Western Animation Steven Universe Discussion

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Rognik
Topic
10:25:54 PM Jan 15th 2016
Protagonist-Centered Morality: When Pearl later deceives Garnet as to her reasons for wanting to fuse, Garnet was extremely upset and it was treated like a major violation by all involved. When Lapis Lazuli deceives Jasper as to her reasons for wanting to fuse, Garnet displayed no particular objection, despite Jasper's obvious discomfort and Lapis refusing to break the fusion over Jasper's clear desire to do so. The story treats it like Lapis Lazuli is making a Heroic Sacrifice and Jasper's feelings are completely swept under the rug.

Originally, I was going to try and repair the example of this trope, but in thinking about it, I found I was having trouble. The situations are quite different, with vary different motivations that doesn't really make it a case of hypocracy.

First off, Jasper and Lapis Lazuli fusing happened at the end of Season 1, while Pearl tricking Garnet happened about midway into Season 2. The writing staff might have had a change of heart in how the situation would be interpreted and are working up to explaining it.

Second, Pearl tricked Garnet into fusing with her not once, but twice, and was trying to do so a third time. That makes it a serial offense, one that required planning and effort. That was a big part of how Garnet's trust was betrayed.

Third, Lapis was pressured into fusing with Jasper, and concedes more than agrees because Jasper held her by the wrist. Once fused, Lapis asserted dominance in her Heroic Sacrifice, taking Jasper with her and sealing her on the bottom of the sea. If Lapis did have any other alternative, she probably would've taken it.

If you still think the morality is skewed in the protagonist's favour, explain why and I'll try to help rewrite it so it is better reflected in the article.
Eagal
10:22:02 AM Jan 23rd 2016
edited by Eagal
The writers changing their minds doesn't make it not hypocrisy. Maybe they'll explain it later, maybe they won't. Doesn't matter. Pearl deceiving Garnet: Bad. Lapis deceiving Jasper: Something to joke about.

Unless they're going to reveal that Jaspers totally have the ability to Mind Control their victims and Lapis only broke out of the mind control via Heroic Willpower after they were already fused, I'm not seeing how Garnet is not a hypocrite.

And do you believe that Garnet would have been any less upset if Pearl's deception had been revealed at the time of the first rebuild? I don't see how the number of times it happened matters, because the problem is still that Pearl deceived Garnet.

No, Lapis was not pressured into fusing with Jasper. Lapis chose of her own free will to fuse with Jasper for her own reasons.

Motivation is immaterial to hypocrisy. Especially as Garnet is the hypocrite in question, not Lapis.
TheTropper
Topic
08:17:10 PM Jan 5th 2016
Should a page be made for the comics? Or just make a new folder for it?
SeptimusHeap
01:35:31 AM Jan 6th 2016
New page, if you have enough examples.
Skylite
Topic
07:28:08 PM Sep 17th 2015
edited by Skylite
After watching Nightmare Hosital and Sadie's Song back to back, it occurs to me that the two episodes have a central element in common.

Connie's mother was stifling her from being who she truly is by so tightly restricting her every move, and controlling her to the point where Connie felt she couldn't do anything she wanted without risking her mother taking it away from her.

Sadie's mother is so gung-ho that she prevents Sadie from being who she truly is by taking any activity Sadie shows curiosity or slight interest in, and pushing Sadie into it full force until Sadie either no longer finds it interesting, or gets kicked out by her mother's overbearing attitude.

Is there a trope for when two episodes have a single central element like that that ties them together?

Medictf2
07:38:10 PM Sep 17th 2015
Probably would be Curtsins Match The Window.
MidnightTerra
05:36:50 AM Sep 18th 2015
edited by MidnightTerra
What? No. Curtains Match the Window is about hair and eye color matching. Nothing to do with this.
Rognik
10:29:48 PM Jan 15th 2016
No trope springs to mind, but you might try searching for articles talking about how the A plot and B plot reflect two different sides of a similar issue. These episodes are only 11 minutes long, which is comparable to half a show. If the two episodes originally aired back-to-back, or were intended to be viewed in the same half-hour, it would certainly have a similar effect.
Erdrik
Topic
10:25:34 AM Aug 20th 2015
edited by Erdrik
Chekov's Gun: In "Monster Buddies", the main characters go to collect a 'shooting star'. When Steven asks what it does, Amethyst sarcastically responds, "You shoot it, duh". Turns out she wasn't just jokingó shooting stars are literally powerful bombs, which the Crystal Gems apparently use to destroy the Galaxy Warp once and for all.

