Western Animation Invader Zim Discussion

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01:11:18 PM Jul 11th 2015
So how should the Oni Press comic series be approached? I'd be willing to help make a new page at Invader Zim, or we could ad a folder to the bottom of the page, or we could simply ad examples to his page as-is.
06:39:51 PM Jan 18th 2016
I feel it should definitely be its own, seperate page instead of just mashed with the show's tropes.
06:34:24 PM Oct 9th 2017
edited by jormis29
I suggest that that the page should Invader Zim (Oni) so that it has it own sub pages and there won't be any confusion if another publisher gets the license later
08:25:56 PM Nov 17th 2014
edited by
So here I am feeling like a huge jerk again, by repeatedly deleting stuff on the page I know to be wrong that another troper keeps insisting on adding again. Funnily enough I had already mentioned this exact issue four years ago when I was doing something similar. Oh look, it's still here on the discussion page, how humorous.

Zim doing a Heel–Face Turn: I'm sure some fansite somewhere breathlessly reports that this is the case, but as far as credible sources go, the closest I can find to a match to this rumor is an interview hosted here, where the following claim is made:

"Ultimately, my idea was to take his sights off world domination, as ZIM begins to understand that there is a beauty in human life, an understanding that sets him on his path to becoming a public legal defender. I was very inspired by Ben Affleck's powerful courtroom scenes in Daredevil, and I wanted to move people to tears like those scenes moved me. But the show was canceled before any of that, thus leaving our audience of ten unfulfilled."

...do I literally have to get into all the ways that's obviously a joke? Like the release date for the movie in question coming a full year after the show was cancelled, making it literally impossible for that to have been the plan all along? Or the fact that the movie was notoriously BAD and "moved to tears" definitely comes across as a Stealth Insult? Or the sheer absurdity of Zim not only reforming but becoming a public defender?

The only source for this rumor is an interview where Jhonen was joking around. What other evidence is there that Zim was destined to do a Heel–Face Turn? Please pony up your sources for making a claim of that magnitude. It's not exactly a minor thing to suggest the Villain Protagonist of the entire show based around Black Comedy was ultimately going to reform.
11:21:00 PM Nov 17th 2014
I especially didn't like the edit reason "This has yet to be revealed in the series." We can wait, after all.
05:50:52 AM Nov 18th 2014
Not really much of a point. The series is exceptionally over and a revival is unlikely.

07:15:30 AM Nov 18th 2014
edited by
If you think about it, by now the show has been cancelled longer than some of its fans have been alive!

I might have missed a more recent interview or panel at Invader Con or something that somehow validated this very old rumor as fact, but I can't find anything now. Even the pages Goth Girl Xenon mentioned don't seem to talk about it. They talk about how there were some plans for "Invader Dib," it's just that the exact details of what was supposed to happen in "Invader Dib" have never been spelled out, likely because they didn't get that far with the planning. Which is why it's such a magnet for fan speculation, some of which morphs into rumored "facts".
07:59:47 AM May 21st 2014
I wonder why no one wanted to do my YouTube Fandub on Invader Zim...Why?
08:31:56 AM May 21st 2014
09:22:51 PM Feb 16th 2012
edited by TacoWiz
I don't think Operation Head Pigeons deserves a mention on this article. Other than its somewhat memetic status in the fandom, we have no reason to believe that it's connected to Operation Doom or any other activity related to the show.

I also find it creepy that I'm mentioned above in something I'm not related to.
10:24:22 PM Feb 16th 2012
You're not going to get any objections from me by pulling a reference to them.

I'm sorry for creeping you out. Such was not my intention.
11:00:42 PM Apr 27th 2013
OHP has actually been mentioned by nickeloden, has played a significant role in making it known the fans want more ZIM, and is supported by most of the voice actors and even Eric Trueheart, one of the writers. OHP definitely is deserving of a mention.
03:44:17 AM Jul 23rd 2011
Just so everyone knows, GIR ISN"T SUPPOSED TO BE CUTE. See "GIR Goes Crazy and Stuff", with commentary if possible.
02:42:41 AM Sep 26th 2011
I sent the following PM to Tropers/Amagicalbadger:

You picked an excellent time to start massively screwing around on the Invader Zim pages. Usually, I monitor it constantly, but here I am on a road trip from Raleigh, NC, to Portland, OR — which is coast to coast across the states, about 2000 miles — currently in some crappy hotel in I-have-no-idea, Kansas. With insomnia. So, I'm a little slow on getting to this. Also: short on patience. I try to be polite, but I'm stressed and you've annoyed me.

You: I will not tolerate GIR being called cute. Keet implies cute.

Also you: If you think GIR is cute, you're not a real Invader ZIM fan.

