still remember people bitching about the team dynamics being ruined when it was announced there was going to be a new addition to the team before the second season of ATLA was aired? Then it was announced that the new team member would be a blind little Earthbender girl. Naturally, this prompted eye-rolling about token lolis with "attitude" and a disability superpower made just to set an example for little girls; or be Inspirationally Disabled; or just for token "girl power" value or whatever other reason.

Two seasons of Toph later, and she's now an Ensemble Darkhorse andis considered one of the best characters of the series. The pre-Season 2 complaints now utterly buried under much fan-love and gushing. Heh.

72.8.54.130

07:33:18 AM Jul 27th 2010

So, can somebody change poor Meelo's characterization before people start to get wrong idea?

beeftony

10:43:30 AM Jul 27th 2010

I've deleted the example entirely. It's simply too early to draw any conclusions, and talking about the fandom's reaction is something that people really don't need to be informed of at this point. Let's wait until the damn show airs and we see everyone in action.

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LongLiveHumour

topic

05:11:29 PM Jul 25th 2010

This needs to be done. Section: And the Fandom Rejoiced!

All together now. One, two, three, SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

72.8.54.130

11:31:23 AM Jul 26th 2010

Done, ish. It's And the Fandom Went Splodey.

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Chubert

topic

04:30:29 PM Jul 25th 2010

There are about three different edit wars going on at the same time. What the fuck, guys.

The show hasn't even started yet, and already people are potholing to "Too Dumb To Live" and ignoring the warnings of fellow editors that potholing to that stuff will attract Natter and bile. This is how a page gets locked. Let's try to avoid going down the road, shall we?

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173.79.66.114

topic

12:08:39 PM Jul 24th 2010

It says on the main wiki intro that Korra is a Mini Series. This was listed as unconfirmed by Avatar wiki, shown in the Rumor catagory. Unless somebody has proof it is a confirmed mini series, or otherwise, that 'fact' should be removed until we have more information.

beeftony

03:04:05 PM Jul 24th 2010

Done.

Riddle

10:20:08 AM Jul 26th 2010

It has been confirmed by the creators at SDCC.

beeftony

10:44:52 AM Jul 26th 2010

Link or it didn't happen.

206.53.153.243

06:48:48 AM Jul 27th 2010
edited by 206.53.153.243

It's not a miniseries, they're doing at least 12 episodes and they'll be doing more depending on the ratings http://toonzone.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3657354&postcount=324

Scifantasy

12:40:36 PM Jul 27th 2010

I think this might be enough to call it confirmed: an interview with DiMartino and Konietzko.

"As a mini-series, it's going to be really tight. While we really love the filler episodes, those are some of our favorites, this thing is just lean and mean. It's a really cool driving story."

http://www.ugo.com/tv/comic-con-2010-legend-of-korra-interview

Riddle

07:02:19 PM Jul 27th 2010

Exactly, that interview was at Comic-con, and there have also been multiple reports from attendees who all said it was confirmed by them there.

And that forum post is extremely ambiguous, first he says it's a "series", then he says not to expect more than 12.

ninjadude853

05:43:14 PM Jul 25th 2011

That number has extended to 26.

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ShayGuy

topic

01:17:53 PM Jul 22nd 2010
edited by ShayGuy

I love how it's been like two or three days after the announcement, with one picture showing the heroine from the back, one paragraph about the story in a press release, and one interview that didn't contribute very much to what we knew from the paragraph...and the page already lists twenty tropes. Plus there are now 221 deviantART results for "korra." Oh, Avatar fandom.

beeftony

02:37:31 PM Jul 22nd 2010

Is there a trope for that? If not, there should be.

Quaero

08:56:08 PM Jul 23rd 2010

Overfanatical Fandom?

Extreme Fandom Extrapolation?

Avatarness Syndrome?

SalFishFin

04:50:15 AM Jul 24th 2010

346 hits for "Korra" on Deviant Art. 6:00 last night it was 248.

173.79.66.114

12:13:19 PM Jul 24th 2010

The Avatard Syndrome

112.202.106.15

10:15:47 PM Jul 24th 2010
edited by 112.202.106.15

The thing that really has me wailing "Oh, Avatar fandom" in despair is the shipping community. Nearly every forum I've been to that's discussing this always has someone with an axe to grind about Katara and Aang getting it on and begetting Tenzin. Hell, even the main page had someone claiming (before I deleted it a stealth this troper shipper rant) that the creators were trying to drive away half the fandom by having Tenzin as Aang and Katara's son. What? The series ended with Katara and Aang as an Official Couple, and them having a son in the sequel is targetted at shippers now? Ugh.

beeftony

10:47:22 PM Jul 24th 2010

It's called Fan Dumb for a reason. Personally, I'm staying out of the official forums until this actually airs. I made the mistake of peeking at what people thought the movie was going to be like, and it completely destroyed any excitement I had. I still haven't seen it.

Iverum

12:45:16 PM Jul 25th 2010

Blah, and some unknown troper is edit warring about one side of the shipping being Too Dumb To Live. If it continues it should be reported on the forum.

beeftony

01:41:08 PM Jul 25th 2010

If it's attracting that kind of attention, maybe we should consider removing the example entirely. It doesn't seem to add much.

