Western Animation Sonic Satam Discussion

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WhatArtThee
Topic
05:27:19 PM Aug 29th 2016
Discuss this entry here instead of edit warring it:

I feel this trope doesn't belong, seems to be grasping at straws.

- The war is not hopeless, they win in the end.

- There is an immediate cure, they stop Robotnik in the end.

- No characters are roboticized during the events of the show.

- It's not After the End

- Grief and trauma are almost never felt, characters in positive mental state

MarkWilder
06:22:34 PM Aug 29th 2016
edited by MarkWilder
First off, You need FAR better reading comprehension. I said seemingly hopeless for a reason.

"There is an immediate cure, they stop Robotnik in the end."

Oh? Snively takes over immediately after Robotnik, with Naugus backing him, and the planet's population is still roboticized, and the roboticizer still has no functioning cure. Sounds all fixed!

"No characters are roboticized during the events of the show"

Yes, there were, throughout. Most explicitly in Blast To the Past, both parts 1 and 2.

"It's not After the End"

I'm trying to stay polite and not insult your intelligence, but perhaps you just missed the various deserted ruins in nearly every single episode, and the fact that 90% of the world population was roboticized?!

"Grief and trauma are almost never felt, characters in positive mental state"

So this, this, and this just didn't happen? Robotnik is the reason Tails has no family aside the Freedom Fighters. Don't even get me started on Sub Sonic, the whole episode is about a horribly mutated king seeking revenge on "Surface dwellers" for the death of his entire freaking species.
WhatArtThee
06:38:34 PM Aug 29th 2016
"Oh? Snively takes over immediately after Robotnik, with Naugus backing him, and the planet's population is still roboticized, and the roboticizer still has no functioning cure. Sounds all fixed!"

That would've happened in Season 3, but it didn't, so It doesn't count.

"Yes, there were, throughout. Most explicitly in Blast To the Past, both parts 1 and 2."

That happened BEFORE the show was set, so it doesn't count

"I'm trying to stay polite and not insult your intelligence, but perhaps you just missed the various deserted ruins in nearly every single episode, and the fact that 90% of the world population was roboticized?!"

But that's not after the END, he didn't blow up the world or anything

"So this, this, and this just didn't happen? Robotnik is the reason Tails has no family aside the Freedom Fighters. Don't even get me started on Sub Sonic, the whole episode is about a horribly mutated king seeking revenge on "Surface dwellers" for the death of his entire freaking species."

The key word here is ALMOST, those scenes took up a grand total of like, 5 minutes out of 26 episodes. and Sub-Sonic wasn't from a MAIN character, who I was referring to.
MarkWilder
06:52:55 PM Aug 29th 2016
"That would've happened in Season 3, but it didn't, so It doesn't count."

No pal, it happened in the final episode. That's why it's a cliffhanger.

"That happened BEFORE the show was set, so it doesn't count"

Guy. Freedom Fighters were roboticized in the episode. As well as thousands more innocents in the second part. It counts because it happened in the show.

"But that's not after the END, he didn't blow up the world or anything"

Did you even read the trope in question? Here, educate yourself: After the End

"Those scenes took up a grand total of like, 5 minutes out of 26 episodes. and Sub-Sonic wasn't from a MAIN character, who I was referring to."

They happened, and the main characters suffered as well as the subterranean king: he just suffered more. Any statement otherwise is a pure lie.
WhatArtThee
05:07:24 PM Aug 30th 2016
"No pal, it happened in the final episode. That's why it's a cliffhanger."

But it wasn't supposed to be the final episode, there would have been a Season 3, but it was cancelled. If not for season 3, they would've won.

" Freedom Fighters were roboticized in the episode. As well as thousands more innocents in the second part. It counts because it happened in the show."

But it only happened in a flashback.

"Did you even read the trope in question? Here, educate yourself: After the End"

I did, and that's not what it falls under.

"They happened, and the main characters suffered as well as the subterranean king: he just suffered more. Any statement otherwise is a pure lie."

They happened, but they only took up FIVE MINUTES. If there were entire episodes about their grief and trauma, that would be different.
MarkWilder
08:24:55 PM Aug 30th 2016
"But it wasn't supposed to be the final episode, there would have been a Season 3, but it was cancelled. If not for season 3, they would've won."

You know good and well that has nothing to do with anything being discussed here. There is no "magic reset button" that will fix Mobius.

"But it only happened in a flashback."

Watch the episode for christ's sake. Two Freedom Fighters are roboticized during a raid on Robotropolis.