Actually, the galaxy warp was shown to be quite intact in Friendship. Im pretty sure the scene with the Crystal Gems using the shooting star to destroy the Galaxy Warp was an alternate timeline of the Future Vision that never actually happened.

Fantastically Indifferent: Gems have been on Earth since at least the beginning of recorded human civilization (one comment by Pearl in "Political Power" implies they've been on Earth since before humans started moving away from hunting and gathering 12,000 years ago). The citizens of Beach City at least are largely indifferent to them and Ronaldo considers their activities as an explanation for all the weirdness in town as too simple and mundane.

Pearl's comment only implies she witnessed humans hunt and gather, not that she witnessed them during a time when that was all they did. This is an important distinction to make because up until as little as a few hundred years ago there was an entire continent that featured nothing but a mix of hunter gatherer tribes and cultures, and that very continent is the same one on which the Crystal Gems Temple happens to reside.
FossilsDaDaDa
Topic
07:40:57 PM Aug 16th 2015
Since when did we stop putting character tropes on the main pages? Is this something new that I haven't caught on to?
SeptimusHeap
01:57:44 AM Aug 17th 2015
When there is a character page, it's preferred for character tropes to be there.
Rognik
Topic
04:59:40 AM Jul 13th 2015
  • Does This Remind You of Anything?: Garnet's reaction on seeing Peridot's experimental fusions is depressingly similar to how The Hedonist would react the first time anyone proved the concept of rape. Seeing such a violence almost destroyed her own definition of fusion as an experience to the point of defusion.

Is this really true? I'm not sure it really applies to Garnet, and I'm not sure you could call the forced fusion of the Gem fragments rape either. The forced fusion appears to be a Frankenstein's monster level of combination, and while Garnet is a happily fused pairing (a sort of symbolic marriage), I don't think it's the same as having sex. Not to mention that there are many ways to interpret that scene and Garnet's reaction to seeing it, not just a specific inference.
emeriin
07:07:57 AM Jul 13th 2015
There are a lot of interpretations, but with Garnet's "they weren't asked permission", I can see why rape might be on people's minds.
Erdrik
10:18:55 AM Aug 20th 2015
I agree there is a bit of connotation involving rape from Garnet's perspective. (and any fusion resulting from romantic partners)

But Fusion is not the same thing as sex. If we were to associate fusion with a human analog, I think 'relationship' would be closer. A relationship can be many things, all of which can be associated with fusion. Positive examples of which can be platonic and romantic and even professional. Garnet and Rainbow Quartz are the most up front examples of romantic Fusion, but we've seen each of the others in the show as well. Opal, Sugalite, and Alexandrite are all varying mixes of platonic and professional. Tho mostly professional, as each was done for the purpose of accomplishing a mission or goal.

I think we need to look to Malachite to see what Garnet meant with "weren't asked permission". Jasper's intent here is not even remotely 'sexual' or romantic in nature. Her motivations may be revenge, and she may have changed the mission goals, but ultimately she still wants to accomplish that mission. And the Malachite fusion represents the strength to do so. It's important to note here that Jasper put a lot of effort into convincing Lapis to fuse. The motivations were wrong(an Lapis ultimately betrays her), but she still asked for permission. Even tho the fusion wasn't romantic, or even platonic.

Even in a professional context asking permission is expected.

I think THAT is the core of Garnets issue. It is just amplified because: A) fusion is romantic FOR HER, so her perspective on the lack of permission is more intense B) all the gems involved in the cluster experiments are Crystal Gems, not Homeworld Gems, which means these shards were once her friends and comrades.
Ironthread
Topic
09:28:08 AM Jun 21st 2015
I'm not really certain if Never Say "Die" really applies; nobody has actually died yet, unless you count the monsters, and even they don't technically get killed. The primary example in the page is Rose Quartz, who doesn't really die either. Lastly, as of "Sworn to the Sword," Pearl has said "die," during the song "Do it for Him/Her":
Pearl: [singing] when you live for someone, you're prepared to die.
I feel this should be deleted, but I want more input on the topic, especially because the article for Never Say "Die" is rather difficult to follow when it comes to classifying when it does and does not apply.
Zeanobia
02:04:35 PM Jul 13th 2015
Does this count as an example?
PhysicalStamina
Topic
04:49:16 AM Jun 7th 2015
"Steven Universe is an American Shoujo series."