A few things:

1. Are you Taco Wiz, by any chance? Just curious.

2. This "real fan" business is smug, pretentious, rude and above all ridiculous. A "real fan" likes and supports the show. Having an Alternate Character Interpretation does not make a person a "fake" fan or whatever. Nor does disliking certain aspects of a series. A "fake" fan would be, I don't know, someone who pretends to like the show because they think it makes them look cool. That would be lame.

3. If you wanted to say, people who think GIR is cute are missing the point, you would have an argument worth listening to. But gee, I guess that's not as fun as declaring yourself superior.

4. If that was, indeed, the thrust of your point outside of the — I'm going to skip the first unflattering comparison that came to mind — posturing you've been doing, well. I don't have time to go through all my saved interviews or check the DVD commentary (which is thoroughly packed away) to verify that Jhonen has indeed declared that GIR should not be considered cute. You have a cite for that? What I do know is that he has a problem with people thinking he's GOOD. You know, truly compassionate (as opposed to impulsive), empathetic, valuing of life.

5. Like it or not, he's marketed as cute. People think he's cute. Sure, love has no place within the IZ universe, but that says nothing about how people might react to it in real life. You do not get to blank things out while outrageously declaring that you cannot "tolerate" him being called cute. Who died and made you god of Tropes?

6. If you can find that Jhonen quote (see 4), you might append to such "cute" references that this is marketing/Misaimed Fandom, but you can't delete things just because you wish fans wouldn't do them, and justify it by saying they aren't real fans. That's just total bullshit.

I do not have time to thoroughly go over this page and revert obnoxious edits (road trip, seriously kinda takes up one's schedule), but anyone inclined should, I think, feel free to do so.
11:14:34 AM May 1st 2011
Are the names spelled Zim, ZIM, Gir, or GIR? IMDB lists them as ZIM and GIR, and it seems like general consensus is Zim and GIR on this page, but Gir is also common. (I always thought he was GIR since it's a derivative of the SIR acronym.) I'd like to standardize the capitalization, so what say you?
03:43:16 AM Jul 23rd 2011
It's ZIM and GIR. Yes, standardize it, if you have the effort to do so; there's a LOT to change.
08:53:31 PM Mar 5th 2013
I just standardised the capitalisation for ZIM on the main page. That took a lot of time. If anyone is willing to help me please to so. Also should we make a note on the main page about the capitalisation of ZIM and GIR so no more mistakes (hopefully) will happen?
02:57:54 PM Nov 26th 2010
I seriously want to nuke the entire Moral Dissonance entry, on the grounds that it's directed at the fandom and not really originating from the show. I mean, I don't think you're supposed to think Dib's vivisection drawings are healthy or normal, he is a pretty gray character and Jhonen's said he wanted to blur the lines between good and evil. But I wanted to ask first to see if anyone else had thoughts or objections.
05:17:21 PM Nov 26th 2010
I agree, its about the show not the fans that should be in YMMV
02:27:38 PM Oct 30th 2010
Regarding the supposed Word of God on the Dib's-a-clone theory, I think people are getting that idea from what Eric Trueheart said in the interview with the writers on the second DVD. I'm not sure if you knew that, or if really could really count as Word of God.
07:06:41 PM Oct 30th 2010
edited by Tyoria
Word of Dante? But weren't they just talking about potential canon rather than something they had definitely been planning to include? Well, since you know where it is, I'll check. Lemme get back to you.

Okay, volume 2, disk 4: the writer commentary has this bit from Eric Trueheart:
There were only some long term-plans. If the show ran for like three-four years, near the end Dib was going to go on a quest to find out why his life was so horrible, and it was slowly through that quest going to be revealed that actually Dib was a creation of Dr. Membrane as an experiment.

Alright, that's warranting an entry under Artificial Human with that caveat. But most people, in this context, are absolutely going to think "God" is Jhonen Vasquez, so calling it Word of God would be misleading.

I really dislike people throwing out Word of God if I have no indication that even they know whether its reliable or not. People simply pick up the term and parrot it. I think if you wind up with something that could be potholed as "supposedly" goes to Word of God, it shouldn't be called Word of God in the first place. Yes, I was aware that something of this nature had been said by Eric Trueheart, but the thing is... People have cited Word of God on Jhonen claiming that had the show gone on, Zim was going to reform. He absolutely has said that. The catch? In context, it's literally impossible for him to be anything but sarcastic, unless he has access to a time machine, because the supposed motive for having planned that move before the show was made was something that happened long after the cancellation! Without context or citation, Word of God is meaningless and does more harm than good. That's why I zap it. If the person was citing something and got it wrong, I'd just correct it, but that's much rarer than someone simply repeating something they heard.
09:55:09 AM Oct 31st 2010
edited by PrincessGwenevere
-puts hand on shoulder- Hey, I feel your pain, kinda. I and some other people are desperately trying to white-wash that mess called the Zim-Wikia clean of fanon and make it look presentable. It's got a bit to go, but it's better than before.

