Western Animation Archer Discussion

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02:34:05 PM Sep 7th 2017
In most trope entries referencing Archer's .32, the fallacious "stopping power" argument is presented and dissected—but generally for the wrong reasons. While the statements about bore diameter not being as big an issue (especially with modern cartridge/round combinations) are correct, the .32 ACP is simply terrible from a terminal ballistic standpoint for any purpose save as a holdout.

This is not due to bore size, but a combination of the incredibly low mass, low velocity, and lack of reliable expansion present in the cartridge. In some cases, the little guys will expand too quickly (such as when fired at denim/leather) and bleed off their velocity before coming close to a vital organ.

While it's presumably feasible that Archer himself can overcome this with exceptional shot placement (see: Direct Action teams and their storied long-term use of Colt Woodsman .22LR pistols coupled with extreme marksmanship to overcome the pitiful terminal ballistics of said rimfire cartridge), the arguments presented in the tropes are factually incorrect: he's not mocked because of bore DIAMETER, but overall lack of terminal efficiency compared to figuratively every other weapon used by the agency—which is something Lana Kane and Ray Gilette would know quite well, and likely the root cause (in-universe) of their mockery.

That said, it is highly doubtful that the writers are aware of this (Showing Their Work be damned) as frequently ballistically anemic 5.56mm/7.62x39mm carbines and 9mm machine pistols are referred to as "high powered" while placed literally RIGHT NEXT TO firearms chambered in true high-power cartridges such as the .45-70 Govt.—with a terminal ballistic profile similar to a low-velocity .50 BMG (down to bullets in the same heavy 500-600 grain weight range); in the Archer Vice episode where Tunt Manor's weapon room was raided, the piddly machine pistols would come in dead last as a consideration given the ranges the Yakuza thugs were shooting from and yet Archer goes for what is likely a .357 or .45 Colt lever gun (there are very few examples of lever actions modified in that manner chambered in .30-30, let alone .45-70, and the vast majority of those are custom builds or pure prop guns).
12:36:44 PM May 12th 2017
edited by mariofan1000
Would it make sense for Dreamland to get its own trope page? Vice isn't different enough to justify it, I don't think.

Edit: Welp, I did it.
11:58:46 PM Apr 29th 2014
Does anyone know how to spell Lana's child's name?
11:11:16 AM Mar 12th 2014
Should there be unmarked spoilers on the Crowning Momemts pages for Archer Vice? I mean, the whole cocaine/cartel element is such a big part of that season, and it's the driving force behind pretty much every episode in it, or at least connected to them in someway or another, so should we let it go unmarked in lieu of actual spoilers that would really mess up the enjoyment of the viewers, like major plot twists and surprises, such as Charles and Rudy showing up again, or Lana having her baby in what looks to be the exact bar in which Malory gave birth to Archer in Tangiers, Morocco? Just a thought/suggestion is all.
05:31:49 PM Feb 26th 2014
edited by
  • Designated Villain: In-universe, Cecil Tunt - there isn't really anything evil about his plan to have Cheryl (who has been firmly established as a constant threat to herself and others) declared legally insane so he can use her inheritance as a means to fund his charity work. At worst, the other ISIS members just point out that kidnapping everyone else was totally unnecessary, and Cheryl is the only one that perceives him as a bad guy.

Well, to start with, becoming someone's financial guardian with the express intention of stealing their money is... dubious at best, no matter how noble your choice of beneficiary might be.

More to the point, characters in the show acknowledge that he's not that bad a guy and he has a point, so Designated Villain doesn't seem like the right trope. Anti-Villain, perhaps?

(Also, if the poster is reading this, please check out the Spoiler Policy page.)
01:44:59 AM Feb 25th 2014
A note on ton(ne)s

The amount of cocaine they have is a metric ton, aka a tonne, aka 1000kg. "Metric tonne" is redundant.

This is almost the same weight as a UK/Commonwealth ton, aka long ton, aka 2,240lb, and a bit larger than a U.S. ton, aka short ton, aka 2,000lb.
03:41:40 PM Jan 26th 2014
Will we ever see The Wee Baby Seamus and his mother Trinette again? I want to see more adventures, or at least notable cameos, with them.
02:38:17 PM Jan 13th 2014
The Improbably Cool Car entry has a remark about "luxury cars are rarely used as taxis" but in Germany taxis are almost exclusively Mercedes-Benz; the previous sentence implies that these would be luxury cars. Granted, we are talking about New York vs Stuttgart. Should this be changed in the entry?
01:31:10 PM May 2nd 2013
Removed this entry.