I'm not sure I follow. Anyone care to explain how?
Rognik
05:42:01 PM Jul 13th 2015
I'm not sure if I would call it a shoujo series or not. Shoujo series feature a bunch of female characters. They tend to be more about relationships between characters, which is frequently depicted in this show. However, a series like Sailor Moon is a magical girl series, which is what this show most closely resembles. Although there is no transformation sequence, the Gems are magical beings and often have a Monster of the Week which invoke an emotional response in some way. So while I might not call it an American Shoujo, I guess you could call it an Americal Magical Girl series.
JoieDeCombat
10:39:08 AM Aug 20th 2015
edited by JoieDeCombat
I don't agree with the description of the show as either shoujo or a magical girl series. Magical girl shows are generally some form of coming-of-age story focused on a young girl or girls; while the Gems are mostly coded as feminine, they're also mostly presented as adults. The main viewpoint character and the subject of any coming-of-age plot arc in Steven Universe is Steven, a young boy.

Between the title character being male, the magical female cast being adults, and the lack of most of the usual trappings of the genre such as transformation sequences, I don't see any basis on which to call it a magical girl series other than "there are girls and they are magical," which is not what the magical girl genre actually means. (Fighting evil is not actually a required element of a magical girl show; Sailor Moon was in fact unusual at the time of its release for depicting magical girls as warriors, although the concept is now quite popular.)
TheTropper
Topic
07:26:38 AM Apr 2nd 2015
Now that "Attack The Light" is out, will it soon have it's own page?
SeptimusHeap
08:08:32 AM Apr 2nd 2015
On VideoGame.Attack The Light? If someone starts working on it, sure.
truncatedchronologis
Topic
01:53:44 PM Mar 20th 2015
I think that Idiot Ball should be added to the list of tropes, considering how the crystal Gems (esp Garnet) often don't notice very obvious solutions to problems so that Steven can be the one to save the day.
theharpyeagle
Topic
01:07:05 PM Mar 16th 2015
edited by theharpyeagle
I think "Full Disclosure" has a subverted example of Break His Heart to Save Him, but I'm not sure if it follows that or It's Not You, It's My Enemies better. Maybe both?

Also, I'm pretty sure Island Adventure has either a subversion or Not a Subversion of No Cartoon Fish, but I can't decide what it would fall under.
GigaGuess
Topic
09:09:07 PM Oct 1st 2014
Freudian Trio entry. I kinda think Garnet and Pearl should be swapped. While Garnet is pretty stoic, she's frequently shown to be not so above it all. And I mean, compare Opal and Sugilite, both fusions involving the far and away clear Id. Opal is very fragile in the fusion, underlining the stark contrast between the two, whereas Sugilite almost consumed Amethyst and Garnet, that's how strong the union between the two is. Look at the recommended gem training between the three are, as well. Pearl advocating long hours training and honing his skills, whereas Amethyst takes a feel, don't think approach. Garnet walks the middle ground between the two, saying that some will just need to come naturally, but Steven will need to hone his skills, too.
TheTropper
Topic
05:07:47 PM Sep 16th 2014
edited by 64.121.53.75
New Updated Steven Universe Poster! I recommend replacing the page image with the updated one! http://33.media.tumblr.com/ 96a37d53504acc4cf6c63de7a0ba6679/tumblr_nbosqainbp1qliqrqo1_1280.jpg (Note that I added a space after .com/)
SeptimusHeap
12:51:35 AM Sep 17th 2014
You'll have to link to the image before we can even discuss a change.
TheTropper
04:10:54 AM Sep 17th 2014
I really don't know how to do that but I will try.