Okay, thanks. I just wanted to run that by you.
11:11:21 AM Oct 31st 2010
You ARE? You're AWESOME. I took one look at that place and ran screaming.
09:02:37 AM Jun 29th 2010
edited by Tyoria
Okay but seriously —

  • Old Shame: All of the show's fans would love to see the show come back. The only thing is, Jhonen Vasquez is sick and tired of the show and its rabid fanbase, and has stated that he's pretty much done with television as he gets much more freedom in comics.

That's pretty misleading. An old shame is something you look back on and cringe at. "What was I thinking?" Not "that was an eight-year old project I do not have an interest in pursuing further". It also promotes that tired old "Jhonen hates his fans" meme. Is he sometimes annoyed by fans? yes, but he's commented on incidents he's liked. What he most often complains about is the sense of entitlement. As if he should be expected to want to pick up the show again and fight for it, because that's what the fans want, despite the fact that it's eight years old and while he might have enjoyed the finished product, the actual conditions at the studio were fairly hostile and unpleasant. But so what? Screw what he wants to do with his own creative energy, he owes it fans because that's what they want and also they maybe bought a shirt at Hot Topic (without realizing he doesn't actually get any proceeds from those merchandise sales). We spent time or money on the show, Jhonen, that means we now own your very soul! Uh, no. Jhonen Vasquez is not your (our) bitch any more than George R. R. Martin. "He doesn't like the show as much as some fans think he should" (which is to say he does not cling to unrealistic pipe dreams of it being Un-Cancelled after such a long length of time) does not mean he is now ashamed of it.

I hope that doesn't sound like an attack or anything because I'm talking about the general phenomenon, not you personally. But my point is, he doesn't speak negatively about the show in the sense of its worth as a creative project (e.g., it had poor writing, storyboarding, anything), or otherwise indicate he's ashamed of it, and he does not speak negatively about fans for being fans, or even for being rabid fans, he speaks exasperatedly of the segment of the rabid fanbase that uses that as an excuse to be childish and demanding, which is an entirely different thing. Therefore I don't think the trope applies at all.
11:03:52 PM Apr 27th 2013
He even said at a Convention VERY CLEARLY that he only is talking about CERTAIN FANS whenever he does this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABtwwUsWRkI)
01:55:38 PM Apr 24th 2010
edited by Tyoria
"reason: I think the new DV Ds, and the fact that the old ones are out of print, is worth mentioning. And, no offense, but is anyone else getting a hateful vibe from this article? 24/Apr/10 at 01:24 PM by Princess Gwenevere"

Well, we don't want any hate here, but that's a bit... vague. Care to elaborate? What passages send hateful "vibes" and to where is it directed?

Edit: Okay, on the assumption the hatefulness was coming from me (because it is of course always about me — or, more seriously, because I've been zapping stuff on this page quite a bit recently, to the point even I worry I'm getting above myself) and directed at the fan-run rumor mill, I tried to change the tone to reflect the position that this is not due to any conscious wrongdoing on the part of the fans but a simple result of the huge fanbase and the inevitable snowball effect the internet has on the spread of misinformation. Please let me know if there's anything else — this is not my page, much less my soapbox, and I don't want people to be put off from reading. I just want things to be as accurate as possible.

If not, uh, never mind.
06:30:19 PM Apr 24th 2010
Well, hateful was probably too strong a word, but this is something that's been bothering me little. In recent months, there's been some rather mean-spirited comments about the Fan Dumb in the article itself. The Fan Dumb example at one point said: "This trope is one of the biggest reasons Jhonen Vasquez hates his fandom. ...Or So I Heard. This Troper is inclined to agree with him."

I won't pretend it doesn't exist, but this isn't the place complain about it. I'm not blaming you for that, if it's not your fault, but we should really save it for somewhere else.

Plus I feel the "Don't believe anything you read" comment was a bit much. I probably sound like a hypocrite by saying we shouldn't edit the main article based on our personal feelings, but... yeah.

I'll try and be less of a lurker and help you in your quest for accuracy, but I feel perhaps we should regulate some of personal opinions on the main article.
05:37:34 AM Apr 25th 2010
edited by Tyoria
But see, the "Jhonen hates his fans" thing is an example of exactly the sort of thing I want people to not just take on faith — because it's widely-repeated fanon. I've read all of the same things as those who make claims of hatred, but I've never (well, rarely) had the impression he's actually ANGRY over anything. Sure he's made fun of the whole phenomena, but he makes fun of everything, including himself. I want to put a stop to people trying to use fanon and falsely applied Word of God to insult people.
06:44:17 AM Apr 25th 2010
Actually, I agree with you on that part. I haven't seen any indication that Jhonen hates his fans either. I'm just saying we shouldn't have people bitching about the fandom on the main article.
06:55:20 AM Apr 25th 2010
Well, yeah. I don't see those goals as incompatible at all. Do you think there are still any problems with the article as it is now, or just for future reference?
08:26:50 AM Apr 25th 2010
Just for future reference.
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