  • Undercover When Alone: In one episode, ISIS is being infiltrated by an enemy agent. At one point when he believes himself to be alone, he refers to himself by the name he's given ISIS. His last line in the episode was, in fact, him saying that it was not his real name.

It doesn't sound like any episode aired thus far, but if anyone can cite the exact episode and moment, I'll be happy to re-add it.
04:41:29 AM Jun 1st 2013
Took me forever to think of it, but I think he's referring to Conway Stern. He's the one in the first season who shouts that its not his real name (the diversity episode.)

I actually think I can recall the bit when he does it too. I say put it back in, but with an explicit reference to Conway. Possibly under spoiler tags.
09:29:17 AM Jun 1st 2013
Readded with specific mention of Conway.
10:59:20 PM Jul 4th 2013
The entry was a bit garbled.

Added a reference to the particular episode (Diversity Hire) and changed some terms to be less confusing.
11:41:17 PM Jul 4th 2013
Mentioning the episode kind of defeats the purpose of spoilering the name, doesn't it?
01:23:48 PM Apr 5th 2013
Where exactly does Cheryl noticing the musical stings in "Sea Tunt: Part I" fit? I am very unclear on the levels of Fourth Wall breakiness.
01:32:21 PM May 2nd 2013
Perhaps it's supposed to show that she's going insane.
12:15:37 AM Jan 3rd 2013
So someone has helpfully gone through and changed all the ""s around episode names to italic marks. I'm pretty sure that's wrong (italics for work names, quotes for episodes, right?), but wanted to check here before changing back all those edits.
03:51:34 AM Jan 3rd 2013
It's incorrect, yeah. I've asked for a mod revert so that you don't have to go to the fiddly trouble of undoing it yourself.
03:59:07 AM Jan 3rd 2013
Done. Someone send a PM.
06:31:01 AM Jan 3rd 2013
Thanks; sent.
08:17:10 PM Jul 25th 2012
Not sure if this would be considered a Shout Out or not... but I thought I'd mention it. The ocelot, Babou, seems like it might be a Shout Out to Bruce the ocelot from the 1965 spy/detective series Honey West. Thoughts?
01:28:34 PM May 2nd 2013
It's definitely a shout out to Salvador Dali, who had an ocelot named Babou.
01:03:22 PM Jun 20th 2012
Pulled the 'double standard rape' entries from Characters and Main since the page for that trope has been taken off
01:24:35 PM Jun 20th 2012
Stuff is pending about what's happening with those pages at the moment. The general consensus/official word (it's not really clear any more which is what and who is why) is not to do anything — deleting examples, purging wicks, editing the Double Standard Rape pages themselves, etc. — until discussions at a higher level have happened. Readding these entries at the moment is probably not worth it, though.
09:20:50 PM Apr 5th 2012
In the episode with the zeppelin, Lana does a Scooby Doo-esque cry of surprise when the real terrorist is revealed— Archer replies, "nice read, Velma."

What does that count as? Breaking the fourth wall?
09:22:16 PM Apr 5th 2012
Nevermind, I just noticed it's listed as a Shout Out, which I guess makes sense...
08:06:37 AM Mar 25th 2012
edited by johnnye
"The Wesley: Your mileage may vary, but Pam and Cheryl are constantly brought into more and more episodes and situations where they don't belong, for seemingly no other reason than to makes jokes that Archer could have made on his own. "

I was going to move this to YMMV, but it doesn't fit under Creator's Pet, and I can't find a better trope to file it under. It's not exactly Character Focus, because they're still confined to the B plot.

The Complaining tone of the entry aside, it does seem like there should be a trope for "there's no logical reason for the Plucky Comic Relief to be on this mission". Kind of related to The Main Characters Do Everything, but not quite that.

EDIT: Currently listed as Little Stowaway, although that trope is primarily about children.
02:23:01 PM Feb 19th 2012
Ok, there has to be a trope for Malory's plan to get rid of the body in "Lo Scandalo." It's not Magnificent Bastard, it's not Xanatos Gambit. I don't know what it is. Anyone have any ideas?
03:38:49 PM Feb 19th 2012
Yeah, it's tricky. Let's see... a big part of it is a variation of Beneath Suspicion and Wounded Gazelle Gambit - Mallory playing a victim to cover up her own crime. Part of it is Embarrassing Coverup - the whole S&M situation deflects attention from the suspicious circumstances. Mallory herself is a Femme Fatale with a seriously Best Served Cold motive. And the ending is a Karma Houdini.