LadyJuse

02:14:50 PM Jul 25th 2010

Back to original topic discussion for the insano Avatar fandom, I think the Korra Effect has a nice ring to it...

Quaero

04:51:30 PM Jul 25th 2010

It deserves to be a trope. Are there any other instances of something like this happening?

RhymeBeat

04:57:20 PM Jul 25th 2010

The Pokemon fandom has a lot of fan art for a pre realeased game.

Virodhi

04:57:25 PM Jul 25th 2010
edited by Virodhi

Pretty much all the time these days, I'd say. The internet seems to have reached some sort of critical mass for it. Press release on an upcoming (insert media-thing-of-your-choice) release, however vague? Fansites, communities and whatnot EXPLODE. Speculation abounds. Trolls skip merrily through the woods. Witness the Dragon Age communities now that DA 2 has been announced. Or, hell, the Girl Genius lj community every time a new page goes up (bring earplugs, the cries of "CALLED IT!", followed by endless speculation about where the story is going, can and will blow out your eardrums).

72.8.54.130

11:29:14 AM Jul 26th 2010

I think we already did come up with a name for it, we merged two tropes to make And The Fandom Went Splodey. I think that's perfect.

DrMutton

09:57:17 PM Jul 30th 2010

How about "Fandom Hypertension"?

LadyJuse

09:24:38 PM Sep 28th 2010

Made a YKTTW for the trope.

24.20.249.147

03:38:05 PM Jan 1st 2011

That's not even half as bad as the Korra/Tenzin shippers. I mean, even when you ignore the fact that Tenzin would be dating the reincarnation of his father he must have a good thirty year age gap between himself and Korra. FanDumb indeed.

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CountSpatula

topic

12:16:45 PM Jul 22nd 2010

Hmm, now the previous series confirmed that avatars could live for centuries. So why is Aang dead at 70-ish?

Hmmm...

beeftony

02:38:08 PM Jul 22nd 2010
edited by beeftony

67 actually, since Korra appears to be about 15. I'm sure it'll be explained when it airs.

BornIn1142

02:41:36 PM Jul 22nd 2010

Bryke confirmed in an interview that Aang's lifespan was shortened by the time he spent in the iceberg.

beeftony

02:42:09 PM Jul 22nd 2010

Any chance we could get a link to that?

BornIn1142

03:10:24 PM Jul 22nd 2010

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/07/21/legend-of-korra-the-creators-of-avatar-the-last-airbender-on-the-new-spinoff/

Korval

08:03:24 PM Jul 26th 2010

Here's hoping Azula got loose and decided to take her revenge on Aang.

DrMutton

09:54:32 PM Jul 30th 2010

I'm guessing a heart attack would be more likely.

Nuxx

07:20:00 PM Jul 31st 2010

His century in the iceberg is a pretty simple way to explain Aangs death at around his late 60s, early 70s. He was technically a 170 years old (well his spirit was) so its a pretty clever way to keep some old characters alive and have a new Avatar in the picture.

anrwlias

01:14:03 PM Aug 11th 2010

Besides, I'm pretty sure that Azula would be far more interested in killing Zuko if she ever did get out.

newtroper

04:35:21 AM Apr 12th 2012

If the young looking statue of Aang has anything to do with how hhe looked during his last days, I think it would tie into what Born In 1142 said.

MrDeath

06:46:08 AM Apr 12th 2012

The statue was probably commissioned when Aang helped found the city, or based on how he looked at his prime, rather than how he looked during his last days.

Lazorfist

02:04:00 PM Apr 28th 2012
edited by Lazorfist

@beeftony: Nickelodeon's website says Aang lived to be 66. Korra is 17.

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EddieValiant,Jr.

topic

06:47:41 PM Jul 21st 2010

As a preemptive measure, I arranged the tropes into folers, as they are on the other Avatar page.

I changed "Fantastic Racism" to "Burn The Witch", because there's no actual racism going on in this scenario.

beeftony

07:38:38 PM Jul 21st 2010
edited by beeftony

That's not the point. Burn The Witch describes a scenario in which a small community, not comprehending the powers of whomever they've decided to persecute, assigns an arbitrary label to them that is in no way accurate but which allows for swift execution. Also, there tends to be actual witch-burning involved.

With Fantastic Racism, the source of the power is known and disputed on its own terms, though a few stereotypes are bound to get mixed in there. Literal racism is not required for it to be this trope; it only needs to be an allegory for it. It also indicates a more prolonged hatred within society itself, rather than just an isolated incident.

The show is still a long way away from airing, but based on the press release information, what they've described hews closer to Fantastic Racism.

96.234.4.79

08:34:14 PM Jul 21st 2010

Personally, I don't think either trope fits.

beeftony

11:18:55 PM Jul 21st 2010

Then delete it or replace it with one that you think does fit. It's a free wiki, after all.

EddieValiant,Jr.

09:45:23 AM Jul 22nd 2010

It's become Muggle Power. That's the best one we've got so far.

beeftony

02:35:33 PM Jul 22nd 2010

That actually fits a lot better. Let's just hope we're right about this when the show finally premieres.

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