[1]
SeptimusHeap
05:12:44 AM Sep 17th 2014
TheTropper
11:57:59 AM Sep 17th 2014
Thanks, so how do I upload and change the page image on a ipad?
Gatordragon24
09:41:18 PM Sep 17th 2014
No need to worry, I changed the page image for you.
Gatordragon24
Topic
12:01:36 AM Jul 17th 2014
edited by 132.170.34.245
There's this troper named Awesome Waffles who is vandalizing the Steven Universe pages by removing any example with Connie in it because apparently he doesn't like her for some reason. He even deleted her entire folder in the Character page. I reverted most of the changes but I fear he may strike again.
SeptimusHeap
12:08:19 AM Jul 17th 2014
Uh, yeah, reporting them.
Gatordragon24
12:11:21 AM Jul 17th 2014
I, uh, didn't know I could do that...
greatpikminfan
Topic
12:46:38 PM Apr 24th 2014
Under Shout-Out:

  • Speaking of Utena, Amethyst's inflated form after eating a cloud and the way she has to be carried around by Garnet like a balloon is similar to this shot of Utena and Chu-Chu.

I know nothing about Utena but this sounds like it's incredibly reaching. Unless that balloon in the image is also a transformed person. Heck, I'm suspicious about the other two "references," even that one that provides a gif comparason to a lesser extent. (I feel like I've seen the general fighting style in a lot of other works too.) Should I cut at least this or is there some way to tell that this isn't just a coincidence?

Normally I wouldn't really care but I have read about some reaching Shout-Outs before. Like Death Note as a whole being a Code Geass reference/parallel. Or something about either a city in Blaz Blue being a reference to one in Pokemon Black and White or visa-versa.
greatpikminfan
Topic
11:52:39 PM Mar 10th 2014
edited by 68.6.255.68
So the Wikia-wiki kind of added a ton of episodes to its episode list, some time around "Giant Woman." The problem is, I can't find any source of any of the ones that haven't aired yet becides "Onion Trade," and their listings of an episode with "Birthdays" in the title and one with "Lars and the Cool Kids" seemed accurate (just that they went under different, older names). And the person who added these new episodes to the wiki seemed to be an admin of it, too, so I don't think it was any vandalism or someone tossing in their fan fiction. My question is, where did this come from, and is it anything reliable enough to be mentioned at in this wiki? In case any upcoming episodes involve tropes in their premise?
Naivintage
Topic
05:42:54 PM Feb 23rd 2014
The Cat Lady:

Did anyone notice how many cat-related things appear in the show?
supernintendo128
Topic
09:56:29 PM Feb 12th 2014
In Serious Steven, when the gems land in a field of strawberries, I think of the song Strawberry Fields Forever. Should that count as a shout out?
SeptimusHeap
01:32:28 AM Feb 13th 2014
Way too speculative, in my mind.
mondenkindqueen
Topic
12:44:45 PM Feb 11th 2014
My name is mondenkindqueen and I added a part to the WMG page about the lion steven has. I was new at the time and didn't know I was supposed to come here first and got a natter alert. So what do you guys think? Should I take it down or what?
Sherlockdetective99
05:36:43 PM Feb 20th 2014
Check out the programme note for WMG and the page for natter. If your entry doesn't match those, then there's no need to take it down.
DastardlyDemolition
Topic
04:54:56 PM Nov 29th 2013
From the "Frybo" episode, should we add Body Horror, Eye Scream and Combat Tentacles? The Frybo costume get all three of those; the gross veins all over it's body, getting hit in the eye by Pearl's staff, and and the french fries grabbing and pulling people around.
tingitania
11:28:22 AM Dec 23rd 2013
Yeah, sure, go for it!
captainpat
Topic
02:29:23 PM Oct 5th 2013
  • Big Beautiful Woman: Amethyst is short and chubby, but is considered as beautiful as the other Gems.

Leaving this example here so someone can explain who considers this character attractive. If it's just the audience then it's not Big Beautiful Woman.

Gatordragon24
02:51:44 PM Oct 5th 2013
One guy in the pilot episode said that Steven lives with a bunch of hot girls. Is that enough for the example?
captainpat
04:05:49 PM Oct 5th 2013
Honestly, I would wait until the show starts and there's more cases about her beauty specifically but if that's what you put down I'm kinda ok with it.
kyun
Topic
09:00:29 AM Jul 17th 2013
The design changed! >:
DastardlyDemolition
04:52:11 PM Nov 29th 2013
I think it looks pretty good
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