"I did, and that's not what it falls under."

Now you are just lying. Any more of that and I will not hesitate to report you to the mods. I've had just about enough of this crap.

"They happened, but they only took up FIVE MINUTES."

Do you really think I posted everything here? I didn't. You obviously don't even have a basic idea of what this show even is.
Larkmarn
06:11:47 AM Aug 31st 2016
edited by Larkmarn
Calling this War Is Hell severely dilutes both the "war" and the "hell" part of the trope. I think you're trying too hard to push this as grimdark and it honestly makes the work look worse than it is.

Plus, a huge thing is that, while conflict isn't fun, it's clearly waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the alternative in this setting. A huge part of the trope is emphasizing the pointlessness of war. But here, the characters are clearly better off fighting than not.
MarkWilder
09:40:42 AM Sep 4th 2016
edited by MarkWilder
"Calling this War Is Hell severely dilutes both the "war" and the "hell" part of the trope."

Please explain.

"I think you're trying too hard to push this as grimdark and it honestly makes the work look worse than it is."

I don't understand how you can get much worse than planetary scale societal collapse.

"Plus, a huge thing is that, while conflict isn't fun, it's clearly waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the alternative in this setting. A huge part of the trope is emphasizing the pointlessness of war. But here, the characters are clearly better off fighting than not."

That would be Hopeless War, which is a completely different trope. The reasons they are fighting in the first place and the condition of the world they are in is also more than enough to add After the End.
TheNerfGuy
05:28:16 AM Sep 7th 2016
What matters is, it was agreed on ATT that War Is Hell and all references to it were to be removed and NOT be re-added. You do NOT get any special right to decide what goes where on the wiki, Mark Wilder.
Larkmarn
06:05:29 AM Sep 7th 2016
Please explain.

Well, "war" is a bit of a stretch because while there's definitely a conflict, it's not war in the sense that it's a formal conflict between nations. War Is Hell has very specific connotations that just aren't applicable.

And again, it's not the "war" that's the hell part, the war is actually their ticket out of "hell." It's not all sundrops and daisies, but it's not the kind of "dying in the trenches, why are we even doing this" kind of thing associated with the trope. It's not War Is Glorious by any stretch, but the characters are genuinely better off because of the "war."

Not to mention the writeup doesn't even try to sound like anything but Crapsack World.
Odd1
Topic
07:04:33 PM Jun 10th 2014
I feel like this should be moved to WesternAnimation.Sonic The Hedgehog, considering that's the show's official name. Thoughts?
SeptimusHeap
04:21:12 AM Jun 11th 2014
Aye, it should go there. You may ask for confirmation in TRS though.
Diosoth
Topic
09:26:38 AM Dec 1st 2013
How come it's considered bad to point out vast similarities in this show with Captain N and She-Ra? Are the fanboys really not willing to hear it?
Kitch
Topic
02:15:18 PM Jun 30th 2013
edited by 216.99.32.42
Ugh... This series was a victim of the end of Saturday morning cartoons. Many markets (including mine) never even aired it, opting instead for local Saturday morning news shows. I only knew about it because of the advent of the Internet, and couldn't actually watch it (this was 10 years before YouTube... God, I'm old) until USA picked it up for their Cartoon Express block.
Tomodachi
Topic
12:46:16 PM Oct 15th 2012
Wheres the Getting Crap Past the Radar? do we forget the one eye snake?
nick15
Topic
10:15:12 PM Sep 27th 2011
I don't know all my tropes yet, but I do recall one moment where Robotnik, questioning Sonic's desire to "surrender", says to himself: "Uuhhg... something is rotten in Topeka. ...whereever that is." I'm sure there is SOME trope that this line belongs under, but what? If anyone could add this line in with the appropriate trope, I would be eternally grateful. :)
Komodin
Topic
01:45:40 PM Aug 21st 2011
Alrighty, so... does anyone have a problem with my edit/cleanup? Please voice your concerns here.
Idazmi
04:41:41 PM Aug 21st 2011
Why in the hell do you insist on this shit?
Komodin
05:11:19 PM Aug 21st 2011
I'm a curator. I like keeping things tidy.
battosaijoe
10:42:19 PM Aug 21st 2011
edited by battosaijoe
@Komodin Okay, Wadsworth.

@Idazmi That's not a concern, that's an insult to people's intelligence. If you have a reason to go against the edit, then write it out.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=WesternAnimation.SonicSatam