I think the biggest aspect is Beneath Suspicion.
10:16:25 PM Jan 23rd 2012
What do you call this animation style? It's a lot more ... realistic looking and less cartoony than standard cartoon styles...
10:57:57 PM Jan 23rd 2012
Well it's obviously flash animation but you seem to be talking more about the art style.
07:43:24 PM May 24th 2011
Removed for not being an example:

  • Where the Hell Is Springfield?: In the episode El Secuestro, Mallory traces a call to Cheryl's kidnapper, who happens to be Cyril. The screen zooms in to the exact location of ISIS headquarters, and though it's done extremely fast, it looks to be situated in Manhattan.

Because to my knowledge, every single hint in the entire show's run so far places ISIS headquarters in New York: Pam's Driver's licence, the above-mentioned tracing sequence, Charles' threat of "coming to New York and flinging acid in your face" from Honey Pot, Franny Delaney's warehouse being in the Bronx, etc.
04:28:21 AM Apr 1st 2011
Fourth Wall

In Season 1 episode 7 - "Skytanic." Lana says "Captain Lanners" in a hammy way when they discover that he is the villain. Archer immediately responds, "Nice read, Velma." "Read" ambiguously refers to Lana's voice actor reading the script and "Velma" refers to the Scooby-Do character, and it seems to be Leaning on the Fourth Wall. So, if somebody with an account could maybe add that I would appreciate it.
12:28:59 AM Jul 13th 2011
How is that leaning on the forth wall? Archer takes place in the 80's, during which time Scooby Doo had aired. We can assume that it exists in that universe.
12:50:22 PM Mar 18th 2011
edited by OmegaMale
Season 2 spoilers herein:

With regards to the "The Dog Bites Back" example: Barry didn't tamper with the paternity test, did he? Archer went and switched the blood used in the test, but switched it with that of the actual father. The test just confirmed that the baby was related to the donor of the blood sample, and nobody but Archer and Malory know that he switched it.

Barry's smug satisfaction would have been just seeing Archer get comeuppance, because he was sure that the sample was Archer's. Besides, if Barry was the type of guy to lie about the test results just to screw Archer, how could we trust that Wee Baby Seamus was Cyril's kid?

This makes Archer's tampering more of a "Nice Job Breaking It, Hero."
08:39:36 PM Mar 23rd 2011
Yes, you're completely right which is why I removed it. I mean, the cutaway with Cyril in bed with Trinette at the end was a dead giveaway.
12:16:43 AM Apr 20th 2010
edited by ChadM
Chad M: Now that I've watched every episode (twice), I can delete some stuff that's pretty much made up. Btw entire season is available on Hulu as of this writing.

  • (not to mention her three-way with Archer and Lana, that ended with Archer's fist up her asshole)


  • The Archer/Lana/Pam three-way, which ended with Pam pissing on herself and Archer's fist up her ass.

So far as I can tell, this is referring to an argument during an HR mediation that ended with Archer beating Pam over the head with her dolphin puppet. The only episode that references this is Episode 1 and this is so obvious I have to wonder how someone could get the above out of it. The reason for the "so far as I can tell" is that it's so left-field that I had to watch the entire season to even realize they meant that scene. Also Episode 10 makes it clear Pam has never had sex with anyone at ISIS until that episode so I have to wonder if someone's high or trolling.

  • Of course, Lana also cheated on Cyril via a three-way she had with an arms dealer and her ex, Archer, though the implication was given that Scorpio was bi and spent most of the three way fucking Archer.

Implication from where? It's pretty much the exact opposite:

(Archer starts reaching for a grenade)
Skorpio: Where was this enthusiasm before?
Lana: I know, right? Now he wants to contribute!


Archer: Oh, I'll get a new kitchen. But let's see you get a new boyfriend after I have a long talk with Cyril!
Lana: About what? How you cried during a two-man threesome?
Archer: Wooden spoons are a big emotional trigger for me! (indicating that this, not man-sex which Archer obviously finds abhorrent given his attitude toward it in Honeypot, was the most traumatic part of the event)

The two together seem to indicate Archer didn't do much at all because of his wooden-spoon related breakdown.
08:38:20 PM Mar 23rd 2011
Removed: ** The incident regarding how Archer was responsible for Barry of ODIN suffering a crippling injury that ended his career as a field agent. All we know (from a brief clip of the incident) is that Archer purposely let Barry fall from a balcony rather than rescuing him and then, as he laid on the busted in top of the car he landed on, sarcastically asked Barry if he was ok.

When the flashback first appears in "Job Offer" it gives a lot more information than that. The obvious implication from Archer and Barry's extended conversation is that Archer didn't mistook two ODIN double agents for enemies and shot them, Barry tried to stop him and accidentally tore Archer's suit in the process, so then Archer knocked him off the balcony and let him fall several stories (even after Barry explained the situation to him) because he's a Jerk Ass like that.
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